Top 10 players in the NBA right now

[Gregg Popabitch1]

so what does that have to do with Dirk for the majority of his career playing with infinite more talent then Pierce?

[naturalborn103]

Nowitzki is better at knocking up con artist smuts though, I will give him that..

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4207828

[blastmaster]

so what does that have to do with Dirk for the majority of his career playing with infinite more talent then Pierce?

With "infinitely" better talent on his team, playing against competition 10 levels higher, Dirk's career numbers almost mirror Pierce's (except for stabbings). Put Dirk on shitty teams playing where he is the first scoring option in the East (at it's lowest level of competition) and his numbers would dwarf Paul's.

[Gregg Popabitch1]

so what does that have to do with Dirk for the majority of his career playing with infinite more talent then Pierce?

With "infinitely" better talent on his team, playing against competition 10 levels higher, Dirk's career numbers almost mirror Pierce's (except for stabbings). Put Dirk on shitty teams playing where he is the first scoring option in the East (at it's lowest level of competition) and his numbers would dwarf Paul's.

this is one of the worst arguments ever and i'd expect better from you.

if the talent is so much better for dirk, there'd be less attention paid on dirk. if the talent is sparse on pierce's teams, there'd be more attention paid to containing Pierce.

[Tariq's Dilemma]

so what does that have to do with Dirk for the majority of his career playing with infinite more talent then Pierce?

With "infinitely" better talent on his team, playing against competition 10 levels higher, Dirk's career numbers almost mirror Pierce's (except for stabbings). Put Dirk on shitty teams playing where he is the first scoring option in the East (at it's lowest level of competition) and his numbers would dwarf Paul's.

this is one of the worst arguments ever and i'd expect better from you.

if the talent is so much better for dirk, there'd be less attention paid on dirk. if the talent is sparse on pierce's teams, there'd be more attention paid to containing Pierce.

I honestly don't see how people think Dirk is clear cut better than Pierce. Both of them play a very similar game. Both cause huge defensive mismatch problems and have have a mid-range jumper that they can get off on anybody. Both are nearly unguardable,although I would give the edge to Pierce.

Pierce is head and shoulders better on the defensive end than Dirk, who is actually a liability.

Not to mention, Pierce demands the ball in crunch time, and is known for making the big shot.

Also at all this east vs west comparison. Those New Jersey squads, with Jason Kidd in his prime, were very, very good. As were those Indiana teams.

[Money Gripp]

How bout we just say that Dirk fucked and wanted to marry this



And leave it at that.

[bringinoutbangerz]

Also at all this east vs west comparison. Those New Jersey squads, with Jason Kidd in his prime, were very, very good. As were those Indiana teams.

ehh. That Indiana squad was good for half a season until Ron Ron et al and the Auburn Hills crowd dismantled that. It doesn't excuse those Pierce teams from being shite. Mavs were powerhouses where they had the most bigs/best power forwards around. Duncan was in the division with him.

[naturalborn103]

Also at all this east vs west comparison. Those New Jersey squads, with Jason Kidd in his prime, were very, very good.

Are you talking about the team that Peirce led Celtics made the biggest 4th comeback in playoff history too in the eastern conference finals? 2nd and 3rd scorers on that team...

Antoine Walker
...
...
...
Rodney Rogers..


Nowitzki could never in his life get that team that far or lead that comeback.

[Tariq's Dilemma]

Also at all this east vs west comparison. Those New Jersey squads, with Jason Kidd in his prime, were very, very good.

Are you talking about the team that Peirce led Celtics made the biggest 4th comeback in playoff history too in the eastern conference finals? 2nd and 3rd scorers on that team...

Antoine Walker
...
...
...
Rodney Rogers..


Nowitzki could never in his life get that team that far or lead that comeback.

Shout out to a drunken Vin Baker, Walter McCarty and Eric Williams as well.

[naturalborn103]

Wasn't Baker cut by the end of that season? I LOVE WAAAALLTTERRR... Big baby is trying real hard to take his place. Eric Williams was wet.

[Gregg Popabitch1]

Dirk is a more dynamic offensive player then Pierce is.

[Tariq's Dilemma]

Dirk is a more dynamic offensive player then Pierce is.

Pierce is an all around better offensive player. There are more players in the league that can cause Dirk fits on the offensive end than Pierce.

[Gregg Popabitch1]

Nope.

I've been on the Paul Pierce bandwagon for awhile. But this recent trend where Paul Pierce parted the Red Seas, died for our sins, and then came back to life to smite the sinners is pretty ridiculous.

[naturalborn103]

Dirk is a more dynamic offensive player then Pierce is.

He should be.. He is a athletic 7 footer with a three. When it comes down to it though, Close game 4th quarter comes along I think everybody would rather have Pierce on there side then Dirk.

[Gregg Popabitch1]

Dirk is a more dynamic offensive player then Pierce is.

He should be.. He is a athletic 7 footer with a three. When it comes down to it though, Close game 4th quarter comes along I think everybody would rather have Pierce on there side then Dirk.

alright but that is one facet of the man's offensive game.

at the end of a close game, i'd rather have Pierce over KG but that doesn't mean i'd rather have Pierce over KG. Using that as a sole factor is kinda crazy to me.

EDIT: I cleaned up your little mess up with the quote function.

[naturalborn103]

Dirk is a more dynamic offensive player then Pierce is.

He should be.. He is a athletic 7 footer with a three. When it comes down to it though, Close game 4th quarter comes along I think everybody would rather have Pierce on there side then Dirk.

alright but that is one facet of the man's offensive game.

at the end of a close game, i'd rather have Pierce over KG but that doesn't mean i'd rather have Pierce over KG. Using that as a sole factor is kinda crazy to me.

But as a scorer you would think that should be his best point right? And you would rather have KG over Pierce because of defense and intensity, two things that Pierce brings way more then Dirk.

[Gregg Popabitch1]

Dirk is a more dynamic offensive player then Pierce is.

He should be.. He is a athletic 7 footer with a three. When it comes down to it though, Close game 4th quarter comes along I think everybody would rather have Pierce on there side then Dirk.

alright but that is one facet of the man's offensive game.

at the end of a close game, i'd rather have Pierce over KG but that doesn't mean i'd rather have Pierce over KG. Using that as a sole factor is kinda crazy to me.

But as a scorer you would think that should be his best point right? And you would rather have KG over Pierce because of defense and intensity, two things that Pierce brings way more then Dirk.

probably a poor example on my part.

but honestly, if i had a better example at this point, you probably would still disagree because if i cut you, you would bleed green (not mavericks green though).

we'll have to agree to disagree.

[naturalborn103]

Dirk is a more dynamic offensive player then Pierce is.

He should be.. He is a athletic 7 footer with a three. When it comes down to it though, Close game 4th quarter comes along I think everybody would rather have Pierce on there side then Dirk.

alright but that is one facet of the man's offensive game.

at the end of a close game, i'd rather have Pierce over KG but that doesn't mean i'd rather have Pierce over KG. Using that as a sole factor is kinda crazy to me.

But as a scorer you would think that should be his best point right? And you would rather have KG over Pierce because of defense and intensity, two things that Pierce brings way more then Dirk.

probably a poor example on my part.

but honestly, if i had a better example at this point, you probably would still disagree because if i cut you, you would bleed green (not mavericks green though).

we'll have to agree to disagree.

I just don't see any situation at all that you would rather have nowitzki.

Defense leans towards Peirce and that is pretty much undebatable.

I think offense does too but it is debatable... But when you think about it they avg about the same thing when Peirce has been the only weapon on his team for most of his career while nowitzki has always had talent surround him.. Also if they avg around the same I think everybody would agree they would rather take the person who is demands the ball and is scoring in pressure situation/games..

Leadership I think is obviously leaning towards Peirce as well.. I think everyone saw the lack of Nowitkzis leadership in all of the press conferences following the loss to the Warriors.

Nowitzki should be the better player as he is 7 footer with a shot and athletic skills, but when it comes down to how they actually perform I Pierce takes the cake.

[coldwatermusic]

I don't think I should comment on this as it is pretty much impossible to watch as many games as y'all do if you're in Europe but all the people shitting on Dirk's leadership have obviously never seen him play for the German national team.
Of course the NBA is a lot more important but Nowitzki has made a team that wouldn't stand a chance against most American high school squads competitive. He has taken pretty much EVERY important shot and is the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th option on that joke of a team.
It's not like he's incapable of taking over, it's just doesn't come natural for him as it does for Pierce. This is might be irrelevant to this thread but it is an aspect that is often overlooked.

[Gregg Popabitch1]

i think it's pretty undebateable that nowitzki is a better and more valuable offensive player. and if you don't see that, it's because you are wearing tainted glasses. the only aspect that pierce is better at is closing games. that's it.

i'm pretty much done arguing with you on this point. it's pretty evident you don't like nowitzki. and it's well known to everyone how much you love pierce.

[eternalreflection]

Finals MVP vs. reguar season MVP.. exactly, Paul Peirce did it when it counted the most..

except vs Atlanta and most of the Cleveland series, he's a big reason both of those went 7games

Dirk didn't have a great series vs GSW but he was excellent the year before, and the 2yrs afterwords and in general has played very well in the playoffs

[an-also]

wrong thread*

[eternalreflection]

career wise its pretty clear KG>Dirk>Pierce all are HoFers but you'd have to be a pretty big homer to put Pierce ahead of either of those 2

[hustler]

id like to see dirk win a championship. steve nash too. maybe they can somehow come together no homo and make one or two more runs at it.

[Big Breeze]

I DON'T REALLY LIKE DIRK THAT MUCH, BUT I RESPECT HIS GAME CRAZILY.

I SHOULD BE A HOMER AND GIVE PROPS TO PIERCE SINCE HE'S FROM CALI, BUT HE'S NOT AS GOOD AS NOWITIZKI IS AND NEVA WILL BE.

SHAME ON U IF U CAN'T SEE THAT DIRK IS THE GREATEST EURO REPPIN IN THE GAME AND ONE OF THE BEST ON THE PLANET.

COLDWATER HAS A POINT ALSO. DIRK USED TO BALL WITH ADEMOLA OKULAJA ON THE GERMAN NATIONAL TEAM. IF U CAN WIN DESPITE PLAYERS LIKE THAT IN THE LINEUP, U CAN PLAY.

[coldwatermusic]

COLDWATER HAS A POINT ALSO. DIRK USED TO BALL WITH ADEMOLA OKULAJA ON THE GERMAN NATIONAL TEAM. IF U CAN WIN DESPITE PLAYERS LIKE THAT IN THE LINEUP, U CAN PLAY.

And Okulaja was the second best player on those teams

[Epitome]

Dirk Nowitzki vs. Paul Pierce; an attempted synthesis

Individual Career Stats: Regular Season

Dirk Nowitzki:

PPG:22.7
RPG:8.6
APG:2.7
SPG:0.9
BPG:1.0
FG%:.472
3P%:.378
FT%:.872

Paul Pierce

PPG:22.9
RPG:6.3
APG:3.9
SPG:1.6
BPG:0.7
FG%:.443
3P%:.366
FT%:.798

Individual Career Stats: Playoffs

Dirk Nowitzki:

PPG:25.5
RPG:11.0
APG:2.6
SPG:1.2
BPG:1.0
FG%:.454
3P%:.367
FT%:.879

Paul Pierce

PPG:22.2
RPG:6.8
APG:4.4
SPG:1.4
BPG:0.7
FG%:.422
3P%:.325
FT%:.819

Advanced Career Stats: Regular Season

Dirk Nowitzki:

PER:23.8
TS%:.581
eFG%:.511

Plus/Minus

2002-03: +18.0
2003-04: +8.6
2004-05: +15.3
2005-06: +11.6
2006-07: +15.7
2007-08: +12.3
2008-09: +9.6

Paul Pierce

PER:21.0
TS%:.562
eFG%:.492

Plus/Minus

2002-03: +10.1
2003-04: +1.7
2004-05: +8.1
2005-06: +8.7
2006-07: +7.7
2007-08: +10.4
2008-09: +5.2

Notes: The 2002-03 season is the earliest for which regular season +/- stats are available that I can find.

Advanced Career Stats: Playoffs

Dirk Nowitzki:

PER:24.4
TS%:.576
eFG%:.485

Plus/Minus

2003-04: -2.3
2004-05: -6.9
2005-06: +14.2
2006-07: +9.6
2007-08: +7.1


Paul Pierce

PER:21.0
TS%:.562
eFG%:.492

Plus/Minus

2003-04: +1.4
2004-05: -3.5
2005-06: Missed Playoffs
2006-07: Missed Playoffs
2007-08: +5.0

Notes: The 2003-04 season is the earliest for which +/- stats are available for the playoffs that I can find.

Career Clutch Shooting: Regular Season

Dirk Nowitzki

PPG:40.1
FG%.436
eFG%.473
FT% .882

Paul Pierce

PPG:35.4
FG%.383
eFG%.408
FT% .794

Career Clutch Shooting: Playoffs

Dirk Nowitzki

PPG:37.3
FG%.383
eFG%.429
FT%.862

Paul Pierce

PPG:24.9
FG%.173
eFG%.174
FT%.751

Notes: Clutch means less than 5 minutes to go in the 4th Quarter or Overtime, neither team ahead/behind by more than 5. PPG = Points per 48 minutes of Clutch Game Time.

Career Game Winning Shots: Regular Season

Dirk Nowitzki

Shots Made:12
Shots Attempted37
Percentage.324

Paul Pierce

Shots Made:11
Shots Attempted32
Percentage.344

Career Game Winning Shots: Playoffs

Dirk Nowitzki

Shots Made:3
Shots Attempted6
Percentage.500

Paul Pierce

82games.com does not have Paul Pierce as ever sinking a game winning shot in the playoffs

Notable Awards/Achievements

Dirk Nowitzki

8 Time All-Star
4 Time All-NBA First Team
3 Time All-NBA Second Team
2 Time All-NBA Third Team
2006-07 Regular Season MVP

Paul Pierce

7 Time All-Star
1998-99 All-Rookie First Team
3 Time All-NBA Third Team
1 Time All-NBA Second Team
2007-08 Finals MVP

Other Notes

Paul Pierce: Got stabbed by that one guy who always has 3 page articles about him in The Source for some reason.

Dirk Nowitzki Knocked up a transexual hooker; plays the saxophone.

[naturalborn103]

Why don't you look up 4th quarter scoring stats?

[Gregg Popabitch1]

Why don't you look up 4th quarter scoring stats?

because 4th quarter stats are meaningless compared to crunchtime stats.

4th quarters can have blowouts too. it's the a-rod theory.

we had this discussion before and you agreed with me. you are reaching.

[Gregg Popabitch1]

and despite the clutch #s heavily favoring Dirk, i'd still want Pierce to be my closer.

also, Pierce's defense helps closes some of the gap since Dirk has been a better offensive player.