Pete Rock Loses Mind on Lupe

Req · Post by **Req** » Fri May 25, 2012 1:00 pm

B. Ware tha Siniq wrote:Anybody else feel like Lupe was heavily trying to set Pete up for a lawsuit stating that T.R.O.Y. had never been cleared.

I feel like I might be reading you wrong here, but I'm certain Tom Scott is aware of the song and would've sued him a long time ago if there was a problem. I'm sure Lupe knows that too. The point he was making was that PR never bothered to clear it with Tom Scott beforehand, so why should he have to with PR. Unless you're referring to something else?

Also, as delusional as Lupe is, his "I feel like I'm the greatest of all time" is him quoting one of PR's tweets - http://www.egotripland.com/pete-rock-tw ... oy-remake/ (halfway down the list)

The ILLatino · Post by **The ILLatino** » Fri May 25, 2012 2:45 pm

Pete Rock at some point implied that Tom Scott was cool with it, way back when.

Mindbender Futurama · Post by **Mindbender Futurama** » Fri May 25, 2012 2:59 pm

Pete Rock IS one of the greatest hip hop producers of all-time, though.

Lupe Fiasco's rap? Not so much.

elohim · Post by **elohim** » Fri May 25, 2012 3:10 pm

When T Roy died, me AC wicked and Pete Rock was like let's grab Tom Scott!

Employee · Post by **Employee** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:19 pm

http://www.akilaworksongs.com/press/pet ... ay2012.pdf

Pete Rock wrote:Itגs true that Lupe Fiascoגs representative from Atlantic Records contacted me last fall and he did so while I was in mourning over the sudden death of my cousin Heavy D. I gave the representative a conditional גyesג to use T.R.O.Y. for Lupeגs album but only based on the condition that I be involved on the project. Itגs what I always say when approached by people who want to use that particular song. I was never contacted again. At no point was there any follow up from Atlantic Records. Now, the story gets twisted and itגs being said that I said גyes.ג The part about my conditions has been left out to make me seem like Iגm a hypocrite. When I heard about the song again, it was done, completed, and playing on the radioג¦and that was Monday night.

Itגs true that people have made T.R.O.Y. over. I canגt control whatגs done with my work after itגs already out there but I can control who gets my blessings. Those who involve me and respect me in the process, get my blessings. Those who work behind my back ג but all the while putting up a front like Iגm down with it ג donגt.
Iגm flattered that they wanted to remake my song and that they respect it for the classic that it is. I just think they should have talked to Atlantic Records to make sure things were done right. The biggest violation is from Atlantic Records but what can you expect? Labels are corporations and their whole point is to sell records. If they respect the artist in the process that would be nice, but theyגre not required. For as political as Lupe as, I expected him to know that and to have hopefully made them more accountable. Iגm surprised that heגs siding with the corporation on this.

Technically, there was no crime committed with the release of Lupeגs version of my song. Technically, the song can be out there but Iגm not talking about legalities. Iגm asking: Whereגs the respect for the code among artists?

No ego, but I know my place in this game. Iגm recognized as a legend and I accept that. But most of all, Iגm a grown man. The love and admiration that people have for me as a producer and as a man of honor has been non-stop, consistent for over 20 years. Thatגs based on something that canגt be touched. My music and my character stands for itself. T.R.O.Y was a career-defining song has gotten me invited to the White House. Itגs not just because people think the production is dope. Itגs also because of what the song stands for. I want my music to touch people but I donגt want to be walked over or lied on in the process.
I admit that my outburst on Monday night on Twitter was based on my reminiscing about Heav and Troy. I think about them every day. I apologize for being emotional about this. I had no intentions of hurting Lupeגs career. Thatגs not me. Iגm known for building up not breaking down careers. Moving forward, Iגm 100% in control and focused on whatגs good.

Mindbender Futurama · Fri May 25, 2012 11:04 pm

Employee wrote:http://www.akilaworksongs.com/press/pet ... ay2012.pdf

Pete Rock wrote:Itגs true that Lupe Fiascoגs representative from Atlantic Records contacted me last fall and he did so while I was in mourning over the sudden death of my cousin Heavy D. I gave the representative a conditional גyesג to use T.R.O.Y. for Lupeגs album but only based on the condition that I be involved on the project. Itגs what I always say when approached by people who want to use that particular song. I was never contacted again. At no point was there any follow up from Atlantic Records. Now, the story gets twisted and itגs being said that I said גyes.ג The part about my conditions has been left out to make me seem like Iגm a hypocrite. When I heard about the song again, it was done, completed, and playing on the radioג¦and that was Monday night.

Itגs true that people have made T.R.O.Y. over. I canגt control whatגs done with my work after itגs already out there but I can control who gets my blessings. Those who involve me and respect me in the process, get my blessings. Those who work behind my back ג but all the while putting up a front like Iגm down with it ג donגt.
Iגm flattered that they wanted to remake my song and that they respect it for the classic that it is. I just think they should have talked to Atlantic Records to make sure things were done right. The biggest violation is from Atlantic Records but what can you expect? Labels are corporations and their whole point is to sell records. If they respect the artist in the process that would be nice, but theyגre not required. For as political as Lupe as, I expected him to know that and to have hopefully made them more accountable. Iגm surprised that heגs siding with the corporation on this.

Technically, there was no crime committed with the release of Lupeגs version of my song. Technically, the song can be out there but Iגm not talking about legalities. Iגm asking: Whereגs the respect for the code among artists?

No ego, but I know my place in this game. Iגm recognized as a legend and I accept that. But most of all, Iגm a grown man. The love and admiration that people have for me as a producer and as a man of honor has been non-stop, consistent for over 20 years. Thatגs based on something that canגt be touched. My music and my character stands for itself. T.R.O.Y was a career-defining song has gotten me invited to the White House. Itגs not just because people think the production is dope. Itגs also because of what the song stands for. I want my music to touch people but I donגt want to be walked over or lied on in the process.
I admit that my outburst on Monday night on Twitter was based on my reminiscing about Heav and Troy. I think about them every day. I apologize for being emotional about this. I had no intentions of hurting Lupeגs career. Thatגs not me. Iגm known for building up not breaking down careers. Moving forward, Iגm 100% in control and focused on whatגs good.

Anything negative that comes of this fiasco, Lupe did it to himself.

peace to Pete Rock.

maclethal · Post by **maclethal** » Sat May 26, 2012 3:18 am

Let's try this again:

How can hip-hop be respected as a genre if covering/redoing songs is considered so blasphemous?

If someone remakes the "Daytona 500" beat and does a cool rendition of it, that is comparable to a COVER SONG in any other respected, and much more difficult to create, genre of music. When you cover a song, you use a lot of the same elements, and almost all of the same lyrics. Get it? You are playing a song that someone else wrote.

When people all jumped on Johnny Cash's dick in 2004, over the song "Hurt", he was redoing a Nine Inch Nails song. Some elements were different, but the lyrics were THE EXACT SAME. Only in hip-hop is that considered "biting" or "gay." If Lupe came out and spit "Memory Lane" in entirety, you guys would have a field day on him.

Leave it to hip-hop to be stuck at square one, still, in 2012, unable to fathom the idea of covering a song as an homage to another artist/song.

Leave it to hip-hop to base their approval of redoing/covering a song on whether or not the artist is accepted by the populous.

This genre of music would be a lot more interesting if it was treated like an actual genre of music.

DJ Primate · Post by **DJ Primate** » Sat May 26, 2012 3:39 am

The entire concept of hip hop is unconventional. That's what made it so exciting. To treat rap music the same as other genres would be a mistake. The rules are different.

I personally think rap music is more interesting as it is. Rappers are defined by their rhymes. Nas isn't famous because of his beautiful voice, it was his lyrics that put him on the map. Hip hop works that way. That's why "biting" is a taboo. When rappers pay homage to their idols, they do so by interpolation usually, incorporating it into their own work. Otherwise, what's the point of rapping?

Of course, this argument basically says the "TROY" remake is okay. I say it's no different from a random dude rapping over an existing instrumental. I just don't think it's very well done, and that Lupe shouldn't have stepped out of his boundaries like that. He's not good enough of a rapper to top the original, even if the original was rapped by CL Smooth. Lupe sucks. The songs sucks. The end.

Elmattic was basically an album of this kind of song, and it was fairly well received. Seems that people just hate Lupe. Fine with me.

ardamus · Post by **ardamus** » Sat May 26, 2012 9:30 am

maclethal wrote:Let's try this again:

How can hip-hop be respected as a genre if covering/redoing songs is considered so blasphemous?

If someone remakes the "Daytona 500" beat and does a cool rendition of it, that is comparable to a COVER SONG in any other respected, and much more difficult to create, genre of music. When you cover a song, you use a lot of the same elements, and almost all of the same lyrics. Get it? You are playing a song that someone else wrote.

When people all jumped on Johnny Cash's dick in 2004, over the song "Hurt", he was redoing a Nine Inch Nails song. Some elements were different, but the lyrics were THE EXACT SAME. Only in hip-hop is that considered "biting" or "gay." If Lupe came out and spit "Memory Lane" in entirety, you guys would have a field day on him.

Leave it to hip-hop to be stuck at square one, still, in 2012, unable to fathom the idea of covering a song as an homage to another artist/song.

Leave it to hip-hop to base their approval of redoing/covering a song on whether or not the artist is accepted by the populous.

This genre of music would be a lot more interesting if it was treated like an actual genre of music.

At this point, covers of hip hop songs are nothing new. Hell, Rage Against The Machine did a whole album of them. I see what you mean but I think its more so the situation. There's been covers of hip hop songs that no one tripped off of.

Lets separate the business and the personal part of this situation for both parties. On the business end, he was approached and he gave his particulars on what he wanted to give his blessings on the record. Lupe is saying his team contacted him and Pete Rock is saying some representatives approached him but when did they really actually speak before this all happened? The communication end of the business fucked up the shit. On the personal, I know if I'm mourning someone in my family that passed that's close to me, I'll be fucked up for a minute. I think anyone can understand that from Pete Rock. For Lupe, its odd that he keeps saying that his credibility kept getting damaged; like he took the outburst extra personal because you can tell he wants to stir away from what he did on his last album a little bit more. And he's actually try to pay homage to someone whom he respects. At the end of the day, it was poor communication with tempers flaring. And both of them have been known to go the fuck off when things aren't looking up for them.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Sat May 26, 2012 10:53 am

DJ Primate wrote:The entire concept of hip hop is unconventional. That's what made it so exciting. To treat rap music the same as other genres would be a mistake. The rules are different.

I personally think rap music is more interesting as it is. Rappers are defined by their rhymes. Nas isn't famous because of his beautiful voice, it was his lyrics that put him on the map. Hip hop works that way. That's why "biting" is a taboo. When rappers pay homage to their idols, they do so by interpolation usually, incorporating it into their own work. Otherwise, what's the point of rapping?

Of course, this argument basically says the "TROY" remake is okay. I say it's no different from a random dude rapping over an existing instrumental. I just don't think it's very well done, and that Lupe shouldn't have stepped out of his boundaries like that. He's not good enough of a rapper to top the original, even if the original was rapped by CL Smooth. Lupe sucks. The songs sucks. The end.

Elmattic was basically an album of this kind of song, and it was fairly well received. Seems that people just hate Lupe. Fine with me.

I don't think there a single sentence here that makes a lick of sense.

zombie · Post by **zombie** » Sat May 26, 2012 11:29 am

DJ Primate wrote:Lupe shouldn't have stepped out of his boundaries like that. He's not good enough of a rapper to top the original, even if the original was rapped by CL Smooth.

Pretty sure this is the type of moronic statement that Mac is referring to that is ruining the genre.

babarjunior · Post by **babarjunior** » Sat May 26, 2012 12:00 pm

there's a big difference between sampling and plagiarism

Mindbender Futurama · Sat May 26, 2012 12:23 pm

DJ Primate wrote:The entire concept of hip hop is unconventional. That's what made it so exciting. To treat rap music the same as other genres would be a mistake. The rules are different.

I personally think rap music is more interesting as it is. Rappers are defined by their rhymes. Nas isn't famous because of his beautiful voice, it was his lyrics that put him on the map. Hip hop works that way. That's why "biting" is a taboo. When rappers pay homage to their idols, they do so by interpolation usually, incorporating it into their own work. Otherwise, what's the point of rapping?

Of course, this argument basically says the "TROY" remake is okay. I say it's no different from a random dude rapping over an existing instrumental. I just don't think it's very well done, and that Lupe shouldn't have stepped out of his boundaries like that. He's not good enough of a rapper to top the original, even if the original was rapped by CL Smooth. Lupe sucks. The songs sucks. The end.

Elmattic was basically an album of this kind of song, and it was fairly well received. Seems that people just hate Lupe. Fine with me.

fully agree.

and I thought about bringing up Elzhi a few pages back, cause he's the PERFECT example. And yes, most people I know didn't think 'Elmatic' was blasphemy, because Elzhi did it so well, and paid homage and updated the classics without claiming to be above the songs or above Nas. There's a WAY, an ART, to doing covers, and any real artist knows how to do it.

Pete Rock already revealed why Lupe fucked up royally on this.

I gave the representative a conditional גyesג to use T.R.O.Y. for Lupeגs album but only based on the condition that I be involved on the project. Itגs what I always say when approached by people who want to use that particular song. I was never contacted again. At no point was there any follow up from Atlantic Records.

Lupe's sense of self-entitlement and inflated ego is what gets him in trouble, time and time again. Dude can rap good, but he can't think good, too often. And blaming this fuck up on the producers? Even more

DJ Primate · Post by **DJ Primate** » Sat May 26, 2012 1:15 pm

Thun wrote:
DJ Primate wrote:The entire concept of hip hop is unconventional. That's what made it so exciting. To treat rap music the same as other genres would be a mistake. The rules are different.

I personally think rap music is more interesting as it is. Rappers are defined by their rhymes. Nas isn't famous because of his beautiful voice, it was his lyrics that put him on the map. Hip hop works that way. That's why "biting" is a taboo. When rappers pay homage to their idols, they do so by interpolation usually, incorporating it into their own work. Otherwise, what's the point of rapping?

Of course, this argument basically says the "TROY" remake is okay. I say it's no different from a random dude rapping over an existing instrumental. I just don't think it's very well done, and that Lupe shouldn't have stepped out of his boundaries like that. He's not good enough of a rapper to top the original, even if the original was rapped by CL Smooth. Lupe sucks. The songs sucks. The end.

Elmattic was basically an album of this kind of song, and it was fairly well received. Seems that people just hate Lupe. Fine with me.
I don't think there a single sentence here that makes a lick of sense.

Yeah, I didn't really do a great job of putting my thoughts into words.

Here's a revised thought. People can make the music that they want. Some of it will be bad.

Employee · Post by **Employee** » Tue May 29, 2012 3:10 pm

sean · Post by **sean** » Tue May 29, 2012 4:23 pm

you're all tripping.
your hate for lupe or pete rock is dumb.
there were poor/weird decisions/statements made by both parties here.
but neither of them are more to blame than the other.

but the random fanboys trying to pick sides here are the dumbest involved.

fuck off, love y'all.

Gregg Popabitch · Post by **Gregg Popabitch** » Tue May 29, 2012 5:33 pm

this is why i don't try to pay attention to interviews and things of the like when it comes to musical artists anymore.

sean · Post by **sean** » Tue May 29, 2012 8:10 pm

post/sig

zombie · Post by **zombie** » Tue May 29, 2012 9:12 pm

sean wrote:you're all tripping.
your hate for lupe or pete rock is dumb.
there were poor/weird decisions/statements made by both parties here.
but neither of them are more to blame than the other.

but the random fanboys trying to pick sides here are the dumbest involved.

fuck off, love y'all.

no no.

let them.

reading this topic is comedy relief after stressful day of work.

B. Ware tha Siniq · Post by **B. Ware tha Siniq** » Tue May 29, 2012 9:23 pm

Req wrote:
B. Ware tha Siniq wrote:Anybody else feel like Lupe was heavily trying to set Pete up for a lawsuit stating that T.R.O.Y. had never been cleared.
I feel like I might be reading you wrong here, but I'm certain Tom Scott is aware of the song and would've sued him a long time ago if there was a problem. I'm sure Lupe knows that too. The point he was making was that PR never bothered to clear it with Tom Scott beforehand, so why should he have to with PR. Unless you're referring to something else?

Also, as delusional as Lupe is, his "I feel like I'm the greatest of all time" is him quoting one of PR's tweets - http://www.egotripland.com/pete-rock-tw ... oy-remake/ (halfway down the list)

I got you on the Lupe line. I didn't catch that when listening to him, glad he doesn't think that.

Regarding the sample clearance, I don't think he was talking about the Tom Scott sample. There are other samples in the song, as Lupe alludes to, and not all of them were cleared by Pete (or Pete's label) back in '92 or subsequently, which was allegedly why Lupe had to go through the whole process. I'm going off memory here, but I actually believe Lupe said that the label told him there were samples that couldn't be cleared.

Now we all know that the sample clearance game has gotten way more real with all the digital CSI shit record labels use now, so it's probably something small that wasn't easily detectable. I just think Lupe is generally talking real reckless in that interview.

B. Ware tha Siniq · Post by **B. Ware tha Siniq** » Tue May 29, 2012 9:26 pm

maclethal wrote: If Lupe came out and spit "Memory Lane" in entirety, you guys would have a field day on him.

You realize you're making a huge leap to assume that Lupe knows what "Memory Lane" is, and an even huger assumption that he knows the lyrics to it.

ardamus · Post by **ardamus** » Tue May 29, 2012 10:24 pm

sean wrote:you're all tripping.
your hate for lupe or pete rock is dumb.
there were poor/weird decisions/statements made by both parties here.
but neither of them are more to blame than the other.

but the random fanboys trying to pick sides here are the dumbest involved.

fuck off, love y'all.

i tried to say this earlier. you made it sound cooler.

Moolah · Post by **Moolah** » Wed May 30, 2012 4:23 am

ardamus wrote:
sean wrote:you're all tripping.
your hate for lupe or pete rock is dumb.
there were poor/weird decisions/statements made by both parties here.
but neither of them are more to blame than the other.

but the random fanboys trying to pick sides here are the dumbest involved.

fuck off, love y'all.
i tried to say this earlier. you made it sound cooler.

cantescapebreaks · Post by **cantescapebreaks** » Thu May 31, 2012 12:35 pm

One of the producers post on The Strut:

http://www.soulstrut.com/index.php/foru ... ead/73851/

"Yes, its a remake of T.R.O.Y, .... Yes, I did it. Me and my production partner DJ Simonsayz produced it.

It was something he wanted to do, and I thought his lyrics were cool. We did it with no samples, as per instruction, and it was pretty damn tough to pull off. I think we did a pretty good job. I did not know that Pete Rock would be so pissed..... Truth be told, I thought he was in the loop with it.. but no matter.

I certainly didn't intend to come out and shit on pete rock in any way. He's always been one of my biggest influences, and he's a hip hop legend. It feels kind of bad to have one of your idols come out and diss you. But I understand his perspective. I will say that the vast majority of kids I talk to have never heard the original, and maybe this will get them to go back and pay attention to the first record.

The legal issues with using the original made it pretty impossible from a modern major label perspective, My intent was to pay tribute in the best way I could and maybe make something cool and new, with an obvious homage to the original version.

I have tons of original beats, people that know me on here know that. Its not even the first time I've been asked to remake this track for someone. All in all I thought it came out pretty dope.

Maybe I shouldnt even be speaking on this, but there it is. Redoing it gave me a new appreciation for Pete's original production and how intricate and complicated it was. I dont blog and I'm not active on twitter, so I figured Id put this here.

Anyways, you can hate me now. I'm just trying to get over like the rest of yall though.

Peace,
B "

maclethal · Post by **maclethal** » Thu May 31, 2012 1:43 pm

Mindbender Futurama wrote:Pete Rock IS one of the greatest hip hop producers of all-time, though.

Lupe Fiasco's rap? Not so much.

As you do in many of your posts, you are trying to inject your opinion into this equation, as if it holds any water next to actual logic. There is no leather-bound book, written in golden ink, stating that Pete Rock has more privilege and credibility than Lupe does. That's ALL OPINION.

Lupe is allowed to apply hip-hop's fundamentals, precepts, principles, and rules, just like Pete Rock is. Fuck nepotism. Fuck opinion.

Lupe has a song called "He Said/She Said" about a kid growing up not knowing who is father is. To me in particular, it's a very touching, gripping song. I get more emotionally out of it than I do "T.R.O.Y." Personal opinion.

Now. If Pete Rock decided to randomly redo it, without asking, not only would you think it was amazing and justifiable, but apparently Pete Rock would think the same thing. Whether or not Lupe had issue with it is on Lupe. However, would Pete Rock have the right to do it? Would Lupe have the right to have issue with it? Just because you think Pete Rock is GOD, and Lupe is mediocre, doesn't change the weight of either side of the scale.

Is "T.R.O.Y." more important than "He Said/She Said"? You may be able to find millions of people who opine that it is, but it actually isn't. That's all based on each individual's personal connection with, and interpretation of, each respective song.

There are no special privileges. We either all play by the same rules, or this isn't a genre worth respecting or fighting for.

Sorry for the lengthy post.

Mo Cheeks · Post by **Mo Cheeks** » Thu May 31, 2012 10:22 pm

you guys should drink

Req · Post by **Req** » Thu May 31, 2012 10:44 pm

maclethal wrote:
Mindbender Futurama wrote:Pete Rock IS one of the greatest hip hop producers of all-time, though.

Lupe Fiasco's rap? Not so much.
As you do in many of your posts, you are trying to inject your opinion into this equation, as if it holds any water next to actual logic. There is no leather-bound book, written in golden ink, stating that Pete Rock has more privilege and credibility than Lupe does. That's ALL OPINION.

Lupe is allowed to apply hip-hop's fundamentals, precepts, principles, and rules, just like Pete Rock is. Fuck nepotism. Fuck opinion.

Lupe has a song called "He Said/She Said" about a kid growing up not knowing who is father is. To me in particular, it's a very touching, gripping song. I get more emotionally out of it than I do "T.R.O.Y." Personal opinion.

Now. If Pete Rock decided to randomly redo it, without asking, not only would you think it was amazing and justifiable, but apparently Pete Rock would think the same thing. Whether or not Lupe had issue with it is on Lupe. However, would Pete Rock have the right to do it? Would Lupe have the right to have issue with it? Just because you think Pete Rock is GOD, and Lupe is mediocre, doesn't change the weight of either side of the scale.

Is "T.R.O.Y." more important than "He Said/She Said"? You may be able to find millions of people who opine that it is, but it actually isn't. That's all based on each individual's personal connection with, and interpretation of, each respective song.

There are no special privileges. We either all play by the same rules, or this isn't a genre worth respecting or fighting for.

Sorry for the lengthy post.

your way outta line buddy and you're opinion sux

wheels · Post by **wheels** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:52 am

Mindbender Futurama wrote:
DJ Primate wrote:The entire concept of hip hop is unconventional. That's what made it so exciting. To treat rap music the same as other genres would be a mistake. The rules are different.

I personally think rap music is more interesting as it is. Rappers are defined by their rhymes. Nas isn't famous because of his beautiful voice, it was his lyrics that put him on the map. Hip hop works that way. That's why "biting" is a taboo. When rappers pay homage to their idols, they do so by interpolation usually, incorporating it into their own work. Otherwise, what's the point of rapping?

Of course, this argument basically says the "TROY" remake is okay. I say it's no different from a random dude rapping over an existing instrumental. I just don't think it's very well done, and that Lupe shouldn't have stepped out of his boundaries like that. He's not good enough of a rapper to top the original, even if the original was rapped by CL Smooth. Lupe sucks. The songs sucks. The end.

Elmattic was basically an album of this kind of song, and it was fairly well received. Seems that people just hate Lupe. Fine with me.
fully agree.

Thun wrote:
DJ Primate wrote:The entire concept of hip hop is unconventional. That's what made it so exciting. To treat rap music the same as other genres would be a mistake. The rules are different.

I personally think rap music is more interesting as it is. Rappers are defined by their rhymes. Nas isn't famous because of his beautiful voice, it was his lyrics that put him on the map. Hip hop works that way. That's why "biting" is a taboo. When rappers pay homage to their idols, they do so by interpolation usually, incorporating it into their own work. Otherwise, what's the point of rapping?

Of course, this argument basically says the "TROY" remake is okay. I say it's no different from a random dude rapping over an existing instrumental. I just don't think it's very well done, and that Lupe shouldn't have stepped out of his boundaries like that. He's not good enough of a rapper to top the original, even if the original was rapped by CL Smooth. Lupe sucks. The songs sucks. The end.

Elmattic was basically an album of this kind of song, and it was fairly well received. Seems that people just hate Lupe. Fine with me.
I don't think there a single sentence here that makes a lick of sense.

Classic

Sylissez · Post by **Sylissez** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:31 am

Req wrote:
maclethal wrote:
Mindbender Futurama wrote:Pete Rock IS one of the greatest hip hop producers of all-time, though.

Lupe Fiasco's rap? Not so much.
As you do in many of your posts, you are trying to inject your opinion into this equation, as if it holds any water next to actual logic. There is no leather-bound book, written in golden ink, stating that Pete Rock has more privilege and credibility than Lupe does. That's ALL OPINION.

Lupe is allowed to apply hip-hop's fundamentals, precepts, principles, and rules, just like Pete Rock is. Fuck nepotism. Fuck opinion.

Lupe has a song called "He Said/She Said" about a kid growing up not knowing who is father is. To me in particular, it's a very touching, gripping song. I get more emotionally out of it than I do "T.R.O.Y." Personal opinion.

Now. If Pete Rock decided to randomly redo it, without asking, not only would you think it was amazing and justifiable, but apparently Pete Rock would think the same thing. Whether or not Lupe had issue with it is on Lupe. However, would Pete Rock have the right to do it? Would Lupe have the right to have issue with it? Just because you think Pete Rock is GOD, and Lupe is mediocre, doesn't change the weight of either side of the scale.

Is "T.R.O.Y." more important than "He Said/She Said"? You may be able to find millions of people who opine that it is, but it actually isn't. That's all based on each individual's personal connection with, and interpretation of, each respective song.

There are no special privileges. We either all play by the same rules, or this isn't a genre worth respecting or fighting for.

Sorry for the lengthy post.
your way outta line buddy and you're opinion sux

Probably my favorite post in this thread.

Mindbender Futurama · Post by **Mindbender Futurama** » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:27 am

maclethal wrote:
Mindbender Futurama wrote:Pete Rock IS one of the greatest hip hop producers of all-time, though.

Lupe Fiasco's rap? Not so much.
As you do in many of your posts, you are trying to inject your opinion into this equation, as if it holds any water next to actual logic. There is no leather-bound book, written in golden ink, stating that Pete Rock has more privilege and credibility than Lupe does. That's ALL OPINION.

Lupe is allowed to apply hip-hop's fundamentals, precepts, principles, and rules, just like Pete Rock is. Fuck nepotism. Fuck opinion.

Lupe has a song called "He Said/She Said" about a kid growing up not knowing who is father is. To me in particular, it's a very touching, gripping song. I get more emotionally out of it than I do "T.R.O.Y." Personal opinion.

Now. If Pete Rock decided to randomly redo it, without asking, not only would you think it was amazing and justifiable, but apparently Pete Rock would think the same thing. Whether or not Lupe had issue with it is on Lupe. However, would Pete Rock have the right to do it? Would Lupe have the right to have issue with it? Just because you think Pete Rock is GOD, and Lupe is mediocre, doesn't change the weight of either side of the scale.

Is "T.R.O.Y." more important than "He Said/She Said"? You may be able to find millions of people who opine that it is, but it actually isn't. That's all based on each individual's personal connection with, and interpretation of, each respective song.

There are no special privileges. We either all play by the same rules, or this isn't a genre worth respecting or fighting for.

Sorry for the lengthy post.

don't apologize for sharing your thoughts. I read them all, I'm not illiterate and bitter on the internet, LOL. I digress. Respect. I can't disagree with you that what I said is opinion... but I would stand behind an argument that put Pete Rock in the possible "best producer ever" "opinion" WAAAY BEFORE I'd ever say Lupe Fiasco is the "best MC ever", even though I have a bunch of Lupe songs that I like, and when he's at his best, he's fucking unbelievable. That song 'All Black Everything' is ridiculoid. But I especially love 'American Terrorist'

.

I'm just old school, I guess. There have been countless "blasphemous" or shocking remakes and jack moves and style biters and whatever in hip hop... but I just think that "T.R.O.Y." is a sacred song that shouldn't be touched, unless you have Pete Rock's blessing. If you are signed to a label and have to go through those channels with stuff, then handle it... better than what eventually happened. Like I said, Lupe even mishandled the apology moment too because of his ego, and it's just all fucked up now. Pete Rock did mess up too, but as he revealed, I don't think he made the bigger mistake. Shit wasn't taken care of right.

I never take away from someone else's feeling of importance with a song. If Pete Rock remade that Lupe song and you didn't like it, you'd have every right to feel that way. I may not, even if I liked the song. But everything is subjective.

I still think some things are sacred. :kanyeshrug:

p.s. I think maclethal and mindbender are both fantastic!