When it is time to call it quits?

Smitty · Post by **Smitty** » Mon May 10, 2010 10:37 pm

Seriously though, Jay Electronica does rule.

Sebastion Shaw · Post by **Sebastion Shaw** » Mon May 10, 2010 11:46 pm

Couple things.........

I know a grip of artists and am close to a few. Everyone has a different standard of living. Alot of cats go thru alot of stress and put alot of energy into being an artist with marginal success that a few people know about. Are they happy with that? Yes in their minds they are. Having no kids, no house no car, no wife and other responsibilities affords them this.

I know a few artists saying that they don't work day jobs and live off the music. Cool, but your "living" is probably not equal to someone who pays a mortgage and has mouths to feed and other responsibilities. I've asked a few artists i'm around why they won't tour and all that if the opportunity presents itself and the bottom line to what they tell me is "that ain't no real money and it ain't gauranteed" I gotta respect them because these cats have Homes,cars,family and already travel the world just on vacations and can afford some pretty nice things. Compared to someone struggling in either a 1 bedroom apt or someones couch talking about "I just live off my music"

It's a difference but again it goes back to standard of living. Some folks are cool living out of a box with their girl and talking that shit, while others are cool making sure they keep their lawns mowed and own their own businesses and have their kids in school and have vehicles that are paid off to ride in as opposed to bus passes.

I think that the basis of the convo started is: Are you going to be a marginal musician struggling to get by forever or are you going to think about having a tangible future and an actual resume' that doesn't just read "rapper". It's cool, but so is face and neck tattoos and criminal records.........but there comes a time when you have to think about future and not just present. Music is an art that few folks have been able to make money from, but how long does that paper stretch realistically? Even if a person gets fired from a job or whatever, they still have something to show on a resume' other than "yeah I rapped for 10 yrs." Trust me I've seen some of these rapper dudes working fast food because they thought they were "living the rap life" and I've seen some do the art and live a "professional"life.

YouTube · Post by **Philaflava** » Tue May 11, 2010 12:45 am

360 wrote:I didn't bring up jay Elect for the purpose of pitting him against the people who frequent this board and also happen to rap. I brought it up because he is the antithesis of Gloss' side of the argument, yet Gloss loves him so much. That's irony of it. Jay Electronica is a 35-36 year old rapper who didn't become even slightly successful until last year. Sure he rapped for years before his success like very other person on this board who raps, successful or not, but he didn't really come out until last year, or the year before that, not to mention the fact that he has been homeless, on and off, through his fucking 20's.

I wonder how he met Erika Badu.

I know what you were doing, but you realize Jay is a unique rare individual/exception. You're making it like Mindbender is just a few years away. No. Jay Electronica is on some Ichiro shit. He came in late and just straight ran shit.

YouTube · Post by **Philaflava** » Tue May 11, 2010 12:56 am

Also I didn't bring up Jay, just responded to your claim. I don't think there is one rapper on here, despite how dope many are like OME, Cash, Godamus, Tui, Self, Hustle, Keen, Big Scen, Ardamus, Sean, and so fourth that could pull of a track like this.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/L7DiEsq682E&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/L7DiEsq682E&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Now that we established that. When is it okay to put the mic down?

Nom Inf · Post by **Nom Inf** » Tue May 11, 2010 1:56 am

Everybody's idea of success is different. When you realise you can't be successful off of rap music, you should hang it up on the proffessional tip. As far as rapping in your own project studio, rap til you're blue in the face. I know cats who make dope music, work their 9-5's and are content.

Most of my favorite rappers are over 30. Age has little do with it at this point. Image on the other hand, has everything to do with it.

elohim · Post by **elohim** » Tue May 11, 2010 2:18 am

Smitty wrote:And oh yeah, some rappers came out the woodwork to brag about their wives' PhDs, and put up some links to their shit. Can't forget about all them, they added so much to the discourse.

My bad, I usually never draw attention to myself. I'm just a normal working dude like anyone else and I do music in my free time for fun. I guess being called the worst rapper ever gave me some undeserved moxie.

Jay Elec >>>> me x infinity obviously, I messaged dude asking if he needed any free beats a while back.

More to the point,

Nom Inf wrote:Everybody's idea of success is different. When you realise you can't be successful off of rap music, you should hang it up on the proffessional tip. As far as rapping in your own project studio, rap til you're blue in the face. I know cats who make dope music, work their 9-5's and are content.

Most of my favorite rappers are over 30. Age has little do with it at this point. Image on the other hand, has everything to do with it.

co-signed, like 3/4 of the posts in this thread

Sucka Ducka · Post by **Sucka Ducka** » Tue May 11, 2010 4:02 am

I have a hard time seeing the bigger picture to making music (especially in this day and age, but even when you couldn't download an entire discography in 10 minutes) unless I had a stable job i was happy with and just did it as a hobby. Since I think I have a few more years of getting this set up, I can't imagine being in my early 30's and revisiting the idea of being a rapper/producer if I had a business/career/wife/etc on the line. I'll probably always fuck with music to some degree, as most die hard music fans/artists have a hard time letting go completely. But when friends try to tell me that I should stick with it or other artists "making moves" try to help me out, I think of all the rappers/musicians who I "look up to" who are broke...and I will never be as dope some of them. The last thing the world needs is another rapper or producer, even if you are dope. There are dope artists in almost every city who will fail and go unheard, even giving it their "all". I have very little desire to do much beyond create music, so that doesn't help. Nowadays you need to have the full hustle going (booking shows, promotion, etc, etc) and hopefully parlay that into a full team of people helping you. Image is easily as important as the quality of music in many cases. If you're not getting paid much, the most your getting is the occasional lay and various asshole telling you "that shit's dope", aside from the enjoyment of making the music itself. I have plenty of incredibly talented artist friends (not just rap or even music, and I am sure many people have at least a couple friends with immense talent in the "arts") and since I met some of these people when I was younger and they were a bit older, I got to hear the cool tour stories, watch them sign to labels, get groupies, etc, but I also got to watch them grow old without a lot to show for it...some cool war stories, a back catalog of records sitting in their basement, recognition, whatever. Their current life (for the older dudes I am referring to, two of which have toured the world on music) isn't much to brag about in most cases. Most of them would probably tell you it was worth it. Looking from the outside, I can't see it. A few people I know are currently making some solid moves, and I applaud them, but in the long run, what is their future going to look like? I think it takes someone who has no other ideas or options to really give it their all. I think you genuinely have to not give a fuck about much else. It took me a long time to completely dead the dream, but I have other hobbies that, given the time and energy, have more possibilities of becoming lucrative than music would ever be- I never thought I would have other "dreams" I wanted more than the ones related to music, and now that dream is faded - new dreams stepped up and took their place.

Acting like artists are the only people who have dreams to follow and risks to take in life outside of working their boring cubicle job is pretty ridiculous - and I'd bet that a lot of those people working their boring desk jobs have a more solid foundation to launch their ideas from than the average guy who gave everything to music since their teens.

It takes a LOT of delusion to chase the dream hard enough to actually catch any kind of big break, in most cases. If you took someone as batshit crazy as Mindbender, who had a more marketable look and sound, added a little more business know-how, you might just have a hit artist on your hands. Most of the "get rich"/self help type books or autobiography stories of those who came from nothing and have abundance and success have the story of "nobody believed in me and I beat the odds". "Everyone thought I was crazy and delusional" is a big part of many success stories....conversely, its also the story plenty of failures tell. So it could happen...or you could fuck your entire life up. Half-assing it might produce some good music and a small amount of fans, but generally, I see a lot of talented people half assing it that eventually give up and move on to more stable grounds. Talent + not knowing when to quit + connections and a little hustle about yourself, and it would be difficult to not see some signs of success. But making a living is a whole different story.

End of the day, do you - but those who don't realize that they are growing older and their options are running out as they risk their entire lives on a giant gamble, they deserve to end up working at a gas station just for believing they were the "next big thing" despite years of signs pointing to the contrary. Those who have good jobs that they enjoy and make music because they enjoy it, well,

Remo the Great · Post by **Remo the Great** » Tue May 11, 2010 4:06 am

Philaflava wrote:Also I didn't bring up Jay, just responded to your claim. I don't think there is one rapper on here, despite how dope many are like OME, Cash, Godamus, Tui, Self, Hustle, Keen, Big Scen, Ardamus, Sean, and so fourth that could pull of a track like this.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/L7DiEsq682E&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/L7DiEsq682E&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Now that we established that. When is it okay to put the mic down?

Not to start an argument or anything... But I don't really see what all the fuss is about Exhibit A/C. It's dope yes... But nothing more. Why are y'all so nutso over it?

But to address the topic... I'll stop trying to rap/makebeats for a living when I either stop being inspired or doing so becomes work.

I spend the majority of my free time and my days off making beats, engineering, or writing. I'll do a 12-16 hour day of that without blinking and wonder where the time went. When that becomes me only going to the studio because I think I have to, it's time to find something else that makes me happy.

And personally, I know I'll never be satisfied with my life until I make a legitimate run at doing music full time. I've realized over the past couple years that I've only been poking around the edges of the game. I am currently trying to manuever myself into a better position to take the full plunge.

If really going balls out at the music doesnt pan out in any way (and remember I do more than just rap) by 33-35 I'll probably re-evaluate my existence. But I have faith that shit will work out. I've got multiple people/avenues/plans in place. I may never be famous, but I firmly believe I can work the rest of my life in music/media.

Moolah · Post by **Moolah** » Tue May 11, 2010 4:48 am

Hacksaw Jim Thuggin wrote:I have a hard time seeing the bigger picture to making music (especially in this day and age, but even when you couldn't download an entire discography in 10 minutes) unless I had a stable job i was happy with and just did it as a hobby. Since I think I have a few more years of getting this set up, I can't imagine being in my early 30's and revisiting the idea of being a rapper/producer if I had a business/career/wife/etc on the line. I'll probably always fuck with music to some degree, as most die hard music fans/artists have a hard time letting go completely. But when friends try to tell me that I should stick with it or other artists "making moves" try to help me out, I think of all the rappers/musicians who I "look up to" who are broke...and I will never be as dope some of them. The last thing the world needs is another rapper or producer, even if you are dope. There are dope artists in almost every city who will fail and go unheard, even giving it their "all". I have very little desire to do much beyond create music, so that doesn't help. Nowadays you need to have the full hustle going (booking shows, promotion, etc, etc) and hopefully parlay that into a full team of people helping you. Image is easily as important as the quality of music in many cases. If you're not getting paid much, the most your getting is the occasional lay and various asshole telling you "that shit's dope", aside from the enjoyment of making the music itself. I have plenty of incredibly talented artist friends (not just rap or even music, and I am sure many people have at least a couple friends with immense talent in the "arts") and since I met some of these people when I was younger and they were a bit older, I got to hear the cool tour stories, watch them sign to labels, get groupies, etc, but I also got to watch them grow old without a lot to show for it...some cool war stories, a back catalog of records sitting in their basement, recognition, whatever. Their current life (for the older dudes I am referring to, two of which have toured the world on music) isn't much to brag about in most cases. Most of them would probably tell you it was worth it. Looking from the outside, I can't see it. A few people I know are currently making some solid moves, and I applaud them, but in the long run, what is their future going to look like? I think it takes someone who has no other ideas or options to really give it their all. I think you genuinely have to not give a fuck about much else. It took me a long time to completely dead the dream, but I have other hobbies that, given the time and energy, have more possibilities of becoming lucrative than music would ever be- I never thought I would have other "dreams" I wanted more than the ones related to music, and now that dream is faded - new dreams stepped up and took their place.

Acting like artists are the only people who have dreams to follow and risks to take in life outside of working their boring cubicle job is pretty ridiculous - and I'd bet that a lot of those people working their boring desk jobs have a more solid foundation to launch their ideas from than the average guy who gave everything to music since their teens.

It takes a LOT of delusion to chase the dream hard enough to actually catch any kind of big break, in most cases. If you took someone as batshit crazy as Mindbender, who had a more marketable look and sound, added a little more business know-how, you might just have a hit artist on your hands. Most of the "get rich"/self help type books or autobiography stories of those who came from nothing and have abundance and success have the story of "nobody believed in me and I beat the odds". "Everyone thought I was crazy and delusional" is a big part of many success stories....conversely, its also the story plenty of failures tell. So it could happen...or you could fuck your entire life up. Half-assing it might produce some good music and a small amount of fans, but generally, I see a lot of talented people half assing it that eventually give up and move on to more stable grounds. Talent + not knowing when to quit + connections and a little hustle about yourself, and it would be difficult to not see some signs of success. But making a living is a whole different story.

End of the day, do you - but those who don't realize that they are growing older and their options are running out as they risk their entire lives on a giant gamble, they deserve to end up working at a gas station just for believing they were the "next big thing" despite years of signs pointing to the contrary. Those who have good jobs that they enjoy and make music because they enjoy it, well,

Could you expand on this point a little?

Sucka Ducka · Post by **Sucka Ducka** » Tue May 11, 2010 6:51 am

I was gonna delete that, lol. nm.

YouTube · Post by **Philaflava** » Tue May 11, 2010 7:51 am

Remo the Great wrote:Not to start an argument or anything... But I don't really see what all the fuss is about Exhibit A/C. It's dope yes... But nothing more. Why are y'all so nutso over it?

Im going to create another thread about this (yes, again), just so it doesn't change directions.

Reggie · Post by **Reggie** » Tue May 11, 2010 8:49 am

I like how a lot of these retired myspace rappers are coming out of the woodwork to validate themselves. No one was, is, or will ever check for your shit. Go ahead and make your shitty music, it won't affect anything.

The Ivy League Nigga · Tue May 11, 2010 11:09 am

Haven't we learned by now that, despite a few islands of honesty, posters (rappers and desk-jockeys alike) on this board are far too busy justifying (read: lying and stretching) their experience to have an honest discussion about anything career, money, or life-goal related?

Reggie · Post by **Reggie** » Tue May 11, 2010 11:55 am

The Ivy League Nigga wrote:Haven't we learned by now that, despite a few islands of honesty, posters (rappers and desk-jockeys alike) on this board are far too busy justifying (read: lying and stretching) their experience to have an honest discussion about anything career, money, or life-goal related?

If I wasn't busy managing my multi-million dollar home business and ruminating on how trife my childhood was while getting blowjobs from beautiful strippers I might have to explain just how wrong you are about this.

ardamus · Post by **ardamus** » Tue May 11, 2010 12:05 pm

Another one of these threads, eh?

I do it because its something I enjoy doing it.
When will I quit? Who knows......I figured I would've stopped when I was 30 in high school but I still get ideas to make music. Yes, I got a degree. Yes, I kept a job. Yes, I own my property. No kids. No wife. Credit isn't bad

. And I was still able to put out shit and open for people I greatly respect.

My biggest drawback I can say is not knowing the right people or the right way about getting to tour in the beginning. Hell, it took me years to even find a dependable studio to record in. Once that came along, how to tour and do it right was the next question. So, I got a few years.....I'll tour a little and see what happens; thats the only thing I'm missing from what I could accomplish. Had two record deals that fell thru; nothing even real big......just indie shit. Niggas offered to manage me when I was in college but yet didn't really get what I was trying to do. On top of that, got underestimated

. So now, that I've been able surpass some of that shit personally, I don't see myself quitting just yet. When I feel like its time, then its time......

And another thing, never knew why but I never trusted the music business fully. I always saw myself having another job in the back of my head. I guess alot of horror stories of the business did a number on me.

Nom Inf · Post by **Nom Inf** » Tue May 11, 2010 12:09 pm

PackFM wrote: advice to rappers: invest in land/properties, not being homeless should always be your main priority.
and if you have kids, get life insurance, its not that expensive, you can get a policy for like $50 a month.

you don't have to sell 50,000 records to secure your future

Decent advice, right here.

Making money in music isn't over. But nowadays, your hustle(or luck) has to be through the roof. Your business and marketing plans have to be creative and concise. It also helps to be from a nationally recognizable scene. My perspective is different because I live in a city where that music industry money is still flowing a little something.

The Ivy League Nigga · Tue May 11, 2010 1:01 pm

Reggie wrote:
The Ivy League Nigga wrote:Haven't we learned by now that, despite a few islands of honesty, posters (rappers and desk-jockeys alike) on this board are far too busy justifying (read: lying and stretching) their experience to have an honest discussion about anything career, money, or life-goal related?
If I wasn't busy managing my multi-million dollar home business and ruminating on how trife my childhood was while getting blowjobs from beautiful strippers I might have to explain just how wrong you are about this.

L-O-Fucking-L

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Tue May 11, 2010 1:23 pm

The Ivy League Nigga wrote:Haven't we learned by now that, despite a few islands of honesty, posters (rappers and desk-jockeys alike) on this board are far too busy justifying (read: lying and stretching) their experience to have an honest discussion about anything career, money, or life-goal related?

Sure. But it doesn't change the fact that this entitled, condescending, pseudo-artistic stance against getting a job also manages to be trite, cliched, puerile, and monumentally stupid all at once. Especially when it comes from artists that nobody gives a shit about to begin with.

Employee · Post by **Employee** » Tue May 11, 2010 1:28 pm

Thun wrote:
The Ivy League Nigga wrote:Haven't we learned by now that, despite a few islands of honesty, posters (rappers and desk-jockeys alike) on this board are far too busy justifying (read: lying and stretching) their experience to have an honest discussion about anything career, money, or life-goal related?
Sure. But it doesn't change the fact that this entitled, condescending, pseudo-artistic stance against getting a job also manages to be trite, cliched, puerile, and monumentally stupid all at once. Especially when it comes from artists that nobody gives a shit about to begin with.

Ill subliminal at makers of short films.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Tue May 11, 2010 1:30 pm

Employee wrote:
Thun wrote:
The Ivy League Nigga wrote:Haven't we learned by now that, despite a few islands of honesty, posters (rappers and desk-jockeys alike) on this board are far too busy justifying (read: lying and stretching) their experience to have an honest discussion about anything career, money, or life-goal related?
Sure. But it doesn't change the fact that this entitled, condescending, pseudo-artistic stance against getting a job also manages to be trite, cliched, puerile, and monumentally stupid all at once. Especially when it comes from artists that nobody gives a shit about to begin with.
Ill subliminal at makers of short films.

Nah. If memory serves correctly, ILN has actually spoken humbly and realistically about his professional goals.

KhillA · Post by **KhillA** » Tue May 11, 2010 1:30 pm

lets just all post our credit scores and see who wins

Employee · Post by **Employee** » Tue May 11, 2010 1:32 pm

Thun wrote:
Employee wrote:
Thun wrote:
The Ivy League Nigga wrote:Haven't we learned by now that, despite a few islands of honesty, posters (rappers and desk-jockeys alike) on this board are far too busy justifying (read: lying and stretching) their experience to have an honest discussion about anything career, money, or life-goal related?
Sure. But it doesn't change the fact that this entitled, condescending, pseudo-artistic stance against getting a job also manages to be trite, cliched, puerile, and monumentally stupid all at once. Especially when it comes from artists that nobody gives a shit about to begin with.
Ill subliminal at makers of short films.
Nah. If memory serves correctly, ILN has actually spoken humbly and realistically about his professional goals.

And still maintains his fondness for being a complete faggot. Good for him.

Employee · Post by **Employee** » Tue May 11, 2010 1:32 pm

KhillA wrote:lets just all post our credit scores and see who wins

Your FICO score is illegal.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Tue May 11, 2010 1:33 pm

Employee wrote:
KhillA wrote:lets just all post our credit scores and see who wins
Your FICO score is illegal.

Rob Sonic · Post by **Rob Sonic** » Tue May 11, 2010 2:21 pm

I made 1,587 dollars on music last month. my rent is a g I spent the rest on booze and pot. something tells me i could be doing better at rap and life in general

The Ivy League Nigga · Tue May 11, 2010 2:55 pm

Thun wrote:
Employee wrote:
Thun wrote:
The Ivy League Nigga wrote:Haven't we learned by now that, despite a few islands of honesty, posters (rappers and desk-jockeys alike) on this board are far too busy justifying (read: lying and stretching) their experience to have an honest discussion about anything career, money, or life-goal related?
Sure. But it doesn't change the fact that this entitled, condescending, pseudo-artistic stance against getting a job also manages to be trite, cliched, puerile, and monumentally stupid all at once. Especially when it comes from artists that nobody gives a shit about to begin with.
Ill subliminal at makers of short films.
Nah. If memory serves correctly, ILN has actually spoken humbly and realistically about his professional goals.

Yeah, I've always tried to be honest about accomplishments and lack there of.

Employee, would you rather me pass off every chance meeting I have with a known-person in the film industry as some major career accomplishment...

"Oh my god, I just shook hands with Spike Jonze

Y.O.T.I.L.N. continues. FILM IS OUT OF CONTROL!

"

Smitty · Post by **Smitty** » Tue May 11, 2010 3:01 pm

Thun wrote:this entitled, condescending, pseudo-artistic stance against getting a job also manages to be trite, cliched, puerile, and monumentally stupid all at once. Especially when it comes from artists that nobody gives a shit about to begin with.

Where did any of the artists who replied in this thread take on this stance?

I haven't seen any of the real condescending "the working man's a sucker" philosophy that permeates so much of rap.

YouTube · Post by **Philaflava** » Tue May 11, 2010 3:05 pm

Rob Sonic wrote:I made 1,587 dollars on music last month. my rent is a g I spent the rest on booze and pot. something tells me i could be doing better at rap and life in general

you're lucky you live in NY otherwise you'd be paying a car note too.

Employee · Post by **Employee** » Tue May 11, 2010 3:09 pm

The Ivy League Nigga wrote:
Thun wrote:
Employee wrote:
Thun wrote:
The Ivy League Nigga wrote:Haven't we learned by now that, despite a few islands of honesty, posters (rappers and desk-jockeys alike) on this board are far too busy justifying (read: lying and stretching) their experience to have an honest discussion about anything career, money, or life-goal related?
Sure. But it doesn't change the fact that this entitled, condescending, pseudo-artistic stance against getting a job also manages to be trite, cliched, puerile, and monumentally stupid all at once. Especially when it comes from artists that nobody gives a shit about to begin with.
Ill subliminal at makers of short films.
Nah. If memory serves correctly, ILN has actually spoken humbly and realistically about his professional goals.
Yeah, I've always tried to be honest about accomplishments and lack there of.

Employee, would you rather me pass off every chance meeting I have with a known-person in the film industry as some major career accomplishment...

"Oh my god, I just shook hands with Spike Jonze Y.O.T.I.L.N. continues. FILM IS OUT OF CONTROL! "

I don't care who you meet or know or touch or breathe on. You're clearly brimming with the urge (nh) to name drop.

Employee · Post by **Employee** » Tue May 11, 2010 3:11 pm

Smitty wrote:"the working man's a sucker"

The funny thing is they are victims of the same philosophy, for the most part.

Accepting your fate as a cubicle monkey is accepting an exterior view of what your coffin will look like.