2014-15 Official NBA Season Thread

[b. johnson]

Reason, Thoughts?
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nerle ... -the-year/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Noel over Wiggins is actually a good argument. It just sucks that we continuously have a ROY on two of the worst teams in the league. It's so much more meaningful and impressive when a ROY can actually contribute on a halfway decent team. For this reason, Mirotic should at least be in the conversation.

[Reason]

Reason, Thoughts?
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nerle ... -the-year/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

here's the issue:

issue #1

as the article addresses, noel's offense leaves a LOT to be desired. he's very versatile on defense and because of his size great, but speaking of rookies elfrid payton is really good defense at his position AND he averages almost 7 dimes a game. i also think stats - EVEN metrics - can overrate or underrate a player. i'd like to see if defensive rating adjusts for attempts/possessions. here's what i'm saying: if you are on a slower paced, defensive-minded team, and you are on the floor a lot, and your team sucks dick so you're behind a lot, and so you're in positions where scrub players on opposing teams and good players alike take shots they normally wouldn't because your team blows and they're either winning or going to win...like, al jefferson is 11th in defensive rating. zach randolph is 16th. luis scola is 19th. zaza pachulia is 20th.

issue #2

dated: 3/12/15. around this time wiggins was averaging about 15-16 ppg.

Andrew Wiggins in 16 games since then: 21.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 2.4 apg, 44% fg, 81.7% ft

by the way in those 16 games? 125 ftm/153 fta

think about that...wiggins averaged 9.6 free throw attempts a game in this 16 game stretch.

his last 10 games: 24.8 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 3.1 apg, 46.2% fg, 83% ft including 106 free throw attempts


Andrew Wiggins last night:



the game is slowing down for him. he's putting up better production and showing advanced skills and learned skills over the course of the season DESPITE fatigue/worse physical condition. oh, and he's 20 years old. jordan was 21 when he came out of unc after 3 years of college.

wiggins is doing this stuff to everyone including good defenders. this kid makes nicolas batum look like a toddler in the post. he also is the new league-leader in "wtf i had no idea he was going to even try to dunk that let alone actually dunk that WTF?" moments

[capable_keL]

wiggins almost had that triple double last night. he's POWERING thru the end of the season. throwing it down on everyone

steph is adding to the record tonight

[naturalborn103]

Playing some devils advacit here, but some serious contradictions in what you reason.

1) Payton leaves a whole lot to be desired himself on the offensive side. He can't shoot for shit. Also, a defensive big >> good defensive guard.

2) you can't attack noel #s because his team sucks and then big up Wiggins and point out his numbers like he's not on a even worse team.

Got a question for you though. We both loved exum start of the season. What do you feel about him now? I'm hoping it's all confidence thing and he'll get it back in off season, but damn is his game ugly now. He's super quick and is too scared to even attempt to take it to the rack.

[Reason]

Payton's ft and fg have skyrocketed lately check the game logs and splits

And

Noel sucks on offense regardless of his teammates

From si:

A good chunk of Wiggins' rough advanced numbers can be explained by Minnesota's self-imposed adversity. Saunders released J.J. Barea in October and traded away Thaddeus Young, Corey Brewer and Mo Williams in midseason deals, exacerbating existing depth issues while ushering in a youth movement. Despite a host of injuries, it has been Saunders' decision to lean on Wiggins heavily from a minutes standpoint. Saunders said Wednesday that he "isn't into" the idea of the strategically resting players and that it's "better for everybody" if players try to play all 82 games. At the same time, he acknowledged that the workload has caught up to Wiggins a bit in recent weeks. For context, only two players, James and Anthony, have logged more minutes than Wiggins in their age-19 seasons.

And as far as exum, it's not fair to judge at all! He has been buried behind trey Burke who is one of the has played one of the worst starting of seasons in recent memory and maybe comparable to the worst ever. Wiggins and Payton got to learn on the job

[naturalborn103]

I'll check out Payton #s.

I wasn't saying noel not good on offense (he is finding his place more. Lot less crazy hooks and just lots of cuts and putback) because of his teammates, I meant that Wiggins getting his #s in garbage time as much as noel is getting his.

[Reason]

I'll check out Payton #s.

I wasn't saying noel not good on offense (he is finding his place more. Lot less crazy hooks and just lots of cuts and putback) because of his teammates, I meant that Wiggins getting his #s in garbage time as much as noel is getting his.

garbage time? you totally missed my point. my point was that scrubs and stars and superstars alike all (a) get past philly perimeter defenders (b) have little to lose b/c they are usually blowing out the 6ers or know they will win eventually (c) therefore challenge noel more often than they need to/normally would if the game mattered/more than normal if the perimeter d could hold them

it was a very specific point about noel's d. his offense sucks in a vacuum or in any context, i dont' need to analyze that

besides, wiggins isn't getting "all his #'s" in garbage time. he's consistently been the focal point lately because of injuries to the twolves and an emphasis (an obvious one) by flip and co. to get wiggins enough usage to win the ROY by sheer totals force

he's getting guarded and double teamed from the start of games so your garbage time point doesn't make sense

his team is god awful. the squad that surrounds wiggins, especially the last month or two, is d-league quality. it's equally as bad as noel's supporting cast

anyway, came here to post this:

david stockton got signed by the kings

i'm a rare nerd that watches some dleague highlights, and let me tell you, stockton is SUPER undersized (he's basically his dad without his dad's country strength and stocky legs) but boy is he smart and skilled

[Reason]

just caught a clip of 2012 olympic team

can't believe deron williams was on that squad

how the mighty have fallen

fucking smh

[capable_keL]

just caught a clip of 2012 olympic team

can't believe deron williams was on that squad

how the mighty have fallen

fucking smh

LeBron and Love looked like an unstoppable force on that team.

almost good enough to make them do something crazy

[naturalborn103]

besides, wiggins isn't getting "all his #'s" in garbage time. he's consistently been the focal point lately because of injuries to the twolves and an emphasis (an obvious one) by flip and co. to get wiggins enough usage to win the ROY by sheer totals force

he's getting guarded and double teamed from the start of games so your garbage time point doesn't make sense

his team is god awful. the squad that surrounds wiggins, especially the last month or two, is d-league quality. it's equally as bad as noel's supporting cast

So People killing 76ers don't care that much and throw up crazy shots for him to block but when people play they wolves they playing their hardest every play on D when Wiggins is dropping points? Okay.

In other news Westbrook going to be suspended next game for too many techs. He also shot 21/43 today in loss to Indy.

[Reason]

So People killing 76ers don't care that much and throw up crazy shots for him to block but when people play they wolves they playing their hardest every play on D when Wiggins is dropping points? Okay.

it's cute that you like to put words in my mouth i never said to make your nonsensical argument an argument, never said everyone plays the wolves the hardest, i said he is facing the top defender and/or the focus on defense (defenses gameplanning by focusing on him, ya dufus, versus offenses NOT gameplanning against noel cuz they don't give a fuck...get it?)

you seem to like to meld separate arguments together...ever heard the term "mutually exclusive"

do you not get that my implication that noel's defensive rating is inflated and the idea that wiggins' metric #'s are deflated by similar constructs (shitty teammates, opponents' gameplans, differenct in positions, i.e. wiggins guarding everyone from pgs to pfs including on the perimeter 1 v 1 while noel just sits near the basket waiting for a lot of his counting stats that inflate his metrics) is completely logically arguable and have nothing to do with each other?

enough with this shit. bill simmons said it best

" Nerlens Noel (solid rookie year; looked extremely Theo Ratliffish)"

why am i still talkin to these haters and nonbelievers and blind people? if you honestly have seen even just 2-3 full games of any of these rookies from the last 3 months and cannot just see how clear and obvious it is that wiggins is head & shoulders the best rookie now, the best rookie potential-wise, and the EASY choice for rookie of the year, i can't even talk to you about basketball anymore. seriously. if you haven't seen mirotic/payton/wiggins/parker/noel/etc. play and can't comment and want to reserve judgment fine. but why am i arguing with someone if he hasn't even fucking watched enough of these people to pass judgment? just wastes time trying to find holes to poke in fucking internet posts instead?

anyway came here to post that zach lowe da god jsut wrote a great piece on mccollum (and also simultaneously fucked up my sleeper draft pick list for next year)

[Reason]

Guys w/ at least 43 FGA in a game since 1985-86:

Kobe (5 times, high of 47)

MJ (4 times, high of 49)

Webber (once, 47)

And now Russell

[naturalborn103]

In his quest (that he is just joking about, doesn't take it serious at all) to say #rzntoldyall reason has now convinced himself that the hardest place to put up #'s is being the only offensive option on a terrible team. For real though, keep ignoring the haters, bro! We all just jealous of your of supreme intelligence!

[b. johnson]

Westbrook has no business taking 43 shots. He needs to be suspended for shooting 15 3 pointers. it's hard to see westbrook adjusting his game for the better at this point. he just does not get it. This might seriously make Durant leave OKC.

in other news, the west is just nuts. can't even keep up with the playoff seeding anymore. it's going to be awesome to say the least. and as irrelevant as the east 7-8 spots are, it's still very intriguing to see who makes it.

SPURS are just nuts and have to be the favorite at this point. i still think the grizz can beat them though if they are healthy (although Spurs are admittedly probably going to beat them, if that makes any sense).

fucking let the playoffs being already!

oh and...

curry MVP
wiggins ROY
butler Most improved
hawks coach COY, Kerr may get it, but i think the hawks coach is more deserving.
lou williams 6th man
DOY don't know. they might give it to Jordan even though he is all stats and very little else. i'd like to see Duncan get the award. Leonard would be a great choice too, but i believe he missed too many games.

[eternalreflection]

just caught a clip of 2012 olympic team

can't believe deron williams was on that squad

how the mighty have fallen

fucking smh

remember how everyone on here was on the Williams>Paul train? Looks pretty funny in hindsight.

[Reason]

just caught a clip of 2012 olympic team

can't believe deron williams was on that squad

how the mighty have fallen

fucking smh

remember how everyone on here was on the Williams>Paul train? Looks pretty funny in hindsight.

everyone? pretty sure it was just me lol.

i stand by it THEN. dead wrong now but then when williams was still elite his size/defense swayed the argument in his favor imo but obviously can't and don't stand for it after that fact/date. just dead wrong as he got an injury bug after another

[Reason]

How a basketball conversation goes bad because one participant is a complete fucking asshat retard who not only exhibits poor reading comprehension but also never actually acknowledges whether he understood your point:

Step 1. Make the point that Noel's defensive metrics might be inflated slightly by the circumstances of his team. Then make a separate point that Wiggins' offensive metrics might be deflated slightly by the circumstances of his team.
Step 2. Natborn jumps in...not to actually talk basketball but just to see if he can poke a hole in the reasoning behind the points. His primitive brain leaps to "How can you say Noel's metrics are inflated by his bad team and then say Wiggins' metrics are deflated even though he's on a bad team too?"
Step 3. Explain clearly how they are mutually exclusive arguments and that a shitty team can lead to inflation of one metric (theoretically) while leading to deflation of another metric of a different player on a different shitty team.
Step 4. This is his response:

In his quest (that he is just joking about, doesn't take it serious at all) to say #rzntoldyall reason has now convinced himself that the hardest place to put up #'s is being the only offensive option on a terrible team. For real though, keep ignoring the haters, bro! We all just jealous of your of supreme intelligence!

Natborn jumps in...not to actually talk basketball or acknowledge whether he got where I was coming from and that he disagreed still or agreed or didn't have an opinion. Nope...just to throw personal barbs in the form of sarcastic shit about supposed blowhardy #rzntoldyall, super "serious" ego person that i obviously so clearly am in real life. Oh actually he did mention the "hardest place to put up offensive #s" which made no sense because I never said anything to that tune and he didn't acknowledge any of the actual details behind my argument.

you come off like you take yourself VERY serious.

#rzntoldyall

keep calling me names and sayin i'm an overdramatic fag about random shit, bitch i stay winning, idgaf if it's luck every time, i can look at a baller's INTERVIEWS and predict his fuckin value, FUCK OUTTA HERE #RZNTOLDYALL2015

seriously if you read the above post by me or ones similar to it and think it is serious in any way, shape, or form, you are fucking stupid

btw how's the "wiggins can't finish around the rim" argument going for you? you still haven't taken that back or said you were wrong? what's a matter, homey, i thought you had a little ounce of humility or self-reflection in you? apparently you're not only dumb, you're an asshole.

you know...i didn't think i had any "haters" b/c that would suggest people actually spend time to think about me, well, more than the few seconds needed to reply to a post of mine or read one, but congrats, natborn, you can be my first 'hater'. i am supremely intelligent though. don't be jealous.

[Reason]

i'm on some "he started it' shit now. i don't take shots at anyone and i talk basketball if i quote someone or acknowledge something someone posted. i only reply with these long-winded shits to asshole posts that "started it". so don't be a fag and hate me on your own time in your own messageboard in your brain.

the fact that i offend so many people instead of just becoming that autistic kid who obsesses over basketball and is left alone boggles my mind.

[capable_keL]

everybody needs to try and act like an adult. rzn spits mad commentary and it shouldn't be taken personal. let the man do his thing without letting it affect you emotionally for fuck's sake

[Reason]

thanks kel

also i take it back. i won't reply to everything. i will reply to nothing. i'll just drop my analyses and predictions - the good and bad - and entertain any real convo if anyone deems one necessary like the bjohnsons and blockheads, etc. of the world. but i won't reply to or acknowledge the other bullshit. yall can have fun judging and determining who i am based off my posts - the serious and the not serious alike - and go crazy. half the people who spend any time posting negatively about me are on my ignore list anyway

[naturalborn103]

like I said, reason has convinced himself that putting up numbers on a terrible team is really hard to do. He also in the same post he says Noels numbers are inflated partly due to opponents not caring because they are going to win anyway. Take off the blinders and stop taking everything personal. Kel, the guy taking who needs to grow up is usually the one writing essays and calling everyone haters.

Back to basketball. It would be terrible if SA and GS on sane side of the bracket. Crazy that SA can be anywhere from 2 to 6 with only one game left is the season.

[capable_keL]

i'm hoping the spurs & dubs end up on the same side

let's hit our collective stride before the 'offs

[stupidregister]

i will reply to nothing. i'll just drop my analyses and predictions

That's all any of us really want.

[alpha]

i'm hoping the spurs & dubs end up on the same side

let's hit our collective stride before the 'offs

fuck that. You want the best matchup in the conference finals. And of course as a fan I'd rather see Portland or the LAC in the second round. Specifically the bitchmade clippers.

[capable_keL]

best matchup....according to record?

[alpha]

Don't be that guy

[capable_keL]

if you think the spurs/dubs matchup is the "best" then let's see it sooner than later, no?

obviously the spurs aren't the team you fear...according to record. right?

help me understand: what's the best path for the dubs?

my take is the dubs roll the spurs in 5 games

[stupidregister]

Spurs are repeating.

[Reason]

ok i lied. i was giving natty a second chance but fuck him. here's my last little spiel to dumb fucks like him, then i'll put him on ignore and just be done with him.

like I said, reason has convinced himself that putting up numbers on a terrible team is really hard to do. He also in the same post he says Noels numbers are inflated partly due to opponents not caring because they are going to win anyway. Take off the blinders and stop taking everything personal. Kel, the guy taking who needs to grow up is usually the one writing essays and calling everyone haters.

i'll keep it basketball here: i haven't "convinced myself" of anything. you like to overgeneralize and also put words into my mouth i never said. you say "putting up numbers on a terrible team is really hard to do" while i said "he is the focal point of defenses and gets gameplanned against specifically more than other players on his team by opposing defenses" what part of that in any way means i said putting up numbers on a bad team is hard? you're such a dumb, dense piece of shit, do you really not see how fucking dumb and petty you are being? do you not see how god awful your reading comprehension is? is your brain not capable of understanding that i said very specific things with support (like the sports illustrated article regarding "Wiggins' rough advanced numbers") and that none of the things i said in any form implied "putting up numbers on a bad team is hard" you fucking idiot?

so basically let's recap for real so you can clearly see your role in this, you piece of shit. blockhead asked me what i think about an article that said noel deserves roy. i stated it was outdated (written on march 12) and in my long-winded reply mentioned that noel's defensive metrics, which was the HUGE sticking point and reason the article writer said noel deserves the roy, might be inflated by circumstances mostly involving his shitty squad to overgeneralize and be quick. then YOU butted in trying to catch me in some contradiction. it seems to be a theme with you particularly this season - trying to find holes in my statements/predictions/arguments but not even being able to understand half of them so you make up holes that don't exist. then i put you in your place because you're an asshole who can't read, emphasis on the 'asshole', then you reply again with another misgeneralization

and to cap it off, i'm writing essays. i guess it takes you ten times as much time to write the same amount of bullshit and you'll never have enough time to make as much sense. and i'm calling everyone haters. even though clearly the latter has always been in jest you fucking moron.

and i'm the one taking things personal when every time i mention marcus smart negatively you throw a hissy fit like the true faggot you are

fuck off, natborn. done with you forever.

i will reply to nothing. i'll just drop my analyses and predictions

That's all any of us really want.

i promise now that your wish is my command, lover

[alpha]

if you think the spurs/dubs matchup is the "best" then let's see it sooner than later, no?

obviously the spurs aren't the team you fear...according to record. right?

help me understand: what's the best path for the dubs?

my take is the dubs roll the spurs in 5 games

naw man, the Spurs are the champs, firing on all cylinders. i'm freaking terrified of them. best path is not playing the Spurs till the WCF.