The Roc-a-fella Dynasty vs. The Death Row era

[Hayzoos]

Maybe I'm just a g-funk/west coast hater, I don't know.

[SeanieCameras]

West Coast all the way, maybe some people consider The Roc as having more, "Classic" material(I use that term loosely) than Death Row...But, Death Row's infiltration and impact in all realms of hip hop...Producing, A&R/Record Company Managament, soap-opera drama, musicians that have reached Legendary, iconic/martyrdom status, etc. etc. They sold mad records all at the same time, cultivated new(relevant talent, eventually mind you...)invented new styles, and patterns in rapping and producing, AHHH! West Coast all the way...

[blessingindisguise]

Death row. But the roc had some bangers and classics. Just can't match up to Death row. Imagine if Dr. Dre woulda stayed there too. But Suge had to play bitch and shit.

[Magneto]

You take Jay out of Roc-A-Fella and while its still a "nice" label with Cam/Dips and Beans, it is no powerhouse.

There isnt one artist you can take out of Death Row and deminish it to that level. You can remove Dre from the equation, and Death Row still trumps most other labels.

If I take out Dre, Death Row is damn near irrelevant. If it wasn't for his beats, there would be no Death Row era.

[Magneto]

Death Row had one of the greatest dynasties in all of music, fuck just hip-hop.

Death Row should be up against Def Jam.

Don't be ridiculous now.

[Philaflava]

You take Jay out of Roc-A-Fella and while its still a "nice" label with Cam/Dips and Beans, it is no powerhouse.

There isnt one artist you can take out of Death Row and deminish it to that level. You can remove Dre from the equation, and Death Row still trumps most other labels.

If I take out Dre, Death Row is damn near irrelevant. If it wasn't for his beats, there would be no Death Row era.

Buddy you're really disrespecting the greatness of Daz. Daz is just as important to The Chronic as he was to Dogg Pound or even Doggystyle.

[Magneto]

You take Jay out of Roc-A-Fella and while its still a "nice" label with Cam/Dips and Beans, it is no powerhouse.

There isnt one artist you can take out of Death Row and deminish it to that level. You can remove Dre from the equation, and Death Row still trumps most other labels.

If I take out Dre, Death Row is damn near irrelevant. If it wasn't for his beats, there would be no Death Row era.

Buddy you're really disrespecting the greatness of Daz. Daz is just as important to The Chronic as he was to Dogg Pound or even Doggystyle.

To quote Snoop "Then how come Daz hasn't released anything worth shit without Dr.Dre"? Yet, Dre has made classic after classic without Daz and all these other co-producers who supposedly "Make the beats, really"?

Everyone claims Dre needs or had all these other dudes produce his beats and he takes credit, yet none of them individually have made any beats on their own, that would make a Dr. Dre album.

[blastmaster]

You take Jay out of Roc-A-Fella and while its still a "nice" label with Cam/Dips and Beans, it is no powerhouse.

There isnt one artist you can take out of Death Row and deminish it to that level. You can remove Dre from the equation, and Death Row still trumps most other labels.

If I take out Dre, Death Row is damn near irrelevant. If it wasn't for his beats, there would be no Death Row era.

Dre had two beats on All Eyez On Me. Zero on Makaveli. There are no Dr. Dre beats on Dogg Food. Zero on Retaliation, Revenge and Get Back. Those four albums, Dogg Food especially, are arguably better than any non-Jay Roc-A-Fella albums. That was my point.

[Magneto]

You take Jay out of Roc-A-Fella and while its still a "nice" label with Cam/Dips and Beans, it is no powerhouse.

There isnt one artist you can take out of Death Row and deminish it to that level. You can remove Dre from the equation, and Death Row still trumps most other labels.

If I take out Dre, Death Row is damn near irrelevant. If it wasn't for his beats, there would be no Death Row era.

Dre had two beats on All Eyez On Me. Zero on Makaveli. There are no Dr. Dre beats on Dogg Food. Zero on Retaliation, Revenge and Get Back. Those four albums, Dogg Food especially, are arguably better than any non-Jay Roc-A-Fella albums. That was my point.

Those albums wouldn't even exist without Dre. That's my point.

[blastmaster]

You take Jay out of Roc-A-Fella and while its still a "nice" label with Cam/Dips and Beans, it is no powerhouse.

There isnt one artist you can take out of Death Row and deminish it to that level. You can remove Dre from the equation, and Death Row still trumps most other labels.

If I take out Dre, Death Row is damn near irrelevant. If it wasn't for his beats, there would be no Death Row era.

Dre had two beats on All Eyez On Me. Zero on Makaveli. There are no Dr. Dre beats on Dogg Food. Zero on Retaliation, Revenge and Get Back. Those four albums, Dogg Food especially, are arguably better than any non-Jay Roc-A-Fella albums. That was my point.

Those albums wouldn't even exist without Dre. That's my point.

Irrelevant point.

[Magneto]

You take Jay out of Roc-A-Fella and while its still a "nice" label with Cam/Dips and Beans, it is no powerhouse.

There isnt one artist you can take out of Death Row and deminish it to that level. You can remove Dre from the equation, and Death Row still trumps most other labels.

If I take out Dre, Death Row is damn near irrelevant. If it wasn't for his beats, there would be no Death Row era.

Dre had two beats on All Eyez On Me. Zero on Makaveli. There are no Dr. Dre beats on Dogg Food. Zero on Retaliation, Revenge and Get Back. Those four albums, Dogg Food especially, are arguably better than any non-Jay Roc-A-Fella albums. That was my point.

Those albums wouldn't even exist without Dre. That's my point.

Irrelevant point.

No, it's very relevant to what you said. You stated that if Jay was taken out of Roc's lineup, it would be no powerhouse. But not one entity of Death row's roster, taken away would stop it's movement.

I disagree. If you take Dr.Dre out, they wouldn't be a powerhouse at all. They wouldn't even exist.

[Philaflava]

Dre started DR and made it what it was, but that doesn't mean he didn't have a great supporting cast. Dre was the MJ as Kurupt, Snoop, Daz, Nate Dogg, 2Pac was his supporting cast.

Album for album DR put out better material than Roc.

As for your quote from Snoop, you used an old quote from when they hated one another. I'm sure you could find similar rants made about Snoop from either Daz or Kurupt.

There isn't a compilation the Roc could make within its reign that could even touch

[Magneto]

Dre started DR and made it what it was, but that doesn't mean he didn't have a great supporting cast. Dre was the MJ as Kurupt, Snoop, Daz, Nate Dogg, 2Pac was his supporting cast.

Album for album DR put out better material than Roc.

As for your quote from Snoop, you used an old quote from when they hated one another. I'm sure you could find similar rants made about Snoop from either Daz or Kurupt.

There isn't a compilation the Roc could make within its reign that could even touch

I'm not saying Death Row didn't have a great cast for Dre, I'm just saying that the statement that "you couldn't take one person out and change the landscape of the label", is wrong. Dre is as important to Death Row as Jay-Z is to the Roc, if not more.

I think Roc-a-Fella has better albums. Death Row has more classic/better individual songs.

[Career Over Like Mike(NJJ)]

As far as individual songs go, other than the nostalgia factor involved, are tracks like "Afro Puffs", "What Would U Do", "Big Pimpin'", "New York New York", "U Betta Recognize" really that far beyond the likes of "The Truth", "Beanie (Mack Bitch)", "Welcome To NYC", "Dipset Anthem", "I Really Mean It", "What We Do", "Flipside", "All Falls Down", "2 Words", Mic Check" etc in quality?

[blastmaster]

If I take out Dre, Death Row is damn near irrelevant. If it wasn't for his beats, there would be no Death Row era.

Dre had two beats on All Eyez On Me. Zero on Makaveli. There are no Dr. Dre beats on Dogg Food. Zero on Retaliation, Revenge and Get Back. Those four albums, Dogg Food especially, are arguably better than any non-Jay Roc-A-Fella albums. That was my point.

Those albums wouldn't even exist without Dre. That's my point.

Irrelevant point.

No, it's very relevant to what you said. You stated that if Jay was taken out of Roc's lineup, it would be no powerhouse. But not one entity of Death row's roster, taken away would stop it's movement.

I disagree. If you take Dr.Dre out, they wouldn't be a powerhouse at all. They wouldn't even exist.

You are talking about hypotheticals. I am talking about actual records.

You are talking about removing Dre's "influnce", I am just talking about not counting his tracks... same with Jay.

[Magneto]

Dre had two beats on All Eyez On Me. Zero on Makaveli. There are no Dr. Dre beats on Dogg Food. Zero on Retaliation, Revenge and Get Back. Those four albums, Dogg Food especially, are arguably better than any non-Jay Roc-A-Fella albums. That was my point.

Those albums wouldn't even exist without Dre. That's my point.

Irrelevant point.

No, it's very relevant to what you said. You stated that if Jay was taken out of Roc's lineup, it would be no powerhouse. But not one entity of Death row's roster, taken away would stop it's movement.

I disagree. If you take Dr.Dre out, they wouldn't be a powerhouse at all. They wouldn't even exist.

You are talking about hypotheticals. I am talking about actual records.

You are talking about removing Dre's "influnce", I am just talking about not counting his tracks... same with Jay.

Ahh, I see what you're saying. Good point. Jay does have a bulk of the classic material from the Roc era. Though, MC for MC, the Roc, even without Jay, is better then Death Row, probably.

[Mindbender Futurama]

Those albums wouldn't even exist without Dre. That's my point.

Irrelevant point.

No, it's very relevant to what you said. You stated that if Jay was taken out of Roc's lineup, it would be no powerhouse. But not one entity of Death row's roster, taken away would stop it's movement.

I disagree. If you take Dr.Dre out, they wouldn't be a powerhouse at all. They wouldn't even exist.

You are talking about hypotheticals. I am talking about actual records.

You are talking about removing Dre's "influnce", I am just talking about not counting his tracks... same with Jay.

Ahh, I see what you're saying. Good point. Jay does have a bulk of the classic material from the Roc era. Though, MC for MC, the Roc, even without Jay, is better then Death Row, probably.

I might concede that the MCs on the Roc may be better than the MCs on Death Row. MAYBE. But the impact that they made wasn't nearly as large as what happened when Suge and Dre were at their prime.

Death Row had one of the greatest dynasties in all of music, fuck just hip-hop.

Death Row should be up against Def Jam.

Don't be ridiculous now.

it's true. not since Motown has ANY record label had the same string of platinum records that Death Row had.

sure, the 'Above the Rim' soundtrack was half full of shit, but Death Row was pumping out the plaques.

The Roc Dynasty never lived up to its full potential. EVER.

it ALMOST did, in 'Roc-tober'. But then they fumbled that shit too.

[The Frankest]

Just so everyone is on the same page.

Death Row: 1992-1996
Roc-A-Fella: 1996-2004

Anyone disagree?

[GUCCI CONDOMS]

mag is right without dre death row wouldnt exist...dre is the most important producer AND rapper to death row, cause he set shit off with the chronic and also introduced snoop to the world...lets not forget dre's eye for talent


however, I disagree with mag on the co-producers thing, he got a lot of help from people in the studio, to me dre is more an executive producer then a true producer, he oversees what other people are doing and then tweaks it to his liking, he is def a genius, but isnt a producer in the traditional sense...you cant just discount what daz and melman did for dre thats just ignorant, and oh really no producer has ever been successful without dre? well not that I like the guy, but scott storch has had a lot of success on his own without dre

[Combo7]

Ruthless Records > Death Row Records

Vote: Roc-A-Fella

[Magneto]

mag is right without dre death row wouldnt exist...dre is the most important producer AND rapper to death row, cause he set shit off with the chronic and also introduced snoop to the world...lets not forget dre's eye for talent


however, I disagree with mag on the co-producers thing, he got a lot of help from people in the studio, to me dre is more an executive producer then a true producer, he oversees what other people are doing and then tweaks it to his liking, he is def a genius, but isnt a producer in the traditional sense...you cant just discount what daz and melman did for dre thats just ignorant, and oh really no producer has ever been successful without dre? well not that I like the guy, but scott storch has had a lot of success on his own without dre

I didn't say other producers weren't successful without Dre, I said they are not very good without Dre.

Scott Storch is awful.

[GUCCI CONDOMS]

mag is right without dre death row wouldnt exist...dre is the most important producer AND rapper to death row, cause he set shit off with the chronic and also introduced snoop to the world...lets not forget dre's eye for talent


however, I disagree with mag on the co-producers thing, he got a lot of help from people in the studio, to me dre is more an executive producer then a true producer, he oversees what other people are doing and then tweaks it to his liking, he is def a genius, but isnt a producer in the traditional sense...you cant just discount what daz and melman did for dre thats just ignorant, and oh really no producer has ever been successful without dre? well not that I like the guy, but scott storch has had a lot of success on his own without dre

I didn't say other producers weren't successful without Dre, I said they are not very good without Dre.

Scott Storch is awful.

well thats what your snoop quote said...so you are saying daz and melman arent talented producers? is it success or talent that you are arguing about dre's co-producers?



daz has had a lot of dope beats after his death row career...I dont think its fair to just completely write him off...dre hasnt done anything mind blowing after chronic 2001, so you could say what has dre done without melman?


it goes both ways man

[Magneto]

mag is right without dre death row wouldnt exist...dre is the most important producer AND rapper to death row, cause he set shit off with the chronic and also introduced snoop to the world...lets not forget dre's eye for talent


however, I disagree with mag on the co-producers thing, he got a lot of help from people in the studio, to me dre is more an executive producer then a true producer, he oversees what other people are doing and then tweaks it to his liking, he is def a genius, but isnt a producer in the traditional sense...you cant just discount what daz and melman did for dre thats just ignorant, and oh really no producer has ever been successful without dre? well not that I like the guy, but scott storch has had a lot of success on his own without dre

I didn't say other producers weren't successful without Dre, I said they are not very good without Dre.

Scott Storch is awful.

well thats what your snoop quote said...so you are saying daz and melman arent talented producers? is it success or talent that you are arguing about dre's co-producers?



daz has had a lot of dope beats after his death row career...I dont think its fair to just completely write him off...dre hasnt done anything mind blowing after chronic 2001, so you could say what has dre done without melman?


it goes both ways man

Daz hasn't made a non-Dre beat that I thought was great.

I'm saying that producers without Dre do not make anything close to the stuff they make with him. To me, that means something.

To me, Daz and them are like Pippen and Grant. Lucky to be on the same team as Jordan.

[GUCCI CONDOMS]

mag is right without dre death row wouldnt exist...dre is the most important producer AND rapper to death row, cause he set shit off with the chronic and also introduced snoop to the world...lets not forget dre's eye for talent


however, I disagree with mag on the co-producers thing, he got a lot of help from people in the studio, to me dre is more an executive producer then a true producer, he oversees what other people are doing and then tweaks it to his liking, he is def a genius, but isnt a producer in the traditional sense...you cant just discount what daz and melman did for dre thats just ignorant, and oh really no producer has ever been successful without dre? well not that I like the guy, but scott storch has had a lot of success on his own without dre

I didn't say other producers weren't successful without Dre, I said they are not very good without Dre.

Scott Storch is awful.

well thats what your snoop quote said...so you are saying daz and melman arent talented producers? is it success or talent that you are arguing about dre's co-producers?



daz has had a lot of dope beats after his death row career...I dont think its fair to just completely write him off...dre hasnt done anything mind blowing after chronic 2001, so you could say what has dre done without melman?


it goes both ways man

Daz hasn't made a non-Dre beat that I thought was great.

I'm saying that producers without Dre do not make anything close to the stuff they make with him. To me, that means something.

To me, Daz and them are like Pippen and Grant. Lucky to be on the same team as Jordan.

fair enough, but do you really think the chronic and chronic 2001 would have turned out as good without daz and melman respectively?

[GUCCI CONDOMS]

people hate on dre cause he doesnt give his co-producers credit...I guess none of will ever know how valid this is because we arent in the studios when the albums are made its all speculation and I dont wanna throw this thread off track...so lets just leave it at that

[Req]

Though, MC for MC, the Roc, even without Jay, is better then Death Row, probably.

2Pac > Jay-Z
92-97 Snoop > Beans
Dre > Kanye
Kurupt > Camron
Daz > Freeway
Lady of Rage > Amil
Sam Sneed and J-Flexx > Rest of State Prop.
DJ Eazy-Dick > DJ Clue



Seriously though, re: the producer thing. Bootsy, Catfish and Eddie Hazel were all very talented musicians in their own right, but it still took George Clinton to put it all together and create something legendary. I look at the Dre situation as being similar, the difference being he wasn't a natural born leader, that's why at every situation he's been in both before and since, he's been dominated by stronger personalities, i.e. Eazy, Suge, Jimmy Iovine... shit even 50 Cent to a degree.

[Magneto]

Though, MC for MC, the Roc, even without Jay, is better then Death Row, probably.

2Pac > Jay-Z

Stopped reading

[GUCCI CONDOMS]

Though, MC for MC, the Roc, even without Jay, is better then Death Row, probably.

2Pac > Jay-Z
92-97 Snoop > Beans
Dre > Kanye
Kurupt > Camron
Daz > Freeway
Lady of Rage > Amil
Sam Sneed and J-Flexx > Rest of State Prop.
DJ Eazy-Dick > DJ Clue



Seriously though, re: the producer thing. Bootsy, Catfish and Eddie Hazel were all very talented musicians in their own right, but it still took George Clinton to put it all together and create something legendary. I look at the Dre situation as being similar, the difference being he wasn't a natural born leader, that's why at every situation he's been in both before and since, he's been dominated by stronger personalities, i.e. Eazy, Suge, Jimmy Iovine... shit even 50 Cent to a degree.

lol@kurupt being better then cam...you are on crack

[Req]

Though, MC for MC, the Roc, even without Jay, is better then Death Row, probably.

2Pac > Jay-Z

Stopped reading

one is considered the greatest rapper of all time, the other spends most of his time calling himself the greatest

[Magneto]

Though, MC for MC, the Roc, even without Jay, is better then Death Row, probably.

2Pac > Jay-Z

Stopped reading

one is considered the greatest rapper of all time, the other spends most of his time calling himself the greatest

Only people who consider 2Pac the GOAT are scumbags. That shit isn't wavy.