A very serious question about Biggie

YouTube · Post by **Philaflava** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:10 am

Why is he r considered to be the G.O.A.T. by so many people? Yes, March 9th just passed and there are a slew of tribute tracks praising him as the G.O.A.T. but why? He was good and I'll admit Ready To Die is classic and I'm well aware many of you think Life After Death is classic too, but is that enough?

Two albums in and you get that kind of title? At the time he was the best but not the best ever, right? Explain to me why you think he is or isn't worthy of this title.

For me I just don't feel comfortable giving that kind of title to a person who rapped for 3 years in the spotlight at a very high level.

It can't be a comparison of catalogs that gives him this nod by so many. Don't KRS-ONE or Rakim have more classic tracks under their belt? Do people think Big was a better lyricist than Nas? If you took Nas from 92-96 and Biggie 92-96 would you really say Biggie was better?

And this isn't a comparison to Biggie vs. Nas, I'm just making an analogy because I'm really having a hard time seeing everyone call this dude the greatest of all-time.

Huldrich Bullsh!t · Post by **Huldrich Bullsh!t** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:14 am

i agree, he wouldnt be all time greatest if i made a list.

but i think lists are needless anyway

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:26 am

He's considered the best ever because he had street cred but never said anything bad about da witez, so upwardly mobile corporate crackaz can play his music without ever having to wince at it like they would with 'Pac.

YouTube · Post by **Philaflava** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:28 am

Thun wrote:He's considered the best ever because he had street cred but never said anything bad about da witez, so upwardly mobile corporate crackaz can play his music without ever having to wince at it like they would with 'Pac.

But 2Pac and the god Mickey Rourke were friends.

YouTube · Post by **Philaflava** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:30 am

Side note, if Ice Cube stopped rapping after 1995 he would be in a league of his own.

Nobody had the continous classics as he has.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:31 am

Philaflava wrote:
Thun wrote:He's considered the best ever because he had street cred but never said anything bad about da witez, so upwardly mobile corporate crackaz can play his music without ever having to wince at it like they would with 'Pac.
But 2Pac and the god Mickey Rourke were friends.

Okay ....

Comedy Quaddafi · Post by **Comedy Quaddafi** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:54 am

His songs are extremely durable and we never heard much bad material from him. His belief in himself is also very inspirational, Sky's The Limit and such is personal anthems. I don't think the race-argument is relevant, but it prolly wasn't serious either.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:54 am

HipHoppin wrote:kind of a side opinion, but after reading that Prodigy/Jay-Z thread I would consider Biggie a combination of the 2 as far as music-making skills

Kinda, sorta. The difference is that Biggie is much less of an artist than either of them. I don't think he had any input into the musical or recording process whatsoever.

None · Post by **None** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:59 am

Philaflava wrote:
Thun wrote:He's considered the best ever because he had street cred but never said anything bad about da witez, so upwardly mobile corporate crackaz can play his music without ever having to wince at it like they would with 'Pac.
But 2Pac and the god Mickey Rourke were friends.

GOD DAMNIT, I FORGOT THIS. 2PAC GOAT!

H.E. · Post by **H.E.** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:27 am

He died young.

The James Dean effect.

Voss · Post by **Voss** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:29 am

What you're saying is most likley common knowledge among most people here, Mr. Flava.

And I agree with you, he's far from the "G.O.A.T", especially since emcee's writing styles have evolved over the years since his death.

But there's no use in reasoning with those who are convinced Biggie or Pac or Pun or Big L or Mac Dre or Coolio...wait...are the "best ever" simply because they're dead. Some people just think that way.
No use fussin' about it.

But no, he wasn't.

drizzle · Post by **drizzle** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:33 am

Thun wrote:He's considered the best ever because he had street cred but never said anything bad about da witez, so upwardly mobile corporate crackaz can play his music without ever having to wince at it like they would with 'Pac.

upwardly mobile corporate crackaz like 2pac too though, he was mad controvesial but mad poetic yo.

Website · Post by **Random Sample** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:39 am

I dont think he is even in the top 5.

Voss · Post by **Voss** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:46 am

HipHoppin wrote:
Voss wrote: But there's no use in reasoning with those who are convinced Biggie or Pac or Pun or Big L or Mac Dre or Coolio...wait...are the "best ever" simply because they're dead.
coolio died?

Haha yeah sure.

AWAE · Post by **AWAE** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:55 am

ANU · Post by **ANU** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:57 am

Philaflava wrote: Two albums in and you get that kind of title? At the time he was the best but not the best ever, right? Explain to me why you think he is or isn't worthy of this title.

For me I just don't feel comfortable giving that kind of title to a person who rapped for 3 years in the spotlight at a very high level.

It's just that nobody has ever reach a level as high as his.

Philaflava wrote: Do people think Big was a better lyricist than Nas? If you took Nas from 92-96 and Biggie 92-96 would you really say Biggie was better?

Yes he was. I think they're very different lyricists.
Big was more straight-rap-down-to-earth-street-rap-hustle-clich

Blockhead · Post by **Blockhead** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:27 pm

it's cause putting dead rappers in your top 5 is easy and safe.
pun , biggie and big l were all dope but had they lived on they most likely would have fallen from grace just as much as every other rapper does.
i'm sure five years down the line, had they lived, they would have shit all over everything people loved about them.

Cash Rulz · Post by **Cash Rulz** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:47 pm

One simple answer:

He made shit sound good!!!!

He flossed better than anyone, he bragged better than anyone, he thugged better than anyone.

Was he the best lyrically? No. Technicall? No.

But the combination of voice and style put the nigga over the top.

Req · Post by **Req** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:50 pm

Easily one of the greatest rappers of all time to me. I have absolutely no problem with anyone that thinks he's the best. To me, critically, there is no best. Sometimes i wake up and I'm convinced its BDK, the next day it's Rakim or KRS and on most days it's Nas. I think there's a group of 10 or so rappers in my mind who most heads could make a decent argument as to why they'd be the GOAT and Biggie is definitely one of them.

Kojak · Post by **Kojak** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:04 pm

^^yeah, he put words together in ways that made shit simply sound cool as hell as plus he paired that with a cool voice and style. He wasn't the greatest lyricist but he was clever enough, he could come up with simple yet effective concepts and execute them well, you can put him amongst the greatest storytellers. To me there's no question he was at least the greatest rapper who died and a personal top 10. The one poster who wrote he was kind of a combination between what Jay Z is and what Prodigy is was kind of right.

Employee · Post by **Employee** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:07 pm

Media
+
Unflinching fanboy devotion
+
Age at time of death
+
Sean Combs's relentless pimpage of the man's corpse
=
A seemingly viable candidate for GOAT status.

Lid · Post by **Lid** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:36 pm

biggie = meh. only tops he's in is one of the most overrated

Stik Figa · Post by **Stik Figa** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:18 pm

Cash Rulz wrote:One simple answer:

He made shit sound good!!!!

He flossed better than anyone, he bragged better than anyone, he thugged better than anyone.

Was he the best lyrically? No. Technicall? No.

But the combination of voice and style put the nigga over the top.

Magneto · Post by **Magneto** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:00 pm

Four man factors, in order

1) Death at the height of success
2) P.Diddy and Canibus saying it
3) His output/material/talent
4) Influence he had over others who are considered greats (Jay, Jadakiss, Sigel) and also a slew of others who never amounted to nothing,

Blockhead · Post by **Blockhead** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:17 pm

HipHoppin wrote:
Lid wrote:biggie = meh. only tops he's in is one of the most overrated
hah, i can understand people saying biggie isn't their top 3 but "meh"?

and i dont know how people are saying he's not a good technical rapper, the kid was nice

word. same goes for jay z detractors. even if he's not your cup of tea there's no denying he (biggie and jay) was good at rapping.

mud · Post by **mud** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:19 pm

Magneto wrote:Canibus saying it

Lock thread.

Yohan · Post by **Yohan** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:26 pm

Another serious question about Biggie.

Who killed him?

Req · Post by **Req** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:54 pm

Magneto wrote:Four man factors, in order

1) His output/material/talent
2) Death at the height of success
3) Influence he had over others who are considered greats (Jay, Jadakiss, Sigel) and also a slew of others who never amounted to nothing,
4) P.Diddy and Canibus saying it

Lid · Post by **Lid** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:04 pm

Blockhead wrote:
HipHoppin wrote:
Lid wrote:biggie = meh. only tops he's in is one of the most overrated
hah, i can understand people saying biggie isn't their top 3 but "meh"?

and i dont know how people are saying he's not a good technical rapper, the kid was nice
word. same goes for jay z detractors. even if he's not your cup of tea there's no denying he (biggie and jay) was good at rapping.

both them niggas is meh. yeh they can 'rap good' its a bunch of niggas that rap good too. i aint say big was ass, he just isnt as nice to be called the damn GOAT. personally i dont reach for any big or jay so they are meh to me. but i will reach for the mobb deep

Magneto · Post by **Magneto** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:47 pm

Req wrote:
Magneto wrote:Four man factors, in order

1) His output/material/talent
2) Death at the height of success
3) Influence he had over others who are considered greats (Jay, Jadakiss, Sigel) and also a slew of others who never amounted to nothing,
4) P.Diddy and Canibus saying it

I disagree that the output is the main reason, because I know a lot of people say it, who couldn't recite one Biggie line if their life depended on it.

A very serious question about Biggie

A very serious question about Biggie

Re: A very serious question about Biggie