Worst Hip-Hop Region

[Versive]

I don't understand why nobody bothered to point out to him that the Asian girls he posted were mediocre to ugly in comparison to the girls in the thread.

WRONG! Only a faggit like yoarself would say that, son. I'd love for 1, to see a picture of yoar nerdy face and 2, to see a picture of the fat slobs you be pulling. Of course you wont so it though... Almost every one of you wouldn't do it. I wonder why??? Oh I know why... hahahahahaha

I don't understand why nobody bothered to point out to him that the Asian girls he posted were mediocre to ugly in comparison to the girls in the thread.

Doesn't matter, bro. They're asian. They automatically >>>>>> everything else ,except maybe a perfectly mixed, all vinyl mixtape.

haha Yoar funny, Cockhead.

The bragging about fucking asian girls may be my favorite part of it all. So, so, so good.

Uhhhhhhhhh, its not called bragging when yoar just stating the truth, BRO. Come on, Cockhead...

And for the record, I've always gone out with American born Asian and Filipino women. No disrespect, but I'm not into the "fresh off the boat" type Asian and Filipino girls.

Carry on...

This might be Wicked's funniest post to date. Did he just start calling Blockhead 'Cockhead' or has that been going on for a while now?

[Blockhead]

No, he certainly coined that one. As much as he hates Jaz, his nickname game is strikingly similar.

[Thun]

Who from NYC is so great these days?

Not sure how much this is just you trying to start shit but the worst region for hip-hop in America (which is what I infer from "places that matter") is New York?

Really?


All I can say is that depending on your taste NY has a bunch of good artists, certainly enough that I struggle to see how they could be trailing LA, let alone Philly or Boston.

Roc Marciano, Elucid, Action Bronson, Nas, Raekwon, El-P, Homeboy Sandman, Monch, Shabazz Palaces (i feel like this counts as NY?), Vado, Das Racist, Tony Yayo, Sean Price, Max B, AG (according to you, no less), SCFB...

Not saying all of those are my favorite artists of all time, some of them I do not even like much but all have garnered some critical acclaim of late. Maybe I am wrong but show me these artists in Philly, Boston and LA that put NY to shame.

Ok.

By regions that matter I wasn't thinking so much of the poll items but of actual regions. - West, North East, South, and MidWest. Nobody gives a flying fuck about the Philly and Boston scenes in and of themselves including people who live there. Put them in with North East.

It's not that I don't think that lists are enlightening, but let's slow down here.

Nobody said that New York doesn't have many rappers that are decent to good. It's the largest city in America and the one with the longest tradition of rapping. No huge surprise that anyone can rattle off a list of people whose last album wasn't horrific.

But when it comes down to naming artists that have an original style and make impressive sounding music, the only ones that come to mind are:

Homeboy Sandman, Max B, AG, and Roc Marciano. These guys all have inimitable styles, you know exactly who it is three seconds into the sing, and what they'll do during that song will sound fresh and dope nearly every time. Elucid might fit into this category, I haven't decided yet.

Vado, Action Bronson, and Tony Yayo are pretty good, in my opinion. They all have songs I like and are obviously skilled rappers. I'm not sold on them being strong solo acts, though.

Raekwon, Monch, and Nas are veterans that are more or less rehashing their past rapping styles. They have taken some chances in terms of production and concepts, and I'm not mad at them, but are they really indicative of a thriving, innovative contemporary scene? Compare their energy on the mic to say, E-40 on his latest release. Haven't checked for new Hell Razah or Shabazz The Disciple album-length material. The songs I've heard have sounded identical to their past music. I'm not saying it doesn't have its place.

Das Racist make some of the faggotest music I've heard in the past decade (I've heard one song, the one with Homeboy Sandman, that is good without an asterisk). No idea what an SCFB is. Have only heard a handful of LoDeck songs, which were kind of cool.

Does El-P currently make music? Serious question, I have no idea. Breezely Brewin' has had what, like two songs surface in a half decade?

Shabazz Palaces is a Seattle act, by any reasonable definition.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAND that's the New York scene? New York City? Where hip hop was born? Where the vast majority of albums ever seriously considered classics were made? The largest city in America? The longest running tradition of rap music in the whole world? That's what it's come down to?

Surely you can see why some people might think rummaging through the NYC scene might not be worth it...

[907]

[quote="Blockhead"]I really just wanted one of these diatribes just for me.

[quote]
Wicked
To: Blockhead
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:28 pm
Subject: Oh Cockhead... *shaking head*
Cockhead wrote:
http://www.mental-health-matters.com/in ... cle&id=895

hahaha Yoar hilarious. But think about it, bro... If I really had Asbergers or any sort of mental issue, then how in the world have I always gotten women? And not just any women, but pretty damn good lookin women? And it's not like I just got 'em for a few weeks or months, cuz I've had three 2

[Versive]

Who from NYC is so great these days?

Not sure how much this is just you trying to start shit but the worst region for hip-hop in America (which is what I infer from "places that matter") is New York?

Really?


All I can say is that depending on your taste NY has a bunch of good artists, certainly enough that I struggle to see how they could be trailing LA, let alone Philly or Boston.

Roc Marciano, Elucid, Action Bronson, Nas, Raekwon, El-P, Homeboy Sandman, Monch, Shabazz Palaces (i feel like this counts as NY?), Vado, Das Racist, Tony Yayo, Sean Price, Max B, AG (according to you, no less), SCFB...

Not saying all of those are my favorite artists of all time, some of them I do not even like much but all have garnered some critical acclaim of late. Maybe I am wrong but show me these artists in Philly, Boston and LA that put NY to shame.

Ok.

By regions that matter I wasn't thinking so much of the poll items but of actual regions. - West, North East, South, and MidWest. Nobody gives a flying fuck about the Philly and Boston scenes in and of themselves including people who live there. Put them in with North East.

It's not that I don't think that lists are enlightening, but let's slow down here.

Nobody said that New York doesn't have many rappers that are decent to good. It's the largest city in America and the one with the longest tradition of rapping. No huge surprise that anyone can rattle off a list of people whose last album wasn't horrific.

But when it comes down to naming artists that have an original style and make impressive sounding music, the only ones that come to mind are:

Homeboy Sandman, Max B, AG, and Roc Marciano. These guys all have inimitable styles, you know exactly who it is three seconds into the sing, and what they'll do during that song will sound fresh and dope nearly every time. Elucid might fit into this category, I haven't decided yet.

Vado, Action Bronson, and Tony Yayo are pretty good, in my opinion. They all have songs I like and are obviously skilled rappers. I'm not sold on them being strong solo acts, though.

Raekwon, Monch, and Nas are veterans that are more or less rehashing their past rapping styles. They have taken some chances in terms of production and concepts, and I'm not mad at them, but are they really indicative of a thriving, innovative contemporary scene? Compare their energy on the mic to say, E-40 on his latest release. Haven't checked for new Hell Razah or Shabazz The Disciple album-length material. The songs I've heard have sounded identical to their past music. I'm not saying it doesn't have its place.

Das Racist make some of the faggotest music I've heard in the past decade (I've heard one song, the one with Homeboy Sandman, that is good without an asterisk). No idea what an SCFB is. Have only heard a handful of LoDeck songs, which were kind of cool.

Does El-P currently make music? Serious question, I have no idea. Breezely Brewin' has had what, like two songs surface in a half decade?

Shabazz Palaces is a Seattle act, by any reasonable definition.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAND that's the New York scene? New York City? Where hip hop was born? Where the vast majority of albums ever seriously considered classics were made? The largest city in America? The longest running tradition of rap music in the whole world? That's what it's come down to?

Surely you can see why some people might think rummaging through the NYC scene might not be worth it...

Are u surpised that by and large the more innovative NY rappers take more time between releases? Makes sense to me...

[Versive]

Have only heard a handful of LoDeck songs, which were kind of cool.

You need to sit down and listen to LoDeck and Omega One's 2008 album Postcards From The 3rd Rock all the way through. I know it's already 3 years old, so not the best representation of current NY hip-hop, but I still listen to this regularly - great record, not to be slept on.

[Mindbender Futurama]

NYC.

It's basically just a city of old faggots awkwardly trying to fit in with current trends while cockblocking younger artists.

[david111]

no option for 'the internet'?

[Thun]

no option for 'the internet'?

[COOLEHMAGAZINE]

By regions that matter I wasn't thinking so much of the poll items but of actual regions. - West, North East, South, and MidWest. Nobody gives a flying fuck about the Philly and Boston scenes in and of themselves including people who live there. Put them in with North East.

Okay. I was looking at it in terms of the poll items so this changes things. Agreed on the irrelevance of Philly and Boston. Still not sure how L.A. has a significantly better collection of local artists (or if you think they do). Maybe, but if so, I would like to see some names. No snark, seriously curious.

Nobody said that New York doesn't have many rappers that are decent to good. It's the largest city in America and the one with the longest tradition of rapping. No huge surprise that anyone can rattle off a list of people whose last album wasn't horrific.

Agreed but my list was not just of good rappers whose last albums were decent. If you want that list, I can make it. I would get to include cats like Saigon, Ortiz, Jay-Z, Cam'Ron, Vast Aire, Masai Bey, C-Rayz, Bigg Jus, Ghostface...

My list was pretty much artists with RECENT work that has at least been well-received.

Homeboy Sandman, Max B, AG, and Roc Marciano. These guys all have inimitable styles, you know exactly who it is three seconds into the sing, and what they'll do during that song will sound fresh and dope nearly every time. Elucid might fit into this category, I haven't decided yet.

Okay, I can get with that. I am converted as far as Elucid goes but, sure.

Vado, Action Bronson, and Tony Yayo are pretty good, in my opinion. They all have songs I like and are obviously skilled rappers. I'm not sold on them being strong solo acts, though.

Okay.

Raekwon, Monch, and Nas are veterans that are more or less rehashing their past rapping styles. They have taken some chances in terms of production and concepts, and I'm not mad at them, but are they really indicative of a thriving, innovative contemporary scene? Compare their energy on the mic to say, E-40 on his latest release.

Energy? Well, that is one thing, but I'll take any of their last albums over 40 water's. I do agree that their existence says as little about the contemporary New York scene as E-40's does about his.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAND that's the New York scene? New York City? Where hip hop was born? Where the vast majority of albums ever seriously considered classics were made? The largest city in America? The longest running tradition of rap music in the whole world? That's what it's come down to?

I am not trying to claim that NYC is experiencing some sort of rennaissance or is thriving. Just saying it's not the worst region for hip-hop to any extent.

Das Racist make some of the faggotest music I've heard in the past decade

I feel the same way about Lil' B. But I recognize that he is original and creative, I would say the same for Das Racist, even though I am not really a fan of theirs either.

Does El-P currently make music? Serious question, I have no idea.

Yes.

I also forgot to mention Mos Def, Aesop Rock and DOOM, by the way.

[zombie]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAND that's the New York scene? New York City? Where hip hop was born? Where the vast majority of albums ever seriously considered classics were made? The largest city in America? The longest running tradition of rap music in the whole world? That's what it's come down to?

I am not trying to claim that NYC is experiencing some sort of rennaissance or is thriving. Just saying it's not the worst region for hip-hop to any extent.

It's not like NYC is in the lead in this poll, bro.

It's fourth to last. I'm sure there are a few trolls that come to this site and voted for obvious good regions to piss people off.

[Mindbender Futurama]

the funny thing is, lots of NYC-originated MCs are no longer living there.
i thought it was common knowledge that Nas and MF DOOM lived in Atlanta now. and Aesop Rock moved west too, didn't he? Rob Sonic, help me out here brah.

what does that say about your hip hop region when you move out of it?

Joell Ortiz is the best rapper in NYC right now to me. Then Raekwon. All the new guys can't fuck with these guys to me. Not a single one of them.

NYC is having an identity crisis still. oh well, growing pains. does Jay-Z have to do it all for you guys every year? LULZ

[COOLEHMAGAZINE]

the funny thing is, lots of NYC-originated MCs are no longer living there.
i thought it was common knowledge that Nas and MF DOOM lived in Atlanta now. and Aesop Rock moved west too, didn't he? Rob Sonic, help me out here brah.

what does that say about your hip hop region when you move out of it?

Joell Ortiz is the best rapper in NYC right now to me. Then Raekwon. All the new guys can't fuck with these guys to me. Not a single one of them.

NYC is having an identity crisis still. oh well, growing pains. does Jay-Z have to do it all for you guys every year? LULZ

Roc Marciano is not even fucking with Joell Ortiz? If you say so...

As far as to the only part of your post that I can make heads or tails of, the fact that late in their careers those rappers have moved elsewhere does not change their artistic orientation (at least IMO).Roman Polanski is still an American director. Lee Perry is still a Jamiacan producer. Allen Iverson is still an American basketball player.

[Comedy Quaddafi]

Max B is the King of NY right now and they locked him up and threw away the key. Sad state of affairs.

I think the NY scene would have been better if everyone hadn't ran with the Neptunes era for all it was worth, after those early years in the 00's there hasn't been a distinctive sound really. The Blueprint came out but it didn't take long before the sped-up soul became a bit tedious.

They never get props for it, but at least G-Unit tried their best to carry the city on their back and set trends. 50, Banks, Yayo, they all make hard gangsta-rap with energetic beats and styles which are easily accessible, yet durable after multiple listens. Too bad everyone stopped caring.

Roman Polanski is still an American director.

No. Just no.

[Philaflava]

Action Bronson is better than Joell Ortiz now.

[ardamus]

Have only heard a handful of LoDeck songs, which were kind of cool.

You need to sit down and listen to LoDeck and Omega One's 2008 album Postcards From The 3rd Rock all the way through. I know it's already 3 years old, so not the best representation of current NY hip-hop, but I still listen to this regularly - great record, not to be slept on.

That album has gotten mentioned on the board before. Definitely some good work that didn't get its recognition.

[Rob Sonic]

the funny thing is, lots of NYC-originated MCs are no longer living there.

i thought it was common knowledge that Nas and MF DOOM lived in Atlanta now. and Aesop Rock moved west too, didn't he? Rob Sonic, help me out here brah.

what does that say about your hip hop region when you move out of it?

I take it your just kicking up dust to do it so I'll play,.

All those guys are New Yorkers clearly and the music they make sounds like it, no matter where they live.

As for why people leave; Rapping has nothing to do with quality of life, you can buy 9 bedroom houses in Atl and the like for the price of an shitty apartment here.

NY's scene sucks for many reasons, reasons Thun already mentioned, as well as the fact that all that anti NY shit out there in Rap started working on a mainstream level many years ago. Maybe if dudes here would stop making 10 mix tapes and make 2 albums, maybe it would change who knows?

[Thun]

Okay. I was looking at it in terms of the poll items so this changes things. Agreed on the irrelevance of Philly and Boston. Still not sure how L.A. has a significantly better collection of local artists (or if you think they do). Maybe, but if so, I would like to see some names. No snark, seriously curious.

Again, I was considering the whole of California against the whole of The Northeast. Got that?

Personally, I think Open Mike Eagle, Nocando, Earl, Tyler, Zeroh > fifty rappers that sound exactly like Saigon/Ortiz (and there are at least fifty in NYC alone). That's why rattling off lists doesn't matter to me - it says nothing about artists in a relative sense, there's no context to speak of.

But if it makes you feel better, sure, the Los Angeles area, which hasn't had anything resembling a popular unified scene consistently releasing quality material in over a decade, is not quite as enthralling as NYC. Unless of course, you take making beats into account.

West Coast vs. Northeast isn't even remotely close, though, in my opinion. It all hinges on how much you like Saigortiz, I think.

Agreed but my list was not just of good rappers whose last albums were decent.

Sure it was.

If you want that list, I can make it. I would get to include cats like ... Jay-Z, Cam'Ron, Vast Aire, Masai Bey, C-Rayz, Bigg Jus, Ghostface...

Not sure what type of point you were trying to make, because (and I think most people agree, actually) these albums are better and more interesting than the recent ones you cite as examples of NYC's unending supremacy (relax, the italicized part is sarcastic.)

My list was pretty much artists with RECENT work that has at least been well-received.

"At least been well received" beyond being a very depressing claim of success, means nothing, especially online, because all NYC rappers are treated with kid gloves and are at least well-received by a uniformly fanatical consensus building army. My word choice is hyperbolic but the sentiment is not false. Also, I'm not advocating that anyone attack a whole scene or punish people for geographic origin.

Energy? Well, that is one thing,

Well, not really. I didn't mean just literally how enthused they sound on the mic (hardly a minor point, tough) but the actual energy of the songs, the impression they leave. Subjective, but E-40 has been doing this forever and never for one second sounds like he's bored with his own shtick and I personally can't say that about the artists you've mentioned.

but I'll take any of their last albums over 40 water's. I do agree that their existence says as little about the contemporary New York scene as E-40's does about his.

I don't understand this point.

I am not trying to claim that NYC is experiencing some sort of rennaissance or is thriving. Just saying it's not the worst region for hip-hop to any extent.

More than likely, it's just pointless to look at NYC as a scene because people who listen to Maino will never listen to Elucid. And in that sens it is unfair perhaps to say that NYC is the "worst" of all the major scenes. But as a long time fan it is certainly the most disappointing. I doubt I'm alone in that sentiment.

I feel the same way about Lil' B. But I recognize that he is original and creative, I would say the same for Das Racist, even though I am not really a fan of theirs either.

See above, "depressing."

I also forgot to mention Mos Def, Aesop Rock and DOOM, by the way.

More lists!

[Versive]

what does that say about your hip hop region when you move out of it?

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[Gyangsta 4 Life]

Max B is the King of NY right now

[Fury's Flavour]

Wackanada

[COOLEHMAGAZINE]

Personally, I think Open Mike Eagle, Nocando, Earl, Tyler, Zeroh > fifty rappers that sound exactly like Saigon/Ortiz (and there are at least fifty in NYC alone). That's why rattling off lists doesn't matter to me - it says nothing about artists in a relative sense, there's no context to speak of.

Why you are comparing some of the best on the West Coast to Saigon sound-alikes, I don't know. Oh, I guess it's in order to show how you feel about lists...okay...are you are saying that the pool in NY is watered down by the amount of people doing middling music, and as such you prefer a scene with less flab?

West Coast vs. Northeast isn't even remotely close, though, in my opinion. It all hinges on how much you like Saigortiz, I think.

It could be but since I do not know who you are referring to in the West Coast it is difficult to understand who/what you are basing this on and why it all depends on Saigon/Ortiz. I suppose some sort of list would be required...and we all know where you stand on that.

Agreed but my list was not just of good rappers whose last albums were decent.

Sure it was.

Agree to disagree.

If you want that list, I can make it. I would get to include cats like ... Jay-Z, Cam'Ron, Vast Aire, Masai Bey, C-Rayz, Bigg Jus, Ghostface...

Not sure what type of point you were trying to make, because (and I think most people agree, actually) these albums are better and more interesting than the recent ones you cite as examples of NYC's unending supremacy (relax, the italicized part is sarcastic.)

We have different opinions of those artists work then. I obviously rate artists like Roc, Elucid, Action Bronson, Rae or Homeboy Sandman's recent work higher than anything Cam'Ron, Jay or Ghostface has done in a few years. Agree to disagree, I suppose.

My list was pretty much artists with RECENT work that has at least been well-received.

"At least been well received" beyond being a very depressing claim of success, means nothing, especially online, because all NYC rappers are treated with kid gloves and are at least well-received by a uniformly fanatical consensus building army. My word choice is hyperbolic but the sentiment is not false.

I am not sure I agree with this either. I can agree that that does happen for some artists but certainly not all on my list. If anything, it is more applicable to guys who have already been on majors like Ghostface or Saigon but does not apply at all to a bunch of the newer acts like Elucid, Action Bronson or Homeboy Sandman. As far as progressive underground shit, it does not apply at all, in fact, quite the opposite.

but I'll take any of their last albums over 40 water's. I do agree that their existence says as little about the contemporary New York scene as E-40's does about his.

I don't understand this point.

To boil it down: Nas' Nigger, Distant Relatives, HHID>>40's recent albums. You may dismiss this as merely "disappointing" as well, which would be understandable.

I am not trying to claim that NYC is experiencing some sort of rennaissance or is thriving. Just saying it's not the worst region for hip-hop to any extent.

More than likely, it's just pointless to look at NYC as a scene because people who listen to Maino will never listen to Elucid. And in that sens it is unfair perhaps to say that NYC is the "worst" of all the major scenes. But as a long time fan it is certainly the most disappointing. I doubt I'm alone in that sentiment.

If the poll had said "worst scene", as in community, and artistic cohesion, we would not be having this conversation. NYC is probably ranked pretty poorly by that metric. Anyone doing anything good is pretty much doing so by themselves and is likely ignored by the local fans of other good artists.

Nor would I have debated the descriptor of "most disappointing" since I can understand how one could feel that way. If the poll was asking which region was most disappointing, I am sure NYC would have won in a landslide. Personally, I am not disappointed by the rap music coming out of NYC at all right now, but perhaps I wasn't brought up in it as others may have been.

I am often disappointed in the scene; the glacial pace of releasing music by some of the better acts, the lack of great shows or poor attendance of said shows, the lack of the media coverage, and some talented artists poor decisions. But lately NYC gives me 1-3 genuinely GREAT albums a year and some really good stuff to go with it, so I'm not mad at that.

I also forgot to mention Mos Def, Aesop Rock and DOOM, by the way.

More lists!

[/quote]


I am not proposing that the longest list, "wins". But on some level I assume I should make it clear who I am talking about, since the question is inherently comparative. I am not sure how one effectively discusses a subject like "best region in rap" without, to some extent, involving "lists". It's a bit like debating what NFL division is the strongest without listing any of the teams or players. Perhaps it can be done, I just have no idea how. Above my pay grade, most likely.

[step one]

the funny thing is, lots of NYC-originated MCs are no longer living there.
i thought it was common knowledge that Nas and MF DOOM lived in Atlanta now. and Aesop Rock moved west too, didn't he? Rob Sonic, help me out here brah.

what does that say about your hip hop region when you move out of it?

it says 'Ive got a record deal and talent so I can relocate without it having a detrimental effect on my career'.
You on the other hand, without as your crutch, are fucked

Joell Ortiz is the best rapper in NYC right now to me. Then Raekwon. All the new guys can't fuck with these guys to me. Not a single one of them.

Joell Ortiz isnt even the best rapper in Brooklyn, let alone New York. Dude takes corny to a whole 'nother level.

[sleazy_j]

wherever Conspiracy goes.

[Conspiracy]

New England.

I never liked much Boston shit. (if I know my american geography right.)
Almighty RSO, benzino (Source drama...!!!), does this region have Sam Adams?!?! whoa- white as a premium plus salted cracker....
and I don't like esoteric (no offense to anyone who likes him, but he is kinda 'talib kweli' to me....whiney and over-non important?)

Canada has wack young, loud, weak, silly, rude, white and black rappers.
all following all you americans, and making their own scene up here. similar and different than the american business design model of corporate and illegal entertainment entrepreneurialship.

basically same as ANY OTHER SCENE THAT -COPIED- NYC HIPHOP BUSINESS VENTURES... (shout out bronx!)

but anyone that could dis southern music, IS NOT A PARTY PLAYER. period
- on The Most High,Timbaland , Missy Elliott, Rick Ross, Ludacris, Trina, Trick Daddy, Lil Wayne, Bow Wow, Jermaine Dupris, Juvenile, Scarface, Mystikal, Big Boi, T.I., 8Ball and MJG, and lots other new guys (Yelawolf -a country eminem/bizzybone?, Mac Miller -rap justin bieber-type sorta) make THE WHOLE COMMERCIAL WORLD RUN COMPLETELY AND FUNCTIONALLY on schedule and the club/radio scene would be non-living if those southern artists did not release the music that they have been doing.

shout out Ludacris,Lil Wayne, Rick Ross, and Bow Wow (and Andre 3000*)


NYC has lotsa shitty UGLY non-'the standard' rap artists that have been making the internet and industry flooded with elementary level freestyle MILLION DOLLAR QUALITY studio mix-tapes and record label albums that are only good for 2 or 5 songs (other than those near-perfect, or PERFECT classic releases...not to dis everything so overgeneralizationally)
I could really probably name 150 artists with singles or albums THAT ALL SOUND LIKE NONSENSICAL WORTHLESSNESS. but not to cause beef, or condescend on new artists from another generation and scene and crowd/group, I won't actually name all those rappers. BUT look at the wretched, horrid unappealing shit, and you know who I'm talking about.

enough on that issue. until it gets better or worse.


Philly and Jersey will never get hated by Conspiracy, ever. word to Redman and QuestLOVE (and Cassidy)


keep hating the haters and loving the lovers. justice is a balanced scale

[zombie]

LAWL. South is not good bro. You named maybe two artists that I like. Deal with it.

Thanks for allowing me to keep hating tho~