Best Quarterback of All Time

Nl5H · Post by **Nl5H** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:10 am

i would say that brady and manning have similar arm strengths...both can throw the deep ball , the fade, the laser in between two defenders....i think there are really no distinct ways to tell their strength apart unless we all sat there and watched their game tape over the length of their careers. with that said, favre has a stronger arm than both of them, so its a moot point.

i hate tom brady, so everything i say here on after will just be full of bias, so i'm just not going to say anything.

VideoKilledThe · Post by **VideoKilledThe** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:00 am

ric wrote:
VideoKilledThe wrote:
ric wrote:hes chasing Dan Marino for every significant qb statistic.
You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Please STFU.
oh i dont?

Nope, sure don't.

You think Dan Marino owns every significant QB record, which makes me question whether you watch football or even SportsCenter for that matter, because everyone who does has had Brett Favre shoved down their throat for the past few years.

You think Brady doesn't have a strong arm. Did you see him throw 50 tds in a year? Does deep to Moss mean anything to you???

If Brady is such a system QB why isn't every team who runs the west coast system tearing it up offensively?

It would be one thing if you were arguing an obscure point with a single person, but you are alone here against the whole board, maybe you should reconsider.

Please stop posting, I might as well be talking to my sister about fantasy football.

Again, you don't know what you're talking about. Take your YAC stats and shove them up your ass.

DzzNutz · Post by **DzzNutz** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:05 pm

I think they are in perfect order from top to bottom on the poll where you vote starting with Joe Montana...

ric · Post by **ric** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:03 pm

VideoKilledThe wrote:
ric wrote:
VideoKilledThe wrote:
ric wrote:hes chasing Dan Marino for every significant qb statistic.
You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Please STFU.
oh i dont?
Nope, sure don't.

You think Dan Marino owns every significant QB record, which makes me question whether you watch football or even SportsCenter for that matter, because everyone who does has had Brett Favre shoved down their throat for the past few years.

i guess all you do is watch sportscenter and games and just jerk it to whatever they have to say.

most games with 400 yrds passing (season and career)? marino
most yrds gained in a season? marino
most games with 300rds yards passing (career)? marino

sure favre has records like 'most passing yards (career)' but the dude is a dinosaur. most tds? yeah favre. marino is number 2. this is a longevity thing. the above stats that are marinos are performance things.

fine though. ill grant youre right and im wrong. it doesnt matter.

You think Brady doesn't have a strong arm. Did you see him throw 50 tds in a year?

show me his YAC or explain to me how the YAC doesnt mean what im saying it does given his offenses. ive already granted that brady can have a strong arm.

Does deep to Moss mean anything to you???

to be honest, it doesnt mean as much as youre making it out to mean. who CANT throw to randy moss when he is actually trying?

If Brady is such a system QB why isn't every team who runs the west coast system tearing it up offensively?

brady is a good qb. he is top 10 or top 5 for sure when hes healthy, ive already mentioned this. but there are two other things going on here: the first is that not every qb is playing in the belicheck system. cassel played well in this system. not top flight, but well and he hadnt played at all previously. are you going to tell me that belicheck magically finds these well performing qbs? the second thing is that the pats, when putting up all these magic numbers, were also playing in a weak division.

It would be one thing if you were arguing an obscure point with a single person, but you are alone here against the whole board, maybe you should reconsider.

Please stop posting, I might as well be talking to my sister about fantasy football.

Again, you don't know what you're talking about. Take your YAC stats and shove them up your ass.

you guys can be fucking babys when it comes to your legends. explain to me how brady isnt system given his YAC and the factors ive previously mentioned.

VideoKilledThe · Post by **VideoKilledThe** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:31 pm

Joining a GOAT discussion, and making a statement like "he's chasing Dan Marino for every significant QB stat" and then trying to twist that statement to meant single game/single season marks is disingenuous to your original intent.

Yes, all you have to do is watch games and SportsCenter to gain a general understanding of what's going on/stay up to date on recently broken career/all-time marks as not to make an ass out of yourself when joining discussions such as this.

Moss scores 23 tds his first year with Brady, beating double and sometimes triple coverage. The next year Brady is hurt and Cassell steps in and Moss has a year similar to his first in Oakland. Coincidence? Same system, same players, difference results.

It's a QB's job to get the ball to his receivers in a position to gain YAC. Trying to pawn Brady off as just some "Good QB" is insanity.

I'm done with this.

Prophecy · Post by **Prophecy** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:43 pm

^Word Penalizing QB's for Yac is penalizing them for doing their job. It would be like penalizing RB's when FB's make a great lead block. "Well the only reason he got that 70yds is because the FB absolutely blew up the LB and it gave him a clear path to break the run"

naturalborn103 · Post by **naturalborn103** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:57 pm

ric wrote: ive already granted that brady can have a strong arm.

What does that even mean?

ric wrote:
Does deep to Moss mean anything to you???
to be honest, it doesnt mean as much as youre making it out to mean. who CANT throw to randy moss when he is actually trying?

Apparently not Cassel.. or any qb on the raiders..

ric wrote:
If Brady is such a system QB why isn't every team who runs the west coast system tearing it up offensively?
brady is a good qb. he is top 10 or top 5 for sure when hes healthy, ive already mentioned this. but there are two other things going on here: the first is that not every qb is playing in the belicheck system. cassel played well in this system. not top flight, but well and he hadnt played at all previously. are you going to tell me that belicheck magically finds these well performing qbs?

So how come Bledsoe could not do as well? How come every team can not copy their same offense if its not about the players and more about the system?

ric wrote:
It would be one thing if you were arguing an obscure point with a single person, but you are alone here against the whole board, maybe you should reconsider.

Please stop posting, I might as well be talking to my sister about fantasy football.

Again, you don't know what you're talking about. Take your YAC stats and shove them up your ass.
you guys can be fucking babys when it comes to your legends. explain to me how brady isnt system given his YAC and the factors ive previously mentioned.

All you mention is YAC, which is retarded because the is sopposed to set up his WR for YAC.. but just to show you something anyway..

Here are his 4 main targets with YAC from 07. Welker-640 YAC, Faulk-340 YAC, Stallworth-328YAC and Moss-293 YAC. That totals 1596 yards out of Brady's 4806. So 3210 of Brady's 4806 passing yards were not becuase of YAC. So any theory of Brady just throwing screens and dumpoffs is shot to the ground with these numbers.

an-also · Post by **an-also** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:14 pm

naturalborn103 wrote:
ric wrote: ive already granted that brady can have a strong arm.
What does that even mean?

ric wrote:
Does deep to Moss mean anything to you???
to be honest, it doesnt mean as much as youre making it out to mean. who CANT throw to randy moss when he is actually trying?
Apparently not Cassel.. or any qb on the raiders..

ric wrote:
If Brady is such a system QB why isn't every team who runs the west coast system tearing it up offensively?
brady is a good qb. he is top 10 or top 5 for sure when hes healthy, ive already mentioned this. but there are two other things going on here: the first is that not every qb is playing in the belicheck system. cassel played well in this system. not top flight, but well and he hadnt played at all previously. are you going to tell me that belicheck magically finds these well performing qbs?
So how come Bledsoe could not do as well? How come every team can not copy their same offense if its not about the players and more about the system?

ric wrote:
It would be one thing if you were arguing an obscure point with a single person, but you are alone here against the whole board, maybe you should reconsider.

Please stop posting, I might as well be talking to my sister about fantasy football.

Again, you don't know what you're talking about. Take your YAC stats and shove them up your ass.
you guys can be fucking babys when it comes to your legends. explain to me how brady isnt system given his YAC and the factors ive previously mentioned.
All you mention is YAC, which is retarded because the is sopposed to set up his WR for YAC.. but just to show you something anyway..

Here are his 4 main targets with YAC from 07. Welker-640 YAC, Faulk-340 YAC, Stallworth-328YAC and Moss-293 YAC. That totals 1596 yards out of Brady's 4806. So 3210 of Brady's 4806 passing yards were not becuase of YAC. So any theory of Brady just throwing screens and dumpoffs is shot to the ground with these numbers.

ric · Post by **ric** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:26 am

after a lengthy search, im getting the YAC stats from yahoo sports.

shouldve went straight to the C list of sports websites but it only applies to the recievers themselves. not to brady. please note that i wrote this after i wrote the part in quotes. (the bolded parts are good to read)

pats 2007 stats
moss Tot 1493 YAC/per 3 Rec 98 YAC/tot 294
faulk Tot 383 YAC/per 7.2 Rec 47 YAC/tot 338.4
stallworth Tot 697 YAC/per 7.1 Rec 46 YAC/tot 326 .6
welker Tot 1175 YAC/per 5.7 Rec 112 YAC/tot 638.4

BRADY TOTALS (of above) Tot 3748 - YAC/tot 1597.4 - YAC% 42.62
MANNING TOTALS for 08.... Tot 4002 - YAC/tot 1627 - YAC% 40.7
BRADY MINUS MOSS TOTAL Tot 2255 - YAC tot 1303 - YAC% 57.78

fucking eat that shit. especially you natural born, you stat juking motherfucker. (natural born would have you believe bradys YAC% is about 33%) even with moss his YAC is almost the same as peyton (higher even) and thus do i see less of a convincing argument considering the other factors involved. but it doesnt even matter because the way moss is worked into the system is that he is the deep ball threat who, lets not forget, can catch ANYTHING beating double and triple coverage. this is especially true given the 57.78 YAC % of the other recievers/backs.

theres another reciever or two unaccounted for who are not named randy moss and probably had higher YAC % than him given moss' role as the deep threat (notice the implications for the system here). before you figure out who this might be, please notice ive included the brady YAC stats of the above recievers minus randy moss who is catching it in double and triple coverage. without seeing all these deep balls firsthand, ill grant that a good % of them are fairly well thrown but triple coverage? please. lets not act like moss isnt winning these battles. once again im not saying brady is terrible, hes a top 5-10 qb. im saying hes not as deserving as peyton as the best in the game or the best career overall.

brady setting his recievers up for YAC and then giving the yards solely to brady and not the reciever, system or play calling (or defense) is like saying 'well he throws the ball where he should/is told to and therefore he is the greatest'

before i analyzed natural borns assertion i wrote:nice. id like to see total YAC and id like to see career but it seems like i got schooled there on the YAC stats. hard. well done.

i still say peyton

in 07 brady threw more slants than china (bad pun) and i still say brady is system but maybe im just holding on to some intuition there. id still like to see career YAC. i never said 'screens and dump offs'. i guess ill have to change how i discuss the systemness. or admit that brady isnt system. or compile some career YAC stats on my own. well see.

moss seemed to stop playing for cassel. but the point remains that belicheck i guess changed the way the system worked to fit cassel, who still won despite almost never playing. yet the arguments for brady seem to be the 07 season and wins, which are partly defensive and partly shitty competition.

and how does brady throwing it into double and triple coverage to possibly the best wideout in the game mean brady is really really awesome? the only reason those balls were caught is because of randy moss. almost any other wideout does not physically out do 3 d backs. period. cassel probably cant even throw it to where moss was on the field, assuming moss hadnt quit. if moss was double covered then cassel, who sucked, would shy away at throwing those balls anyway. it seems to be a point in my favor if nothing else. moss was one of the best WRs in the league from day one. him being double covered and not being thrown to is not the same thing as having qb who cant make those throws near bradys level.

the question still remains:
are you going to tell me that belicheck magically finds these well performing qbs?
ps where did you get those YAC stats though?

an-also · Post by **an-also** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:04 am

Slants are the most difficult pass to complete for a quarterback. Discounting any qb for throwing a lot of slants completely is pretty retarded. Im done with this convo.

Mike BLAOWery · Post by **Mike BLAOWery** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:26 am

lmao @ Brady's YAC without Moss. Can we look at Manning's career YAC total without Marvin Harrison. How about Reggie Wayne. Ric is consistently full of shit. He'll do one thing with one player but his player always gets the benefit of the doubt. that is why you are the tupac of the Sports bar. LMAO @ hanging on to one stat for dear life and jacking off to it because it is seriously all you have.

also, the out route is the most difficult pass to throw in football.

naturalborn103 · Post by **naturalborn103** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:37 am

ric wrote: moss seemed to stop playing for cassel.

How many pats games you watch last year??

an-also · Post by **an-also** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:06 am

Mike BLAOWery wrote:lmao @ Brady's YAC without Moss. Can we look at Manning's career YAC total without Marvin Harrison. How about Reggie Wayne. Ric is consistently full of shit.

Dude completely ignored my post too. Dallas Clark was leading the league in YAC yards this year before Indy's bye week. I dont hear him using that in his augments. lol @ the tupac of the sports bar though

ric · Post by **ric** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:32 pm

to the person i ignored, sorry, im getting lots of hate. please quote yourself in bold if its that important. thank you.

an-also wrote:Slants are the most difficult pass to complete for a quarterback. Discounting any qb for throwing a lot of slants completely is pretty retarded. Im done with this convo.

be done. fine. slants require timing , a quick read, and a bit of accuracy, this is true, but it is also one of the safest passes to make. it is very difficult to defend a slant and easy to catch a slant with a halfway decent throw, especially since the reciever expects to catch the ball near their hips. a good quarterback that is not necessarily great will consistently make these throws.

all you motherfuckers can say is that im full of shit. yeah? show me. you guys are really only looking at one side of the equation for everything you bring up in bradys favor. slants arent guaranteed yards. bah. next youll be telling me these mini hook routes are the most difficult passes to throw

here are the colts 2006 stats. i wanted to choose a year that marvin harrison was still playing well and being the man but that was also relatively close to right now to guard against too many changes in personnel, offensive and defensive schemes, injuries, etc.

colts 2006 stats
harrison Tot 1366 Rec 95 YAC/per 3.2 YAC/tot 304
wayne Tot 1310 Rec 86 YAC/per 2.5 YAC/tot 215
clark Tot 367 Rec 30 YAC/per 4.6 YAC/tot 138
addai Tot 325 Rec 40 YAC/per 7.6 YAC/tot 304
rhodes Tot 251 Rec 36 YAC/per 6.5 YAC/tot 234
utecht Tot 377 Rec 37 YAC/per 5 YAC/tot 185

MANNING TOTAL YARDS 06 (of above) Tot 3996 YAC/tot 1110 YAC% 27.77
MANNING MINUS HARRISON 06 Tot 2630 YAC/tot 806 YAC% 30.65

TELL ME THERE ISNT A DIFFERENCE YOU DICK SUCKING MOTHER FUCKERS

BRADY TOTALS 07 (of above) Tot 3748 - YAC/tot 1597.4 - YAC% 42.62
BRADY MINUS MOSS TOTAL 07 Tot 2255 - YAC tot 1303 - YAC% 57.78

ric · Post by **ric** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:39 pm

im coming with pats 06 stats right now for comparison due to the pats changed scheme once moss arrived. ill also look up colts 07....will edit this post

ric · Post by **ric** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:29 pm

colts 2007 stats
wayne Tot 1510 Rec 104 YAC/per 3.9 YAC/tot 405.6
gonzales Tot 576 Rec 37 YAC/per 4.9 YAC/tot 181.3
addai Tot 364 Rec 41 YAC/per 8.6 YAC/tot 352.6
clark Tot 616 Rec 58 YAC/per 3.8 YAC/tot 220.4
utecht Tot 364 Rec 31 YAC/per 5.6 YAC/tot 173.6

MANNING TOTAL YARDS 07 (of above) Tot 3430 YAC/tot 1333.5 YAC% 38.88
MANNING MINUS WAYNE Tot 1920 YAC/tot 927.9 YAC% 48.32

BRADY TOTALS 07 (of above) Tot 3748 - YAC/tot 1597.4 - YAC% 42.62
BRADY MINUS MOSS TOTAL 07 Tot 2255 - YAC tot 1303 - YAC% 57.78

pats 2007 stats
moss Tot 1493 YAC/per 3 Rec 98 YAC/tot 294
faulk Tot 383 YAC/per 7.2 Rec 47 YAC/tot 338.4
stallworth Tot 697 YAC/per 7.1 Rec 46 YAC/tot 326 .6
welker Tot 1175 YAC/per 5.7 Rec 112 YAC/tot 638.4

----------------------
pats 06 stats
caldwell Tot 760 Rec 61 YAC/per 3.6 YAC/tot 219.6
brown Tot 384 Rec 34 YAC/per 4.4 YAC/tot 149.6
watson Tot 643 Rec 49 YAC/per 4.6 YAC/tot 225.4
graham Tot 235 Rec 21 YAC/per 4.9 YAC/tot 102.9
dillon Tot 147 Rec 15 YAC/per 11.9 YAC/tot 178.5 (notes passes for loss)
(i feel like theres something wrong here. these are the top recievers i can find for brady and yet i cant account for 1500 yards - can anybody fill in the gap? there were about 3 other wrs/rbs that got about 100+yards a piece that i can find but thats still a large discrepancy)

BRADY TOTALS 06 (of above) Tot 2169 YAC/tot 876 YAC% 40
BRADY TOTALS MINUS CALDWELL Tot 1409 YAC/tot 656.4 YAC% 46.58

MANNING TOTAL YARDS 06 (of above) Tot 3996 YAC/tot 1110 YAC% 27.77
MANNING MINUS HARRISON 06 Tot 2630 YAC/tot 806 YAC% 30.65

colts 2006 stats
harrison Tot 1366 Rec 95 YAC/per 3.2 YAC/tot 304
wayne Tot 1310 Rec 86 YAC/per 2.5 YAC/tot 215
clark Tot 367 Rec 30 YAC/per 4.6 YAC/tot 138
addai Tot 325 Rec 40 YAC/per 7.6 YAC/tot 304
rhodes Tot 251 Rec 36 YAC/per 6.5 YAC/tot 234
utecht Tot 377 Rec 37 YAC/per 5 YAC/tot 185

Tweak Da Leak · Post by **Tweak Da Leak** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:32 pm

I agree that Brady gets alot more of his yards from YAC then Manning but in those years of having faulk and the like at RB they would use the short pass/screen pass game as run plays so that would be all YAC

ric · Post by **ric** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:47 pm

i dont have time to run the e james or faulk stat comparisons right now. feel free.

clearly in 07 the personnel and philosophies changed for both teams. brady, in 06 and 07 had much more reliance on the YAC and much more reliance on moss and welker. moss, who is catching balls in double and triple coverage and welker who has more than 50% YAC due to the safe, easily thrown to routes he was running.

fuck almost all of you. especially you motherfuckers telling me i was crazy. and especially natural born for juking the stats and trying to act all definitive about it.

Mike BLAOWery · Post by **Mike BLAOWery** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:48 pm

ric wrote:colts 2007 stats
wayne Tot 1510 Rec 104 YAC/per 3.9 YAC/tot 405.6
gonzales Tot 576 Rec 37 YAC/per 4.9 YAC/tot 181.3
addai Tot 364 Rec 41 YAC/per 8.6 YAC/tot 352.6
clark Tot 616 Rec 58 YAC/per 3.8 YAC/tot 220.4
utecht Tot 364 Rec 31 YAC/per 5.6 YAC/tot 173.6

MANNING TOTAL YARDS 07 (of above) Tot 3430 YAC/tot 1333.5 YAC% 38.88
MANNING MINUS WAYNE Tot 1920 YAC/tot 927.9 YAC% 48.32

BRADY TOTALS 07 (of above) Tot 3748 - YAC/tot 1597.4 - YAC% 42.62
BRADY MINUS MOSS TOTAL 07 Tot 2255 - YAC tot 1303 - YAC% 57.78
----------------------
pats 06 stats
caldwell Tot 760 Rec 61 YAC/per 3.6 YAC/tot 219.6
brown Tot 384 Rec 34 YAC/per 4.4 YAC/tot 149.6
watson Tot 643 Rec 49 YAC/per 4.6 YAC/tot 225.4
graham Tot 235 Rec 21 YAC/per 4.9 YAC/tot 102.9
dillon Tot 147 Rec 15 YAC/per 11.9 YAC/tot 178.5 (notes passes for loss)
(i feel like theres something wrong here. these are the top recievers i can find for brady and yet i cant account for 1500 yards - can anybody fill in the gap? there were about 3 other wrs/rbs that got about 100+yards a piece that i can find but thats still a large discrepancy)

BRADY TOTALS 06 (of above) Tot 2169 YAC/tot 876 YAC% 40
BRADY TOTALS MINUS CALDWELL Tot 1409 YAC/tot 656.4 YAC% 46.58

MANNING TOTAL YARDS 06 (of above) Tot 3996 YAC/tot 1110 YAC% 27.77
MANNING MINUS HARRISON 06 Tot 2630 YAC/tot 806 YAC% 30.65

'
at least you are showing both sides of the picture instead of a biased point of view like before. expect to be called out when you bring up two athletes but only post stats for one of them. people who study statistics who see that in journals, articles, or texts will disregard a lot of what is being said because obvious bias is being shown. I have above average knowledge in statistics. it took you 3 pages to finally do that though so a congrats is in order.

Ok, now I can say without a doubt that Tom Brady is a shitty QB because of one statistic.

ric · Post by **ric** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:51 pm

thanks but i never said shitty. i said "system". he is a very good if not great qb but he is still just a cog in a YAC system and he is not as good as peyton in terms of pure qb skills and overall qb greatness. the reason why it took so long is because you guys kept up the hayte and didnt listen to reason. i do work like this as a last resort. some people just need to see the numbers i guess.

jazzmatazz23 · Post by **jazzmatazz23** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:22 am

Magneto wrote:Peyton Manning is the greatest quarterback of all-time.

agreed 100%. if there was a fantasy draft of every player that has ever played football, I am taking him number 1

jazzmatazz23 · Post by **jazzmatazz23** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:31 am

Even if you want to say that Brady and Manning are system Qb's. They mastered there systems to perfection. They are both top 5 Qb's of all time. And in my opinion will go down 1 and 2 after they both retire.

It is very hard to compare qb's from the differents decades, since the rules and offensive philosophy has changed so much.

Quit with this bull shit YAC

jamrage · Post by **jamrage** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:36 am

ric wrote:[
----------------------
pats 06 stats
caldwell Tot 760 Rec 61 YAC/per 3.6 YAC/tot 219.6
brown Tot 384 Rec 34 YAC/per 4.4 YAC/tot 149.6
watson Tot 643 Rec 49 YAC/per 4.6 YAC/tot 225.4
graham Tot 235 Rec 21 YAC/per 4.9 YAC/tot 102.9
dillon Tot 147 Rec 15 YAC/per 11.9 YAC/tot 178.5 (notes passes for loss)
(i feel like theres something wrong here. these are the top recievers i can find for brady and yet i cant account for 1500 yards - can anybody fill in the gap? there were about 3 other wrs/rbs that got about 100+yards a piece that i can find but thats still a large discrepancy)

Maroney 194 yards receiving
Faulk 356 yards
Gabriel 344
Gaffney 142
Jackson 152

Mike BLAOWery · Post by **Mike BLAOWery** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:40 am

ric wrote:thanks but i never said shitty

my last statement was me being facetious.

Mike BLAOWery · Post by **Mike BLAOWery** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:09 am

we're going to have to agree to disagree. They peyton manning chapter of fans are as hardcore as the Tom Brady Hero worshippers.

ric · Post by **ric** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:19 pm

jamrage thanks.

jazzmatazz23 wrote:Even if you want to say that Brady and Manning are system Qb's. They mastered there systems to perfection. They are both top 5 Qb's of all time. And in my opinion will go down 1 and 2 after they both retire.

It is very hard to compare qb's from the differents decades, since the rules and offensive philosophy has changed so much.

Quit with this bull shit YAC

belichecks asst goes to denver and becomes the O coordinator. kyle orton is playing well. fucking kyle orton. i heard the ex asst WANTED to sign cassel - because hes seen the system before. denver is undefeated now? one loss? the system does the bulk of the work. are you trying to telll me kyle orton is some sort of diamond in the rough?

no. belichecks system MAKES qbs look good. peytons system requires good qbing. the YAC stat is the most accurate way of showing how this manifests itself on field.

if peyton manning plays with mediocrity, the colts will have a mediocre/bad season. if tom brady plays below his level the pats will still have a very decent season. the pats were 11-5 with cassel at the helm. thats the system.

we're going to have to agree to disagree. They peyton manning chapter of fans are as hardcore as the Tom Brady Hero worshippers

hand shake then. but the system made brady. he did get better physically though. would brady have been at the same level elsewhere? very doubtful.

naturalborn103 · Post by **naturalborn103** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:04 pm

ric wrote:jamrage thanks.

jazzmatazz23 wrote:Even if you want to say that Brady and Manning are system Qb's. They mastered there systems to perfection. They are both top 5 Qb's of all time. And in my opinion will go down 1 and 2 after they both retire.

It is very hard to compare qb's from the differents decades, since the rules and offensive philosophy has changed so much.

Quit with this bull shit YAC
belichecks asst goes to denver and becomes the O coordinator. kyle orton is playing well. fucking kyle orton. i heard the ex asst WANTED to sign cassel - because hes seen the system before. denver is undefeated now? one loss? the system does the bulk of the work. are you trying to telll me kyle orton is some sort of diamond in the rough? no. belichecks system MAKES qbs look good. peytons system requires good qbing. the YAC stat is the most accurate way of showing how this manifests itself on field.

if peyton manning plays with mediocrity, the colts will have a mediocre/bad season. if tom brady plays below his level the pats will still have a very decent season. the pats were 11-5 with cassel at the helm. thats the system.

we're going to have to agree to disagree. They peyton manning chapter of fans are as hardcore as the Tom Brady Hero worshippers
hand shake then. but the system made brady. he did get better physically though. would brady have been at the same level elsewhere? very doubtful.

Hows Notre Dame doing?

eternalreflection · Post by **eternalreflection** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:22 am

its not notre dame's offense that is the problem

ric · Post by **ric** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:42 am

^^ exactly

naturalborn103 wrote:Hows Notre Dame doing?

clausen, at least before the USC game, was the number one rated qb in the nation. they were 27th in scoring and 10th in total offense with a 4-1 record so....its not like theyre playing poorly on offense. dont even get me started on how golden tate IS the plan when clausen cant seem to connect elsewhere (which seems to happen fairly often)

let me make another connection from clausen to brady. just riffing off here. brady, a comeback king right? clausen - another come back dude, right? im not denying them the qualities of on field leadership (though i really couldnt speak for clausen not having seen that many ND games in the past couple years) but when you have belichecks system calling the plays....you gotta wonder, whos really more responsible? you think those coaches dont scheme for exactly the types of situations they face?

Tweak Da Leak · Post by **Tweak Da Leak** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:14 pm

ric wrote:jamrage thanks.

jazzmatazz23 wrote:Even if you want to say that Brady and Manning are system Qb's. They mastered there systems to perfection. They are both top 5 Qb's of all time. And in my opinion will go down 1 and 2 after they both retire.

It is very hard to compare qb's from the differents decades, since the rules and offensive philosophy has changed so much.

Quit with this bull shit YAC
belichecks asst goes to denver and becomes the O coordinator. kyle orton is playing well. fucking kyle orton. i heard the ex asst WANTED to sign cassel - because hes seen the system before. denver is undefeated now? one loss? the system does the bulk of the work. are you trying to telll me kyle orton is some sort of diamond in the rough? no. belichecks system MAKES qbs look good. peytons system requires good qbing. the YAC stat is the most accurate way of showing how this manifests itself on field.

if peyton manning plays with mediocrity, the colts will have a mediocre/bad season. if tom brady plays below his level the pats will still have a very decent season. the pats were 11-5 with cassel at the helm. thats the system.

we're going to have to agree to disagree. They peyton manning chapter of fans are as hardcore as the Tom Brady Hero worshippers
hand shake then. but the system made brady. he did get better physically though. would brady have been at the same level elsewhere? very doubtful.

Kyle Orton went 12-4 on the Bears I guess they have some sort of revolutionary offensive system in place too huh.

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