2015 NFL OFFSEASON THREAD

[capable_keL]

Got Theodore VS Carr on my radar. Juan can I Sleep on your couch.

can I get the bathtub?

[DLG]

good to see hardy is out for the first ten games

[Prophecy]

Tebow in that Illuminati

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foo ... van-mathis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[capable_keL]

ESPN/PFF: 10 Most Overrated Prospects

Click here for a list of the 10 most overrated prospects in this class.

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1. Trae Waynes, CB, Michigan State

While most left the combine in awe of Waynes' speed, the discussion among PFF analysts centered on the fact that his 20-yard shuttle (4.39 seconds) was slower than his 40 time (4.31), a rare feat we couldn't recall seeing. That poor change-of-direction ability was evident on tape, and is a problem at a position where change of direction is vital.

Moreover, for someone who possessed the recovery speed to not have to worry about getting beat deep, Waynes was fairly average breaking on intermediate routes and had only three pass breakups on 59 targets. His mark for yards per coverage snap allowed was just about average, at 1.04, but he was exposed against the most talented passing team the Spartans faced all year (Oregon). In that game in Week 2, he yielded 113 yards on seven targets, including a touchdown.



2. Arik Armstead, DE, Oregon

It seems as though many look at Armstead's measurables (6-foot-7, 292 pounds, 5.1-second 40-yard dash) and his position (3-4 defensive end) and can't foresee him becoming anything other than Calais Campbell. What has gotten overlooked for the most part, however, is that Campbell had as many sacks in his sophomore season of college (10.5) as Armstead had his entire Oregon career.

Defensive line is one of the positions where physical freaks can easily dominate in college with little to no technique. That is why it's concerning that Armstead produced well outside the upper echelon of defensive linemen. The Oregon defensive end graded out as our No. 20 interior lineman against Power 5 schools, and posted middling numbers in run-stop percentage (7.1) and pass-rushing productivity (6.0) for the season. Those are worrisome numbers for a potential top-15 pick.

3. Brandon Scherff, OT, Iowa

This one comes with a caveat, as we think Scherff could possibly be a fantastic guard, it's just that if you plug him in at left tackle next season you'll be sorely disappointed. It's difficult to see the Outland Trophy winner ever being an effective pass protector on the edge. Scherff wasn't close to the top of our tackle rankings, even after facing a fairly weak slate of edge rushers in the Big Ten. The Iowa tackle's 96.2 pass-blocking efficiency was 62nd out of the 95 draft-eligible tackles.

People have fallen in love with Scherff's ability to plant a defender to the turf, but when asked to play in space on the edge, Scherff lacked the length and feet quickness to regularly engage defenders. His skill set translates much better to guard in the NFL, but even there he would be something of a question mark.

4. Bud Dupree, LB, Kentucky
AP Photo/Wade Payne
After one of the most impressive performances in the history of the combine and a productive senior season, it is easy to see why Dupree has become a consensus first-rounder among draft analysts. However, when we dug deeper into his stats and film, there were some red flags that popped up.

The most meaningful one is that only three of his 36 pressures came against tackles with positive pass-blocking grades for the season. While he posted an overall respectable pass-rushing productivity mark of 9.8, that number dropped to 7.1 against SEC competition. A third of those pressures against SEC competition came versus Missouri's right tackle, Taylor Chappell, who had the second-worst pass-blocking grade in the country.

It's also worth noting that despite being 6-4, 269 pounds, Dupree didn't generate a single pressure off of a bull rush last season. Those stats paint the picture of a player who feasted on weak competition and then put up impressive workout numbers, rather than a complete pass-rusher.

5. Devin Funchess, WR/TE, Michigan

Funchess is a tweener some project as a "move" tight end in the NFL. Our analysts saw a different story, as we thought he had neither the radical size advantage to outmuscle corners nor the quickness to consistently beat linebackers. To top it off, he showed very little promise as a run-blocker.

This means Funchess is likely limited to a "big slot" role like Marques Colston. However, playing the slot requires a certain level of consistency that Funchess simply doesn't possess yet, and he'll have to improve in that area. The 6-4, 232-pound receiver had an 8.8 percent drop rate (8.3 percent was the NCAA average) to go along with a handful of misses on attempted contested catches.

6. Eddie Goldman, DT, Florida State

Goldman has many of the traits you look for in a nose tackle at the NFL level. He holds up well versus double-teams and has the strength to control most one-on-one blocks. He was by no means special in that regard, however, and was fairly poor at shedding and making the stop himself. In fact, his 5.3 run-stop percentage was well below average for this class.

Run defense aside, if you are taking a nose tackle in the first round, he better provide some complementary pass-rushing ability, and Goldman did not last season. The Florida State defensive lineman finished with a 5.5 in pass-rushing productivity, a figure far less than half that of the leader among D-linemen, Stanford's Henry Anderson (12.1).

7. Phillip Dorsett, WR, Miami
Phillip Dorsett stood out for his speed at the 2015 Senior Bowl. John David Mercer/USA TODAY Sports
Everyone loves speed at the receiver position because it is so hard to find, but consider the following: 38 receivers have run sub-4.4 40-yard dashes since the 2009 combine, and only six are now a top-two receiver on their respective teams. The main takeaway is that speed can help, but one needs to do so many other things well to be a complete receiver in the NFL.

With Dorsett, we didn't see much besides elite speed. He's undersized at 5-10, 185 pounds, and is still an unrefined route runner. Of his 67 targets last season, 40 came on deep routes (go, deep crosser, post and corner). He'll have to run a much more varied route tree at the next level. DeSean Jackson goes deep as often as anyone in the NFL, and even he was targeted on downfield routes only 37 percent of the time last season.

There's certainly a lot of potential here, but with all the other proven talent at receiver in this draft, taking Dorsett in the first round would be a substantial gamble.

8. Shaq Thompson, S/LB, Washington

People have been in love with Thompson's athleticism since he was a five-star recruit coming out of high school in Sacramento. However, all the athleticism in the world won't make up for poor instincts as a linebacker, and Thompson has yet to show he can make the necessary reads for the position. His 7.3 run-stop percentage was 41st among 58 draft-eligible starting inside linebackers, and he was an overall ineffective player against the run, outside of forcing and recovering fumbles.

Thompson's skill set translates better to safety, as he was smooth in coverage and has nickelback experience, but it's hard to feel comfortable picking a player early for a position you've never seen him play.

9. P.J. Williams, CB, Florida State

After watching all of Williams' plays this season, our analysts agreed that the most accurate description of him is "inconsistent." Inconsistency at cornerback in the NFL is synonymous with getting benched, as defensive coordinators won't put up with the types of highs and lows Williams experienced last season.

While the Florida State corner was aggressive and productive around the line of scrimmage, he gave up tons of ground on intermediate and deep routes when receivers got a hint of initial space. Williams actually graded out negatively in coverage, in no small part due to his silly habit of not wrapping up receivers after the catch. He missed 11 tackles in coverage last season, and his ratio of a miss on every 6.2 attempts was 79th out of 101 starters in the class.

10. Benardrick McKinney, LB, Mississippi State

McKinney is a fantastic athlete whose size (6-4, 246 pounds) and explosiveness (a 4.66 in the 40-yard dash, a 40.5-inch vertical leap) have him at or near the top of most inside linebacker rankings. The trouble is that all of our analysts who broke down his games agreed they wouldn't trust McKinney as anything more than a two-down linebacker. That still has value, but not early-round value.

McKinney's 0.81 yards per coverage snap was below the class average of 0.71, and he made a paltry five stops in coverage all season, 66th among inside linebackers (Eric Kendricks led with 28). His biggest problem was bringing down receivers in space, as he had only seven solo tackles in coverage, compared to five missed tackles.

[chump change]

good read...

[ric]

reviewed that espn/pff trae waynes thing
watched the oregon/msu cut up at draftbreakdown which is that fucking sour punch bomb

theyre kinda off about their assessment. he really gives up two catches and defensed actually really pretty well most of the time and he showed some good instincts/habits but hes not perfect.
the two catches he gives up are as follows:
1) he gets picked on a switch route and falls over (the rub wr also fell over) and sure it oughtnt to have happened but hes trailing well on a tough angle and the pick was like basically perfect so im like yeah ok. i dont know is that something to be wary of? falling down blows but in context it doesnt seem like it totally changes your assessment from success to flop if you see all this sweet shit. but sure its a flawed moment that may indicate some lack of awareness if you extend it but it looks more like an isolated incident. if all you recorded of the incident was that he gave up 60 yards it just seems to me youd be flattening it all out.
2) the td play was when he was lined up on the inside as #2 db - not outside (he doesnt really move around) and oregon ran something straight at him (another switch play with a rb out in the flat (3 potential wrs to keep track of) and the #1 wr on a curl outside (which is potential help assignment for db #2)) and yeah sure he took himself out of position to eventually be involved in the play and he read it wrong. guy had like two steps to disengage with his crosser and flip and trail his new wr down the seam but of course he fucking lost him because he doesnt play an inside technique. i mean look its one thing to not get it right but this dude wasnt even lined up where he is usually lined up 90+% of the time. i mean im just personally finding it hard to think of this guy as some sort of will bust based off that. and this is especially tricky to judge because we just dont know what kind of coverage they are playing. it may not have been his fault regardless (but it does look like his bad read to not follow down the seam; off had 4 def had 4)

is he jason verrett? no. but hes prolly gonna be a pretty good db in the nfl

and in re shaq thompson;
look the kid is not perfect and hes been fucked with (transition from 425 low safety (and frankly a much better defense) to 43 moved all around last year and actually ended up playing most of his snaps at rb which is like to any uw fans hoping peterson knows what the fuck he is doing out there) but when he knows what hes supposed to be doing he dominates his assignment and makes plays. hes like a kam chancellor type. nothing to really be worried about as long as you know his limitations. the comparisons to tyrann mathieu make sense in that 'tear shit up' kind of way but hes really a different kind of player and the new coaching staff is all out of wack in terms of how to handle this guy. if wilcox had remained d coordinator i promise you people would be pointing at athletic potential and freakish plays made and this dude would go no later than rd 2 assuming nfl teams like a bowles or ryan defense are moving toward getting guys who specialize in handling the space around them and creating a wall there

[Ramen]

Leonard Williams please.

[capable_keL]

Leonard Williams please.

yeah? hard to pass on him but yall need kevin white

[Ramen]

Selecting a WR that high ain't ever brought a team out of the depths my dude.

[ric]

Tennessee. what a fucking waste

[capable_keL]

Tennessee. what a fucking waste

THIS

[ric]

had to leave to watch the avengers 2. pleasantly surprised with how many uw players taken in first round. they all deserved it

that panther defense is going to be insane.
shaq + kuechly = domination
the more I think about it the more I believe the key to defending spread is your lbs and not your safeties assuming you're working inside a nickel/43 concept

[capable_keL]

Carolina and Green Bay really reached. Shaq doesn't even have a position in the NFL

[Tweak Da Leak]

Can anybody tell me anything about Gordon that's actually watched his games...not a fan of trading two picks to move up two spots, especially for an RB in the 1st fucking round.

[Prophecy]

Can anybody tell me anything about Gordon that's actually watched his games...not a fan of trading two picks to move up two spots, especially for an RB in the 1st fucking round.

Smooth runner with good vision and great acceleration I'd liken his running style to a Healthy Arian Foster. He's very patient and has great feet and loses very little speed when cutting. He's physical enough to not get brought down by arm tackles and get the tough yards but he's not a move the pile type of runner. His game speed is faster than the 4.5 he was timed at and is definitely a home run threat. He's got a good amount of work to do as a pass protector and wasn't featured as a receiver at Wisconsin outside of screen passes. He's going to have to really work hard on refining those two areas.

[capable_keL]

Gordon is a game changer. I would trade AP for him right now. You struck gold

[ric]

Carolina and Green Bay really reached. Shaq doesn't even have a position in the NFL

inasmuch as that asu kid may not be first round material I agree but I didn't pay attention to asu last year. but if there's anything greenbay needs on d it's the ability to defend a spread game and a game that incorporates the option. they were horrific against option concepts on a per play basis. if this is a step in that direction I can't fault them too much. their wr system is bomb.

flat disagree about shaq Thompson but we'll see I guess.

[capable_keL]

the packers took a guy who wasn't even ranked in the top 50 defensive prospects. the packers need a LB/DL not a guy who played 1 year of college ball.

i love shaq as a college player but he can't play LB in the NFL..way too small and he won't be fast enough to be a safety unless he plays on the line. maybe he could be a package/scheme guy but we'll see

[capable_keL]

so Chip Kelly offered the #1, QB of choice on the roster, and another player to draft Mariota?

lol

[alpha]

not enough or too much for the lol?

[capable_keL]

I think the Titans are stupid. he definitely offered more than enough imo

personally, i'm not high on Mariota at all

[alpha]

me either, but he's perfect for the Eagles.

[capable_keL]

yup; he would have been great for the eagles but I think he'll struggle in Tennessee
Mettenberger is demanding a trade, I guess he's scared to compete with the Hawaiian

[Ramen]

Probably won't even be offered the chance to compete.

[ric]

rics draft grades by player (not necessarily team) by 1/3 tiers and sort of in order
thing that jumps out this year is a ton of off and def line
1
car
nyj
jax (some real good finds here but also some wtf moments like tj yeldon 2nd rd (fell off real hard last year) but michael bennett in the 6th? i mean puhleez cant believe they got this guy)
atl
hou
neor
tmpby
stl (entirely dependent on gurley here though; they are bottom 2nd tier if gurley cant play)
nyg (they played so safe; they only had 5 picks; first 3 rds were nice)
chi

2
gb (for their team though this is mostly great draft; not sure about that safety though as 1st rd but they got hundley and montgomery to develop which is super dangerous given that that is what they do)
cle
az
oak (a ton of picks though; maybe they should be higher because of that)
cinc
phi (almost all defense draft)
ind
min
was
kc
pats
mia

3
ten (look their second pick was a wr who is zomg really really tall and didnt play at all last year)
det
bal (i have no idea about perriman though really)
pit (pretty disappointing really)
sea (ought to get a safety; didnt; nonetheless not a quality draft but its no big for what they do; no real hidden values here unlike previous carrol drafts but this is a position specific search)
dal
buf
sd (no matter what you think of m.gordon this is not good draft judging by quality per player)
den (prepping to run the ball though obv)
sf (seriously probably worst player quality; i would love to say middle but its just not in the cards; who the fuck is jaquiski tartt and why is he their 2nd rd choice? they are taking blake bell for fuck sake but i like smelter but i am a gt bitch so what can i say? serious though par for the course. sorry 49 fans)

[ric]

watched a couple perriman games. exciting prospect.

owns his space on the catch (flinches away from the ball sometimes; oddly enough will go into traffic for a catch). will pretty do anything to make a catch is huge plus but doesnt always execute which seems to me to be a ball tracking issue (which is hard to blame him for because ucf qb is wild inconsistent). fast and super fluid with some size. plays physical but sometimes doesnt know how to use his body; great after the catch. natural runner after release. hes not low enough on his cuts etc which seems nitpicky but it does bite him in the ass sometimes ie lack of balance. technical problems may be an issue: hes only got one release move and its pretty inconsistent against mid/bottom level db competition. he needs to watch his balance and his feet or he is going to be plastered. he may be overhyped a little bit because as far as ive seen dbs are just giving him what he wants like 90% of the time (which may be a level of competition issue). needs to be more consistent on his footwork off the snap and his stance pre snap. this is actually the biggest flaw to his game. he lacks a solid release move that he executes well AND he comes out of the snap inconsistently both in terms of balance and in terms of footwork. but once he gets running he looks natural.

his ability to run routes is hard to gauge. he executes some things well and other things very poorly. but for his breaks and most of his cuts its like hes out oh hes in oh hes out like no big f deal. also considering how crazy his qb play is sometimes he is remarkably good at adjusting.

draftbreakdown only has one frank clark (seahawk) game um vs nu

not solid. not bad. he is a sweet "football player" but his lack of technique will be an issue rushing the passer unless hes coached up which is fine cause thats what carroll and co do but theyre gonna have to teach him some shit. here is the thing though
1) the physical shit is sweet 6'3(?) 271. probably good strength combine stats
2) huge motor and big heart
3) hes always very aware of where the play is hes devoted to making a play and hes mentally very very quick. hes like freakishly aware. its just weird. maybe it was just a lucky game for him. he is like qb is rolling out? oh i guess i should be right in his throwing lane. play action? yeah i smelled that and i played my position well so im in position to drive to make a play. they trying to cut block me? just move aside young man i have balls to swat at. reverse action? yeah i saw that coming. counter action? ive smelled that out and i know where you are going.

but then like i said his lack of technique on pass rush is issue and he has a tendency to allow himself to be blocked and therefore stopped cold. but im thinking that carroll and co wont care because theyll want another red bryant type which in my opinion is the better way to play defense for them because all that one gap heavy shit got them in to trouble when teams knew what they were doing (ie sd gb car pats rams) and it wouldnt surprise me if they go back to the defensive stuff they used the year before last with all that multi two gapping shit on dline. i mean to me that is just a better way to play defense

[eternalreflection]

Selecting a WR that high ain't ever brought a team out of the depths my dude.

It would be interesting to see what would have happened if Randy Moss was drafted in the top 5 in 97

MN 97 9-7 -5PD
MN 98 15-1 260PD

obviously not entirely Moss but he was a huge part of it, defenses were so unprepared for him that he might have done it anywhere, Oakland had Jeff George on the roster who went to MN the next year and had massive stat improvements

[ric]

@kel
today found a great podcast called Purple FTW where the dude who does a weekly podcast on the vikings interviews this dude matt waldman who i think has done or does some professional scouting as well as running a website or whatever

great episode

http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/andy-ca ... e-37541958" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and they just discuss prospects in general as well as vikes specific. this is pre-draft

[GUCCI CONDOMS]

Cowboys signed LSU G/T La'El Collins to a three-year, $1.65 million contract.
The Cowboys' rich offensive line gets even richer. Speaking to Collins' unusual status as an undrafted free agent, his deal is fully guaranteed. It can be renegotiated after only two seasons. Collins (6'5/305) earned the 2014 Jacobs Trophy as the SEC's top offensive lineman, finishing his career with 38 starts. He played left guard as a sophomore before protecting the blind side as a junior and senior. Collins was flagged for just one penalty in 2014. Although he was an excellent edge protector in college football's toughest conference, athletic limitations and 33 1/4-inch arms figure to push Collins inside to guard. In terms of pure playing ability, however, there may have been five better prospects in the 2015 draft. Collins is a brawler with pro-ready drive-blocking ability and will make an immediate impact in the run game. His signing is probably bad news for LG Ronald Leary.
Source: Charean Williams on Twitter May 7 - 1:31 P

Dallas O line>>>>>>>>

#THERICHGETRICHER

[capable_keL]

what a surprise, the resident rapist is a fan of the guy who killed his pregnant girlfriend