When it is time to call it quits?

[maclethal]

Music has been my only source of income for several years now.

I also have enough in savings to live off of, for at least a year, without any income.

Cats working corporate office jobs, or high-profit sales jobs, are not guaranteed anything more than rappers are. And the cool thing is, Icon can never be fired from being Icon.

As long as he keeps chipping away at it, and grinding it out, it will eventually pan out to his satisfaction. And who's to say he isn't satisfied right now?

We should make this thread about people who sacrificed pursuing their dreams and passions, for a false sense of security and stability at a boring ass, dead end job.

It's dangerous to think about how long it's going to last. I just bust my ass every day, and so far it has yielded satisfactory results. It gets bigger every year. We do cooler shit every year.

If you work your ass off, music isn't all that difficult to succeed in. Or at least make ends meet.

And just making ends meet at music, is superior to making a very comfortable amount of money selling medical equipment.

[Philaflava]

But this isn't about iCON and it isn't about corporate jobs. Maybe less than 20% of this forum has corporate jobs.

This is about have you as a rapper put together a game plan? At your stage in your career have you thought about the possibilities of putting the mic down if you have not achieved the levels of success you had anticipated or you can no longer do this given your finances?

This isn't if you aren't clocking 80K a year and putting 10-15% away in savings then you need to stop and get a real job. I genuinely want to know how you (the rapper) thinks about this stuff.

[PopeyeJones]

Cats working corporate office jobs, or high-profit sales jobs, are not guaranteed anything more than rappers are.

That's preposterous.

As long as he keeps chipping away at it, and grinding it out, it will eventually pan out to his satisfaction.

That's preposterous.

And who's to say he isn't satisfied right now?

He does: http://www.philaflava.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=120011

We should make this thread about people who sacrificed pursuing their dreams and passions, for a false sense of security and stability at a boring ass, dead end job.

You want a whole thread about the unsuccessful & unemployed rapper fantasy that all sources of income besides rapping are boring and dead end? You want everyone to stop what they're doing and co-sign this hollow and meager justification for your own choices? After we do this maybe we could have a thread about how people who find your talent lacking are just haters.

[iCONtheMicKing]

But this isn't about iCON and it isn't about corporate jobs. Maybe less than 20% of this forum has corporate jobs.

This is about have you as a rapper put together a game plan? At your stage in your career have you thought about the possibilities of putting the mic down if you have not achieved the levels of success you had anticipated or you can no longer do this given your finances?

This isn't if you aren't clocking 80K a year and putting 10-15% away in savings then you need to stop and get a real job. I genuinely want to know how you (the rapper) thinks about this stuff.

Plan B's are for people that believe they can't make Plan A work.

With that said if I ever felt the need to go to plan B I could just go back into IT. And prolly jump off of the roof of the building I'd work in before 40.

All the rappers you listed earlier have other viable skills. PackFM does graphic design. Cash is an admin. Etc etc. However (conjecture) I'd be surprised if any of them or most of the other members of the working class on this board are following this financial scheme you have laid out. Does this make them failures in your eyes as well?

I applaud maclethal's continued success as well.

[PopeyeJones]

I genuinely want to know how you (the rapper) thinks about this stuff.

Part of the problem (and what you're seeing in here) is that you're assuming that people have thought about this stuff. IMO the hokey platitudes that you're getting back is the extent to which a lot of these folks have considered these questions. Part of it is that being a realist and trying to make a sustained living from making music (more than breaking even for a year or three, which is a huge success story in itself) are somewhat mutually exclusive.

Plan B's are for people that believe they can't make Plan A work.

Plan B's are for people who aren't in suspended adolescence and have actually learned from repeated experience that there are unpredictabilities in life that cannot be surmounted purely on the strength of ego alone. LOL at working out various strategies to attain one's goals being a character flaw.

[iCONtheMicKing]

And who's to say he isn't satisfied right now?

He does: http://www.philaflava.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=120011

naw I said my girlfriend is psycho and my bank account was magically overdrafted while I'm in Germany and I wasn't sure what I was gonna do.

but then after that Me & Rich Medina killed it for like 450 people and I met new girls and made some money and now I'm chillin in Berlin...so yeah I'm satisfied right now.

Sorry for not updating you.

[PopeyeJones]

^^^

Glad to hear it.

[iCONtheMicKing]

Plan B's are for people that believe they can't make Plan A work.

Plan B's are for people who aren't in suspended adolescence and have actually learned from repeated experience that there are unpredictabilities in life that cannot be surmounted purely on the strength of ego alone. LOL at not working out various strategies to attain one's goals being a character flaw.

Naw I'm not saying having "various strategies" and/or income streams is a character flaw. I already said I do the jobs of several people for example I book shows for other rappers. While I hate doing that shit as well it's a task that orbits around what I'm actually trying to do and helps me spend the majority of my time working towards my goals.

What I meant was muhfuckas that are like "well I'm not gonna give everything I got to what I'm trying to do because I can always go work in telemarketing"

[ChewbaccaUncircumcised]

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sometimes you follow your heart

sometimes your heart cuts a fart

that's the cosmic shame

[HustleCrowe]

Gloss, why do you care so much?

just wondering



btw, excellent post Mac

[Philaflava]

Gloss, why do you care so much?

Because I didn't want to make another Nas. vs. Jay-Z thread.

[nobs]

i have personally come to the realization years ago that i WILL NOT make a living off of music. I started my own business and am doing really well for myself but continue to make music for fun (plus i know that a select few still care to hear what i make)

starting my own business has also become beneficial because now i don't have to ask anyone if i can leave town for a week to a month.

i am happy with where i am at...

i guess you can say i have given up. but more or less have just chosen a different path that lets me make music on my free time. i will continue to do so. because it makes me feel good and it is a release!

[nobs]

oh but i also really don't rap anymore so does making beats count?

am i welcome in this thread?

whatever

i am a nobody who is going to Germany tomorrow, maybe hang out with iCON for a little bit and watch him make out with girls he might not deserve from the other end of the bar...

[Dids]

Add me to the list of people somewhat perplexed as to why Jason keeps bringing up this topic. Yeah, it's a slightly interesting question- but why does one person who is for the most part on the outside looking in keep asking it? I'm not saying this to diss Gloss, but it does feel weird.

Yeah, there's something a bit sad about the guy in his mid 30s still running the perpetual hustle and never really living an adult life. But that guy doesn't make my life any worse, and if he's making interesting music- don't we as fans still benefit?

I wish some of the scorn that was directed at talented but struggling MCs was saved for the shit rappers that have fans.

[Philaflava]

Add me to the list of people somewhat perplexed as to why Jason keeps bringing up this topic.

Point to the last time I (myself) brought up this topic? I might have mentioned in the past about my own opinions but show me the thread where I asked this question to the rappers on this board. I think with each passing year this question becomes more an more a fair, honest and realistic one. While iCON might have helped bring this out of me again, the recent retiring of Supastition to Def Jux and its roster (save Aesop and a few others) have made me realize what are these people going to do post-rap.

[GM Dizzy Skillespie]

post-rap.

or

[Comedy Quaddafi]

And just making ends meet at music, is superior to making a very comfortable amount of money selling medical equipment.

because everyone wants to be a musician, right? The world definetly needs medical equipment more than underground rap.

I'm not a fan of your music at all, but if I was I'm pretty sure that attitude, in your whole post, would alienate me.

[Smitty]

Gloss, why do you care so much?

Because I didn't want to make another Nas. vs. Jay-Z thread.

, and, touche...

At this point, especially in the US, a messy divorce and/or a serious illness could bankrupt 99 % of the posters here, and their families for that matter.

Gone are the days of someone spending 20 or 30 years with one organization and retiring. Trends point to most adults needing night classes or absolute downtime (read: unemployment) for further education or training for the 3 or 4 long term gigs they will commit to over the course of their work lives.

What I'm getting at is, perhaps "security" is overrated.

The eternal question, for which Mac Lethal provided some good, if hokey, answers still remains. Are the folks out there slaving away at something that is rarely rewarding in any way (besides monetarily) happier than a couch surfing terminal teenager who just played to a hundred sweaty kids?

If said terminal teenager has weed in his pocket and a bittie to throw it in a few times a week, he might just believe he's living the dream.

[Smitty]

what are these people going to do post-rap.

A question for a question...

Is Vordul an unstable, homeless, drug-addicted rapper because he's a rapper, or because he's unstable?

The intelligent, hard-working, capable folks'll figure out where gainful employment will come from.

[HustleCrowe]

Gloss, why do you care so much?

Because I didn't want to make another Nas. vs. Jay-Z thread.

, and, touche...

At this point, especially in the US, a messy divorce and/or a serious illness could bankrupt 99 % of the posters here, and their families for that matter.

Gone are the days of someone spending 20 or 30 years with one organization and retiring. Trends point to most adults needing night classes or absolute downtime (read: unemployment) for further education or training for the 3 or 4 long term gigs they will commit to over the course of their work lives.

What I'm getting at is, perhaps "security" is overrated.

The eternal question, for which Mac Lethal provided some good, if hokey, answers still remains. Are the folks out there slaving away at something that is rarely rewarding in any way (besides monetarily) happier than a couch surfing terminal teenager who just played to a hundred sweaty kids?

If said terminal teenager has weed in his pocket and a bittie to throw it in a few times a week, he might just believe he's living the dream.

word to this, my pops for example has like 30 years experience in his job field & was laid off like 6 months back & is now working two shitty part time jobs that he is way over qualified for which makes him pretty angry at times.

Im going to pursue this music shit no matter what, I don't care how many haters I get on here, because for every hater or shit talker online there are 5 people who dig what Im doing, and shit Im still at the Mixtape level, I haven't graduated to the ALBUM league yet, soon though. Im still payin these dues, Pursuing a career in music is a huge sacrifice that comes with little reward at the beginning.

I don't ever see myself being some 9 to 5er who hates his dull cubicle existance, If I stop doing music, I might start training for MMA fights or someshit LOL...

[COOLEHMAGAZINE]

In the end, we will all be dead and gone. There is very little else that definitively matters.

[wheels]

Please start training MMA

[HustleCrowe]

Please start training MMA

na man, im trying to come in the MMA game on some Randy Couture shit, whoopin mafuckas asses when im 42 and shit.


RAP FOR NOW


SORRY

[Thun]

Whoa, hold up everybody!

Before we continue with this scintillating discussion, let's get a couple of things straight here, before anybody else is misled or gets confused:

1. To all rappers not named Rakim, Biggie, 2Pac, Chuck D, Eminem, Nas, or Jay-Z: YOUR ART IS NOT ETERNAL DESPITE YOUR BELIEF TO THE CONTRARY. Nobody, and I mean nobody - not a college professor, not an aging fan, not a tween, not a historian, not alien picking up terrestrial radio waves in his intergalactic space-jeep will give a fuck about your music. That goes for everyone here from Slug on down to Stoop Kid. Yeah, you might see your name pop up on some Last.Fm favorites list and you may even be invited to perform Scribble Jam revival show in Iceland in 2020 at your own expense, but your music will not live on as art - nobody will look to your music as being influential, innovative, or profound. If you believe otherwise, you're exactly the semi-literate idiot we've always believed you to be. Any enduring theme or substantive quip that can be attributed to rap music can be found in the works of the aforementioned seven rappers - you're culturally disposable.

Thus, any claim that putting in years of effort into da game bears some kind of transcendental reward in the future is bullshit - whether you did it for a Def Jam carton of Newports and Puma sweats or you spent your parent's money on a "self-financed" tour - you toiled and paid just like the rest of us. Welcome back to earth, champion. Fuck the "visceral thrill" you get from sleeping on couches and selling your debut 12" to Belgian debutantes.

and

2. Contrary to popular belief (among blue collar idiots and trust fund faggots), a white collar job in America is not exactly hellish damnation. Yeah, the flourescent lighting is unflattering, mangers are dipshits, the X-Mas parties are awkward, the Poland Spring delivery guy operates on his own schedule, etc. Big fucking deal. You get to leave at 5 or 6pm, generally, so the comparisons to Auschwitz are a little far-fetched, don't ya think?

There is not one reasonably successful white collar worker here who envies the life of a fucking indieground rapper for one second. Believe that. There's a reason why people protested, begged, rioted, etc. for an 8 hour work day and safe working conditions characteristic of the office work that is just so maligned on this forum full of trillionaire high school dropouts - it's a desirable and reasonable way to earn your keep. And earning your own keep is ALWAYS better than living with roommates or your parents or crashing on an ottoman in Luxembourg or sleeping on a construction site in Time's Square.

Carry on.

[PackFM]

this topic comes up in one form or another frequently 'round these parts

advice to rappers: invest in land/properties, not being homeless should always be your main priority.
and if you have kids, get life insurance, its not that expensive, you can get a policy for like $50 a month.

you don't have to sell 50,000 records to secure your future

[COOLEHMAGAZINE]

Whoa, hold up everybody!

Before we continue with this scintillating discussion, let's get a couple of things straight here, before anybody else is misled or gets confused:

1. To all rappers not named Rakim, Biggie, 2Pac, Chuck D, Eminem, Nas, or Jay-Z: YOUR ART IS NOT ETERNAL DESPITE YOUR BELIEF TO THE CONTRARY. Nobody, and I mean nobody - not a college professor, not an aging fan, not a tween, not a historian, not alien picking up terrestrial radio waves in his intergalactic space-jeep will give a fuck about your music. That goes for everyone here from Slug on down to Stoop Kid. Yeah, you might see your name pop up on some Last.Fm favorites list and you may even be invited to perform Scribble Jam revival show in Iceland in 2020 at your own expense, but your music will not live on as art - nobody will look to your music as being influential, innovative, or profound. If you believe otherwise, you're exactly the semi-literate idiot we've always believed you to be. Any enduring theme or substantive quip that can be attributed to rap music can be found in the works of the aforementioned seven rappers - you're culturally disposable.

Thus, any claim that putting in years of effort into da game bears some kind of transcendental reward in the future is bullshit - whether you did it for a Def Jam carton of Newports and Puma sweats or you spent your parent's money on a "self-financed" tour - you toiled and paid just like the rest of us. Welcome back to earth, champion. Fuck the "visceral thrill" you get from sleeping on couches and selling your debut 12" to Belgian debutantes.

and

2. Contrary to popular belief (among blue collar idiots and trust fund faggots), a white collar job in America is not exactly hellish damnation. Yeah, the flourescent lighting is unflattering, mangers are dipshits, the X-Mas parties are awkward, the Poland Spring delivery guy operates on his own schedule, etc. Big fucking deal. You get to leave at 5 or 6pm, generally, so the comparisons to Auschwitz are a little far-fetched, don't ya think?

There is not one reasonably successful white collar worker here who envies the life of a fucking indieground rapper for one second. Believe that. There's a reason why people protested, begged, rioted, etc. for an 8 hour work day and safe working conditions characteristic of the office work that is just so maligned on this forum full of trillionaire high school dropouts - it's a desirable and reasonable way to earn your keep. And earning your own keep is ALWAYS better than living with roommates or your parents or crashing on an ottoman in Luxembourg or sleeping on a construction site in Time's Square.

Carry on.

If only the quality of one's existence could somehow be quantified and laid out in a spreadsheet

[Thun]

But whatever you do, don't ever get a .... GASP! ....job ....

[Thun]

Whoa, hold up everybody!

Before we continue with this scintillating discussion, let's get a couple of things straight here, before anybody else is misled or gets confused:

1. To all rappers not named Rakim, Biggie, 2Pac, Chuck D, Eminem, Nas, or Jay-Z: YOUR ART IS NOT ETERNAL DESPITE YOUR BELIEF TO THE CONTRARY. Nobody, and I mean nobody - not a college professor, not an aging fan, not a tween, not a historian, not alien picking up terrestrial radio waves in his intergalactic space-jeep will give a fuck about your music. That goes for everyone here from Slug on down to Stoop Kid. Yeah, you might see your name pop up on some Last.Fm favorites list and you may even be invited to perform Scribble Jam revival show in Iceland in 2020 at your own expense, but your music will not live on as art - nobody will look to your music as being influential, innovative, or profound. If you believe otherwise, you're exactly the semi-literate idiot we've always believed you to be. Any enduring theme or substantive quip that can be attributed to rap music can be found in the works of the aforementioned seven rappers - you're culturally disposable.

Thus, any claim that putting in years of effort into da game bears some kind of transcendental reward in the future is bullshit - whether you did it for a Def Jam carton of Newports and Puma sweats or you spent your parent's money on a "self-financed" tour - you toiled and paid just like the rest of us. Welcome back to earth, champion. Fuck the "visceral thrill" you get from sleeping on couches and selling your debut 12" to Belgian debutantes.

and

2. Contrary to popular belief (among blue collar idiots and trust fund faggots), a white collar job in America is not exactly hellish damnation. Yeah, the flourescent lighting is unflattering, mangers are dipshits, the X-Mas parties are awkward, the Poland Spring delivery guy operates on his own schedule, etc. Big fucking deal. You get to leave at 5 or 6pm, generally, so the comparisons to Auschwitz are a little far-fetched, don't ya think?

There is not one reasonably successful white collar worker here who envies the life of a fucking indieground rapper for one second. Believe that. There's a reason why people protested, begged, rioted, etc. for an 8 hour work day and safe working conditions characteristic of the office work that is just so maligned on this forum full of trillionaire high school dropouts - it's a desirable and reasonable way to earn your keep. And earning your own keep is ALWAYS better than living with roommates or your parents or crashing on an ottoman in Luxembourg or sleeping on a construction site in Time's Square.

Carry on.

If only the quality of one's existence could somehow be quantified and laid out in a spreadsheet

Is that a Sage Francis freestyle, akh?

[COOLEHMAGAZINE]

Whoa, hold up everybody!

Before we continue with this scintillating discussion, let's get a couple of things straight here, before anybody else is misled or gets confused:

1. To all rappers not named Rakim, Biggie, 2Pac, Chuck D, Eminem, Nas, or Jay-Z: YOUR ART IS NOT ETERNAL DESPITE YOUR BELIEF TO THE CONTRARY. Nobody, and I mean nobody - not a college professor, not an aging fan, not a tween, not a historian, not alien picking up terrestrial radio waves in his intergalactic space-jeep will give a fuck about your music. That goes for everyone here from Slug on down to Stoop Kid. Yeah, you might see your name pop up on some Last.Fm favorites list and you may even be invited to perform Scribble Jam revival show in Iceland in 2020 at your own expense, but your music will not live on as art - nobody will look to your music as being influential, innovative, or profound. If you believe otherwise, you're exactly the semi-literate idiot we've always believed you to be. Any enduring theme or substantive quip that can be attributed to rap music can be found in the works of the aforementioned seven rappers - you're culturally disposable.

Thus, any claim that putting in years of effort into da game bears some kind of transcendental reward in the future is bullshit - whether you did it for a Def Jam carton of Newports and Puma sweats or you spent your parent's money on a "self-financed" tour - you toiled and paid just like the rest of us. Welcome back to earth, champion. Fuck the "visceral thrill" you get from sleeping on couches and selling your debut 12" to Belgian debutantes.

and

2. Contrary to popular belief (among blue collar idiots and trust fund faggots), a white collar job in America is not exactly hellish damnation. Yeah, the flourescent lighting is unflattering, mangers are dipshits, the X-Mas parties are awkward, the Poland Spring delivery guy operates on his own schedule, etc. Big fucking deal. You get to leave at 5 or 6pm, generally, so the comparisons to Auschwitz are a little far-fetched, don't ya think?

There is not one reasonably successful white collar worker here who envies the life of a fucking indieground rapper for one second. Believe that. There's a reason why people protested, begged, rioted, etc. for an 8 hour work day and safe working conditions characteristic of the office work that is just so maligned on this forum full of trillionaire high school dropouts - it's a desirable and reasonable way to earn your keep. And earning your own keep is ALWAYS better than living with roommates or your parents or crashing on an ottoman in Luxembourg or sleeping on a construction site in Time's Square.

Carry on.

If only the quality of one's existence could somehow be quantified and laid out in a spreadsheet

Michael Franti pre-Spearhead, post disposable-heroes yo!

[the brow]

Whoa, hold up everybody!

Before we continue with this scintillating discussion, let's get a couple of things straight here, before anybody else is misled or gets confused:

1. To all rappers not named Rakim, Biggie, 2Pac, Chuck D, Eminem, Nas, or Jay-Z: YOUR ART IS NOT ETERNAL DESPITE YOUR BELIEF TO THE CONTRARY. Nobody, and I mean nobody - not a college professor, not an aging fan, not a tween, not a historian, not alien picking up terrestrial radio waves in his intergalactic space-jeep will give a fuck about your music. That goes for everyone here from Slug on down to Stoop Kid. Yeah, you might see your name pop up on some Last.Fm favorites list and you may even be invited to perform Scribble Jam revival show in Iceland in 2020 at your own expense, but your music will not live on as art - nobody will look to your music as being influential, innovative, or profound. If you believe otherwise, you're exactly the semi-literate idiot we've always believed you to be. Any enduring theme or substantive quip that can be attributed to rap music can be found in the works of the aforementioned seven rappers - you're culturally disposable.

Thus, any claim that putting in years of effort into da game bears some kind of transcendental reward in the future is bullshit - whether you did it for a Def Jam carton of Newports and Puma sweats or you spent your parent's money on a "self-financed" tour - you toiled and paid just like the rest of us. Welcome back to earth, champion. Fuck the "visceral thrill" you get from sleeping on couches and selling your debut 12" to Belgian debutantes.

and

2. Contrary to popular belief (among blue collar idiots and trust fund faggots), a white collar job in America is not exactly hellish damnation. Yeah, the flourescent lighting is unflattering, mangers are dipshits, the X-Mas parties are awkward, the Poland Spring delivery guy operates on his own schedule, etc. Big fucking deal. You get to leave at 5 or 6pm, generally, so the comparisons to Auschwitz are a little far-fetched, don't ya think?

There is not one reasonably successful white collar worker here who envies the life of a fucking indieground rapper for one second. Believe that. There's a reason why people protested, begged, rioted, etc. for an 8 hour work day and safe working conditions characteristic of the office work that is just so maligned on this forum full of trillionaire high school dropouts - it's a desirable and reasonable way to earn your keep. And earning your own keep is ALWAYS better than living with roommates or your parents or crashing on an ottoman in Luxembourg or sleeping on a construction site in Time's Square.

Carry on.

If only the quality of one's existence could somehow be quantified and laid out in a spreadsheet

Your bank sends you one every month.