do white people deserve to share with us this rap culture?

[Fuzzy Logic]

The Moorish Science Temple attracted mostly Black Americans. Noble Drew however was no racist, though he held certain racial theories. Blacks, he said, are Moabites or Moors, and under this identity he taught pride to a race of oppressed sufferers. Moors are an "Asiatic Race" --but so are many others. For example, Noble Drew identified Celts as an Asiatic Race; later, when Whites of various sorts became interested in Moorish Science, he identified all such as "Persians," a sort of spiritual rather than factual identity. For Moorish Americans Morocco is a "promised land"; this shows the influence of Garveyite "Return" teachings, and provides an interesting link between Moorish Science and Rastafarianism. Moorish Orthodoxy (despite its name) gives all these teachings an esoteric significance. For us, "The Asiatic Nation of North America" includes all who embrace some form of the Oriental Wisdom, whatever their other affiliations, and "Morocco" signifies their goal, "illuminated" consciousness.

[ALASKA]

i miss the days when the music industry was an oasis of fair business practices and none of the artists were getting ripped off by the business men. then rap music had to come around and fuck that up. OH HOW I MISS THE DAYS

Yes, that was before Judaism was invented and fucked the game up for everyone.

oh the hook nosed jew and his two live jew records.

[Mindbender Futurama]

and reparations and an exodus back to Africa is a necessary part of that healing process...

what the fuck makes you think Africa would want an influx of comparatively rich Americans invading their continent?

because my brothers and sisters inherently know we weren't supposed to be separated in the first place.

and as the natural connection of Black people exists infinitely, i'm sure they would embrace a reunion with open arms.

it wouldn't be perfect and surely there would be some major culture clashes and some culture shock, but ultimately it would be a good thing.

when's the last time you been to africa?

never been.

if you are trying to imply that Africa will never be peaceful... I'll piss on your philosophy with great and furious glee.

even if it takes a million lifetimes, Africa, the cradle of civilization, WILL reach its former glory days and heal itself from the scars of European/Christian invasion and the repercussions of the African Holocaust aka Slavery. I know Europe came in and raped Africa and implanted all kinds of systems and foreign cultures and taxes and rules and laws and apartheids and bullshit that black Africans have run with and made worse, if not just perpetuated more, for the last few decades/centuries.

but, admiral, you don't get it.

this is what our people must do. by any means necessary.

time is irrelevant. whether it's me, my kids or my kid's kids doing it, Africans must heal Africa, so we can be the next world power after China/India have their way with the world for the next X amount of years.

I'm being very general, which I don't like being... but if you can see the bigger picture I'm sketching, you'll understand me.

[naturalborn103]

and as the natural connection of Black people exists infinitely, i'm sure they would embrace a reunion with open arms.

a lot of Africans look down upon american blacks...

[multsanta]

Hired Gun did Go-Go last? Hip-Hop became big business and if there wasn't that business it wouldn't have survived plain and simple.

Well go-go remains is huge here in the DMV area. Dozens of bands play to packed crowds on a weekly basis and make money by the fistful. I think that evidences what a lot of people are saying here. Nobody is arguing that white man money hasn't benefited hip hop on a financial level (on a creative one it has probably done as much damage as it has helped). But to suggest that the genre (ahem... the culture) would've just curled up and died in their absence is just foolish. I suspect that it would've remained a thriving underground. Especially considering that, prior to the white owned majors, there was a successful network of independent, black owned labels in existence and that an even larger one is around now.

Besides, only the absolute upper echelon of active and professional hip hop artists are REALLY caking off the white man connect. And it's telling that almost every one of them got their initial buzz independently.

Not to say that I necessarily agree with, or have read, anything that Conspiracy has posted on this message board.

[ACTHEPD]

lol...woohoo! ... hiphopphilosophy.com is the truth ... 'white/black' is not ...

[Mindbender Futurama]

and as the natural connection of Black people exists infinitely, i'm sure they would embrace a reunion with open arms.

a lot of Africans look down upon american blacks...

guys, I know these things. Same way Americanized Africans (I don't like saying African-Americans) look down upon Jamaican/Trinidadian and various Caribbean Blacks.

the Willie Lynch Theory fuckory runs deep, but I'm not one to fall for the okey doke of the divide and conquer theory.

All Black people are brothers.

ALL PEOPLE are brothers and sisters, but Black people have a particularly difficult struggle in remembering this, considering all the shit we been thru in the past 500 years... or 2000 years

god damn slavery and christianity. genocide deluxe.

[ardamus]

Hired Gun did Go-Go last? Hip-Hop became big business and if there wasn't that business it wouldn't have survived plain and simple.

Well go-go remains is huge here in the DMV area. Dozens of bands play to packed crowds on a weekly basis and make money by the fistful.

Was about to say the same thing. They do shows in other weird areas and make money coming back. Leave go-go out of this......

[Philaflava]

Hired Gun did Go-Go last? Hip-Hop became big business and if there wasn't that business it wouldn't have survived plain and simple.

Well go-go remains is huge here in the DMV area. Dozens of bands play to packed crowds on a weekly basis and make money by the fistful. I think that evidences what a lot of people are saying here. Nobody is arguing that white man money hasn't benefited hip hop on a financial level (on a creative one it has probably done as much damage as it has helped). But to suggest that the genre (ahem... the culture) would've just curled up and died in their absence is just foolish. I suspect that it would've remained a thriving underground. Especially considering that, prior to the white owned majors, there was a successful network of independent, black owned labels in existence and that an even larger one is around now.

Besides, only the absolute upper echelon of active and professional hip hop artists are REALLY caking off the white man connect. And it's telling that almost every one of them got their initial buzz independently.

Not to say that I necessarily agree with, or have read, anything that Conspiracy has posted on this message board.

I was not speaking on just the white man's dollar, that is how many of you spin this. I said for every major outlet (radio, movies, labels, Yo! MTV, The Source) that may have provided opportunities be it showcasing talent, contracts, touring, careers or anything that would help expose the music, chances are a white person was apart of it.

My argument is that it's silly to think the music wasn't helped or saved by white folks, therefore they should be able to enjoy it despite what Conspiracy says. Over 70% of the United States population is made up of white folks.

Would hip-hop survived on the scale of Go-Go which is very very regional? Maybe but I'm talking about what it has become today. What it became a decade ago or even two. Before anyone challenges what I"m saying, I ask you carefully read my posts made so far in this thread and not see one thing and run with it. I compare indie rappers to high school or college athletes. They have all the talent and a lot of them have the work ethics but they need help to take it to the next level. Whether its that major label deal, distro or whatever that is usually run by the white man. I thought my basketball analogy was pretty good.

And this is not directed entirely to you but in general. I realize many people won't touch this with a 10 ft pole and I understand that.

[CharlieManson]

considering all the shit we been thru in the past 500 years... or 2000 years

.

What's that "we" shit? You grew up in the suburbs in Canada... you havent ever been through any shit that wasnt a byproduct of your own making...

It's the same as me saying "My grandfather faught in Vietnam.... us war veterens have it hard out here..."

[multsanta]

Would hip-hop survived on the scale of Go-Go which is very very regional? Maybe

Without WHITES there would be NO rap culture today. NONE!

[Lid]

and reparations and an exodus back to Africa is a necessary part of that healing process...

what the fuck makes you think Africa would want an influx of comparatively rich Americans invading their continent?

because my brothers and sisters inherently know we weren't supposed to be separated in the first place.

and as the natural connection of Black people exists infinitely, i'm sure they would embrace a reunion with open arms.

it wouldn't be perfect and surely there would be some major culture clashes and some culture shock, but ultimately it would be a good thing.

when's the last time you been to africa?

never been.

if you are trying to imply that Africa will never be peaceful... I'll piss on your philosophy with great and furious glee.

even if it takes a million lifetimes, Africa, the cradle of civilization, WILL reach its former glory days and heal itself from the scars of European/Christian invasion and the repercussions of the African Holocaust aka Slavery. I know Europe came in and raped Africa and implanted all kinds of systems and foreign cultures and taxes and rules and laws and apartheids and bullshit that black Africans have run with and made worse, if not just perpetuated more, for the last few decades/centuries.

but, admiral, you don't get it.

this is what our people must do. by any means necessary.

time is irrelevant. whether it's me, my kids or my kid's kids doing it, Africans must heal Africa, so we can be the next world power after China/India have their way with the world for the next X amount of years.

I'm being very general, which I don't like being... but if you can see the bigger picture I'm sketching, you'll understand me.

you need to really calm yourself. you have no idea lil guy. you make a lot of foolish assumptiions. smh. you make the black continent

[Philaflava]

Would hip-hop survived on the scale of Go-Go which is very very regional? Maybe

Without WHITES there would be NO rap culture today. NONE!

hyperbole my little polish buddy from metro dc who decided contributing 25 years of his life to the preservation of country rap tunes.

[Reason]

I'm not reading all that but based on the title I will respond with this...

Without WHITES there would be NO rap culture today. NONE!

i'm pretty sure there would be, glossy

[ardamus]

I'm not reading all that but based on the title I will respond with this...

Without WHITES there would be NO rap culture today. NONE!

i'm pretty sure there would be, glossy

In some form, yeah. But Gloss seems to be taking the side of the business/commercial/exposure aspect.

[Mindbender Futurama]

lol...woohoo! ... hiphopphilosophy.com is the truth ... 'white/black' is not ...

.

we got a long way to go before ALL race theory is gone.

hell, this half-black man trying to become your new President has already had a few attempts on his life simply because of his skin color.

I definitely don't judge my friends or lovers by their skin color... but I'd argue that no place on the planet instantly judges someone's entire existence based upon their racial "reality" as harshly as America does it.

The basketball analogy was perfect.

Black people across the world have been the PRODUCT of capitalism (if not the target) for centuries, not the perpetuators of it, until relatively recently. We've been sold, traded, given away and thrown overboard like physical property for ages. Now its our minds that are enslaved by capitalism, as we try to own our destiny and determine it. Once we start balancing shit and getting some REAL power and REAL wealth and riches and get more control AND MAYBE OWN AN INDUSTRY OR THREE (besides sports, drugs or entertainment, which we don't own at all anyways), maybe some of this racial way of thinking can disintegrate forever. But until then... white man still can ruin nuff people's lives with the swing of a police baton or the legal enslavement by-law signature on a new prison opening. Obama and other Black politicians aren't nearly powerful enough to start removing the bloodstain of racial hatred that has tainted the USA since the slaveship Jesus reached these shores.

That's why I think Nas's 'Nigger' album is the best album of the year. It shows what time it REALLY is this rap shit. White people still in the lead, LOL.

"record industry rule number one, two and three: jews run it, niggers run around in it, believe that" - Ras Kass

[Reggie]

Well if Kool Herc was more into klezmer music than disco, fools would be rapping over the glockenspiel and Mindbender would learn to play the accordion. So thank heaven for small favors.

[Reason]

I'm not reading all that but based on the title I will respond with this...

Without WHITES there would be NO rap culture today. NONE!

i'm pretty sure there would be, glossy

In some form, yeah. But Gloss seems to be taking the side of the business/commercial/exposure aspect.

basketball players alone would be able fund rappers. (tongue-in-cheek)

[hired gun]

lol...woohoo! ... hiphopphilosophy.com is the truth ... 'white/black' is not ...

you know what's funny. you have the nerve to speak about and for a community and you aren't a part of. sit down.

[Money Gripp]

Paul C sez: "I contributed more to hip hop kultcha than all of you faggots!"

[hired gun]

Hired Gun did Go-Go last? Hip-Hop became big business and if there wasn't that business it wouldn't have survived plain and simple.

Well go-go remains is huge here in the DMV area. Dozens of bands play to packed crowds on a weekly basis and make money by the fistful. I think that evidences what a lot of people are saying here. Nobody is arguing that white man money hasn't benefited hip hop on a financial level (on a creative one it has probably done as much damage as it has helped). But to suggest that the genre (ahem... the culture) would've just curled up and died in their absence is just foolish. I suspect that it would've remained a thriving underground. Especially considering that, prior to the white owned majors, there was a successful network of independent, black owned labels in existence and that an even larger one is around now.

Besides, only the absolute upper echelon of active and professional hip hop artists are REALLY caking off the white man connect. And it's telling that almost every one of them got their initial buzz independently.

Not to say that I necessarily agree with, or have read, anything that Conspiracy has posted on this message board.

I was not speaking on just the white man's dollar, that is how many of you spin this. I said for every major outlet (radio, movies, labels, Yo! MTV, The Source) that may have provided opportunities be it showcasing talent, contracts, touring, careers or anything that would help expose the music, chances are a white person was apart of it.

My argument is that it's silly to think the music wasn't helped or saved by white folks, therefore they should be able to enjoy it despite what Conspiracy says. Over 70% of the United States population is made up of white folks.

Would hip-hop survived on the scale of Go-Go which is very very regional? Maybe but I'm talking about what it has become today. What it became a decade ago or even two. Before anyone challenges what I"m saying, I ask you carefully read my posts made so far in this thread and not see one thing and run with it. I compare indie rappers to high school or college athletes. They have all the talent and a lot of them have the work ethics but they need help to take it to the next level. Whether its that major label deal, distro or whatever that is usually run by the white man. I thought my basketball analogy was pretty good.

And this is not directed entirely to you but in general. I realize many people won't touch this with a 10 ft pole and I understand that.

YOu can keep repeating it Jason, your point is obvious. You simply fail to acknowledge the implication..probably because your white...and as such with white privilege you dont see the ramifications. You think that without white people nothing could happen. That's the problem. Yes, it is because of the help of white folks that hip hop flourished...you can argue that's pretty much everything in modern history! lol. But does that mean, if the white man suddenly disappeared off the face of the earth, all modern civilation would perish? Do you understand why your statement goes a little too far? maybe just a tad.... Especially when you realized how much immoral and downright underhanded things occured for white people to be even in the position.

Just be happy and say 'Hey we white people played a big part too' HIGH FIVE. Not "gosh darn it, you owe us some gratitude, boy. Your little past time is nothing without us stepping in and makin it all civilized and respectable like."

[ardamus]

I'm not reading all that but based on the title I will respond with this...

Without WHITES there would be NO rap culture today. NONE!

i'm pretty sure there would be, glossy

In some form, yeah. But Gloss seems to be taking the side of the business/commercial/exposure aspect.

basketball players alone would be able fund rappers.

There's no doubt about that. But I think Gloss was speaking from what actually happened. Had there not been some of the white people in the positions they were in to put rap music out there, who knows what could've happened; maybe some wealthy brothas/sistas would've did the same thing (not saying they haven't). Even asians, hispanics, and etc. could be considered in same positions. But put it this way: there would've been the possibility of NWA not being put out there if Jerry Heller didn't put a machine behind them. Lyor Cohen would've never considered the option of marketing Roc-A-Fella. On some behind-the-scenes/get-money-on-the-commercial-level/historical tip, its true. But that was the focus......that green and not the kind you smoke. Some of these white cats in their position saw talent, exposed, new it would sell, and cashed in.

[hired gun]

I'm not reading all that but based on the title I will respond with this...

Without WHITES there would be NO rap culture today. NONE!

It doesn't mean it gives whites a free pass to inject themselves in this culture as artists but surely the preservation, the business, the notoriety happened because the white man was involved.

You'd be foolish to think otherwise.

Harlem Renaissance much, Jason? Thank you o white man for bringin us the Kultcha.... lol

Nah that's how an un-established, unsigned act might take it. But every major player in the game has a career because somebody whether it was Doug Morris, Clive Davis, Bryan Turner, Barry Weiss, Rick Rubin, Lyor Cohen, Bob Perry, David Geffen, Jimmy Iovine, Tommy Motoll and I could go on for days.

Whether you like these folks or their intentions were true, the fact is these people (Google them if you aren't familiar) allowed this music to breathe. They gave opportunities. Invested millions and gave careers to people.

You're not signed to a label. You weren't one of those who benefited from these people so you may not realize or appreciate their efforts. Fact is, every major accomplishment whether it's YO! or Wild Style or LL Cool J happened because white people were involved.

That's not to say white people deserve all the credit or even half, but to say should whites be able to enjoy this culture after they saved it is fucking ridiculously stupid.

No, its how an educated artist who understands a bit of history and the english language takes it. No one said they didn't, but you said without them? Well..that's real neat and tidy considering pretty much every diasporic culture in this country once it was at the tipping point was co-opted. I'm well aware of white executives crossing over the music , mostly to their benefit in the name of "saving" it...when it wasn't in the need of saving.

Your statement implies that things such as black promoters, radio etc. couldn't exist, when history shows they had and simply were muscled out of the marketplace. Stax Records. exhibit A.

Stax Records was trying to be "saved" by a black man from Arkansas and only started to get "muscled out" when Ottis Redding died in that plane crash... leaving the label with mediocre talent to compete against Motown Records. I don't see how they were muscled out.... especially when it was first founded by two white people.

Stax records actually went through a renaissance shortly after Redding died. The situation wherein Atlantic effectively owned Stax's catalogue during the Redding era (Muscling out move #1) led to the resurgence of the label, largely through the production and music of one Issac Hayes. The muscling out occured when CBS through Clive Davis had the label enter into some pretty bad (and another) record deal and some nefarious loans. That is where the "muscling" occured.

What most of you who dont know black history, or black music history or aren't even black realize is that, STax was a thriving independent black run company (though yes, white 'owned'). It was the management of Al Bell that brought it back to respectability (and ultimately insolvency) who by the way co-owned the label post Redding.

[Combo7]

no place on the planet instantly judges someone's entire existence based upon their racial "reality" as harshly as America does it.

You're kidding, right?

[hired gun]

I'm not reading all that but based on the title I will respond with this...

Without WHITES there would be NO rap culture today. NONE!

i'm pretty sure there would be, glossy

In some form, yeah. But Gloss seems to be taking the side of the business/commercial/exposure aspect.

basketball players alone would be able fund rappers.

There's no doubt about that. But I think Gloss was speaking from what actually happened. Had there not been some of the white people in the positions they were in to put rap music out there, who knows what could've happened; maybe some wealthy brothas/sistas would've did the same thing (not saying they haven't). Even asians, hispanics, and etc. could be considered in same positions. But put it this way: there would've been the possibility of NWA not being put out there if Jerry Heller didn't put a machine behind them. Lyor Cohen would've never considered the option of marketing Roc-A-Fella. On some behind-the-scenes/get-money-on-the-commercial-level/historical tip, its true. But that was the focus......that green and not the kind you smoke. Some of these white cats in their position saw talent, exposed, new it would sell, and cashed in.

Dont bail out the white boy Ardamus . And pick up yo album! . Glad we got to build for a couple hours.

[Money Gripp]

Does Mindbender realize that competing tribes in Africa regularly try to eliminate their fellow black Africans who they consider inferior?

[Philaflava]

Hired Gun did Go-Go last? Hip-Hop became big business and if there wasn't that business it wouldn't have survived plain and simple.

Well go-go remains is huge here in the DMV area. Dozens of bands play to packed crowds on a weekly basis and make money by the fistful. I think that evidences what a lot of people are saying here. Nobody is arguing that white man money hasn't benefited hip hop on a financial level (on a creative one it has probably done as much damage as it has helped). But to suggest that the genre (ahem... the culture) would've just curled up and died in their absence is just foolish. I suspect that it would've remained a thriving underground. Especially considering that, prior to the white owned majors, there was a successful network of independent, black owned labels in existence and that an even larger one is around now.

Besides, only the absolute upper echelon of active and professional hip hop artists are REALLY caking off the white man connect. And it's telling that almost every one of them got their initial buzz independently.

Not to say that I necessarily agree with, or have read, anything that Conspiracy has posted on this message board.

I was not speaking on just the white man's dollar, that is how many of you spin this. I said for every major outlet (radio, movies, labels, Yo! MTV, The Source) that may have provided opportunities be it showcasing talent, contracts, touring, careers or anything that would help expose the music, chances are a white person was apart of it.

My argument is that it's silly to think the music wasn't helped or saved by white folks, therefore they should be able to enjoy it despite what Conspiracy says. Over 70% of the United States population is made up of white folks.

Would hip-hop survived on the scale of Go-Go which is very very regional? Maybe but I'm talking about what it has become today. What it became a decade ago or even two. Before anyone challenges what I"m saying, I ask you carefully read my posts made so far in this thread and not see one thing and run with it. I compare indie rappers to high school or college athletes. They have all the talent and a lot of them have the work ethics but they need help to take it to the next level. Whether its that major label deal, distro or whatever that is usually run by the white man. I thought my basketball analogy was pretty good.

And this is not directed entirely to you but in general. I realize many people won't touch this with a 10 ft pole and I understand that.

YOu can keep repeating it Jason, your point is obvious. You simply fail to acknowledge the implication..probably because your white...and as such with white privilege you dont see the ramifications. You think that without white people nothing could happen.

Chill homie. You're coming off like a 90's Israelite. You even still rock the dreads, right?

Look I like you. I respect your grind and think you're talented. I've even supported you without you asking me to because I dig some of your music, the fact is I have repeatedly said this, we (white people) don't deserve the all credit, probably not even half. We aren't entitled to think because we've helped this culture than we can be apart of it either (see most white rappers).

I don't care to argue about the under handing things because that doesn't change the fact. I don't care to go into slavery either. All that shit is irrelevant to what I'm trying to say.

Black people made hip-hop. It started in the Bronx and Sugar Hill helped make it become popular. White people helped make it into what it is today, a business. A universally known culture. I listed 15 important names and could list another 50 more that you could write a chapter for each person and all of their contributions that have affective us the listeners. That's the extent of it.

But high five pal because without you there would be no me (Philaflava.com).

[Mindbender Futurama]

no place on the planet instantly judges someone's entire existence based upon their racial "reality" as harshly as America does it.

You're kidding, right?

No.

Does Mindbender realize that competing tribes in Africa regularly try to eliminate their fellow black Africans who they consider inferior?

as if I'm not aware of the black-on-black genocide in Africa. please give me a bit more credit than that.

but I still maintain that America is the worst place for race relations in the world. Africa is a close second. I wrote this last week here.

teach me if you think different. where is the most racist country in the world?

[Money Gripp]

Well, lemme go check the World Racist Rankings for 2008...

You're one dumb mutherfucker. You know that, right?

[hired gun]

Hired Gun did Go-Go last? Hip-Hop became big business and if there wasn't that business it wouldn't have survived plain and simple.

Well go-go remains is huge here in the DMV area. Dozens of bands play to packed crowds on a weekly basis and make money by the fistful. I think that evidences what a lot of people are saying here. Nobody is arguing that white man money hasn't benefited hip hop on a financial level (on a creative one it has probably done as much damage as it has helped). But to suggest that the genre (ahem... the culture) would've just curled up and died in their absence is just foolish. I suspect that it would've remained a thriving underground. Especially considering that, prior to the white owned majors, there was a successful network of independent, black owned labels in existence and that an even larger one is around now.

Besides, only the absolute upper echelon of active and professional hip hop artists are REALLY caking off the white man connect. And it's telling that almost every one of them got their initial buzz independently.

Not to say that I necessarily agree with, or have read, anything that Conspiracy has posted on this message board.

I was not speaking on just the white man's dollar, that is how many of you spin this. I said for every major outlet (radio, movies, labels, Yo! MTV, The Source) that may have provided opportunities be it showcasing talent, contracts, touring, careers or anything that would help expose the music, chances are a white person was apart of it.

My argument is that it's silly to think the music wasn't helped or saved by white folks, therefore they should be able to enjoy it despite what Conspiracy says. Over 70% of the United States population is made up of white folks.

Would hip-hop survived on the scale of Go-Go which is very very regional? Maybe but I'm talking about what it has become today. What it became a decade ago or even two. Before anyone challenges what I"m saying, I ask you carefully read my posts made so far in this thread and not see one thing and run with it. I compare indie rappers to high school or college athletes. They have all the talent and a lot of them have the work ethics but they need help to take it to the next level. Whether its that major label deal, distro or whatever that is usually run by the white man. I thought my basketball analogy was pretty good.

And this is not directed entirely to you but in general. I realize many people won't touch this with a 10 ft pole and I understand that.

YOu can keep repeating it Jason, your point is obvious. You simply fail to acknowledge the implication..probably because your white...and as such with white privilege you dont see the ramifications. You think that without white people nothing could happen.

Chill homie. You're coming off like a 90's Israelite. You even still rock the dreads, right?

Look I like you. I respect your grind and think you're talented. I've even supported you without you asking me to because I dig some of your music, the fact is I have repeatedly said this, we (white people) don't deserve the all credit, probably not even half. We aren't entitled to think because we've helped this culture than we can be apart of it either (see most white rappers).

I don't care to argue about the under handing things because that doesn't change the fact. I don't care to go into slavery either. All that shit is irrelevant to what I'm trying to say.

Black people made hip-hop. It started in the Bronx and Sugar Hill helped make it become popular. White people helped make it into what it is today, a business. A universally known culture. I listed 15 important names and could list another 50 more that you could write a chapter for each person and all of their contributions that have affective us the listeners. That's the extent of it.

But high five pal because without you there would be no me (Philaflava.com).

HIGH FIVE! something we can agree on.....