2014-15 NBA Off-Season Thread

[alpha]

Didn't Tim Hardaway invent the crossover?

[Blockhead]

Glad I opened this conversation up.

[capable_keL]

but what would separate a guy like Tyreke Evans from Oscar Robertson?

You should be perma banned from the sports bar for this.

[naturalborn103]

He looks pretty athletic.

[Blockhead]

He looks pretty athletic.

For the sake of argument, I'm pretty sure Kenny "sky" walker could have done that too. (it was impressive though)

[Hayzoos]

Look at the dudes he's playing against. You mean to tell me that if Tyreke can average 20/5/5 in today's NBA that he wouldn't dominate back in Oscar's day? Come on now

[naturalborn103]

Adam Morrison is basically larry bird if you sent him to 80s.

[Gregg Popabitch]

I think if you look at it from an athletic standpoint, then yeah....the athletes we have nowadays are better. There is no question. I also feel like that is also due to natural evolution, better nutrition, and better athletic/conditioning regimens from the jump. It's silly to think "oh if we transport so and so in his prime in a time machine, he'd dominate". You'd have to think about that player born in that era with the same nutrition, athletic/conditioning regimens, etc or you're looking at it through a narrow scope. Imagine Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell if they were born in this era? Russell might be two inches taller and be an even better athlete and might have played longer. Not only were they both the best basketball players in the world in college but they were both amongst the best track and field athletes of their time. Track and Field somewhat proves my point. 100 meter times have been improving every 5 years or so. If you transported Carl Lewis into our era now and gave him the same advantages that we have, he wouldn't run faster than he did back then? Also, APBRmetrics, sportsvue, and science in general have changed the way pros play basketball now. I realize this may be opening pandora's box but I also feel like this argument in general is also pandora's box. I make this argument every time someone brings this up.

Skill wise, it's not even close. Passing, shooting, and post up play were so much better in the 80's and 90's, it's not even funny. There were so many players back then who can make pull up jumpers in the NBA game back then. Nowadays, not so much. I blame AAU for the lack of skill level amongst today's pros. You could also blame players going straight to the pros after high school and the one and done rule to a certain extent which has necessitated more coaches on NBA staffs. Also, expansion has allowed for us to watch some piss poor talent because of the thinning of the talent pool.

If Demar Derozan played in the 80's, he wouldn't be an all star. I feel like that is laughable.

And the Michael Jordan being a GM theory is beyond stupid. Jerry West is the best GM of the modern era and he played in the 60's and 70's. 80% of GMs now played in the 80's and 90's. Really?

[Gregg Popabitch]

Adam Morrison is basically larry bird if you sent him to 80s.

This better be sarcasm or you are one of the dumbest people to talk basketball on these boards.

[alpha]

I think you missed the part where we were all making fun of him.

[Gregg Popabitch]

I think you missed the part where we were all making fun of him.

if you're referring to my reply to nat born, touche.

if you're referring to my post before that, peanut butter said players today are smarter and more talented and blockhead opened this whole convo up.

[alpha]

Yeah it's the Adam Morrison thing. I agree basketball players were more skilled back in the day.

[naturalborn103]

Adam Morrison is basically larry bird if you sent him to 80s.

This better be sarcasm or you are one of the dumbest people to talk basketball on these boards.

I was making fun of hayzoos comments about Morrison dominating 80s

[Kid That's Lifeless]

I think if you look at it from an athletic standpoint, then yeah....the athletes we have nowadays are better. There is no question. I also feel like that is also due to natural evolution, better nutrition, and better athletic/conditioning regimens from the jump. It's silly to think "oh if we transport so and so in his prime in a time machine, he'd dominate". You'd have to think about that player born in that era with the same nutrition, athletic/conditioning regimens, etc or you're looking at it through a narrow scope. Imagine Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell if they were born in this era? Russell might be two inches taller and be an even better athlete and might have played longer. Not only were they both the best basketball players in the world in college but they were both amongst the best track and field athletes of their time. Track and Field somewhat proves my point. 100 meter times have been improving every 5 years or so. If you transported Carl Lewis into our era now and gave him the same advantages that we have, he wouldn't run faster than he did back then? Also, APBRmetrics, sportsvue, and science in general have changed the way pros play basketball now. I realize this may be opening pandora's box but I also feel like this argument in general is also pandora's box. I make this argument every time someone brings this up.

[Blockhead]

Pop, I understand and agree with everything you said but my entire point was the impossible fantasy idea of bringing a player from today, as is, and throwing him in with the players of that era. IT all stems from gloss complaining how the game today is not what it sued to be and , i believe, he even said the players back then were better athletes. i just wanted to clarify where the idea was coming from. Clearly, if demar derozen is born in the 60's, he'd be a decent bench player who could dunk well in the 80's.

[unbelievable dickhead]

i recently watched a bulls-hawks regular season game from 87 and was pretty much blown away by the level of competition and execution on every play on both teams.

i watched the NBA finals the last few years and it felt like every game had a series where its turnover, turnover, miss a 3, turnover... level of play i used to associate with the women's game.

#oldguy #facts

[Gregg Popabitch]

Pop, I understand and agree with everything you said but my entire point was the impossible fantasy idea of bringing a player from today, as is, and throwing him in with the players of that era. IT all stems from gloss complaining how the game today is not what it sued to be and , i believe, he even said the players back then were better athletes. i just wanted to clarify where the idea was coming from. Clearly, if demar derozen is born in the 60's, he'd be a decent bench player who could dunk well in the 80's.

Fair enough.

[capable_keL]

i recently watched a bulls-hawks regular season game from 87 and was pretty much blown away by the level of competition and execution on every play on both teams.

i watched the NBA finals the last few years and it felt like every game had a series where its turnover, turnover, miss a 3, turnover... level of play i used to associate with the women's game.

#oldguy #facts

Hayzoos, bro, read this twice homie... Think about how much hoops you seen..... Then think about all the buckets you dont know about.

There would never be a Tyreke Evans if not for Oscar. Learn the history then by god respect it

[Gregg Popabitch]

In 30 years, kids may look at Shaq's time during his era and think the same thing Hayzoos did about Wilt Chamberlain.

And they'd be stupid because of it.

[capable_keL]

In 30 years kids wont be as stupid as Hayzoos because we would have eliminated the ignorance strain of DNA

[Philaflava]

Pop, I understand and agree with everything you said but my entire point was the impossible fantasy idea of bringing a player from today, as is, and throwing him in with the players of that era. IT all stems from gloss complaining how the game today is not what it sued to be and , i believe, he even said the players back then were better athletes. i just wanted to clarify where the idea was coming from. Clearly, if demar derozen is born in the 60's, he'd be a decent bench player who could dunk well in the 80's.

I didn't say athletes. Not many players of the 80s were built like Bron and could play like him. But we're talking about a once in a generation kinda guy. Overall, the players today are soft. They don't have the competition or talent like they did in the 80s. A lot of this is because they're very young, the game pace changed, but still. I don't see centers today like I saw in the 80s and 90s. How many true point guards are theree today. Demar DeRozen is nothing but Kenny Walker part 2.

[Gregg Popabitch]

Pop, I understand and agree with everything you said but my entire point was the impossible fantasy idea of bringing a player from today, as is, and throwing him in with the players of that era. IT all stems from gloss complaining how the game today is not what it sued to be and , i believe, he even said the players back then were better athletes. i just wanted to clarify where the idea was coming from. Clearly, if demar derozen is born in the 60's, he'd be a decent bench player who could dunk well in the 80's.

I didn't say athletes. Not many players of the 80s were built like Bron and could play like him. But we're talking about a once in a generation kinda guy. Overall, the players today are soft. They don't have the competition or talent like they did in the 80s. A lot of this is because they're very young, the game pace changed, but still. I don't see centers today like I saw in the 80s and 90s. How many true point guards are theree today. Demar DeRozen is nothing but Kenny Walker part 2.

We can take this multiple steps further.

When Magic came out, no one ever played PG at that size. When MJ came out in the early 80's, he had a different type of athleticism than anyone else did and his body for a SG didn't look like anyone else's. There was no one like him. When David Robinson came out, NO ONE looked like him and was as athletic as him at that size. When Shaq was playing, there was no one his size with the type of agility and athleticism that he had. And now Bron.

[Philaflava]

All those players played in the same era. Besides Bron, can we use anyone else playing today for this little game?

[Gregg Popabitch]

All those players played in the same era. Besides Bron, can we use anyone else playing today for this little game?

so did Oscar Robertson, Wilt Chamberlain, Lew Alcindor, and Bill Russell. 3 of whom were mentioned in this thread.

Besides Lebron, the only freaks of nature that I can think of in his era are Kevin Durant (I've never seen anyone that tall and long with that much skill and shooting ability), Russell Westbrook (honestly, look at how other PGs have fear in their eyes when they are playing against him. 6'4, built like a tank, and unreal athleticism), Dwyane Wade (Has anyone ever seen a combo guard with that kind of explosion?), Nate Robinson (no explanation necessary), Blake Griffin (the evolutionary Shawn Kemp), and then Dwight Howard before he got hurt, Andre Drummond, and Anthony Davis (all of whom are among the most athletic big men that we'll ever see). I mean, you can also include Dirk in that class because before him, where could you find a 7 footer that can shoot like that? I'm not saying he was as great as Bird but before Bird but was anyone as big as Bird shooting at his type of level? I know some dudes will say Bob McAdoo but would you say he could even shoot like Bird can?

[Blockhead]

Demar DeRozen is nothing but Kenny Walker part 2.

This statement reads as someone who has never seen either of those players play. Just saying.
I know this is a pointless side discussion but Derozen can actually play. Walker was a worthless piece of shit who could only dunk. HUGE difference.

[naturalborn103]

The league is not getting younger.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_league ... experience
Average age of NBA player today is 26 point something.

Gloss, do you enjoy watching the Grizzlies play? Because it sounds like you are clamoring for more teams like that, but I really doubt you would actually enjoy watching them.

[Philaflava]

The teams I have enjoyed watching this season have been OKC, Clippers, Golden State and the Spurs. I really have become immune to the Eastern Con because I am surrounded by everything Heat and the Pacers were fun to watch up until the last 8 weeks or so.

I feel like I share very similar feelings about the current state of NBA with Sir Charles.

[Gregg Popabitch]

I like watching the Grizzlies play when Marc Gasol is healthy. That's old school basketball.

[Big Breeze]

Jordan Adams, UCLA - X
Kyle Anderson, UCLA
Isaiah Austin, Baylor - X
Sim Bhullar, New Mexico State - X
Khem Birch, UNLV - X
Jabari Brown, Missouri - X
Jahii Carson, Arizona State
Semaj Christon, Xavier
Jordan Clarkson, Missouri - X
DeAndre Daniels, UConn - X
Spencer Dinwiddie, Colorado - X
Joel Embiid, Kansas
Tyler Ennis, Syracuse
Aaron Gordon, Arizona
Jerami Grant, Syracuse
Gary Harris, Michigan State
Rodney Hood, Duke
Nick Johnson, Arizona - X
Alex Kirk, New Mexico - X
Zach LaVine, UCLA - X
Eric Moreland, Oregon State - X
K.J. McDaniels, Clemson - X
Mitch McGary, Michigan - X
James Michael McAdoo, North Carolina - X
Johnny O’Bryant, LSU -X
Jabari Parker, Duke
Elfrid Payton, LA-Lafayette
Julius Randle, Kentucky
Glenn Robinson III, Michigan
LaQuinton Ross, Ohio State - X
JaKarr Sampson, St. John's - X
Marcus Smart, Oklahoma State
Roscoe Smith, UNLV - X
Nik Stauskas, Michigan State
Jarnell Stokes, Tennessee - X
Noah Vonleh, Indiana
T.J. Warren, North Carolina
Andrew Wiggins, Kansas
James Young, Kentucky


These are the underclassmen who are attempting to make it to the NBA. There's only 60 spots available, with seniors, school cast offs like PJ Hairston, and international players that will get drafted too. Players with an X may not like their draft position.

[Gregg Popabitch]

Nick Johnson should be a first round baller.