Reggie Jackson's mouth

[Philaflava]

got him into some trouble

Jackson also let it be known who he thinks shouldn't be current members in the Hall.

"I didn't see Kirby Puckett as a Hall of Famer," Jackson told SI. "I didn't see Gary Carter as a Hall of Famer. I didn't see Don Sutton as a Hall of Famer. I didn't see Phil Niekro as a Hall of Famer. As much as I like Jim Rice, I'm not so sure he's a Hall of Famer."

Reggie Jackson calls out A-Rod
Updated: July 6, 2012, 9:47 AM ET
By Andrew Marchand | ESPNNewYork.com



Hall of Famer Reggie Jackson thinks all of Alex Rodriguez's numbers are tainted because of his admission to performance-enhancing drug use. Jackson also doesn't believe players who used steroids should be allowed into the Hall of Fame.

"Al's a very good friend," Jackson said of the New York Yankees third baseman in the latest issue of Sports Illustrated. "But I think there are real questions about his numbers. As much as I like him, what he admitted about his usage does cloud some of his records."


Jackson is a special adviser to the Yankees and frequently is around the clubhouse.

In February 2009, Rodriguez only admitted to using steroids during a three-year stretch after he signed a $252 million contract with the Texas Rangers. Entering this weekend's series with the Boston Red Sox, Rodriguez has 642 career home runs, placing him fifth all-time. After this season, A-Rod, who turns 37 this month, has five years left on his contract. He is hitting .266 with 13 homers and 36 RBIs this year.

After being traded to the Yankees and then opting out of his contract, Rodriguez was re-signed by the club in 2007 to a 10-year deal that includes multimillion-dollar incentives for tying home run milestones such as Willie Mays' 660 figure and Barry Bonds' all-time record of 762. The bonuses, which could total $30 million, were agreed upon before Rodriguez' admission to PED use.

If someone such as Rodriguez or Bonds or anyone else that has been linked to PED use is voted into the Hall by the Baseball Writers' Association of America, Jackson predicts there will be a boycott.


Jackson, 66, left the door open a bit for himself in regards to Andy Pettitte. He thinks the Yankees' left-hander eventually will be voted into the Hall, making Pettitte a different case compared to other alleged or admitted users.

"The question is going to be a guy like Andy Pettitte, who admitted that he got involved for a while, but who is so universally respected in the game," Jackson told SI. "I think he'll get in, but there will be a lot of (members) who won't go."

Jackson seemed to indicate to SI that if Pettitte were inducted into the Hall he still may attend.

"He's an awfully good friend," Jackson said. "I've known Andy since he was 20. I'll leave it there."

Jackson also let it be known who he thinks shouldn't be current members in the Hall.

"I didn't see Kirby Puckett as a Hall of Famer," Jackson told SI. "I didn't see Gary Carter as a Hall of Famer. I didn't see Don Sutton as a Hall of Famer. I didn't see Phil Niekro as a Hall of Famer. As much as I like Jim Rice, I'm not so sure he's a Hall of Famer."

Jackson didn't think Bert Blyleven should be voted in, either.

"Blyleven wasn't even the dominant pitcher of his era; it was Jack Morris," Jackson said.

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Carter died in February after battling brain cancer, and some former Mets who played with "The Kid" took exception to Jackson's singling out the catcher as not Hall of Fame-worthy.

"That's kind of sticky," Mets broadcaster Keith Hernandez, a teammate of Carter's in the mid-1980s, told the New York Post. "I think that he deserves to be in. I'm glad that he's in, so I'll disagree with Reggie and keep it at that."

Said former Mets pitcher Ron Darling, who threw to Carter in the late-'80s, "Reggie is entitled to his opinion. There are other players in the Hall of Fame that baseball historians may not feel as though they should be in. That being said, the timing (stinks).

"Reggie has an opinion. I'm sure there are some who said that (Sandy) Koufax's 165 wins shouldn't get in. There's always silly comments. Listen, Reggie's not the first person to say that Gary doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame. I'm sure if [Jackson] could have a do-over, he would.''

[Dan]

got him into some trouble

Jackson also let it be known who he thinks shouldn't be current members in the Hall.

"I didn't see Kirby Puckett as a Hall of Famer," Jackson told SI. "I didn't see Gary Carter as a Hall of Famer. I didn't see Don Sutton as a Hall of Famer. I didn't see Phil Niekro as a Hall of Famer. As much as I like Jim Rice, I'm not so sure he's a Hall of Famer."

I agree with Reggie. Pretty sure none of those players were voted in on the first ballot.

I'm a believer that if you don't get voted in on the first ballot then you shouldn't get a second chance. The Baseball Hall of Fame is an elite club and it should stay that way.
Jim Rice was a great player, but not Cooperstown worthy. Let him be a part of the Red Sox Hall of Fame, but not for all of baseball.

[Gregg Popabitch]

i'm pretty sure kirby got in on first ballot.

[Reason]

reggie jackson is top 10 realest motherfuckers alive

[Tommy Bunz]

got him into some trouble

Jackson also let it be known who he thinks shouldn't be current members in the Hall.

"I didn't see Kirby Puckett as a Hall of Famer," Jackson told SI. "I didn't see Gary Carter as a Hall of Famer. I didn't see Don Sutton as a Hall of Famer. I didn't see Phil Niekro as a Hall of Famer. As much as I like Jim Rice, I'm not so sure he's a Hall of Famer."

I agree with Reggie. Pretty sure none of those players were voted in on the first ballot.

I'm a believer that if you don't get voted in on the first ballot then you shouldn't get a second chance. The Baseball Hall of Fame is an elite club and it should stay that way.
Jim Rice was a great player, but not Cooperstown worthy. Let him be a part of the Red Sox Hall of Fame, but not for all of baseball.

No offense but that is pretty dumb.

Players who didn't make it in their first ballot:
Cy Young
Harmon Killebrew
Jimmie Foxx
Eddie Matthews
Joe Dimaggio
Yogi Berra

Just to name a few. The Hall of Fame would be less than 50 players if you limited it to guys who made it in the first year they were eligible.
Although I do agree with you that Jim Rice was overrated and only got in because he played for Boston.

[Reason]

the only sane thing to do is judge numbers and players in the context of the era being the 'steroids era'

bonds/arod should be 1st ballot b/c they were the best in their era

[eternalreflection]

it's funny that all these old timers come out of the woodworks but never mention amphetamines that they all took and have as big an impact on performance as steriods

[Kid That's Lifeless]

I knew eternal was going to show up in this thread.

[Philaflava]

got him into some trouble

Jackson also let it be known who he thinks shouldn't be current members in the Hall.

"I didn't see Kirby Puckett as a Hall of Famer," Jackson told SI. "I didn't see Gary Carter as a Hall of Famer. I didn't see Don Sutton as a Hall of Famer. I didn't see Phil Niekro as a Hall of Famer. As much as I like Jim Rice, I'm not so sure he's a Hall of Famer."

I agree with Reggie. Pretty sure none of those players were voted in on the first ballot.

I'm a believer that if you don't get voted in on the first ballot then you shouldn't get a second chance. The Baseball Hall of Fame is an elite club and it should stay that way.
Jim Rice was a great player, but not Cooperstown worthy. Let him be a part of the Red Sox Hall of Fame, but not for all of baseball.

He may be right about a few of them and I'm sure there are plenty more, but to speak about Carter at this time is kinda classless. Also, Kirby had such a sick post season record. Plus he was top 7 in MVP voting 7 times, 10-time all star and what 2 WS rings? He was a 1st ballot.

[jamrage]

it's funny that all these old timers come out of the woodworks but never mention amphetamines that they all took and have as big an impact on performance as steriods

[Tommy Bunz]

it's funny that all these old timers come out of the woodworks but never mention amphetamines that they all took and have as big an impact on performance as steriods

I'm actually with eternal on this one

Not mention (and i think i just said this in the reg season thread not long ago) that steroids have been used to boost performance since olympic athletes starting using them in the 1950's. There's documentation that Pro football players were using them in the 60's. In many cases it was the teams themselves that were giving them to players. To think that baseball players, who are some of the most competitive people on earth, wouldn't be aware of their existence and experimenting with them as well, without testing or regulations in place is seriously naive and borderline stupid. Congress was actually looking into the drug problem in baseball back in the 70's.

Steroid use certainly didn't start with Jose Canseco in the late 80's. Players from the 60's and 70's were not any more moral than players from our generation (if anything they were probably less so). There just wasn't any way for them to get caught and they were actually protected from the media back then. There are certainly already guys in the Hall that were users and it wouldn't even surprise me if Reggie himself used them. Especially considering he was one of Canseco's mentors.

Here's a good article from BP on greenies
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/artic ... cleid=4740

Here's documentation of drug use in pro football from the 60's to the present
http://www.utsandiego.com/sports/200809 ... 1list.html

Article about congress in the 70's and drug use in baseball back then
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/ ... l-of-fame/

[D. James]

As BBWAA voters try their hardest to ensure that no filthy steroids users sneak into the Hall of Fame, it’s probably a good idea that they go back and read the Mitchell Report. As they do, they should pay special attention to this passage on page 28:

In 1973, a Congressional subcommittee announced that its staff had completed an “in depth study into the use of illegal and dangerous drugs in sports” including professional baseball. The subcommittee concluded that “the degree of improper drug use – primarily amphetamines and anabolic steroids – can only be described as alarming.”

In 1973 anabolic steroids were not a controlled substance in the United States. So it wasn't illegal and I don't think people knew about the so-called "dangers" of using. What evidence does this subcommittee have and whose names are they naming? We can't say players from the 70s don't belong in the Hall of Fame if we don't even know who these players are that they're accusing.

[Tommy Bunz]

What is your point?
All that matters was that they existed and were being used and that this holier than thou shit a lot of the old-timers are spewing is nothing but horseshit.
Steroids were banned from the olympics in the early 70's. You're giving the players too much credit.

[jamrage]

For the record I still think that steroids have much more of an effect on performance (building muscle and healing) than greenies (improved alertness and therefore reaction).

I think the homerun numbers (and reduction of those numbers since the crackdown) bear that out.

[ThaJim2]

As BBWAA voters try their hardest to ensure that no filthy steroids users sneak into the Hall of Fame, it’s probably a good idea that they go back and read the Mitchell Report. As they do, they should pay special attention to this passage on page 28:

In 1973, a Congressional subcommittee announced that its staff had completed an “in depth study into the use of illegal and dangerous drugs in sports” including professional baseball. The subcommittee concluded that “the degree of improper drug use – primarily amphetamines and anabolic steroids – can only be described as alarming.”

In 1973 anabolic steroids were not a controlled substance in the United States. So it wasn't illegal and I don't think people knew about the so-called "dangers" of using. What evidence does this subcommittee have and whose names are they naming? We can't say players from the 70s don't belong in the Hall of Fame if we don't even know who these players are that they're accusing.

Then we cant say any player that has been accused of using PED before 2005. They where not against the rules of Baseball until then so hence they were not "cheating". The commissioners letter from 92 is meaningless as this is an issue that had to be collectively bargained and was not until 2005.

Before you say well they are illegal to use. The problem with that is many. PED are not illegal in all countries and one of the biggest exporters of MLB talent the DR steroids are legal there. Many things are illegal but are allowed in baseball the best example is fighting which is a battery. Pictures throwing balls at players is battery also. And of course you have the greenie issue where just about every player has popped one that has played in the last 50 years that it has been illegal to use them.