alpha wrote:Fucking ouch. I'd feel bad but stats evened out and Billy gambled too hard on that cespedes trade. No reason they don't have a good season next year tho.
Blaming the Yoenis trade is just a lazy and terrible narrative.
Cespedes isn't even a good offensive player, had a .301 OBP this year and he didn't do shit after the trade in Boston either. He's a slightly above average outfielder at best.
To me it looks like Beane was right all along. He recognized that his team was due for some major regression and brought in some of the best players available as reinforcements.
No way the A's even make the 1-game playoff without trading for Lester/Samardzija.
so, just a coincidence that the team went to shit pretty much right when the trade happened?
Yes. Correlation doesn't equal causation. They teach you that shit in middle school.
The team was just as likely to go to shit with Cespedes as it did without him.
Again, Yoenis is NOT a star player. He has a star name cause he's cuban and he's been in some AS games, but he's way more Dayan Viciedo than a Puig or that other guy on the white sox.
Forget sabermetrics, just looking at this from an old-school statistical perspective, what is more valuable to a team?
A corner outfielder with a .296 OBP and just 5 HR in 51 games (with replacement level defense)
OR
A starting pitcher who throws 76 innings with a 2.35 ERA, a 1.07 WHIP and 71 strikeouts?
Beane traded an overrated asset for a much better one, and his team probably wouldn't have made the playoffs without doing so.
The best bats available were guys like Marlon Byrd and Martin Prado. None of them could have made the positive impact that Lester did.
whoa, kinda douchy response there.
1. i know the correlation/causation deal. i learned it in college though. don't recall that in middle school. you musta gone to private school or something.
2. if i'm a gm, i probably do that trade every time.
3. stats and probability don't take into account team chemistry. you can say they may have regressed had they not made the trade, but something changed when they did it, despite picking up the better player in the deal.
peanut butter wrote:
Yea, kinda. Whats not a coincidence is that an offense comprised of mediocre talent that was on a record setting pace for the first half of the season fell apart. But it was a bad idea to trade away anyone who was a remotely talented hitter. If anything, they should have been trying to move for more bats at the deadline, rather than try to win a championship with a lineup built around guys like Brandon Moss, Derek Norris, John Jaso, Coco Crisp & Steven Vogt.
PEACE
this is the kind of statement I agree with most after following the A's all season. I loved the Shark trade even though they gave up Russell. But even though the Lester trade was nice and obv made them better, just seemed extra when they had Grey, Kazmir and Shark.
Fact is they were due for regression and all the pitching in the world wouldnt help when you have a bottom third lineup that hit like the best in baseball for 2/3 of the season. Even the Cards(was it last year or the year before?) that had that crazy team BA with runners on? Didn't fucking do shit.
Team chemistry is a lot like clutch hitting. It exists, but its not quantifiable.
Almost every team has good chemistry. But there is no actual link to chemistry and performance. Do you play a sport better when you are happy? Some might argue you play better angry. Either argument is dumb. Talent trumps all.
Its an easy narrative to say that Oakland's chemistry took a hit when they traded Cespedes, even though that story has never actually came out of that clubhouse. Players said that they were sad to see Cespedes go, of course they did. But don't you think their team chemistry got an even bigger boost when they brought in two aces?
And its not like there were a ton of Spanish speaking players on the A's either, they probably have the whitest team in the league. There were probably 3 players on the whole team who could even speak to Cespedes.
And again, Cespedes isn't a good player, or a good hitter. The lineup was just as shitty with him as it was without him.
Gray was in his first full season. Kazmir was only in his second year since his miraculous comeback. The rotation looked like a strength but its not like it was a sure thing.
If Beane could've gotten a bat that was as impactful as Lester/Shark I'm sure he would have.