Songwriters that were better than Lennon/McCartney

Money Gripp · Post by **Money Gripp** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:27 pm

Roy Johnson wrote:I just thought it was odd that Masked Terror, of all people, would be a Paul Simon fan.

I like a few Simon & Garfunkel songs. I guess that I was never interested enough to hunt down their bootlegs, though.

I never got into the fun and meticulous world of "bootlegs" except for hardcore records - but due to the nature of hardcore records. It's essential.

Oh, I have my share of Sabbath, Hendrix, Cro-Mags and Joy Division bootlegs, but I could never understand the filthy hippies that would say

"Well, you probably don't like Grateful Dead because you never really heard them. Try this bootleg recording that was recorded on a farm in Vermont. I was there and smoked an ounze of weed and dropped acid...and it was the greatest concert of my life, maaaaan!"

Roy Johnson · Post by **Roy Johnson** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:52 pm

It really depends on what group or artist we're talking about. For guys like Bob Dylan and Van Morrison, a lot of their best shit is unreleased. On the other hand, if we're talking about Pink Floyd or Credence Clearwater Revival, then you're good to go if you got the official albums.

I got a Pink Floyd bootleg collection that runs about 300 discs deep (lots of 2CD sets), but none of it is fucking with the officials.

On the other hand, I don't like any of Van Morrison's studio albums, but he is hands down one of my favorite artists of all time. Thank god for the bootlegs.

drizzle · Post by **drizzle** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:32 pm

Roy Johnson wrote: I got a Pink Floyd bootleg collection that runs about 300 discs deep (lots of 2CD sets), but none of it is fucking with the officials.

i also have a massive pink floyd bootleg collection and I disagree with this

a. sound quality on most is crap, but if you upgrade from shitty cd boots to flac you'll hear a vast difference. they were always renowned for live shows, this lets you really understand why and also put into perspective how they progressed with time. At this point I would easily take a flac copy a bootleg from the Piper/Meddle years over the official release of Darkside of the moon.

b. as they are a band known for live shows, no song is ever played the same way twice. how much this matters to you depends on how much you like the band. on one hand most probably don't need 30 slightly varied versions of echoes. on the other hand some of the earlier versions of songs performed prior to official release are drastically different (very early versions of You gotta be crazy vs what ended up as Dogs for example).

Roy Johnson · Post by **Roy Johnson** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:41 pm

drizzle wrote:
Roy Johnson wrote: I got a Pink Floyd bootleg collection that runs about 300 discs deep (lots of 2CD sets), but none of it is fucking with the officials.
i also have a massive pink floyd bootleg collection and I disagree with this

a. sound quality on most is crap, but if you upgrade from shitty cd boots to flac you'll hear a vast difference. they were always renowned for live shows, this lets you really understand why and also put into perspective how they progressed with time. At this point I would easily take a flac copy a bootleg from the Piper/Meddle years over the official release of Darkside of the moon.

b. as they are a band known for live shows, no song is ever played the same way twice. how much this matters to you depends on how much you like the band. on one hand most probably don't need 30 slightly varied versions of echoes. on the other hand some of the earlier versions of songs performed prior to official release are drastically different (very early versions of You gotta be crazy vs what ended up as Dogs for example).

What I really mean is that it's hard to surpass what they did on the studio albums, and that's not to say that the live albums aren't terrific. It's just that their studio albums are legendary.

Also, the quality is phenomenal on a good portion of the Pink Floyd concerts that I received in trades. Here are the ones that I have graded as A+ recordings:

Complete Concertgebouw 2CD 9/17/69 A+
Broadcasting From Europe 1/23/70 A+
Interstellar Fillmore 2CD 4/29/70 A+
Libest Spacement Monitor 1CD 7/16/70 A+
Paris Theatre, London 1CD 7/16/70 A+
Smoking Blues 2CD 11/21/70 A+
Black Wizard 2CD 9/18/71 A+
Meddler 1CD 9/30/71 A+
One Of These Days 1CD 9/30/71 A+
Bytes Of The Talisman 1CD 10/3/71 A+
Eclipse Of The Darkside 2CD 1/20/72 A+
Best Of The 72 Tour 1CD 2/17/72 A+
Darkside Of The Rising Sun 1CD 3/13/72 A+
Darkside Of Chicago 1CD 4/28/72 A+
Bowl De Luna 2CD 9/22/72 A+
Staying Home To Watch The Rain 2CD 9/22/72 A+
Return Of The Sons Of Nothing 1CD 11/15/72 A+
Brain Damage 1CD 11/16/74 A+
Cruel But Fair 2CD 4/26/75 A+
Dogs And Sheep 2CD 4/26/75 A+
Hogs In Smog 2CD 4/26/75 A+
Echoes In The Garden 2CD 6/18/75 A+
Crazy Diamonds 2CD 6/18/75 A+
Steel Breeze 2CD 6/28/75 A+
Animals Tour Debut 2CD 1/23/77 A+
Animals From The Soundboard 1CD 1/29/77 A+
With Bright Knives 2CD 2/4/77 A+
Animal Instinct 2CD 5/9/77 A+
In The Flesh 2CD 5/9/77 A+
In A Pig's Eye 2CD 7/2/77 A+
Monopoly 2CD 2/28/80 A+
Wall Live At Dortmund 2CD 2/16/81 A+
Prism 2CD 9/19/87 A+
Dogs Of War 1CD 9/28/87 A+
Delusions Of Maturity 2CD 9/30/87 A+
Knebworth Tales 6/30/90 A+
The Live Bell 2CD 3/30/94 A+
Just Warmin' Up 1CD 5/5/94 A+
The Bell Gets Louder 2CD 6/11/94 A+
Softly Spoken Magic Spells 2CD 9/4/94 A+
Mutinae 2CD 9/14/94 A+
Out Of This World 2CD 10/20/94 A+
8th Round From The Moon (LIVE: 1969-1977) 2CD A+
Before Time Began (LIVE: 1967-1970) 1CD A+
BBC Archives 1970-1971 2CD A+
All Movement Is Accomplished (LIVE: 1967-1969) 1CD A+
Around The Mystic (VARIOUS LIVE: 1969) 1CD A+

Of course, the bulk of 'em are in the A- to A range.

ric · Post by **ric** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:12 pm

elvis costello
lol @ miles davis. that shit is all gil evans, bill evans, cannonball adderley or wayne shorter. just about all of it.
duke ellington/billy strahan
dizzy gillespie/charlie parker
basie
MONK
harry connick jr
wynton marsalis
tom waits (and whoever writes with him, i think his wife)

for sinatra, yes hes written songs. maybe not wrote the charts but at the very least hes a lyricist. not too sure whether or not he wrote the charts for Nancy with a Laughing Face and Im a Fool to Want You. hes got some minor lyrical credits on a few others.

ric · Post by **ric** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:20 pm

also: nick drake
elliot smith

b0mbs_of_death · Post by **b0mbs_of_death** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:27 am

Mick Jagger and Keith Richards from 68-72
David Bowie

Diss04 · Post by **Diss04** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:27 pm

Elvis Costello
Nick Cave
Neil Young
Bob Dylan
Townes Van Zandt

ones that spring to mind

Diss04 · Post by **Diss04** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:33 pm

oh and Bowie

360 · Post by **360** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:32 pm

Bowie.

And MT1 is dead serious.

The fact that we like metal has nothing to do with this thread.We are on a hiphop site, for christ's sake. Rick Rubin is awesome because threads like these enable posters to approach topics objectively(for the most part). Just look at this thread... you have Prince, Leonard Cohen, Paul Simon, Elvis Costello etc. all mentioned

You just can't get more unbiased than that.

Sylissez · Post by **Sylissez** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:43 am

admiral wrote:Leonard Cohen

This is the answer I was looking for.

Cohen is the fucking man.

Huldrich Bullsh!t · Post by **Huldrich Bullsh!t** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:36 pm

a song has to have singing by default hence the name song.
Coltrane and Miles Davis, Morricone etc. do not belong in this thread. its a totally different thing.

im amazed Burt Bacharach/Hal David werent mentioned. def one of the best duos to ever do it.
Bill Withers was a great songwriter imo