Biggie vs 2pac - who won lyrically?

[gusty wingers]

We could do a whole thread on whether "99% of your fans don't exist" is a good comeback or retarded bullshit.

meanwhile that's like literally the greatest diss ever delivered... that was straight fall on your ass father to son hilariousness... there isn't a leveling better than that line... he won the battle with one line... LL murked canibus... he basically fed into his own delusion and said 99 percent of those fans that you think exist... the bullshit that has your head so gassed that you think you can anchor a session with fucking Big Pun at the table... they don't exist... 99 percent of your delusional fanbase isn't real crackhead... LL absolutely destroyed Canibus... like lightwork... Canibus could have come back with ANYTHING... and that line instantly ended the battle forever... "I'm LL Cool J and you're who?"... not even close

Right, that's the prevailing narrative. But the counter-argument would of course be you can't quantify a zero sum by percentage.

That's so ridiculous... You don't think that LL knows you can't quantity a percentage for a number that is nonexistent?... It added to the hilarity of it... That is the greatest single diss line ever delivered... And again I think it is feeding into his delusion 99 percent of your fans (that you claim or think exist) do not... And mindbender... Nobody cares how many fans Canibus had at that time... He never was and never will be on the iconic level that LL was and always will be on... LL fucking CLOWNED Canibus

Example of how LL's line makes sense... "Yo I own 100 houses" (meanwhile I own one house) ... LL "99 percent of your houses don't exist"... That's the example of canibus's OBNOXIOUS ego and LL giving him the reality of it... That line roasted toasted and served him up on a baguette... Done

[Mindbender Futurama]

if you think that LL dud is the greatest battle line ever... thank you for your input, and you can leave the discussion now.

Seriously tho: LL Cool J was my fucking rap god for a good chunk of the 80's. I'm not some hater. But to say he won the battle vs. Canibus is to be a super fool. Canibus DESTROYED LL just like Dizaster DESTROYED Canibus. These were major milestones in the David Vs. Goliath history of battle rappers.

Sure, in the grand scheme of life, LL went from Hollis to Hollywood, is always on TV or in movies, counting fat royalty checks from NCIS, and going to random fancy dinners beside randos like Jennifer Love Hewitt and Andy Garcia, while Canibus is possibly struggling right now to gather the funds for his next album and eating Wendy's for dinner tonight. KANYESHRUG.

Canibus still has at least fifty punchlines or five songs on a level of cerebral creativity that James Todd Smith has NEVER IN HIS LONG AND MUSCULAR LIFE ascended to.

So there's that.

Tupac though. That guy didn't mince words.

[CarlosDelgothoes]

I have no idea where this 'LL won' shit came from. NOBODY was saying it back then, not even reel hiffhop heads because they despised Lickin Lips L at that point. Whereas Canibus was destroying every mixtape and collabo he stepped on, outshining everyone from Kurupt, Common & Ras Kass to Cam'ron, Big Pun and Redman. The whole 'Canibus sucked' shit is peak trendy revivalism and only started in 2001 when he dropped C True Hollywood Stories and became a parody of himself. Before that he was seen as the second coming of Rakim. The fucking Source had him interview Rakim under that very claim.

[stype_ones]

Slept on diss. The Bridge Wars were always seen as a KRS Vs Shan battle, but Poet had something to say.. The story is that Just Ice came to QB looking for Poet with a shotgun after this.

[Mindbender Futurama]

I have no idea where this 'LL won' shit came from. NOBODY was saying it back then, not even reel hiffhop heads because they despised Lickin Lips L at that point. Whereas Canibus was destroying every mixtape and collabo he stepped on, outshining everyone from Kurupt, Common & Ras Kass to Cam'ron, Big Pun and Redman. The whole 'Canibus sucked' shit is peak trendy revivalism and only started in 2001 when he dropped C True Hollywood Stories and became a parody of himself. Before that he was seen as the second coming of Rakim. The fucking Source had him interview Rakim under that very claim.

THOUGHTS OF A REAL HIP HOP HEAD.

EVERY WORD = SUPER CO-SIGNED.

Fuck this stupid bullshit where people let their petty little opinions supercede the highest artistic truth.

LL Cool J honestly NEVER was better as an MC than what he did on 'Mama Said Knock You Out' in 92. Most of his 90's Def Jam shit was mediocre at best, except the random dope joint like 'Ill Bomb'. Canibus sure did not have a major label career that spanned 3 decades, but he did write a lot of timeless verses and had a late 90's era reign that no one can really compare to on a particular level of lyrical innovation, not even LL. And '2nd Round Knockout' was a fucking song that LL NEVER has written something better than. He's had much more success as an artist, but a lot of that is because 99 PERCENT OF HIS FANS WEAR HIGH HEELS.

LITERALLY

[Philaflava]

The LL hate is unwarranted. Name me a rapper with longevity, catalog, success and hits like him. If you don't think he is a good emcee, at least from his 90s era, then you're sadly mistaken. A top 10 in any real book.

[stype_ones]

LL is the man.

[stype_ones]

BTW, does anyone have a decent rip of Double L Cools Down unreleased album that Mike Nice posted a while ago? I have the one he posted but it sounds like shit. Not even sure if a clean rip exists.

[step one]

I picked it up cheap on vinyl recently in the hope of improving on that rip but it skips in a few places. If I sort out a good copy I'll let you know..

[Dap]

i really dont understand how people can think LL won that battle. 2nd round KO and the follow up diss records were better and more vicious than LL's disses and i don't think it's all that close

[CarlosDelgothoes]

The LL hate is unwarranted. Name me a rapper with longevity, catalog, success and hits like him. If you don't think he is a good emcee, at least from his 90s era, then you're sadly mistaken. A top 10 in any real book.

L is one of the GOATs, but even GOATs catch Ls.

[Philaflava]

The LL hate is unwarranted. Name me a rapper with longevity, catalog, success and hits like him. If you don't think he is a good emcee, at least from his 90s era, then you're sadly mistaken. A top 10 in any real book.

L is one of the GOATs, but even GOATs catch Ls.

[step one]

thing is, as already mentioned, everyone was super hyped about Canibus at that time and LL bodied them both with Rasta Imposter but overall 2nd Round Knockout was the better track and probably the most recognised one from the beef. The thing is Canibus had a mountain to climb because of LL's track record and back catalogue, so even if he did take it to him with that one track, people still consider LL the superior rapper because he was more succesful before and after Canibus had his time in the spotlight.

Out of the context of the battle, 2nd Round Knockout is actually quite shit.

[Mindbender Futurama]

The LL hate is unwarranted. Name me a rapper with longevity, catalog, success and hits like him. If you don't think he is a good emcee, at least from his 90s era, then you're sadly mistaken. A top 10 in any real book.

LL Cool J's 'Bad' on vinyl was possibly the FIRST piece of vinyl I owned/stole as a child. I fucking love James Todd Smith.

That doesn't mean he didn't peak as an MC on 'Boomin System' or 'Rampage' with EPMD.

His 90's era shit? FUCK OUTTA HERE. You gonna TRY tell me there's some CLASSIC material on '14 Shots to the Dome' or 'Mr. Smith'??? Don't you make me bring up shit like 'Headsprung' and 'Phenomenon', which were NOT records of the 'Bristol Hotel' caliber.

LL Cool J USED TO BE great. He's a living legend and a hip hop icon. But not for his rapping. Not for years and years. If ANYONE in NYC is guilty of resting on their laurels, it's LL Cool J.

Let's not start finger poppin each other's assholes around here just because we like someone's origins. LL's actually a solid actor, and I'mma let you finish... but Top 10? In Queens history. Before 1995.

He's good and all, but he's not in the Top 25 no more. LL Cool J hasn't had a verse that advanced hip hop culture since... sheeeit... it's been FOREVER. Foxy Brown stole 'I Shot Ya' from Uncle L, even. If he wasn't on Def Jam... he woulda been dropped in 1995.

KANYESHRUG

Biggie though. That guy had razor sharp wit. Cutthroat.

[Philaflava]

The LL hate is unwarranted. Name me a rapper with longevity, catalog, success and hits like him. If you don't think he is a good emcee, at least from his 90s era, then you're sadly mistaken. A top 10 in any real book.

LL Cool J's 'Bad' on vinyl was possibly the FIRST piece of vinyl I owned/stole as a child. I fucking love James Todd Smith.

That doesn't mean he didn't peak as an MC on 'Boomin System' or 'Rampage' with EPMD.

His 90's era shit? FUCK OUTTA HERE. You gonna TRY tell me there's some CLASSIC material on '14 Shots to the Dome' or 'Mr. Smith'??? Don't you make me bring up shit like 'Headsprung' and 'Phenomenon', which were NOT records of the 'Bristol Hotel' caliber.

Well his 80s dominance goes without saying, but yeah, even in the 90s he was dope. Mama Said Knock You Out dropped '90. There was definitely joints on 14 Shots and a few hard body cuts off Mr. Smith. But since he isn't even in your Top 25 of all-time, would you be kind enough to post who is?

[Career Over Like Mike(NJJ)]

Don't encourage Batti to post in this thread, Gloss.

Doin' It shits on the entire recorded history of Canuck music. One of the G.O.A.T rap & bullshit jams.

[stype_ones]

[admiral]

Always loved this cut from 14 Shots, which gets shit on unfairly

[admiral]

Well his 80s dominance goes without saying, but yeah, even in the 90s he was dope. Mama Said Knock You Out dropped '90. There was definitely joints on 14 Shots and a few hard body cuts off Mr. Smith

These are great songs, with Doin' It the absolute pinnacle of love rap

Life As
Get Da Drop On Em
No Airplay
I Shot Ya
Doin It

[gusty wingers]

Canibus was ripping shit and like plenty of other dud rappers, was hyped, sure, and he was nobody... And LL let him know... Status is everything

The same way Joe budden can drop 4 diss songs at jay and jay can say "tell them new niggas to button up"... And destroy him with one line... The second you thought you could win with LL you already lost... That's what you don't get... And then the ass eating line just gets him the auto L... If this is revisionist okay but the fact is when 2nd round KO came out yes he spit some heat... And then LL hit him with the haymaker called reality and he went to sleep... And now he's nobody while LL was prophetically accurate... His fans don't exist... While L is 30+ in the game... And if you think LL's 90 shit is wack you're wack... Not really the heavy blogging type so I'm not going to go into comparisons and rebuttal everything you say mindbender but I might throw a video on of YOU trying to rap just to get a laugh and vape this tangie og... Respect

[stype_ones]

Canibus was ok, he had is 15 mins but he ain't no LL. NEVER. That's all that really matters.

[stype_ones]

Really, was there ever a diss better?

[EMCEE DARTH MALEK]

^ yeah, "dig a hole".



i'm probably the biggest canibus fan here, but 2nd round KO is mediocre. dude is great as dissing the 'hypothetical 2nd person' but could never translate that to a dis track.

speaking of which, anyone have that compilation of guest verses+radio appearances that went up on this site around 2010/2011? it started off with 100 bars on the radio to promote 2000BC, including a challenge to wannabes to come battle him outside the hot97 building.

[Gyangsta 4 Life]

"my team in the marine blue" - holy fuck that's REALLY suspicious and dangerous for Biggie to say and always leaves this song with hella sinister vibes... were Crips tied up with Biggie and Puffy :

Kinda goes hand in hand with..

Dare I squeeze three at your Cherry M3
Bang every emcee easily

[clark bent]

imagine big if he didn't have puff in his corner every waking moment of his rap career.

i guess hed be the GGOAT instead of just the GOAT?

that damn puff always holding biggie back

[step one]

If Biggie didn't have Puffy backing him he'd have had Herb McGruff's career, or at best a similar trajectory to Black Moon or Smif N Wessun, and maybe ended up being a Sean Price type dude.

[GUCCI CONDOMS]

^ yeah, "dig a hole".



i'm probably the biggest canibus fan here, but 2nd round KO is mediocre. dude is great as dissing the 'hypothetical 2nd person' but could never translate that to a dis track.

speaking of which, anyone have that compilation of guest verses+radio appearances that went up on this site around 2010/2011? it started off with 100 bars on the radio to promote 2000BC, including a challenge to wannabes to come battle him outside the hot97 building.

I vaguely remember that, not sure if I have it, but I'll look sometime this week. That compilation def chronicled the best of canibus tho. He was killing all his guest appearances and radio appearances leading up to his debut album. After he released his album it was all downhill from there.

[EMCEE DARTH MALEK]

^dope thx. canibus is a pure spitter, those guest verses+radio freestyles play better than any album ever could. tho 2000BC is pretty close imo.

[clark bent]

"Rap career's over/ better off acting" - super knockout punch to Ice Cube at the time. Com murked him rapping yet even knew that we all still loved 'Boyz n tha Hood' and nobody could front on it

the problem with that song as fierce as it is is that it also has "aint made shit dope since amerikkkas most" which is so completely preposterous that it by itself almost invalidates the rest of the song....cube had one of the best albums of all time in death certificate, another classic LP in the predator, a classic EP and a very dope lethal injection...its always been unfathomable to me how common who is as intelligent an mc as theres ever been could think that was a good line much less put it in the song...its so stupid

also speaking of cube disses kam's "whoomp whoomp" is an all time great diss track that doesnt get enough love

[step one]

This shit was savage when it dropped



The beat switching up to Made You Look >>> + that last line makes Super Ugly sound soft

he does say "M-U-R-E-D-R Inc" though