Official NBA offseason thread

The Rapping Coffin · Post by **The Rapping Coffin** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:43 pm

That article is absolute horse shit. I don't have time to break it down right now, but it lacks any context about the Denver Nuggets of the past 6 years. I've watched that team more than any besides the Celtics the last 10 years, and that article is rubbish. The dude glossed over career stats and cherry picked them to fit his argument.

Bottomline: you need 3 stars to win in the NBA now. Melo and Lopez is a great start.

Gregg Popabitch · Post by **Gregg Popabitch** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:47 pm

Carmelo Anthony is both overrated and underrated at the same time.

Carmelo is a top 10 basketball player. He is a top 3 scorer in the NBA (Kobe and Durant are the other 2) and an offensive juggernaut. He is one of those guys where if your whole team is cold, it's all good because you still have Melo around to carry you on the offensive end of the court. Players like that are invaluable. People nitpick players and say they can't do this and they can't do that, but if you have one discernible skill and you do it at an elite level.....you are extremely valuable in this league.

The Rapping Coffin · Post by **The Rapping Coffin** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:09 pm

Being a great defensive player is overrated too. Winning team defense is about the system, having one great anchor, and commitment. The 2008 Celtics started Paul Pierce and Ray Allen, and neither were known as good defenders.

Reason · Post by **Reason** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:17 pm

word i wouldn't put paul over melo either right now bc of uncertainty

and omni it is easy to dismiss "young core" but when ur untradeable asset is young (lopez) and ur top 3 talent pick (favors) is young AND you're taking away TWO first-rounders AND a young (still) harris who could easily play a tony parker role (though not as efficently/well)

thats a lot of youbg core thats not young fpr the sake of saying it but also really talented imo

all for one guy who by all accounts can be a dumbass and hothead? injury risk alone scares me. one career ending injury for four players?

Reason · Post by **Reason** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:20 pm

on the other hand i do agree with the idea that at the end of te day the object of the game is to put the ball in the hole and melo is third to durant/kobe in terms of pure scoring

VideoKilledThe · Post by **VideoKilledThe** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:24 pm

Gilbert Subpoenas wrote:Carmelo Anthony is both overrated and underrated at the same time.

I can't believe we are even debating whether Melo is top ten. He may not be an all time great, but he is easily one of the best doing it right now.

Gregg Popabitch · Post by **Gregg Popabitch** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:10 pm

VideoKilledThe wrote:
Gilbert Subpoenas wrote:Carmelo Anthony is both overrated and underrated at the same time.

I can't believe we are even debating whether Melo is top ten. He may not be an all time great, but he is easily one of the best doing it right now.

i am not fence sitting.

look at this thread and tell me i'm wrong.

everyone here thinks he's either fundamentally flawed or ridiculously awesome

The Rapping Coffin · Post by **The Rapping Coffin** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:22 pm

Reason wrote:word i wouldn't put paul over melo either right now bc of uncertainty

and omni it is easy to dismiss "young core" but when ur untradeable asset is young (lopez) and ur top 3 talent pick (favors) is young AND you're taking away TWO first-rounders AND a young (still) harris who could easily play a tony parker role (though not as efficently/well)

thats a lot of youbg core thats not young fpr the sake of saying it but also really talented imo

all for one guy who by all accounts can be a dumbass and hothead? injury risk alone scares me. one career ending injury for four players?

Reason- I think you are getting a top 10 player, the best clutch player in the NBA, a top 5 scorer, and the face of your franchise. IF the Nets get Melo and another big piece in 2012 they can take over the NY basketball market. Do Favors and Harris make you a title contender in 5 years? Maybe, maybe not. Favors could bust and the Nets are the new T-Wolves, or Favors could be good and they are the next Trailblazers (underachieving team of youngins who never take the next step).

There were actually people in Boston who didn't want to give up Al Jefferson for KG. KG only gave the Celtics one great year (Melo gives you at least 4 great seasons), and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Would you really turn down Melo deal because of Derrick Favors? Is the mystery box that sexy?

There is reason that Melo looks like the star of stars on the Olympic teams. He's really freakin good. Not Lebron/Durant good, but just a couple notches below that. It's easier to find the third star of the Melo/Lopez/? than hoping Favors is good in 4 years.

Gregg Popabitch · Post by **Gregg Popabitch** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:30 pm

Let me just say one thing.

Brook Lopez is on the verge. When i said he was a brad Daugerhty that blocks shots 2 years ago, I didn't think i was going to be THIS spot on.

If you put a perimeter superstar around him, that team is making the playoffs now and contending for a ship in 2 years.

The Rapping Coffin · Post by **The Rapping Coffin** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:32 pm

Gilbert Subpoenas wrote:Let me just say one thing.

Brook Lopez is on the verge. When i said he was a brad Daugerhty that blocks shots 2 years ago, I didn't think i was going to be THIS spot on.

If you put a perimeter superstar around him, that team is making the playoffs now and contending for a ship in 2 years.

YES!!!

I was saying all summer that Lopez was way more appealing than either Rose or Bosh as the Robin to Lebron or Wade's Batman. Hopefully Melo understands how good this kid could be.

Reason · Post by **Reason** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:43 pm

i guess we'll all see. i am def fence-sitting cuz i see both sides...i could see melo paying off more immediate dividends while still being around to possibly pay off more cuz of his relative youth..but i could also see favors/pick/pick/lack of harris possibly hurting more after a couple/few years

Gregg Popabitch · Post by **Gregg Popabitch** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:44 pm

Let me also add, that Charlotte is sneakily heisting in this trade.

Devin Harris improves their squad a lot.

If this trade happens, the Knicks are fucked and I don't just mean by losing out on Melo. They had a decent shot at making the back end of the playoffs but with the Nets improving and the Bobcats getting a PG, this could mean the Knicks will have no lottery pick to show for this year if they don't the playoffs again.

naturalborn103 · Post by **naturalborn103** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:02 pm

So who is he better then?

Kobe
Lebron
Duncan
D Williams
Durant
Wade
Gasol
Howard
Nowitzki
Scalabrine
Nash
CP3

If you say CP3 doesn't count, then who else?? And if this trade does go through, the East star power is ridiculous.

VideoKilledThe · Post by **VideoKilledThe** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:03 pm

Bobcats would have to send Augustin to the Nets as part of the deal, as well.

Brook Lopez is the shit. I'd take him over Dwight Howard.

Gregg Popabitch · Post by **Gregg Popabitch** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:51 am

VideoKilledThe wrote:Bobcats would have to send Augustin to the Nets as part of the deal, as well.

Brook Lopez is the shit. I'd take him over Dwight Howard.

1) Nets have asked for Augustin but apparently he isn't a deal breaker. My blogging buddy told me that one of his boys in the nets office said the deal is done and is going to break saturday. i'm hoping it's bs. my buddy woudn't lie to me but i'm hoping his boy at the nets office would.

2) I love brook lopez but Dwight howard shuts shit down on 2 facets of the game. I cannot agree with that assessment.

Boris. · Post by **Boris.** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:52 am

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/09/24/aldr ... ef:nbahpt1

according to this article the trade is a done deal, denver are just waiting on pulling the trigger and jazz are doing the trade because of salary relief.

I think Melo isn't overrated, as Popa said he is one of rare players who can go in god mode and carry your team. And with the god mode usually comes a winners ego...

Reason · Post by **Reason** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:32 am

Blatche just got 35 mill over 5 years

Positive A · Post by **Positive A** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:54 am

Reason wrote:Blatche just got 35 mill over 5 years

I like it. I kind of like Blatche. I think a trio of him, Wall and Arenas can do nice things. Throw in Javale (who can have a decent breakout type season)? Kind of nice...

Escobar305 · Post by **Escobar305** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:02 pm

Melo's about to get that Russian money.

Gregg Popabitch · Post by **Gregg Popabitch** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:19 pm

Positive A wrote:
Reason wrote:Blatche just got 35 mill over 5 years

I like it. I kind of like Blatche. I think a trio of him, Wall and Arenas can do nice things. Throw in Javale (who can have a decent breakout type season)? Kind of nice...

I'd like to see blatche become a better passer, defender, and overall teammate before I commit 7 mill a year to him. But i can understand the reasoning.

Positive A · Post by **Positive A** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:23 pm

Gilbert Subpoenas wrote:
Positive A wrote:
Reason wrote:Blatche just got 35 mill over 5 years

I like it. I kind of like Blatche. I think a trio of him, Wall and Arenas can do nice things. Throw in Javale (who can have a decent breakout type season)? Kind of nice...
I'd like to see blatche become a better passer, defender, and overall teammate before I commit 7 mill a year to him. But i can understand the reasoning.

I think he's a pretty damn good passer already. From what I saw of him, admittedly not that much, I was surprised at how good of a passer he actually was.

The teammate thing though - that's the biggie. By all accounts, he's a bit of a loose cannon.

Sankofa · Post by **Sankofa** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:24 pm

Positive A wrote:Throw in Javale (who can have a decent breakout type season)?

My concern is that Javale will always be a "on the verge of having a breakout season" type player. He's got all the physical tools to be great and should be averaging 12 boards and 2-3 blocks per game on raw (providing he stays out of foul trouble) talent. Until he learns to play, he's going to be another tantalizing "maybe" in the pantheon of potential.

Gregg Popabitch · Post by **Gregg Popabitch** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:25 pm

Why do you think he's a good passer?

Reason · Post by **Reason** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:28 pm

Gilbert Subpoenas wrote:Why do you think he's a good passer?

why do you think he's not?

from the wiz games i saw one of his advantages against other bigs trying to guard him is that he can put it on the floor and is skilled at certain passes usually reserved for guards...not that he isn't careless or bumbling sometimes, but he's got a smoothness to his offensive moves and passes that make me a believer in his potential...his brain not so much

the other knocks on him that you mentioned are issues though

Positive A · Post by **Positive A** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:30 pm

Gilbert Subpoenas wrote:Why do you think he's a good passer?

Good vision and pretty accurate from what I saw. As I said, I didn't really watch many Wizard games, but he seemed pretty good at hitting cutters from the post.

I mean, the guy had some pretty high assist games last season. Pretty solid from your 4 imo.

Gregg Popabitch · Post by **Gregg Popabitch** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:34 pm

Positive A wrote:
Gilbert Subpoenas wrote:Why do you think he's a good passer?
Good vision and pretty accurate from what I saw. As I said, I didn't really watch many Wizard games, but he seemed pretty good at hitting cutters from the post.

I mean, the guy had some pretty high assist games last season. Pretty solid from your 4 imo.

I see exactly what you and rzn are saying but because of his better vision than most 4s, does he try to force a pass that could potentially lead to another basket? does he hold on to the ball for longer than he should before he passes? Would he have been better off making a hockey assist rather than a true assist so he can get a better contract? I admittedly haven't seen too many blatche games so everything I've criticized him for has been through a narrow scope.

Positive A · Post by **Positive A** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:34 pm

I mean, Bill Walton he ain't, but his passing shouldn't be a concern.

Positive A · Post by **Positive A** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:36 pm

Gilbert Subpoenas wrote:
Positive A wrote:
Gilbert Subpoenas wrote:Why do you think he's a good passer?
Good vision and pretty accurate from what I saw. As I said, I didn't really watch many Wizard games, but he seemed pretty good at hitting cutters from the post.

I mean, the guy had some pretty high assist games last season. Pretty solid from your 4 imo.
I see exactly what you and rzn are saying but because of his better vision than most 4s, does he try to force a pass that could potentially lead to another basket? does he hold on to the ball for longer than he should before he passes? Would he have been better off making a hockey assist rather than a true assist so he can get a better contract? I admittedly haven't seen too many blatche games so everything I've criticized him for has been through a narrow scope.

You could say turnovers could be an issue because he put up some high totals in that regard.... But at the end of last year, the Wiz were basically a patch work team, right? I mean, maybe he had the ball a lot more then he will this season coming up. We'll see.

Positive A · Post by **Positive A** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:37 pm

Sankofa wrote:
Positive A wrote:Throw in Javale (who can have a decent breakout type season)?
My concern is that Javale will always be a "on the verge of having a breakout season" type player. He's got all the physical tools to be great and should be averaging 12 boards and 2-3 blocks per game on raw (providing he stays out of foul trouble) talent. Until he learns to play, he's going to be another tantalizing "maybe" in the pantheon of potential.

I'm thinking that AT THE VERY LEAST the US tryout camp boosted his game and confidence up a little bit...

Reason · Post by **Reason** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:05 pm

yea not totally fair to judge blatche because he was passing to some bums/headcases (read: nick "frustrating" young)

we shall see. mcgee by all accounts has improved his low post game and has a nice rainbowish jumper from fifteen feet at all angles, or at least nicER

plus he seems like the type of cat who is not entitled which i dig. he's like a thicker (nh), non-insane, smart sean williams