Philaflava.com ::

Mods can you poll this up?

Yes

but he'll have to wait a while since for some reason the voters don't like WRs anymore

Has to be.

Yes. Even if he played in any era where passing numbers weren't as prevalent, he'd still be a dominant player.

He wasn't around long enough, and his decline was very sharp and quick. He doesn't get my vote.

Sanders wasn't around long enough but you knew he was the best of his era. CJ has to be among the best WR of his era, no?

Philaflava wrote:Sanders wasn't around long enough but you knew he was the best of his era. CJ has to be among the best WR of his era, no?

He was, for a short period of time though. Also, Sanders never declined in his career. When he retired, he was the best RB in the NFL. Calvin is far from the best WR in the NFL currently, and Calvin is retiring a year earlier than Sanders (Sanders was 31, Calvin is 30).

Calvin played on the Lions
2 playoff games in his career = 2 losses
he is not in the top 10 in any of the big categories, EXCEPT yards/per game he is 2 overall

comparing him to Barry makes no sense besides they both played in Detroit.

He's not HOF because he doesn't have the success nor the big/long term numbers

Yeah I'm not quite so sure. he's a megastar partly because the nfl and it's bros do a good job marketing what a crazy physique he has and sure he's been consistent and he's been paid 100m+ but I mean hall of fame? I think eventually down the line maybe. well see how his body of work holds up in a time period where offenses are on top in general (of course ironically the two teams in superbowl 50 have the top ds)

here are a few guys ahead of Calvin in total yards:
Tory Holt
Derrick Mason
Steve Smith
Larry Fitzgerald
Henry Ellard
Anquan Bolden
Charlie Joiner
Jimmy Smith

...there is some perspective. Great player? yes. HOF, umm NO

capable_keL wrote:here are a few guys ahead of Calvin in total yards:
Tory Holt
Derrick Mason
Steve Smith
Larry Fitzgerald
Henry Ellard
Anquan Bolden
Charlie Joiner
Jimmy Smith

...there is some perspective. Great player? yes. HOF, umm NO

Out of the above names, larry Fitz is the only potential HOFer

Not that I watch the NFL anymore or anything, so I might be talking outta my ass, but since when is a 1,200 yard/9 TD season considered a considerable dropoff?

Kid That's Lifeless wrote:Not that I watch the NFL anymore or anything, so I might be talking outta my ass, but since when is a 1,200 yard/9 TD season considered a considerable dropoff?

since the draftkings era arrived?

the guy has been playing injured for a few seasons now. Nobody thinks he 'dropped off'. The issue is, some think his good numbers are worthy of being in the HOF. Once you look at the numbers and the history, clearly he is not in that upper echelon

Kid That's Lifeless wrote:Not that I watch the NFL anymore or anything, so I might be talking outta my ass, but since when is a 1,200 yard/9 TD season considered a considerable dropoff?

This article basically sums up everything for you...

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/02/detroit ... s-retiring" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Johnson’s reign as the undisputed best receiver in the league really only lasted three years, from 2011 to 2013. And even during that run, Johnson wasn’t putting up unheard of numbers: He averaged 101 catches, 1,712 yards and 11 touchdowns.

Outside of that peak, Johnson put up borderline Pro Bowl numbers, averaging 71 grabs for 1,080 yards and eight touchdowns over six seasons, which is basically a typical Eric Decker season

capable_keL wrote:

Kid That's Lifeless wrote:Not that I watch the NFL anymore or anything, so I might be talking outta my ass, but since when is a 1,200 yard/9 TD season considered a considerable dropoff?

since the draftkings era arrived?

the guy has been playing injured for a few seasons now. Nobody thinks he 'dropped off'. The issue is, some think his good numbers are worthy of being in the HOF. Once you look at the numbers and the history, clearly he is not in that upper echelon

Just rewatch his games this season, he clearly has dropped off. He's not the physical freak he once was. He clearly struggles to get separation, the majority of his catches come with the CB all over him and he just manages to out jump him because he's so tall. He's lost a step, period. His route running has noticeably deteriorated as well.

His ankle was hanging on by a thread. He shouldn't have even played on it

capable_keL wrote: comparing him to Barry makes no sense besides they both played in Detroit.

You know damn well why I made that comparison. Actually, playing for Detroit should be taken into consideration if anything for CJ. With the exception of possibly Fitz (simply due to longevity) he shits on everyone you mentioned below and talent wise, was superior in every conceivable way. I'm not saying he is a lock or first ballot, but with time, I can't see how he isn't voted in. It's not his fault he had atrocious quarterbacks throwing to him unlike Rice, Irvin, Fitz or Moss. CJ has more career TDs than HOFs Loften, Monk, Carter and Irvin. 11,619 receiving yards and 83 TDs isn't something to ignore, then factor in all the shitty years, shitty teams, QBs, constant injuries he faced and you'll realize how great he really was.

Tory Holt
Derrick Mason
Steve Smith
Larry Fitzgerald
Henry Ellard
Anquan Bolden
Charlie Joiner
Jimmy Smith

Besides Brady for a couple seasons, Moss had worse QBs throwing to him. All Stafford does is throw 5k yards a year. All the names on that list shit on CJ statistcally......

Philaflava wrote:

capable_keL wrote: comparing him to Barry makes no sense besides they both played in Detroit.

You know damn well why I made that comparison. Actually, playing for Detroit should be taken into consideration if anything for CJ. With the exception of possibly Fitz (simply due to longevity) he shits on everyone you mentioned below and talent wise, was superior in every conceivable way. I'm not saying he is a lock or first ballot, but with time, I can't see how he isn't voted in. It's not his fault he had atrocious quarterbacks throwing to him unlike Rice, Irvin, Fitz or Moss. CJ has more career TDs than HOFs Loften, Monk, Carter and Irvin. 11,619 receiving yards and 83 TDs isn't something to ignore, then factor in all the shitty years, shitty teams, QBs, constant injuries he faced and you'll realize how great he really was.

Tory Holt
Derrick Mason
Steve Smith
Larry Fitzgerald
Henry Ellard
Anquan Bolden
Charlie Joiner
Jimmy Smith

The big problem with the Barry Sanders/Calvin comparison, is there is always going to that thought in the back of everyone's minds that due to his insane physical stature, Calvin should have been better. With barry, that thought doesn't even come close to existing, no one would ever say that Barry should have been better in the seasons he played in the NFL, or college for that matter.

capable_keL wrote:Besides Brady for a couple seasons, Moss had worse QBs throwing to him. All Stafford does is throw 5k yards a year. All the names on that list shit on CJ statistcally......

Oh nice, you completely shitted on Runnin' Randall. Don't sleep on 1 or 2 years of Dante either.

GUCCI CONDOMS wrote:

Kid That's Lifeless wrote:Not that I watch the NFL anymore or anything, so I might be talking outta my ass, but since when is a 1,200 yard/9 TD season considered a considerable dropoff?

This article basically sums up everything for you...

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/02/detroit ... s-retiring" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And even during that run, Johnson wasn’t putting up unheard of numbers: He averaged 101 catches, 1,712 yards and 11 touchdowns.

Lol at those averages not being unheard numbers. Idiot statement.

capable_keL wrote:Besides Brady for a couple seasons, Moss had worse QBs throwing to him. All Stafford does is throw 5k yards a year. All the names on that list shit on CJ statistcally......

If anything CJ helped Stafford with the numbers he put up. Not the other way around. Stafford routinely chucked the ball up to CJ in double or triple coverage and CJ came down with the catch.

For me NFL is the only league where I don't take longevity into consideration for the hall of fame. Careers are short. And if a player can dominate the league and be the best player at his position for 5 years, I would seriously consider throwing them into the hall.

It's a no for me, but I think he'll eventually get in and I don't have a problem with it. He's in the same boat w/ Andre Johnson, it's hard when you fall off a cliff and you play for a bad team your whole career. There's going to be a lot of receivers with crazy numbers that aren't HOF material to me.

Id like to hear more about his deteriorating route running? That's something you get better at with age.

As for me, it's the longevity why he doesn't get in. If you didn't count it, then Terrell Davis and priest Holmes are hall worthy

an-also wrote:

GUCCI CONDOMS wrote:

Kid That's Lifeless wrote:Not that I watch the NFL anymore or anything, so I might be talking outta my ass, but since when is a 1,200 yard/9 TD season considered a considerable dropoff?

This article basically sums up everything for you...

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/02/detroit ... s-retiring" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And even during that run, Johnson wasn’t putting up unheard of numbers: He averaged 101 catches, 1,712 yards and 11 touchdowns.

Lol at those averages not being unheard numbers. Idiot statement.

yeah that's better than Moss and Rice's best 3 yr average. Moss doesn't have single 1700yd season fwiw.

there has only been 7 1700yd receiving seasons in NFL history

voted yes because in the end one of those change the game players that you can only try to emulate the crazy shit he did. he was a less flashy Moss. that's what it comes down to for me. because catching the ball trip covered doesn't look sexy. looks ugly. you're thinking 'man he's so big' but it's also an extraordinary feat of skill. and everybody focuses on that shit. but he also could take a 6 yd slant 75yds to the house after avoiding putting his body on anybody. that's just hall of fame caliber of football. he can't help that his team sucked or that they eventually used him primarily as a big body wr. not his fault really. could've been on any other team. it was his fault for resigning with lions though that was just dumb. could've gone to Denver Cincinnati az pats.

easy yes

and to should have gotten in first ballot easily but, ya know, politics

GUCCI CONDOMS wrote:

capable_keL wrote:here are a few guys ahead of Calvin in total yards:
Tory Holt
Derrick Mason
Steve Smith
Larry Fitzgerald
Henry Ellard
Anquan Bolden
Charlie Joiner
Jimmy Smith

...there is some perspective. Great player? yes. HOF, umm NO

Out of the above names, larry Fitz is the only potential HOFer

you ever Larry's stats for dropped passes? it's one of the most impressive things I've seen.