How many Ice Cube songs are better than Know The Ledge?

[Reggie]

Okay, I understand that this is your opinion, but since you have taken pains to "prove" your point of view, I figure I can take pains to show mine.

Unless you were out there during that era, when the gangster crews were getting turned out by Five Percenters and on some "yeah i shoot, rob, sell dope but i have knowledge of self " shit, then there isn't one thing in that song that makes it anything but a DOPE ASS BEAT that Rakim DESTROYED WITH HIS FLOW AND DELIVERY...Rakim was one of the first great lyricists, that song doesn't have any of those lyrics...

What exactly do you think is wrong with the lyrics?

Nah i get it though...proclaiming it the best song makes you feel like you were a part of something/an era/movement that you love.

now Death Certificate...that came out about two months before Juice Soundtrack if i remember right...cus an older friend slid me the album for my ninth birthday in nov...and Know The Ledge bumped "the choice is yours" from the #1 spot on YO MTV RAPS countdown and it was a big deal, cus the choice is yours had the longest #1 spot ever...that was january/feb 92

The Juice Soundtrack may have come out in early 92, but Know The Ledge definitely came out in 1991 on Don't Sweat the Technique. The mix on the Juice soundtrack is far better, though.
Know the Ledge was already a single before the movie came out, Casualties of War was on the B-side. I even had a cassingle of this, it was popular enough to warrant one I guess.

A Bird In The Hand actually says something...Know The Ledge sounded fresher back then...but A Bird In The Hand holds true to any young person 92-2010....

I won't pretend to know what holds true to young people today, but the song contains many references to politics at the time ("Jesse Jackson and Operation Push", the reference to George H. W. Bush at the end) so I find the statement a little suspect.

the lyrics still have meaning, the beat is one of the dopest EVER, and every rapper from LA to Hoboken studied cubes delivery/word play on that song and ran with it...even new york dudes stopped copying Rakims flow, and slowed their shit down, and made each line more structured...Cube took the old school Cali melodic flow, and added WORdS THAT ACTUALLY RHYMED TOGETHER...most of our favorite rappers from the next generation of emcees, took Kool G Raps multi's, Rakim's braggadacio, and Cubes poignancy/deliberate delivery

Uh...huh? When did everyone start copying Bird in the Hand? That wasn't even the most popular song on Death Certificate, and in fact I always forget about it until its mentioned. It's a good song, and I can't say what rappers in L.A. were doing, but Snoop Dogg and 2Pac don't rap like Cube does on Bird in the Hand, and I can say that dudes in Hoboken were definitely NOT copying that style. Naughty By Nature were big and Redman was about to blow, so where's the similarity?

Know The Ledge has one of the top beats all time, if not the hardest delivery ever top five

So you like the lyrics or you don't like the lyrics? You're being unclear.

[mud]

I like "Bird In The Hand." A lot. Always been impressed by the lyrics and the whole vibe of it.

However, there's one thing that it isn't - a jam. It's a record you throw on when you're lounging in deep contemplation. Or if you just happen to be driving really slowly through maybe your old neighborhood or some shit.

"Know The Ledge" is a real jam. That shit knocks.

Only in the confines your brain is "Bird In The Hand" so much better than "Know the Ledge." Comparing them is mostly pointless to begin with, but the vast majority of the time, an all out jam is going to beat a contemplative album cut.

Are you going to tell me that "I Am I Be" is definitively better than "Ain't No Half Steppin" next?

What you said is no different to Allan Smithee saying Keak the Sneak is better than Kool G Rap, you fucking clown.

[Moeses]

Okay, I understand that this is your opinion, but since you have taken pains to "prove" your point of view, I figure I can take pains to show mine.

What exactly do you think is wrong with the lyrics?

nothin, nothing special either

Nah i get it though...proclaiming it the best song makes you feel like you were a part of something/an era/movement that you love.

it's a big ole jab

The Juice Soundtrack may have come out in early 92, but Know The Ledge definitely came out in 1991 on Don't Sweat the Technique. The mix on the Juice soundtrack is far better, though.
Know the Ledge was already a single before the movie came out, Casualties of War was on the B-side. I even had a cassingle of this, it was popular enough to warrant one I guess.

Yeah, know the ledge dropped prolly two months before the soundtrack, I didn't think anyone had it cept for dj's though, or if you taped it off the radio

I won't pretend to know what holds true to young people today, but the song contains many references to politics at the time ("Jesse Jackson and Operation Push", the reference to George H. W. Bush at the end) so I find the statement a little suspect.

I'll give you that...i do mean more like, the overall feeling of the song

Uh...huh? When did everyone start copying Bird in the Hand? That wasn't even the most popular song on Death Certificate, and in fact I always forget about it until its mentioned. It's a good song, and I can't say what rappers in L.A. were doing, but Snoop Dogg and 2Pac don't rap like Cube does on Bird in the Hand, and I can say that dudes in Hoboken were definitely NOT copying that style. Naughty By Nature were big and Redman was about to blow, so where's the similarity?

alright, that statement was half bullshit cus i'm just in a talk shit mood...but yeah, that album did influence most of our favorite emcees from the next generation... like i said, Cube, G Rap, Rakim

but naughty and redman we're already puttin it down in 91...i'm talkin 94-97 rapperss

Know The Ledge has one of the top beats all time, if not the hardest delivery ever top five

So you like the lyrics or you don't like the lyrics? You're being unclear.

hardest delivery, doesn't mean the lyrics were great



......
you make some good points


but nobodys explained to me how Know The Ledge is a better song

[EMCEE DARTH MALEK]

a bird in the hand is still relevant because of the theme, not because of specific references to comtemporary political figures
doesn't hurt that jesse jackson is still around or that there was a george bush in office until 2 yrs ago either

"an all out jam is going to beat a contemplative album cut"
yeah this is why the comparison shouldn't be stressed too much.

hey could someone upload the mix off the juice soundtrack (reggie says its better)
i just have the dont sweat the technique album version

[Reggie]

Even going to 94-97. which rappers really copied that "slow and low" flow of Ice Cube's? Not Biggie, not Nas, not 2Pac...I'm not taking shots here, I'm really thinking of artists/songs that emulated the slow, rhyming couplets of Bird In a Hand.

Personally, I'd say that Know the Ledge has more meaning today than Bird In a Hand, being that arrogance and feeling invincible is something all teenagers from all walks of life share. Selling drugs to make ends meet instead of being a political activist, that really seems like more of that early 90s pro-black rhetoric found on every rap album. That's not saying its insincere or doesn't represent some people, but how is it different in impact from Operation Snatchback or Live and Let Die?

[Moeses]

the comparison shouldn't be stressed too much.

i agree 100%...

and i'm still gonna talk shit about people overhyping know the ledge

[Reggie]

Yeah well it's not really an argument that can be won, it all comes down to your preference and perhaps which formative years you listened to the song(s).

It's just kind of funny to be because Bird In the Hand isn't one of the songs I think of instantly when I think of Ice Cube, though it is an ill song. Know the Ledge is one of the most pervasive, popular rap songs ever. However, that doesn't necessarily make it any "better."

[Thun]

Another really genius aspect of "Know The Ledge" is the way Rakim pauses at exactly the right moment in the beat, and the way certain samples come in or out at the opportune. It's just a really, really well thought out record.

[Moeses]

Even going to 94-97. which rappers really copied that "slow and low" flow of Ice Cube's? Not Biggie, not Nas, not 2Pac...I'm not taking shots here, I'm really thinking of artists/songs that emulated the slow, rhyming couplets of Bird In a Hand.

Personally, I'd say that Know the Ledge has more meaning today than Bird In a Hand, being that arrogance and feeling invincible is something all teenagers from all walks of life share. Selling drugs to make ends meet instead of being a political activist, that really seems like more of that early 90s pro-black rhetoric found on every rap album. That's not saying its insincere or doesn't represent some people, but how is it different in impact from Operation Snatchback or Live and Let Die?

for real? Biggie and Nas are HEAVILY "Death Certificate" influenced, they both said he was one of their favorite rappers

Pac already had an album out before Death Certificate...so that don't count again...

and Bird In The Hand wasn't political/pro-black like new york side of things, it was anger/frustration and more a "damn, i'm fucked" statement then anything else

and trust me when I say, that Know The Ledge doesn't relate more to youngsters these days...it's just another New York braggin tough guy
track

i don't know what live or let die or snatch back is, so you'll have to excuse me from that one


but Bird In The Hand, once again, says what every young man from that side of the tracks feels like

[Moeses]

Yeah well it's not really an argument that can be won, it all comes down to your preference and perhaps which formative years you listened to the song(s).

It's just kind of funny to be because Bird In the Hand isn't one of the songs I think of instantly when I think of Ice Cube, though it is an ill song. Know the Ledge is one of the most pervasive, popular rap songs ever. However, that doesn't necessarily make it any "better."

yeah? i think if you ask anybody who was listening to cube before Lethal Injection, the songs that will be mentioned are "bird in the hand" "no vaseline" "my summer vacation"

[Moeses]

Another really genius aspect of "Know The Ledge" is the way Rakim pauses at exactly the right moment in the beat, and the way certain samples come in or out at the opportune. It's just a really, really well thought out record.

like i said, Ra came with one of the dopest deliverys ever heard on that track

that and the beat are what makes it

but that's it...

[Thun]

Even going to 94-97. which rappers really copied that "slow and low" flow of Ice Cube's? Not Biggie, not Nas, not 2Pac...I'm not taking shots here, I'm really thinking of artists/songs that emulated the slow, rhyming couplets of Bird In a Hand.

Personally, I'd say that Know the Ledge has more meaning today than Bird In a Hand, being that arrogance and feeling invincible is something all teenagers from all walks of life share. Selling drugs to make ends meet instead of being a political activist, that really seems like more of that early 90s pro-black rhetoric found on every rap album. That's not saying its insincere or doesn't represent some people, but how is it different in impact from Operation Snatchback or Live and Let Die?

for real? Biggie and Nas are HEAVILY "Death Certificate" influenced, they both said he was one of their favorite rappers

Show one instance in which either Biggie or Nas named Ice Cube as a direct influence and not just a rapper whose work they admired.

And then show us how exactly that influence is evident in their music.

HINT: It isn't.

[Thun]

Another really genius aspect of "Know The Ledge" is the way Rakim pauses at exactly the right moment in the beat, and the way certain samples come in or out at the opportune. It's just a really, really well thought out record.

like i said, Ra came with one of the dopest deliverys ever heard on that track

that and the beat are what makes it

but that's it...

Yet you can't verbalize what you dislike about the lyrics. Why is that?

[mud]

Even going to 94-97. which rappers really copied that "slow and low" flow of Ice Cube's? Not Biggie, not Nas, not 2Pac...I'm not taking shots here, I'm really thinking of artists/songs that emulated the slow, rhyming couplets of Bird In a Hand.

Personally, I'd say that Know the Ledge has more meaning today than Bird In a Hand, being that arrogance and feeling invincible is something all teenagers from all walks of life share. Selling drugs to make ends meet instead of being a political activist, that really seems like more of that early 90s pro-black rhetoric found on every rap album. That's not saying its insincere or doesn't represent some people, but how is it different in impact from Operation Snatchback or Live and Let Die?

for real? Biggie and Nas are HEAVILY "Death Certificate" influenced, they both said he was one of their favorite rappers

Show one instance in which either Biggie or Nas named Ice Cube as a direct influence and not just a rapper whose work they admired.

And then show us how exactly that influence is evident in their music.

HINT: It isn't.

I'm sure their careers wouldn't be any different if NWA never came out...

[Y@k Bollocks]

I think 'We Had To Tear This Mothafucka Up' is as good.

[clark bent]

yeah? i think if you ask anybody who was listening to cube before Lethal Injection, the songs that will be mentioned are "bird in the hand" "no vaseline" "my summer vacation"

bird in the hand was/is a deep album cut that a small minority of hip-hop heads use to justify/advance their hip-hop cred

not saying it isnt a great song because it is but it definitely isnt getting mentioned in the top three ice cube songs by most people i know and i grew up in that era

[clark bent]

I think 'We Had To Tear This Mothafucka Up' is as good.

hardest song ever

[CHER1]

It was a good day.

[mud]

About time you pricks started backing me up.

[Employee]

Another really genius aspect of "Know The Ledge" is the way Rakim pauses at exactly the right moment in the beat, and the way certain samples come in or out at the opportune. It's just a really, really well thought out record.

like i said, Ra came with one of the dopest deliverys ever heard on that track

that and the beat are what makes it

but that's it...

Fagsauce.

Sip the juice cuz I got enough to go around,
And the thought takes place uptown
I grew up on the sidewalk where I learned street talk,
And then taught to hawk New York-
I go to Queens for queens to get the crew from Brooklyn,
Make money in Manhattan and never been tooken,
Go Uptown and the Bronx to boogie down,
Get strong on the Island, recoupe, and lay around.
Time to bulid my juice back up-
Props back up, suckers get smacked up
Don't doubt the clout, you know what I'm about
Knocking niggaz off, knocking niggaz out
Shaking em up, waking em up
Raking em up, breaking em up...
Standing on shaky grounds too close to the edge
Let's see if I know the ledge

Corners' trifling 'cause shorty's here
I get cock-d liffin' forty's of beer;
Here's a sip for the crew that's deceased,
If I get revenge, then they rest in peace.

Somebody's got to suffer, I just might spare one-
And give a brother a fair one!
Stay alert and on "p's".
And I do work with these- like Hercules,
Switch to southpaw, split your right jaw
'Cause I don't like y'all, I'm hype when night fall.
Smooth but I move like an army
Bulletproof down in case brothers try to bomb me,
Putting brothers to rest like Elliot ness
'Cause I don't like stress
Streets ain't a place for innocent bystanders to stand
Nutting's gonna stop the plan
I'll chill like Pacino, kill like DeNiro
Black Gambino, die like a hero
Living on shaky grounds too close to the edge
Let's see if I know the ledge!

Shells lay around on the battleground
Dead bodies are found throughout the town.
Tried to put shame in my game to make a name, I'm a
Put it on a bullet, put it in your brain.
Rip the block like a buckshot,
Who cares where it goes, just keep the casket closed,
No remorse when a life is lost
I paid my dues- paid the cost!
...And my pockets are still fat,
Wherever I'm at, I get the welcome mat.
Even if my crew steep with one deep
I attract attention, people like to peep
So come say hi to the badguy
Don't say goodbye, I don't plan to die!
'Cause I get loose and I got troops
And crazy juice!
In control of many like Ayatollah Khomeini
Hang out wit Smith and Wesson, don't try to play me.
I'm at war alot, like Anwar Sadat..
But no warning shot, my gun is warm alot.
When I cook beef, the smoke will never clear,
Areas in fear but this here's a fear!
Living life too close to the edge
Hoping that I know the ledge....

A brand new morn, no time to yawn
Shower's on, power's on
Late for school, I catch the train
Girls sip "Cristal" and whisper my name
I push up like an exercise,
Check the intellect and inspect the thighs
Select the best one, pull her to the side
Keep her occupied for the rest of the ride
Read my resume she's know I'm 'ready cool
Just meet me after school,
We can moan and groan until your mom come home ,
And you be calling me Al "dope" Capone.
Sweatin' me, she didn't want to let me loose-
Come get me, that's if you want to sip the juice
Cause the streets await me, so I take my gun off safety
Cause alot of niggaz hate me
Coming out of the building, they set me up
Sprayed wit automatics, they wet me up
In a puddle of blood, I lay close to the edge
I guess I didn't know the ledge.....

Those bolded portions are sick as fuck.

[Reggie]

for real? Biggie and Nas are HEAVILY "Death Certificate" influenced, they both said he was one of their favorite rappers

I don't doubt that for a second. But we're not talking about the album, or the rapper, but one very unique song. If you had said that they were directly influenced by Color Blind, then I might have agreed--another reasonably slow and low song where the wordplay is a bit more intricate. But Bird In the Hand is really unique, almost (dare I say it) spoken word poetry in how direct it is and in its heavy use of puns.

Pac already had an album out before Death Certificate...so that don't count again...

Yeah but his work after that could still be influenced.

and Bird In The Hand wasn't political/pro-black like new york side of things, it was anger/frustration and more a "damn, i'm fucked" statement then anything else

Uhh...Bird In the Hand is one of the most directly political songs of that time. One of its most stark qualities is that Ice Cube doesn't lash out at generalities but specifically mentions and attacks social service programs and government instutitions.

"Now I pay taxes that you never give me back.
What about diapers, bottles, and Similac?"

"Or should I just wait for help from Bush?
Or Jesse Jackson and operation P.U.S.H.?"

"I'm never gettin' love again.
But blacks are too fucking broke to Republican.
Now I remember I used to be cool,
Till I stop filling out my W2."

I mean, the very title of the song is a political statement: it is better to sell drugs and make the money you need today than to wait for welfare programs to bail you out of an already corrupt system. That about sums it up. This is no mere, "struggle to survive" song, but a detailed synopsis.

and trust me when I say, that Know The Ledge doesn't relate more to youngsters these days...it's just another New York braggin tough guy
track

I think this is the meat of the thing here, it's a Fuck New York thing from way back when the coastal beef was relevant. I'm not going to tell you what your own experience is, but the soundtrack hit number 200 on the Billboard 200...not the R&B list, but the main list. So I'd have to think that a lot of heads were feeling it for more than the Teddy Riley track.
I'm sure I'm guilty of East Coast bias, as well, but when I stand at look at the facts of this song I am left with the impression that it is a much more pervasive and known song than Ice Cube's.