***NFC North Thread***

Sumthin_Funky · Post by **Sumthin_Funky** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:23 pm

Roy Johnson wrote:
wheels wrote:Do you want to hang on to Lovie and Cutler or should the Bears clean house when we lose Urlacher and Briggs?

Do you just keep throwing oddball skill players into a Martz offense or do you trade for young talent and rework this thing?

How much longer do you give the coaching staff?

Do you count last year's successes as legitimate progress, or were they fluky?

I ask you, Roy, where do you stand??
I'm fine with Cutler, Lovie Smith, and even Mike Martz. Jerry Angelo should have been fired years ago, but the McCaskeys are loyal to a fault. These units are bottom 5 in the NFL:

Offensive Line
Wide Receivers
Secondary

With Carimi injured, we'll be trotting out the worst tackle combo in NFL history - JaMarcus Webb/Frank Omiyale

Should we have made it all the way to the NFC Championship game last season? Of course not.

It's gonna take a horrible season to get Jerry Angelo the fuck out of here, unfortunately.

That being said, Bears still have a legit chance of beating GB at home this Sunday, beating CAR at home after that, and possibly losing to Lions. I'm a GB fan, but the Bears are always a threat so long as Cutler isn't on the ground.

wheels · Post by **wheels** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:18 am

^ Please express legit chance as a percentage. I agree that they could win, but they've got to be 5 point dogs at least

My problem with Lovie might sound petty, but he doesn't seem intense enough to be a head coach in the NFL. He's too subdued for me. Martz I feel is force feeding his system into a team that's not equipped to run it. He seems unwilling or unable to accommodate the glaring deficiencies in Oline and at receiver.

an-also · Post by **an-also** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:51 am

Pack favored by 4. It'll be a close ugly game as usual. No matter the records of the two teams, it'll always be close. Look at the scores the last few years.

capable_keL · Post by **capable_keL** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:56 pm

an-also wrote: It'll be a close ugly game as usual

do you actually watch the games?

wheels · Post by **wheels** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:58 pm

I know what he's saying, but with this O-line, secondary, etc. this shouldn't be that close. IMO

Roy Johnson · Post by **Roy Johnson** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:24 pm

What a gem:

Jerry Angelo on O-Line: "We did everything you could possibly do"

Bears general manager Jerry Angelo insisted that his club did plenty to address the offensive line during the offseason.

"We did everything you could possibly do to that position," Angelo told the team's website. "Nobody did more than the Chicago Bears. We drafted a player in the first round. We brought in a player with a lot of NFL experience who is still in his prime.

"We developed young players who are going into their second and third years, including another high draft pick in Chris Williams. We like our eight linemen. That's not an issue. Injuries happen, and then you have to adjust accordingly."

Angelo was referring to rookie offensive tackle Gabe Carimi, who is sidelined for about a month with a dislocated right kneecap, as well as veteran veteran Chris Spencer, who started at right guard against the New Orleans Saints.

Despite a dreadful second half in which quarterback Jay Cutler was sacked six times, Angelo said the offensive line isn't entirely to blame.

"Everything bad that happened on Sunday wasn't all because of poor offensive line play. Believe me when I tell you that," he said. "It was a collective failure. The defense and special teams share part of that as well. So let's not beat up on the offensive line."

But with Carimi expected out and starting right guard Lance Louis still rehabbing an ankle injury, the Bears need veteran backups to step up and be effective.

Asked about his faith in Spencer and Frank Omiyale, Angelo said, "We have to have faith in them.

"We trained them. They're ours. They've got to step up and get it done. It's that simple. You don't like to play musical chairs at any position, but that's particularly true on the offensive line. You want to keep those five guys the same week-in and week-out.

"They don't have to be the best players, but they have to be players who know each other the best on the field. That's football. So obviously that's going to be our challenge, and I'm confident that the coaches are going to get not only the best out of our players but know exactly what they can and can't do and play accordingly."

Angelo pointed to the most obvious key plays, a 79-yard touchdown pass by the Saints on third and long and the sack-fumble of Cutler, when he took a blind-side hit.

"It was a three-point game at that point and I felt we were playing pretty well in a very hostile environment," Angelo said. "Anytime you play in a dome, the crowd noise definitely can have an adverse effect. After that point, the wheels started to come off.

"The mistakes we made led to five more sacks. It was obvious we didn't handle the adversity of the game well enough."

Angelo said the Bears won't have to wait long to see how well they handle blitzes; the Green Bay Packers' defense uses the same approach.

"So we're going to get a real good test to see how far we have come this week," he said.

The Bears are 1-1, and Angelo said there's no need to "push the panic button."

"We know we're a good football team; we just have to go out there and prove it," he said. "It's that simple."

Sean Jensen - Chicago Sun Times

Roy Johnson · Post by **Roy Johnson** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:29 pm

More from Dan Pompei:

Jordy Nelson a force for Packers
Tall receiver showing big-play capability

For the Bears defense, it may be a case of pick your Packers poison on Sunday.

Greg Jennings? Donald Driver? James Jones? Randall Cobb? Jordy Nelson?

Most recently, it has been Nelson who has caused many opponents to choke and gag. He is not supposed to be the most dangerous receiver in the best group of receivers in the NFL, but he has been playing as if he may be.

Against the Panthers on Sunday, he caught only one short pass ג and took it 84 yards for a touchdown. In the Super Bowl last February, he led the Packers with nine catches for 140 yards.

In the six games since the 2010 playoffs began, Nelson has 447 receiving yards and four touchdowns. Jennings has identical numbers, putting them in a tie for the team lead.

So it's clear Nelson, at 26 and in his fourth NFL season, has come of age. He attributes his production spike mostly to enhanced opportunities. But there is a little more to it than that.

Nelson has continued to grow as a receiver and in the Packers' offensive system. He has made progress as a route runner and improved his ability to get off press coverage.

He also has clicked more with quarterback Aaron Rodgers as time has passed.

"Aaron and I have gotten more and more on the same page," Nelson said. "The more time you spend with your quarterback, the more you run what he wants and know how he wants things done, you get better chemistry. ג¦ It's one thing to know the playbook and run the right routes. It's another thing to run it the way Aaron wants it run versus different coverages and leverages, and understanding what he's thinking."

Even though he was a second-round draft pick, Jordan has had to fight for Rodgers' attention, as well as playing time. Even now, he has only seven career starts, and didn't even establish himself as the Packers' third receiver until recently.

"It's tough to get that opportunity," Nelson said. "When you get it, you have to make the most of it."

Playing with such a talented group of receivers clearly has had personal drawbacks for Nelson. But it has had some benefits as well.

Defenses tend to focus most of their attention on Jennings and tight end Jermichael Finley. That creates opportunities for players like Nelson.

"It does help free you up," Nelson said. "When you have someone like Greg on the other side of the field, he's going to get a lot of looks. They may be worried about him, so you are going to get opportunities one-on-one on the backside."

To a degree, that's what happened in the Super Bowl. His performance that day validated Nelson as a quality NFL receiver.

"It reassured the confidence I have that I can perform at this level," he said. "There is not a bigger stage that you'll ever find in our sport. It's something I'll always remember."

When he lines up Sunday against the Bears, Nelson is likely to try to use his height (6-foot-3) and his muscle (215 pounds) against smaller cornerbacks Tim Jennings and D.J. Moore. He will have an advantage of approximately seven inches and 30 pounds on both adversaries.

Nelson is used to looking down on corners, because hardly any of them are as big as he is.

"It might give me a slight advantage on a deep ball," he said. "You just have to attack the ball. I try to be as physical as possible if they are trying to bump. It varies throughout the route. You have to stay true to what you do. If there is a jump ball, you are already given a few inches, so you have to make the most of it."

Just when Nelson is heating up, he may be on the verge of leaving the Packers as he is in the final year of his contract. If he keeps producing like he has been, he will be a very popular ג and pricey ג free agent.

Nelson said he's not thinking about his contract. He undoubtedly is spending more time thinking about how to beat players like the Bears' Jennings and Moore.

And doing that would be the best way for Nelson to continue his streak of prosperity.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/co ... .columnist

naturalborn103 · Post by **naturalborn103** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:50 pm

Jay Cutler admitted Wednesday that he's concerned he might not make it through the 2011 season if he continues to take sacks at a league-high rate.

I feel bad for the guy.. And I don't like Cutler. Mike Martz is going to give him some serious health problems by the time he is 35-40.

an-also · Post by **an-also** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:11 pm

capable_keL wrote:
an-also wrote: It'll be a close ugly game as usual
do you actually watch the games?

Do you? The last six times they've met, the games have been decided by 7 points or less.

capable_keL · Post by **capable_keL** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:49 pm

your placating the notion that the game will be close when we all know it wont. did you think the championship game was close?

the facade aint working, just go full blown homer and i'll respect you more than this pretend close game shit

capable_keL · Post by **capable_keL** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:54 pm

an-also · Post by **an-also** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:05 pm

capable_keL wrote:your placating the notion that the game will be close when we all know it wont. did you think the championship game was close?

the facade aint working, just go full blown homer and i'll respect you more than this pretend close game shit

Brougham33 · Post by **Brougham33** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:16 am

Roy Johnson wrote:I'm fine with Cutler, Lovie Smith, and even Mike Martz. Jerry Angelo should have been fired years ago, but the McCaskeys are loyal to a fault. These units are bottom 5 in the NFL:

Offensive Line
Wide Receivers
Secondary

Why are you fine with Mike Martz?

He was our absolute last choice and basically Love coerced Jerry into hiring him as coordinator. He runs an offense that can't be run by this team. You said it, bottom 5 O-line and WR's = you can'be doing 7 step drops. Last year, the success the Bears had after the bye week was because they toned down the Martz offense and balanced it out with running and turning Cutler look like a game manager. I'm not saying that is any path to success, that is the path to NFL mediocrity, but given the makeup of this team we can't continue down this path again. I was shocked that Love was so direct in his post-game, he said "We canגt win football games with that kind of balance.ג aka 10 rushes won't cut it.

Also, Cutler should not be lumped in with this aging defense and a coaching staff on its last leg. He will be here, I want him to be here, I just hope by the time we surround him with some talent he isn't in a coma.

Roy Johnson · Post by **Roy Johnson** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:41 pm

Brougham33 wrote:Why are you fine with Mike Martz?

He was our absolute last choice and basically Love coerced Jerry into hiring him as coordinator. He runs an offense that can't be run by this team. You said it, bottom 5 O-line and WR's = you can'be doing 7 step drops. Last year, the success the Bears had after the bye week was because they toned down the Martz offense and balanced it out with running and turning Cutler look like a game manager. I'm not saying that is any path to success, that is the path to NFL mediocrity, but given the makeup of this team we can't continue down this path again. I was shocked that Love was so direct in his post-game, he said "We canגt win football games with that kind of balance.ג aka 10 rushes won't cut it.

Mike Martz is an elite-level passing technician in a league that revolves around the QB, so I'm fine with him on a theoretical basis. I agree that he needs to be more Shoop-like based on his personnel, and I'm sure that he will after that 4th quarter debacle in New Orleans.

capable_keL · Post by **capable_keL** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:58 pm

The Green Bay Packers have requested the NFL's approval to hold a stock sale before the end of the year, the Green Bay Press Gazette reported Tuesday.

It would be the fifth such sale in the team's history. The team would use the money for improvements to the stadium, said team spokesman Aaron Popkey.

גIt requires NFL approval and we are hopeful to receive that by the end of October. There are some different financial regulations (than with the last sale) and we are working through that,ג Popkey said.

Last month, the Packers announced $143 million in projects to add 6,600 seats to Lambeau Field and make other improvements before the 2013 season.

During the last offering, in 1997-98, the Packers sold shares at $200 each and raised $24 million.

גWe are hopeful we would sell in the neighborhood of at least what we did last time,ג Popkey said.

A price for shares has not been set, though it will be $200 or more, Popkey said.

capable_keL · Post by **capable_keL** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:00 pm

naturalborn103 · Post by **naturalborn103** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:15 pm

Sorry to say, but I have not seen one of those movie posters I found remotely funny.

capable_keL · Post by **capable_keL** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:12 pm

naturalborn103 wrote:Sorry to say, but I have not seen one of those movie posters I found remotely funny.

they're not supposed to be funny

it's for photo shop heads

edit:

i recognize they aren't funny and will cease and desist

an-also · Post by **an-also** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:16 pm

@ fox. This is pretty pathetic.

Fox Sports admits fabrication of newspaper headlines

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on September 20, 2011, 1:26 PM EDT

During the Bears season opener, Fox Sports wanted to reference some headlines that questioned Jay Cutlerגs toughness in last yearגs NFC Championship game.

Since no headlines actually existed in any newspaper, Fox decided to make them up. And then say they were real. Seriously.

Here are the three headlines Fox used as a graphic, via Poynter:

1. גCutler Leaves With Injuryג

2. גCutler Lacks Courageג

3. גCutlerגs No Leaderג

Fox analyst Darryl Johnston backed them up by saying גthese are the actual headlines from the local papers in Chicago.ג

Except they werenגt. The Chicago Tribune thought the headlines sounded fishy because Cutler was defended locally. They did an investigation, and there no such headlines in Chicago. Or anywhere else in the country.

גIt was misleading,ג admitted FOX Sports spokesman Dan Bell.

Itגs more than misleading. They intentionally made up headlines and then went out of their way to say they were real.

גOur attempt was to capture the overall sentiment nationwide following that game,ג Bell said.

Weגre confused by the strategy. Why make up headlines when they could just hack into Cutlerגs voice mail and create a real one?

ric · Post by **ric** » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:12 pm

Brougham33 wrote:Why are you fine with Mike Martz?

isnt this debate less about coaching than it is about what is better: long term thinking (which assumes they will actually bring in talent, which seems to be a problem) vs short term thinking (fire martz, bring in somebody else get an insta-boost in results)?

naturalborn103 · Post by **naturalborn103** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:54 am

ric wrote:
Brougham33 wrote:Why are you fine with Mike Martz?
isnt this debate less about coaching than it is about what is better: long term thinking (which assumes they will actually bring in talent, which seems to be a problem) vs short term thinking (fire martz, bring in somebody else get an insta-boost in results)?

Do you watch the games at all?? Martz doesn't keep extra blockers for Cutler and continues to have to him 7 step drops. He is running for his life every play.

ric · Post by **ric** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:46 am

do you actually read the posts you respond to?
my post was a little scrappy, but im not going to repeat it.
i have you on ignore now. good night and good luck.

Roy Johnson · Post by **Roy Johnson** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:30 pm

Matt Bowen:

Pressure defenses can be beat with reliable No. 1 receiver
Problem is, Bears don't have that guy

Want to beat a pressure defense in the NFL?

Then get the ball to your No.1 wide receiver aligned in a matchup he can win consistently.

The problem in Chicago? This offense doesn't have "that guy" at wide receiver for quarterback Jay Cutler, a player who will go get the ball.

Forget about the rebirth of the Bears' protection issues for a minute and focus on what they showed in the passing game in Sunday's loss to the Saints. Throw the checkdown to Matt Forte or force the ball across the middle to a rookie in Dane Sanzenbacher.

That's the summary of the offensive game plan to counter a pressure defense that was looking to literally knock guys out in the second half.

I played in this same defensive scheme for Gregg Williams, the Saints coordinator, when we worked together for the Redskins. It is built on pressure and secondary play that will eliminate the "hot read' from the quarterback.

It can be beat, just as Aaron Rodgers did to this same Saints defense to open the season. Get the ball out quickly to your wide receivers and let them make a play for you.

Who is going to be that option for Cutler moving forward against the blitz? It isn't Devin Hester, Johnny Knox or Sanzenbacher. And although Earl Bennett can be a weapon inside of the numbers for this offense, they need more.

They need a playmaker that can win at the line of scrimmage, run the slant or option route and also take it up the field ג vertically ג when the Bears see pressure. Show that defense if they want to pressure, you will beat them underneath and over the top.

Force them to back off and readjust their game plan. Start dictating the flow of the game from an offensive perspective. The opposite of what we saw on Sunday in New Orleans.

Maybe the answer is Roy Williams, if he can stay healthy Sunday vs. the Packers at Soldier Field. He was brought in to produce in Mike Martz's offense, run the entire route tree and make plays in the passing game.

The game tape from the loss to the Saints will spread quickly around the league, giving defensive coordinators new ideas and new ways to attack the Bears' offensive line. And the target on Cutler will continue to grow as the weeks roll on.

It's time for someone to step up and make some plays for the quarterback, because Cutler won't last taking more beatings like we saw on Sunday.

Special contributor Matt Bowen, who played at Glenbard West and Iowa, spent seven seasons in the NFL as a strong safety. You also can find his work at nationalfootballpost.com

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/co ... .columnist

an-also · Post by **an-also** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:47 pm

Its supposed to be raining like crazy tomorrow in soldier field.

capable_keL · Post by **capable_keL** » Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:48 pm

an-also wrote:Its supposed to be raining like crazy tomorrow in soldier field.

i think rain will favor the pack, fin & starks could have monster games. fill the box, shadow forte and jay will force turnovers

it's like christmas morning being able to watch Lions/Vikes then Burrs/Pack

blastmaster · Post by **blastmaster** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:35 am

I just feel bad for Forte.

an-also · Post by **an-also** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:18 pm

Breaking Down the Viking Funeral

Since Brett Favre threw that interception in the 2009 NFC Championship Game, the amount of fun involved with being a Vikings fan has declined at a seemingly constant rate. Blowing leads in three consecutive games has not stopped this inexorable march toward relocating the team to Los Angeles. Take heart, Vikings fans: You've had leads in three consecutive games heading into the second half, which is a pretty good sign that there are going to be some wins on the horizon. But don't blame Donovan McNabb.

The biggest difference between the way the Vikings play during the first half of games and the second half has been the relative disappearance of their pass rush. During the first half of their three games so far this year, the Vikings have sacked opposing quarterbacks on 10.3 percent of their dropbacks. No team had a sack rate higher than 9 percent last season, so that would make the first-half Vikings pass rush just about the best unit in football.

During the second half, though, things change. The Vikings have sacked the opposing signal-caller on just three of their 75 dropbacks, which produces a miserly sack rate of 4.0 percent. The worst pass rush in football last year sacked quarterbacks 4.3 percent of the time, so that's right ג the Vikings have swung from an elite pass rush to a terrible one during the two halves of their games this year. If they can maintain their pass rush through a full game, well, they'll start winning.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/701 ... iew-week-3

eternalreflection · Post by **eternalreflection** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:14 pm

or maybe they could give the ball to their best player on 3rd and 1, and later on 4th and 1 instead of letting bums fail, might help

Brougham33 · Post by **Brougham33** » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:29 pm

ric wrote:
Brougham33 wrote:Why are you fine with Mike Martz?
isnt this debate less about coaching than it is about what is better: long term thinking (which assumes they will actually bring in talent, which seems to be a problem) vs short term thinking (fire martz, bring in somebody else get an insta-boost in results)?

Not looking for insta-boost results, I honestly think the Mike Martz system is antiquated and no longer works in todays league. It is made to look even worse when you don't have to guys to run it. The Bears have 2 talented guys on offense, Cutler and Forte, I think the smart long term approach to preserve these guys for the future would be to clean house top to bottom (I don't expect this to happen) after this season.

an-also · Post by **an-also** » Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:07 am

[quote]
Jay Cutler pays price for GMגs belief he can elevate Bearsג offense

By Neil hayes nhayes@suntimes.com September 26, 2011 11:38PM

Packers cornerback Ryan Bush bears down on Bears quarterback Jay Cutler to contribute to a sack in the second half of the Chicago Bears 27-17 loss to the Green Bay Packers Sunday September 25, 2011 at Soldier Field in Chicago. | Tom Cruze~Sun-Times
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Dressed in suits and carrying briefcases, Jerry Angelo and Tim Ruskell walked briskly down the hallway outside the Bearsג locker room after Sundayגs 27-17 loss to the Green Bay Packers, four eyes staring straight ahead, presumably