'Doe Or Die' vs 'Reasonable Doubt'

[step one]

2 debut albums that marked a change in the style of East Coast rap from the hardcore timberland grimey stuff (Wu Tang, Hit Squad, Biggie) to the more smoothed out soulful player shit


Features Nas on the dope 'Mo Money, Mo Murder...' and includes production by Pete Rock, LES, DR Period, Buckwild & NO Joe


Features Biggie, Sauce Money, Mary J, Foxy Brown, Memphis Bleek and The Jaz. Includes production by Ski, Irv Gotti, Premier, Clark Kent

Favourite/Best ?

[banister kronos]

Doe Or Die!

[night_shade]

Doe Or Die!

[Quotashun]

RD

[Tim Burton]

Do or Die!!

[Versive]

Doe or Die is dope, no doubt, but it's not touching Resonable Doubt.

[Bigg Boss Luciano]

Doe Or Die by a light year... In My Lifetime > RD, imho.

[Dragondude R]

Doe or Die

[bbatson1]

Not even close. Reasonable Doubt all day.

[step one]

My main beef with RD is 'Aint No Nigga' . Aside from suffering from being overplayed at the time, it sticks out like a sore thumb on the album. Doesnt fit in with the rest of the album at all.
There's also the thing where I suspect people have got a bit fed up with Jay Z whereas AZ isnt anywhere near as ubiquitous which makes his music a bit more enjoyable.

[night_shade]

My main beef with RD is 'Aint No Nigga' . Aside from suffering from being overplayed at the time, it sticks out like a sore thumb on the album. Doesnt fit in with the rest of the album at all.
There's also the thing where I suspect people have got a bit fed up with Jay Z whereas AZ isnt anywhere near as ubiquitous which makes his music a bit more enjoyable.

Agreed.

[dustyhands]

Reasonable Doubt. RD is unquestionably jay z's best album and one of my favs for the year of 96. i loves "aint no nigga". epmd rhymed over the same track 8 years prior. nothing was wrong with them doing it, so nothing should have been wrong with jay z doing it.

[shadowmaster]

RD is maybe technically the better lp but I like / liked Doe or Die more. AZ has never really recorded an lp full of what his potential always was. Always has some odd choices on there, Doe or Die and Pieces of a Man probably suffer the least.

[Kool Max Power]

Not even close. Reasonable Doubt all day.

I agree.

[djfilthyrich]

Not even close. Reasonable Doubt all day.

i second that (and i think the majority of heads would too). There's a reason why ppl always hold RD in high regard...

[vaporized2]

Doe Or Die. Not by a massive margin. Both very good if not great mcs, both albums have a few killer beats. But to me it seems like RD requires the listener to buy into Jay Z's persona more, whereas you can chill to Doe Or Die without feeling like you're being forced to empathize with AZ's life story and 'struggle'. and I prefer that.

[night_shade]

But to me it seems like RD requires the listener to buy into Jay Z's persona more, whereas you can chill to Doe Or Die without feeling like you're being forced to empathize with AZ's life story and 'struggle'. and I prefer that.

Yeah word. If you don't really dig the Jay-Z persona, or you've just gotten tired of it, then it's hard to appreciate the man's music. Dude always seems to throwing a party for himself, it gets old.

Az's a lot less showy, has a lot less swagger, and a lot more technical skill if you ask me. Less acting, more rapping.

As for what album is more of a "classic", and more important in the history of hip hop, RD without a (reasonable) doubt. As far as craft goes it's also probably the better album. But I still bump Doe or Die on occasion, and I never play RD....that has to mean something.

[Verge]

[shadowmaster]

This is probably besides the point but Mo Money Mo Murder (Homicide), with the beat and the raps / delivery achieved that movie feel better than most tracks from that mafioso era, it had a definite vibe to it. The video couldn't really match the song unless they had a far higher budget.

[clark bent]

outside of 'rather unique' which is phenomenal doe or die is an average album at best

[Huldrich Bullsh!t]

the production on doe or die was very underwhelming

[stype_ones]

RD for sure. If AZ would have made 1 or 2 better songs and had the original Your World Don't Stop instead of that bullshit version this discussion would be much different in my opinion. I loved the album but it was not as good as it should or could have been.

[I Smell Like Un Kasa]

Doe Or Die by a nosehair

[bad-cop]

RD gets more play in my ride

[mud]

This is probably besides the point but Mo Money Mo Murder (Homicide), with the beat and the raps / delivery achieved that movie feel better than most tracks from that mafioso era, it had a definite vibe to it. The video couldn't really match the song unless they had a far higher budget.

Was never a huge fan of that. "The Essence" is still the best collabo by them, followed by "Serious"

No popular opinions, but way less controversial than this ridiculous thread title.

[Galvatron78]

Reasonable Doubt and it's not even close.

[night_shade]

Reasonable Doubt and it's not even close.

Yeah, I just gave both a listen and I'm coming to see it that way. I seem to remember Doe or Die being a lot better than it was, really I think I was just thinking of Rather Unique, which is close to being a perfect song imo.

There's something to be said for Uncut Raw, although it sounds like it belongs on a different album altogether.

[shadowmaster]

This is probably besides the point but Mo Money Mo Murder (Homicide), with the beat and the raps / delivery achieved that movie feel better than most tracks from that mafioso era, it had a definite vibe to it. The video couldn't really match the song unless they had a far higher budget.

Was never a huge fan of that. "The Essence" is still the best collabo by them, followed by "Serious"

No popular opinions, but way less controversial than this ridiculous thread title.

I never really liked 'The Essence', but I know I'm in the minority on that. I'd say 'Life's a Bitch' is still their best track together.

[Thun]

Reasonable Doubt has the lower lows but the higher highs.

Brooklyn's Finest is the worst piece of shit song that people pretend to be a classic.

[step one]

Reasonable Doubt and it's not even close.

current votes suggest otherwise

Doe Or Die 54% [ 14 ]
Reasonable Doubt 46% [ 12 ]

@ Thun getting grumpy about Brooklyns Finest. Track is dope. I actually bought RD on the strength of that (I already had the Dead Pres/Aint No 12")