Pick the Hall of Famers
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- Philaflava
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Pick the Hall of Famers
If you had just 2 votes, who gets it for the HoF?
You can select up to 2 players for this poll.
Jim Edmonds
8x GG
.284 1949 hits, 393 HR
WAR 60.3
Lance Berkman
.293 1905 hits, 366 HR
WAR 50.8
Bobby Abreu
.291, 2466 hits, 288 HR, 1453 runs, 400 SB, 1474 BB
WAR 59.8
Luis Gonzalez
.283, 2591 hits, 354 HR, 1439 RBI,
WAR 51.5
Johnny Damon
.284, 1668 runs, 2769 hits, 522 2B, 235 HR, 408 SB
WAR 56
Kenny Lofton
4x gold glove
.299, 2428 hits, 622 SB
WAR 68.2
Jeff Kent
1 MVP
.290, 2461 hits, 377 HR, 1518 RBI,
WAR 55.2
Paul Konerko
6x All-Star
.279, 2338 hits, 439 HR, 1412 RBI
WAR 28.4
Andruw Jones
10x GG
5x All-Star
.254, 1933 hits, 434 HR
WAR 62.8
You can select up to 2 players for this poll.
Jim Edmonds
8x GG
.284 1949 hits, 393 HR
WAR 60.3
Lance Berkman
.293 1905 hits, 366 HR
WAR 50.8
Bobby Abreu
.291, 2466 hits, 288 HR, 1453 runs, 400 SB, 1474 BB
WAR 59.8
Luis Gonzalez
.283, 2591 hits, 354 HR, 1439 RBI,
WAR 51.5
Johnny Damon
.284, 1668 runs, 2769 hits, 522 2B, 235 HR, 408 SB
WAR 56
Kenny Lofton
4x gold glove
.299, 2428 hits, 622 SB
WAR 68.2
Jeff Kent
1 MVP
.290, 2461 hits, 377 HR, 1518 RBI,
WAR 55.2
Paul Konerko
6x All-Star
.279, 2338 hits, 439 HR, 1412 RBI
WAR 28.4
Andruw Jones
10x GG
5x All-Star
.254, 1933 hits, 434 HR
WAR 62.8
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Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
Damon, Gonzalez, Abreu, Konerko and Berkman aint gettin in.
So that means its between Jones, Kent, Edmonds & Lofton.
Kent is like 14 career WAR short of the career avg for 2B, but is probably the best power hitter that position has ever seen. Unfortunate that he couldn't rack up more than like .5 WAR/year with his glove throughout his prime, because then he might have a more clear case by the numbers. Obviously as a Giants fan, I'd love to see him get in, but I doubt it happens. He'll probably suffer from steroid allegations as well.
Lofton's case is consistency/durability. On average, he was worth about 3.3 wins over the course of his 17 seasons, which looks pretty unremarkable. The stretch from 92-94 was real nice, but I don't know its the basis for a HOF career. His model is basically Raines. If Rock makes it, then Lofton should. But there's no way he should get in before him, and I dont know that he will get enough votes regardless.
Edmonds is on the outside looking in too. Never player an entire season. Never lead the league in WAR, or any offensive category. And though he's remembered for his defense, the metrics dont favor that part of his game either. For example, his best dWAR by bref is 1.5. For comparison, Andruw Jones played the same position and had a 3.8 dWAR season at his peak. If Edmonds gets in, its gonna set a crazy precedent for everyone else. After lookin at it more in depth, I actually think Abreu should probably get in before him.
Andruw Jones has the most compelling case. Had the best season of all being considered, when he racked up 8.2 WAR in 2000. Was legitimately a great defender, one of the best CF ever. Has the second most homers of all these guys, other than Konerko, and led the league in 05. Probably would have won an MVP, if he didn't play in the Bonds era. Is a surefire bet if he had been worth a good god damn for like one season after his 30th birthday. By peak WAR he deserves to get in. By career WAR he's a little short, and behind Beltran, who I've made a case against before on this site. His case is bolstered by Andre Dawson being in, because he's better in most categories. I'd probably vote for him, but I wouldn't die on that hill either.
So my irrational votes are for Kent & Jones. But my rational vote is for Jones only.
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So that means its between Jones, Kent, Edmonds & Lofton.
Kent is like 14 career WAR short of the career avg for 2B, but is probably the best power hitter that position has ever seen. Unfortunate that he couldn't rack up more than like .5 WAR/year with his glove throughout his prime, because then he might have a more clear case by the numbers. Obviously as a Giants fan, I'd love to see him get in, but I doubt it happens. He'll probably suffer from steroid allegations as well.
Lofton's case is consistency/durability. On average, he was worth about 3.3 wins over the course of his 17 seasons, which looks pretty unremarkable. The stretch from 92-94 was real nice, but I don't know its the basis for a HOF career. His model is basically Raines. If Rock makes it, then Lofton should. But there's no way he should get in before him, and I dont know that he will get enough votes regardless.
Edmonds is on the outside looking in too. Never player an entire season. Never lead the league in WAR, or any offensive category. And though he's remembered for his defense, the metrics dont favor that part of his game either. For example, his best dWAR by bref is 1.5. For comparison, Andruw Jones played the same position and had a 3.8 dWAR season at his peak. If Edmonds gets in, its gonna set a crazy precedent for everyone else. After lookin at it more in depth, I actually think Abreu should probably get in before him.
Andruw Jones has the most compelling case. Had the best season of all being considered, when he racked up 8.2 WAR in 2000. Was legitimately a great defender, one of the best CF ever. Has the second most homers of all these guys, other than Konerko, and led the league in 05. Probably would have won an MVP, if he didn't play in the Bonds era. Is a surefire bet if he had been worth a good god damn for like one season after his 30th birthday. By peak WAR he deserves to get in. By career WAR he's a little short, and behind Beltran, who I've made a case against before on this site. His case is bolstered by Andre Dawson being in, because he's better in most categories. I'd probably vote for him, but I wouldn't die on that hill either.
So my irrational votes are for Kent & Jones. But my rational vote is for Jones only.
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Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
kenny and druw
kenny was one of the greatest defensive outfielders ive seen and a monster on offense
druw same shit but just more power and less speed
kenny was one of the greatest defensive outfielders ive seen and a monster on offense
druw same shit but just more power and less speed
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Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
Lofton already dropped off the ballot his first year, saddingly.peanut butter wrote:
Lofton's case is consistency/durability. On average, he was worth about 3.3 wins over the course of his 17 seasons, which looks pretty unremarkable. The stretch from 92-94 was real nice, but I don't know its the basis for a HOF career. His model is basically Raines. If Rock makes it, then Lofton should. But there's no way he should get in before him, and I dont know that he will get enough votes regardless.
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He's a HOF in my book. If he played in a different era he'd be viewed entirely differenly. Jones peak is enough to get him in for me too.
Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
is none an option?
Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
nothing to add that hasn't been said. Kent and Jones. fwiw, I think none get in from that list. Kent/Jones maybe on some year 5-10 vote on a weak year.
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Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
I wanted to vote for kent, lofton and jones. But voted kent and lofton. I have a soft spot in my heart for leadoff hitters that never got respect a la Tim Raines.
- Philaflava
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Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
Lofton should get it but not until Rock Raines does. Surprised to see Konerko which such a low WAR. For 15 years he was a really consistent, durable slugger. 6 100+ RBI seasons and hit over 30 HR 7x. Fucking WAR.
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Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
He was a really shitty first baseman. If he just DH'd his entire career, his career WAR would be like 5 points higher. Still wouldn't get him anywhere near the Hall. But still. His best rating as a defender over a full season was -0.5.Philaflava wrote:Lofton should get it but not until Rock Raines does. Surprised to see Konerko which such a low WAR. For 15 years he was a really consistent, durable slugger. 6 100+ RBI seasons and hit over 30 HR 7x. Fucking WAR.
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- Philaflava
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Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
And that is part of my problem with WAR. Papi, who deserves to be in the hall, will have no problem despite his glove at 1B.
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Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
The fuck? David Ortiz's dWAR stats are literally identical to Konerko's. They are both horrible defenders, and both have -18 over their career. Just so happens that Ortiz is a considerably better hitter than Konerko in every imaginable way.Philaflava wrote:And that is part of my problem with WAR. Papi, who deserves to be in the hall, will have no problem despite his glove at 1B.
If you're going to take issue with a stat, at least take time to understand how that might be reflected in your argument.
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- Philaflava
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Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
Both horrible defenders. I am not equating Konerko's offense to that of Ortiz, but how playing a position can really devalue a players shot at the HOF. Don't always be a smug asshole with your condescending replies that clearly are amplified because you're addressing me, the ruler of this here playground.
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Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
Papi's impact and offensive numbers are good enough to get him into the Hall of Fame, whether they ran him out there to play a shitty first base everyday 15 years or not. Paul Konerko's not in the same league as David Ortiz. That's not the fault of a stat, or a position, or anything other than you trying to equate two players that aren't in the same league. And no need to puff your chest out. We're just talking ball. Overcompensation is a bad look for The Ruler.Philaflava wrote:Both horrible defenders. I am not equating Konerko's offense to that of Ortiz, but how playing a position can really devalue a players shot at the HOF. Don't always be a smug asshole with your condescending replies that clearly are amplified because you're addressing me, the ruler of this here playground.
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Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
Gotta say Damon's numbers look pretty good. Am I wrong?
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Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
He's a cunt, that's what's wrong.
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Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
Yeah, pretty much. I don't understand how anyone equate this to being WAR's fault in this argument. It doesn't make sense.peanut butter wrote:Papi's impact and offensive numbers are good enough to get him into the Hall of Fame, whether they ran him out there to play a shitty first base everyday 15 years or not. Paul Konerko's not in the same league as David Ortiz. That's not the fault of a stat, or a position, or anything other than you trying to equate two players that aren't in the same league. And no need to puff your chest out. We're just talking ball. Overcompensation is a bad look for The Ruler.Philaflava wrote:Both horrible defenders. I am not equating Konerko's offense to that of Ortiz, but how playing a position can really devalue a players shot at the HOF. Don't always be a smug asshole with your condescending replies that clearly are amplified because you're addressing me, the ruler of this here playground.
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You do make condescending replies. But you condescend almost everyone at some point. So does practically everyone on this message board. It's a message board. We're all assholes that think we're right about something.
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Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
If you lunkheads ever got anything right when discussing sports, I wouldn't have to talk down to you. But yet here we are again. Yall being wrong and vulnerable about it. Go ahead and get the metrics on that for me, pussies.
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Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
This is so wrong.
Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
Kent and Lofton for me, but Lofton should squeak in during his last year of eligibility and shit. Kent should be in no question, his offensive output at that position seals it.
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Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
SI just did an in depth breakdown of Jeff Kent's HOF prospects, and it isn't very favorable:
http://www.si.com/mlb/2014/12/16/jaws-2 ... -jeff-kent" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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http://www.si.com/mlb/2014/12/16/jaws-2 ... -jeff-kent" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
with the ten vote limit, only the cleanest no-doubt-about-it guys are getting in for a long time. If you don't have 500 HR, 3,000 hits or 300 wins you have no fucking chance really.
stupid.
Really liked Buster Olney's stand against voting at all as opposed to the blank-ballot protest fags.
stupid.
Really liked Buster Olney's stand against voting at all as opposed to the blank-ballot protest fags.
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Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
BBWA recently approved requesting to get a 12 person ballot
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Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
LOL. Pathetic response. Why a limit at all?
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Re: Pick the Hall of Famers
Because the Hall probably wouldn't go for that. So they compromised. Not saying its sufficient, but its somethingTommy Bunz wrote:LOL. Pathetic response. Why a limit at all?
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