Philaflava.com ::

Tuesday, November 9th, 1993.

Wu-Tang's debut, on Loud and Tribe's third LP, on Jive.

Pick your favorite and / or the better album, doesn't matter.

2 defining slabs of rap history,MM edges it for me... just

Can't vote on this one...but a beautiful reminder of what a great time it was

vaporized2 wrote:Two defining slabs of rap history, Midnight Marauders edges it for me...just.

Today I might feel inclined to say the same, but around that time I was definitely listening to the Wu debut more. Can't call it.

aleph wrote:Can't vote on this one...but a beautiful reminder of what a great time it was.

I was tryin' to think of another day with two (or more) albums of this magnitude / influence, so far I haven't thought of anything.

And I've resisted from voting as well. It definitely seems to be a moment for some. Partly because it's an odd pairing and can be difficult to really compare the two.

I like that there are a few parallels though. The group vibe, the cohesive album feeling, the memorable skits that help explain and tie everything together.

Results are about what I thought they would be so far.

at the time, I'd have gone with 36 Chambers. I hadnt heard anything like it when it came out. These days I probably play the Tribe album more often. Probably because Im 34 this year :)

When judging that specific day that both albums dropped, I'd say I was a little more intrigued by 36 Chambers from the way Wu Tang's music was circulating around NYC for awhile. It was a build to finally witness the debut of The Wu after hearing Protect Ya Neck/Method Man on underground radio, seeing the videos and a few interviews whereas with Tribe I kinda knew what I was gonna get. I like both albums almost equally when judging in an overall historical sense though.

I can't say enough about either album. Both are extremely important and have innovated soooooooooooooo many people. On this day, I'm going with MM. I still consider it one of the few albums I can listen to front to back, multiple times and NEVER get tired of it. It's timeless.

I remember this day. I was with my Mom(RIP), grand moms(RIP), grand pops(RIP), and my baby brother(almost RIP recently, still fightin). We went to this place called "Grandma's" (it later turned into an IHOP) to get pancakes and shit. But across the highway was the Hudson Mall and they had a little record store called WOW records there. I knew before going that i was gonna order my pancakes then run across the street and buy both tapes, which i did. But then i went straight to the car cause I HAD to hear that WU Tang shit! Listened to almost the full album by the time they finished eating and got yelled at for never coming back in to eat with fam but it was okay they got my shit to go and i went home, smoked and listened to the Tribe shit while eating cold pancakes.
Great night, wish i could go back.

step one wrote:At the time, I'd have gone with 36 Chambers. I hadn't heard anything like it when it came out. These days I probably play the Tribe album more often.

This is basically where I'm at with it.

fatboybrandon wrote:When judging that specific day that both albums dropped, I'd say I was a little more intrigued by 36 Chambers from the way Wu-Tang's music was circulating around NYC for awhile. It was a build to finally witness the debut of The Wu after hearing Protect Ya Neck / Method Man on underground radio, seeing the videos and a few interviews whereas with Tribe I kinda knew what I was gonna get. I like both albums almost equally when judging in an overall historical sense though.

Interesting take, I wasn't thinking about it like that. I was more talking about it from a looking back perspective. On the day of, I think most people would go for Wu-Tang just because it was fresh and exciting. The streets were buzzing about the Wu for sure. But of course Tribe did better commercially at the time. They were already established and more accessible.

Philaflava wrote:I can't say enough about either album. Both are extremely important and have innovated so many people. On this day, I'm going with Midnight Marauders. I still consider it one of the few albums I can listen to front to back, multiple times and never get tired of it. It's timeless.

Yeah, whereas Tribe's release worked more as an album, Wu-Tang's worked more as a group, if that makes sense.

Verge wrote:I remember this day. I was with my mom (RIP), grand moms (RIP), grand pops (RIP) and my baby brother (almost RIP recently, still fightin'). We went to this place called "Grandma's" (it later turned into an IHOP) to get pancakes and shit. But across the highway was the Hudson Mall and they had a little record store called WOW Records there. I knew before going that I was gonna order my pancakes then run across the street and buy both tapes, which I did. But then I went straight to the car 'cause I had to hear that Wu-Tang shit! Listened to almost the full album by the time they finished eating and got yelled at for never coming back in to eat with fam but it was okay, they got my shit to go and I went home, smoked and listened to the Tribe shit while eating cold pancakes. Great night, wish I could go back.

That's a good memory to have. You know the music means something when you can remember the day that well twenty years after the fact. And there are definitely times where I wish I could go back, word up.

Not even in the same galaxy... suuuuuuu

at the time, I'd have gone with 36 Chambers. I hadnt heard anything like it when it came out. These days I probably play the Tribe album more often. Probably because Im 34 this year :)

I'm 18 and I feel the same way. When I first heard these albums I would have gone with 36 chambers. Since then I've slowed down and grown old (started reading, sometimes listening pretty much exclusively to slow jazz) and I bump tribe a lot more. I had to go with 36 Chambers in the poll though on a purely objective basis as there was nothing else like it when it came out. In terms of "groundbreaking", midnight marauders isn't quite as original. I feel so old and I wasn't even born when these classics came out

Verge wrote:I remember this day. I was with my Mom(RIP), grand moms(RIP), grand pops(RIP), and my baby brother(almost RIP recently, still fightin). We went to this place called "Grandma's" (it later turned into an IHOP) to get pancakes and shit. But across the highway was the Hudson Mall and they had a little record store called WOW records there. I knew before going that i was gonna order my pancakes then run across the street and buy both tapes, which i did. But then i went straight to the car cause I HAD to hear that WU Tang shit! Listened to almost the full album by the time they finished eating and got yelled at for never coming back in to eat with fam but it was okay they got my shit to go and i went home, smoked and listened to the Tribe shit while eating cold pancakes.
Great night, wish i could go back.

I remember when I got round to buying 36 Chambers, I kept increasing the volume in my friend's car as I played it, he was young (so was I) but a very nervous driver plus he had completely different taste in music, and kind of lost it at one point. I had pushed him too far in the past with other stuff. Funny dumb shit. I can also remember being with another old friend and making him buy Midnight Marauders.

I morally can not vote in this poll. I hold both releases so high. Both of them are bonafide classics.

I went two or three months straight on that Wu. I was into old king fu flicks before that came out and hearing all the samples had me bugging. Very original.

MM was a little less frantic but built on the LET formula but a little more polished.

All in all, I can't call it. These two take me back to a more carefree time in my life and nostalgia prevents me from making a decision.

So no question... 36 for eva eva, nobody and no1 can catch this nr1 place..... this album was change ALL

Easy call for me, i never really liked wu-tang. Midnight Marauders can't stand out as an album, cause of ATCQ previous work, but it's more consistent and much more timeless. I'm not able to put any of these into the right time/place frame (due to the fact that i'm not a newyorker nor i'd been listening to rap prior to '93) so i'm being fully subjective here (and that's why i avoid voting).

Maybe i should give 36 Chambers a fresh listen, it's been mad years since the last time. I bought it the same day with Bacdafucup, i think a poll between em would be interesting too.

PS Damn Verge, fate has not been good to you n your family... i wish your brother gets better and never has to deal with that shit again.

I don't want to choose.

I love them both.

:-(

Somewhere between three outta five (sixty percent) and two thirds (sixty six percent) have been picking 36 Chambers the whole time, but that's about what I expected. New, raw approach from outta left field, legion of hardcore fans to this day (many of them online), more ג€œyouthfulג€ sounding (:wutang:u-Tang's for the children). Plus a lot of the people who can't choose might've gone with Tribe. The sales at the time certainly didn't reflect people snatching up 36 Chambers over Midnight Marauders two outta three times.

Bigg Boss Luciano wrote:Not even in the same galaxy...suuuuuuu.

The fact that multiple people can't seem to decide shows otherwise. I get what you mean though.

Da Me wrote:When I first heard these albums I would have gone with 36 chambers. Since then I've slowed down and grown old and I bump Tribe a lot more. I had to go with 36 Chambers in the poll though on a purely objective basis as there was nothing else like it when it came out. In terms of "groundbreaking", Midnight Marauders isn't quite as original. I feel so old and I wasn't even born when these classics came out.

Yeah a few of the Tribe supporters seem to be thinking that way. And thanks for explaining your vote. Some people may prefer Tribe but feel that Wu is better in this case, which changes the results. I like how the numbers say one thing but the comments tell a more nuanced story.

shadowmaster wrote:I remember when I got round to buying 36 Chambers, I kept increasing the volume in my friend's car as I played it, he was young (so was I) but a very nervous driver plus he had completely different taste in music and kind of lost it at one point. I had pushed him too far in the past with other stuff. Funny dumb shit. I can also remember being with another old friend and making him buy Midnight Marauders.

Hah, I remember doin' that kinda shit drivin' around with friends, good stuff.

chiefbombpro wrote:I morally can not vote in this poll. I hold both releases so high. Both of them are bonafide classics.

I went two or three months straight on that Wu. I was into old kung-fu flicks before that came out and hearing all the samples had me bugging. Very original.

Midnight Marauders was a little less frantic but built on the Low End Theory formula but a little more polished.

All in all, I can't call it. These two take me back to a more carefree time in my life and nostalgia prevents me from making a decision.

Yeah, it's difficult to bring something new to the table, especially with a large group of people. And they did it amazingly well. But it's arguably equally hard to be consistent in maintaining your sound while changing up the formula yet again since you managed to avoid the sophomore slump last time around.

Tribe's is a well planned out and crafted album, which in a way almost feels like the antithesis of the sporadic, random seeming nature of the Wu's debut. And with Tribe, people have something to compare back to.

STAM wrote:So no question...36 for ever, nobody and no one can catch this number one place...this album was change all.

If I only had the money to buy one back in the day, it would've been Wu, just to hear it.

Architek wrote:Easy call for me, I never really liked Wu-Tang. Midnight Marauders can't stand out as an album, 'cause of previous work, but it's more consistent and much more timeless. I'm not able to put any of these into the right time / place frame (due to the fact that I'm not a New Yorker nor had I been listening to rap prior to '93) so I'm being fully subjective here (and that's why I avoid voting).

Maybe I should give 36 Chambers a fresh listen, it's been mad years since the last time. I bought it the same day with Bacdafucup, I think a poll between 'em would be interesting too.

Well the subjective Wu-Tang heads are definitely voting, so go 'head if you wanna. It's interesting to hear the opposite angle though.

Yeah, that'd be a more apples to apples comparison but Wu would just end up crushing that even more than this.

Part of the issue is Tribe had other albums that other people are thinking, well, I liked the first or second one better. For Wu-Tang, this is the group album. It's like NaS' debut, there are a few people who prefer a different release, but really, everybody knows what's up.

Boothe wrote:I don't want to choose. I love them both.

Yeah, that's part of why I made this thread in the first place. Good day for hip hop though, right?

Architek wrote:I bought it the same day with Bacdafucup, i think a poll between em would be interesting.

it would be interesting to see if onyx received a single vote

The Japanese one.

I def listened to 36 Chambers way more initially, and now may listen to MM more...maybe. But if for nothing else, 36 Chambers should win because Midnight Marauders isn't even Tribe's best album. Or second best.

kimani wrote:if for nothing else, 36 Chambers should win because Midnight Marauders isn't even Tribe's best album. Or second best.

yeah, pretty much this too.

Verge wrote:

kimani wrote:if for nothing else, 36 Chambers should win because Midnight Marauders isn't even Tribe's best album. Or second best.

yeah, pretty much this too.

How is it not at least Tribe's second best album? You prefer People's Instinctive.... to Midnight Marauders?

Also, in my opinion this is highly faulty logic. I love Wu-Tang, but as a group their albums all have highs and lows. 36 was way more groundbreaking, and thus earns a lot of sympathy from me here, but I definitely have listened to Midnight Marauders end to end, way more times over the years than I have Enter the 36 Chambers.

B. Ware tha Siniq wrote:

Verge wrote:

kimani wrote:if for nothing else, 36 Chambers should win because Midnight Marauders isn't even Tribe's best album. Or second best.

yeah, pretty much this too.

How is it not at least Tribe's second best album? You prefer People's Instinctive.... to Midnight Marauders?

All too easily. MM and Low End tied.

clark bent wrote:It would be interesting to see if Onyx received a single vote.

Yeah, pretty much.

kimani wrote:I definitely listened to 36 Chambers way more initially and now may listen to Midnight Marauders more...maybe. But if for nothing else, 36 Chambers should win because Midnight Marauders isn't even Tribe's best album. Or second best.

See I'm with most of this but I think there's more to it than that. It depends on what your stipulations are for voting. Also, don't know if I said it at the time but I'm glad you're back.

B. Ware tha Siniq wrote:Also, in my opinion this is highly faulty logic. I love Wu-Tang, but as a group their albums all have highs and lows. 36 was way more groundbreaking and thus earns a lot of sympathy from me here, but I definitely have listened to Midnight Marauders end to end way more times over the years than I have Enter the 36 Chambers.

I agree with this. It's primarily a matter of consistency versus innovativeness when you look at it like that.

aleph wrote:

B. Ware tha Siniq wrote:How is it not at least Tribe's second best album? You prefer People's Instinctive Travels and the Paths of Rhythm to Midnight Marauders?

All too easily. Midnight Marauders and Low End Theory tied.

I wasn't gonna get into all this but yes, personally I'd probably go for the debut, then sophomore, then Midnight Marauders, in that order. Not that any of that really factors into my decision making in this poll.

But the forum as a whole seemed to largely disagree with that as far as the preferential Tribe LP in the (more recent) poll we had about all this:

http://philaflava.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=124058

Over half the results were for Midnight Marauders above anything else in ATCQ's catalogue. So not only do most people seem to prefer this over the debut, they prefer it to any other one album from them, if we're to believe the results.

Regardless, the fact is, pitting the definitive Wu-Tang album against any of the first three Tribe albums is going to divide votes.

aleph wrote:

B. Ware tha Siniq wrote:

Verge wrote:

kimani wrote:if for nothing else, 36 Chambers should win because Midnight Marauders isn't even Tribe's best album. Or second best.

yeah, pretty much this too.

How is it not at least Tribe's second best album? You prefer People's Instinctive.... to Midnight Marauders?

All too easily. MM and Low End tied.

Yep. But no tie for me, I go with the Low End right after the debut, then MM. So yeah, chronologically for me. For many years my favorites from them would rotate and change between the 3 but for the last couple of years this is how i see them.

i don't know i do think midnight marauders is their best album .. maaaybe their second best after low end theory.. but either way i think it comes down to if you prefer native tounges to wu tang gangsta type of shit.. because both are the groups at their prime.. i prefer wu-tang..

Verge wrote:Yep. But no tie for me, I go with the Low End right after the debut, then Midnight Marauders. So yeah, chronologically for me. For many years my favorites from them would rotate and change between the three but for the last couple of years this is how I see them.

EichTurner wrote:I don't know, I do think Midnight Marauders is their best album...maybe their second best after Low End Theory. But either way I think it comes down to if you prefer Native Tongues to Wu-Tang gangsta type of shit. Because both are the groups at their prime. I prefer Wu-Tang...

Seems to be the more common consensus among fans. And yeah, that's certainly a large part of it.

They were both in their prime in that they both certainly didn't continue to get better as groups (album-wise) after these albums. The difference is Tribe had dropped a couple albums already and were gearin' to fuck up the formula. Wu was just getting started, but as a group after this album, is mostly known for their abundance of solo material (and rightfully so). So it's easy to look beyond the scope of the album for both groups when trying to compare, which is part of the issue as well.

fatboybrandon wrote:When judging that specific day that both albums dropped, I'd say I was a little more intrigued by 36 Chambers from the way Wu Tang's music was circulating around NYC for awhile. It was a build to finally witness the debut of The Wu after hearing Protect Ya Neck/Method Man on underground radio, seeing the videos and a few interviews whereas with Tribe I kinda knew what I was gonna get.

That right there.

The buzz Wu had at the time in NYC was ridiculous. A gang of dudes bumrushed thier way in and ppl were curious to see how so many cats were gonna sound on one album. And we all know how that went.

Voting by the day they came out, I'm going with 36, but with age I'm saying MM.

MM is a fantastic album, but it was a "more of the same" record, and Tribe didn't sound unique around that time. 36 Chambers was a ground-breaking "what the fuck am i listening to???" kind of record, so that wins to me.

Like everyone, it seems, I listen to MM way more now.

Send One wrote:Voting by the day they came out, I'm going with 36, but with age I'm saying Midnight Marauders.

Seems to be the theme.

PopsUK wrote:Midnight Marauders is a fantastic album, but it was a "more of the same" record and Tribe didn't sound unique around that time. 36 Chambers was a groundbreaking, "what the fuck am I listening to?" kind of record, so that wins to me. Like everyone, it seems, I listen to Midnight Marauders way more now.

That's what I like about this line up. It's best vs. favorite, then vs. now, experimental innovation vs. crafted consistency. Those juxtapositions are nice. Plus it's two cornerstones on the same day.

i agree with EichTurner...both albums are great, but the sound/styles are different: jazzy-conscious vs. raw-gangsta. i personally like the gritty hiphop more, which is why i chose Wu. i rank that album in my top 5 all time.