PTS wrote:Tough one...I guess 94 on the strength of Outkast, Scarface and Beatnuts...
Also, music doesn't "age", it is inherently good or bad from the start... You just realize years later that you were influenced by a fad...
Good point, I agree with this...
Yes and no.
The element of time needs to be applied to any given album to understand it's artistic value and its overall impact.
Lots of us were wanting to declare "The Black Album" or " Only Built for Cuban Linx 2" as classics when they came out. One of them, there may be a case for.
The fact that there are more agreed on classics from 10-20+ years ago vs. today. It's not necessarily a knock on an album that came out last week, it's just that we could easily mislabel something a classic. Or we could overlook something that 10+ years down the road that we will identify as timeless.
Hard to really judge something in music based on initial listen/assessment.
I think 10/20/100 even years down the road, things will be looked at way differently. I spend a lot of time thinking about that.
Blockhead wrote:Maybe the Nostalgia is dying in me but can you actually put on a Lords of the underground album in 2018 and enjoy it? Like,that whole era and style (Das EFX, shadez of lingo, etc included) is so unlistenable to me now. And I loved it back then.
Wild and loose statement there, Antonio.
A Das EFX does not equal a Shadez of Lingo per your own example; some shit ages a lot better than others.
PTS wrote:Also, music doesn't "age", it is inherently good or bad from the start... You just realize years later that you were influenced by a fad...
Everything ages and changes; music is entirely unique to every individual. You can listen to Beethoven or some fancy shit like that once every year and it would be interpreted by you differently based on its age as well as your own.
Your relationship with art reads like a fucking nightmare.
Blockhead wrote:Maybe the Nostalgia is dying in me but can you actually put on a Lords of the underground album in 2018 and enjoy it? Like,that whole era and style (Das EFX, shadez of lingo, etc included) is so unlistenable to me now. And I loved it back then.
Wild and loose statement there, Antonio.
A Das EFX does not equal a Shadez of Lingo per your own example; some shit ages a lot better than others.
Das efx is light years better than any of the other tongue twisting gibberish groups of their time
PTS wrote:Also, music doesn't "age", it is inherently good or bad from the start... You just realize years later that you were influenced by a fad...
Everything ages and changes; music is entirely unique to every individual. You can listen to Beethoven or some fancy shit like that once every year and it would be interpreted by you differently based on its age as well as your own.
Your relationship with art reads like a fucking nightmare.
Gotta agree with the last emperor here. Billy Holiday sounds aged and dated. Because it is. Yet it’s incredible and timeless music. Just one of a million examples.
PTS wrote:Also, music doesn't "age", it is inherently good or bad from the start... You just realize years later that you were influenced by a fad...
Everything ages and changes; music is entirely unique to every individual. You can listen to Beethoven or some fancy shit like that once every year and it would be interpreted by you differently based on its age as well as your own.
Your relationship with art reads like a fucking nightmare.
Gotta agree with the last emperor here. Billy Holiday sounds aged and dated. Because it is. Yet it’s incredible and timeless music. Just one of a million examples.
By “aged and dated”, I assume you mean that it carries a particular esthetic from that time (which is part of why those Billie Holliday records are so great...) But it is still as powerful and brilliant today as it was in the 30’s... When Gloss talked about aged music, I understood it had a negative connotation. Like “this LOTUG album was good, but now that it’s dated it’s bad”. No, this album was flawed from the start, and we should have noticed it. It was objectively bad already back then. That’s the point here, there’s objectivity in everything. My personal interpretation and relation to music doesn’t change its nature.
PTS wrote:Also, music doesn't "age", it is inherently good or bad from the start... You just realize years later that you were influenced by a fad...
Everything ages and changes; music is entirely unique to every individual. You can listen to Beethoven or some fancy shit like that once every year and it would be interpreted by you differently based on its age as well as your own.
Your relationship with art reads like a fucking nightmare.
Gotta agree with the last emperor here. Billy Holiday sounds aged and dated. Because it is. Yet it’s incredible and timeless music. Just one of a million examples.
By “aged and dated”, I assume you mean that it carries a particular esthetic from that time (which is part of why those Billie Holliday records are so great...) But it is still as powerful and brilliant today as it was in the 30’s... When Gloss talked about aged music, I understood it had a negative connotation. Like “this LOTUG album was good, but now that it’s dated it’s bad”. No, this album was flawed from the start, and we should have noticed it. It was objectively bad already back then. That’s the point here, there’s objectivity in everything. My personal interpretation and relation to music doesn’t change its nature.
We change. We get older. Our taste in all things tend to change. But looking back, the 90s had some of the worst fashion but produced some of the best music so I'm not sure if the "fad" label can be applied to all things here. Yes, LOTUG were kind of that one-trick pony which was common at the time.
PTS wrote:Also, music doesn't "age", it is inherently good or bad from the start... You just realize years later that you were influenced by a fad...
Everything ages and changes; music is entirely unique to every individual. You can listen to Beethoven or some fancy shit like that once every year and it would be interpreted by you differently based on its age as well as your own.
Your relationship with art reads like a fucking nightmare.
Gotta agree with the last emperor here. Billy Holiday sounds aged and dated. Because it is. Yet it’s incredible and timeless music. Just one of a million examples.
By “aged and dated”, I assume you mean that it carries a particular esthetic from that time (which is part of why those Billie Holliday records are so great...) But it is still as powerful and brilliant today as it was in the 30’s... When Gloss talked about aged music, I understood it had a negative connotation. Like “this LOTUG album was good, but now that it’s dated it’s bad”. No, this album was flawed from the start, and we should have noticed it. It was objectively bad already back then. That’s the point here, there’s objectivity in everything. My personal interpretation and relation to music doesn’t change its nature.
We change. We get older. Our taste in all things tend to change. But looking back, the 90s had some of the worst fashion but produced some of the best music so I'm not sure if the "fad" label can be applied to all things here. Yes, LOTUG were kind of that one-trick pony which was common at the time.
Yeah, there is plenty of rap from that era that wasn't a "fad" but aged badly. It was dudes trying to do something different. they did it, it went over well during that time but, 20 years later, it sounds like silly bullshit. That is music aging badly. There is no avoiding it. If you disagree you are far too waded in nostalgia to have a valid opinion based in reality.
PTS wrote:Also, music doesn't "age", it is inherently good or bad from the start... You just realize years later that you were influenced by a fad...
Everything ages and changes; music is entirely unique to every individual. You can listen to Beethoven or some fancy shit like that once every year and it would be interpreted by you differently based on its age as well as your own.
Your relationship with art reads like a fucking nightmare.
terrible example. classical music is timeless. wack shit ages poorly.
MJ is also timeless for example. a lil while ago i met my homegirl at this bar and it was "80s night". DJ kept taking requests. the only remotely listenable shit was MJ.
X-Clan I can listen to if happened to hear it play somewhere , but probably would not by choice these days. They weren't corny, nor did they make wack music. Fads are whats going on now with all these mumble rappers. That's a fad to me.
Philaflava wrote:X-Clan I can listen to if happened to hear it play somewhere , but probably would not by choice these days. They weren't corny, nor did they make wack music. Fads are whats going on now with all these mumble rappers. That's a fad to me.
I wouldn't say "mumble rap" is a fad since that style of rap has basically defined a whole decade. What was LOTUG's window, 1-2 years tops?
PTS wrote:Also, music doesn't "age", it is inherently good or bad from the start... You just realize years later that you were influenced by a fad...
Everything ages and changes; music is entirely unique to every individual. You can listen to Beethoven or some fancy shit like that once every year and it would be interpreted by you differently based on its age as well as your own.
Your relationship with art reads like a fucking nightmare.
terrible example. classical music is timeless. wack shit ages poorly.
MJ is also timeless for example. a lil while ago i met my homegirl at this bar and it was "80s night". DJ kept taking requests. the only remotely listenable shit was MJ.
That's the point, if something has aged horribly that means it prob was never that great in the first place
PTS wrote:Also, music doesn't "age", it is inherently good or bad from the start... You just realize years later that you were influenced by a fad...
Everything ages and changes; music is entirely unique to every individual. You can listen to Beethoven or some fancy shit like that once every year and it would be interpreted by you differently based on its age as well as your own.
Your relationship with art reads like a fucking nightmare.
terrible example. classical music is timeless. wack shit ages poorly.
MJ is also timeless for example. a lil while ago i met my homegirl at this bar and it was "80s night". DJ kept taking requests. the only remotely listenable shit was MJ.
That's the point, if something has aged horribly that means it prob was never that great in the first place
A lot of late 90's/very early 2000's rap, both commercial and underground was great then but did not age well.
This is true. At the time, I thoroughly enjoyed 3rd Bass. They made good music, it just hasn't aged well and I don't find myself wanting to hear their music much these days. They didn't make wack music, it was dope at the time. Just not what I care to listen to now. This has nothing to do with the quality. Some movies don't age well. Same shit.
Philaflava wrote:This is true. At the time, I thoroughly enjoyed 3rd Bass. They made good music, it just hasn't aged well and I don't find myself wanting to hear their music much these days. They didn't make wack music, it was dope at the time. Just not what I care to listen to now. This has nothing to do with the quality. Some movies don't age well. Same shit.
The idea that "aging badly" doesn't exist is laughable. There is also just growing out of and evolving past things you loved when you were younger but all art , without question, is capable of aging badly.
Philaflava wrote:At the time, I thoroughly enjoyed 3rd Bass. They made good music, it just hasn't aged well and I don't find myself wanting to hear their music much these days. They didn't make wack music, it was dope at the time. Just not what I care to listen to now.
If you were almost 40 when 3rd Bass initially dropped their records you wouldn’t have liked it then either.
Philaflava wrote:At the time, I thoroughly enjoyed 3rd Bass. They made good music, it just hasn't aged well and I don't find myself wanting to hear their music much these days. They didn't make wack music, it was dope at the time. Just not what I care to listen to now.
If you were almost 40 when 3rd Bass initially dropped their records you wouldn’t have liked it then either.
Most Def Jam executives were probably close to that. I think you're overthinking this. Name a movie you loved growing up. Could be Mr. Mom or fucking Goonies. Good stuff. Great at the time and you probably watched them a lot, but today, you might not want to sit thru 2 hours of that shit.
Philaflava wrote:At the time, I thoroughly enjoyed 3rd Bass. They made good music, it just hasn't aged well and I don't find myself wanting to hear their music much these days. They didn't make wack music, it was dope at the time. Just not what I care to listen to now.
If you were almost 40 when 3rd Bass initially dropped their records you wouldn’t have liked it then either.
Most Def Jam executives were probably close to that. I think you're overthinking this. Name a movie you loved growing up. Could be Mr. Mom or fucking Goonies. Good stuff. Great at the time and you probably watched them a lot, but today, you might not want to sit thru 2 hours of that shit.
Any adult who saw The Goonies as a child and cannot like it in adulthood is dead inside.
That's just it, you can still like it. But maybe you wouldn't want to watch it if you were channel surfing. It might not command the same attention as it once did. If you flip on AMC or TNT and happen to see Goodfellas, odds are you'll watch it. Both movies are classics. That's the point I'm trying to make.
Office Space and Swingers I watched a lot. I have zero desire to watch either of them today. Doesn't mean they were shit movies at all.
goonies is for kids so that introduces a different issue. it's not just about you growing out of something, it's about the whole culture growing past it.
to give a music example, there are certain songs on the beatles "revolver" that still sound good today. then the next track might be hopelessly cornball.
Illmatic is the best album pictured, but I had to go with 93 on the strength of 36 Chambers and Doggystyle alone, two of the best rap albums ever made.
hustler wrote:if you don't know that spiders protect you from ghosts, then i really dont know what to tell you.
Philaflava wrote:At the time, I thoroughly enjoyed 3rd Bass. They made good music, it just hasn't aged well and I don't find myself wanting to hear their music much these days. They didn't make wack music, it was dope at the time. Just not what I care to listen to now.
If you were almost 40 when 3rd Bass initially dropped their records you wouldn’t have liked it then either.
Most Def Jam executives were probably close to that.
Executives give zero fucks about what they like. (Speaking of being dead inside.) They put out what sells. Bottom line. You think these fucks are playing 21 Savage at their catered dinner parties? Wow, bud.
stypeones wrote:Perfect example for me is something like The Lox- We Are The Streets
Album was very good when it came out. Now I cringe when I hear some of it. Just did not age well but it was dope when it dropped.
Swizz Beatz didn't age well at all. But to be fair, all that Ruff Ryder shit was just wack as fuck in general. Even the best DMX shit is cornball 90% of the time.
