DSD:Big L/Dana Dane/Ol' Dirty Bastard

[TheBigSleep]

Tuesday, March 28th, 1995.

Three LPs: Big L's debut, on Columbia Records, Dana Dane's third, via Maverick Records and Ol' Dirty Bastard's first, through Elektra Records.

Pick your favorite and / or the best album, doesn't matter.

Previous Dropped Same Day(s):

Enter the 36 Chambers vs. Midnight Marauders.
Guerrillas in tha Mist vs. Runaway Slave vs. Stunts, Blunts & Hip Hop vs. Whut? Thee Album.
'93 'til Infinity vs. 187 He Wrote vs. Return of the Boom Bap.
Blowout Comb vs. The Diary vs. (Twista's) Resurrection vs. Word...Life.

[Bigg Boss Luciano]

DJ Battlecat got me tempted to pick Dane Dane, but I went with one of my fav. mc's Big L.

Never really liked ODB's joint (except for the singles)... then again, when it comes to in 95, it was all about the Cuban Linx for me.

[Mark 563]

I don't expect it to get any votes, but the Dana Dane was enjoyable for what it was (although joint about child-molesters was kinda awkward), especially 'Record Jock'.

[TheBigSleep]

Yeah, this one's gonna be all about which debut album / deceased crew member you prefer:



Originally when I conceived of this series the ones I had in mind were the Wu and Tribe match up, Diamond vs. Show & A and L against ODB. So there's another connection there as well.

Also, if you didn't already know, I had to reset last week's to include O.C.'s Word...Life album. So if you didn't (re)vote, that one still has less than all the others.

(I have a good group of four from the mid nineties for next week and then we'll probably move to the late nineties, if only for a bit, per Chaz's request. Still taking suggestions though.)

[Tim Burton]

I gotta go with Big L on this one. Ol Dirty put out a good album but I listened to the Big L album a lot more. It was a little more straight forward which I prefer. Dana Dane put out a good album. I never bought it but a buddy did and when I borrow it...it was worth the listen.

[thebohdan252]

Odb and it's not even close.

My favourite all time mc, his best album, no contest

[darkwingduck]

Odb and it's not even close.

My favourite all time mc, his best album, no contest

[Verge]

Big L. But not a "not even close" thing at all. If Dirty's earlier Wu stuff and whatever else he was on before this wasn't enough, his appearance on Stretch n Bobbito with 12 O'Clock and Buddha Monk had me droolin for the album, pause.
<object width="420" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lTwBoFLIuY0?ve ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lTwBoFLIuY0?version=3&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>
Entire session is greatness, but @4:40 on>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Also thought we'd hear more from 12 O'clock & Buddha Monk after that night but they didn't go on to much afaik. I mean, after hearing their verses here I thought they were gonna drop a bangin album soon.
I was listening to a couple of NCS(Nappy Crumb Snatchers) youtubes from their EP earlier and I think one of them may be Buddha Monk or 12 Oclock, I dunno.

Still went with Big L and now after just reminiscing in my brain about this shit, I might regret that vote. Both albums had some great shit and both got mad play from me when they dropped and through the years. Danger Zone is maybe the most vivid darkest classics ever, imo. It will never age for me.

[cleanprophet]

I went for Big L but could easily have gone for ODB.

ODB's high points were HIGH! But the Big L album is a better overall listen, less lengthy tedious skits etc.

Both these albums take me back to my Easter break in last year of school, good times!

[TheBigSleep]

Thanks to everybody explaining your vote. Looks like another close one.

[cleanprophet]

Thanks for a cool breeze down memory lane, Big Sleep!

I remember most of these albums dropping but being in the UK, I wasn't aware that a fair few of these classics were dropped on the same day.

[TheBigSleep]

For sure man, there's more on the way too. Reminiscing while becoming more aware about the timeline of it all just makes things more interesting I think. At the time you might not have known what you were about to listen to, but hindsight being what it is, you can look back a decade or two later and have a better sense of how everything played out.

And ultimately that's what T.R.O.Y. is really all about: the nostalgia, knowledge and re/discovery of good songs. Over the last five weeks we've already had several interesting conversations, with people telling stories, making points about the quality of various albums, seeking out material they hadn't heard, going back for additional listens of things that needed to be revisited, or purchasing previously unheard music. That alone makes this series a win for me. I first thought of it a year or two ago and never did anything with it, 'til now. Makes me wish I started sooner.

And I'll try to occasionally draw some similarities between what's happening now and what was goin' on back then as we continue. Like today is Big L's birthday, meaning twenty years ago, in '92 was the debut of his first appearance on wax, the Yes You May Remix, which helped lead to him getting signed to Columbia by the end of that year.

[cleanprophet]

For sure man, there's more on the way too. Reminiscing while becoming more aware about the timeline of it all just makes things more interesting I think. At the time you might not have known what you were about to listen to, but hindsight being what it is, you can look back a decade or two later and have a better sense of how everything played out.

And ultimately that's what T.R.O.Y. is really all about: the nostalgia, knowledge and re/discovery of good songs. Over the last five weeks we've already had several interesting conversations, with people telling stories, making points about the quality of various albums, seeking out material they hadn't heard, going back for additional listens of things that needed to be revisited, or purchasing previously unheard music. That alone makes this series a win for me. I first thought of it a year or two ago and never did anything with it, 'til now. Makes me wish I started sooner.

And I'll try to occasionally draw some similarities between what's happening now and what was goin' on back then as we continue. Like today is Big L's birthday, meaning twenty years ago, in '92 was the debut of his first appearance on wax, the Yes You May Remix, which helped lead to him getting signed to Columbia by the end of that year.

These threads have encouraged me to go back to Scarface 'The Diary', I'll be giving it a listen at some point very soon to see how it plays in 2012.

Agree with everything you say, it's amazing to look back on an era where classics were dropped on a seemingly weekly basis. At the time I guess we took it for granted but to consider that Midnight Marauders,Enta Da Stage, Return Of The Boom Bap & 36 Chambers were all released over the course of a number of weeks is incredible!

[TheBigSleep]

The votes are back up into the forties for the Digable / O.C. / Scarface / Twista thread, so almost on par with the rest, which is about the best we can hope for and at least gives us a pretty good idea of what the consensus is there.

Here's a rough percentage breakdown after the first month:

Tribe / Wu ג€“ 40/60
Diamond / Red / Show ג€“ 36/30/34
KRS / Souls / Spice ג€“ 45/40/15
Digable / O.C. / Scarface ג€“ 10/60/30
L / ODB ג€“ 50/50

Wu has pretty much decidedly taken the win for the first one, Diamond still has a slight lead over Show & A's debut, KRS just now is edging out Souls but that could turn around, O.C. has beat out Scarface and L and ODB are still neck and neck.

If you want to help to change any of that and haven't voted, links are at the bottom of each week's post.

I was initially gonna skip June but since more and more people seem interested and I have enough match ups for the next little while at least we might as well power through. I tend to try to post 'em at or around midnight Monday nights / Tuesday mornings Eastern time, since Tuesday's the day albums drop.

[kimani]

Big L represents more skill in the standard senses, and it is an incredibly listenable albums with an absolutely stunning stream of songs midway through the album. However, none of you had heard anything like Return to the 36 Chambers when it dropped and you still haven't. From all aspects--Dirty's sing-songy/yelling/no adherence to the beat whatsoever style (I still haven't heard anything on a hip-hop album as unexpectedly awe-inspiring as ODB singing Somewhere Over The Rainbow) to the skits, even though I usually prefer pure music, his clinically crazy lyrics, some absolutely mind-bending production that at times leaves 36 Chambers in the distant, barely reminiscent dust.

For its differences, I choose Return to the 36 Chambers.

[vincentlopez]

Big L

[TheBigSleep]

Thanks for the input as always everyone. And I like how the ג€œlesserג€ albums, the ones that were never gonna get as many votes, still get respect and feedback. Hopefully next week's will be the most well rounded of the ones with four options so far.

[B. Ware tha Siniq]

The highs on Return vastly outweigh the highs on Lifestylez... Lifestylez definitely got a lot of play for me, but ultimately I go back to stuff from Return a lot more frequently and artistically it's just a more impressive album to me on so many levels. The blue print for Big L was already well defined, between Lord Finesse, Nas, and the influence of the Harlem hardcore scene at the time. There have been many who have picked up pieces of the mantle of ODB, but the inimitable nature of his greatness, and that being his greatest album, easily outweigh the impact of Big L both as an artist on the whole and on these two albums in particular.

[thebohdan252]

The highs on Return vastly outweigh the highs on Lifestylez... Lifestylez definitely got a lot of play for me, but ultimately I go back to stuff from Return a lot more frequently and artistically it's just a more impressive album to me on so many levels. The blue print for Big L was already well defined, between Lord Finesse, Nas, and the influence of the Harlem hardcore scene at the time. There have been many who have picked up pieces of the mantle of ODB, but the inimitable nature of his greatness, and that being his greatest album, easily outweigh the impact of Big L both as an artist on the whole and on these two albums in particular.

well said

[cleanprophet]

The highs on Return vastly outweigh the highs on Lifestylez...

Yeah, I think I'd agree with this having listened to a few tunes from both albums over the weekend.

ODB on form was something else, backed by RZA and the rest of the WU during their golden era, no competition!

[TheBigSleep]

Personally I rate albums more on consistency than high points. I appreciate the differences in thought though.

L basically put Harlem on the map with this, as there wasn't much else out there before that people were really checkin' for. Plus it showcased Uptown humor in a way that people wouldn't fully realize 'til at least couple years later with people like Lord Sear and Cam'Ron.

I listened to the Big L album a lot more.

Big L. But not a "not even close" thing at all...Danger Zone is maybe the most vivid darkest classics ever. It will never age for me.

ODB's high points were high! But the Big L album is a better overall listen, less lengthy tedious skits, etc.

This is pretty much where I stand with it.

[unclebengi]

Big L and it's not really close to me. Unflinchingly hardcore on a major label. What sounds like that album? I guess you could say the same for Ol' Dirty album, but rarely has "I don't give one fuck" combined with "skills" come together better than Lifestylez.

[shadowmaster]

Big L. But not a "not even close" thing at all. If Dirty's earlier Wu stuff and whatever else he was on before this wasn't enough, his appearance on Stretch n Bobbito with 12 O'Clock and Buddha Monk had me droolin for the album, pause.
<object width="420" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lTwBoFLIuY0?ve ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lTwBoFLIuY0?version=3&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>
Entire session is greatness, but @4:40 on>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Also thought we'd hear more from 12 O'clock & Buddha Monk after that night but they didn't go on to much afaik. I mean, after hearing their verses here I thought they were gonna drop a bangin album soon.
I was listening to a couple of NCS(Nappy Crumb Snatchers) youtubes from their EP earlier and I think one of them may be Buddha Monk or 12 Oclock, I dunno.

Verge, do you have a link for that Stretch appearance by ODB? I haven't really downloaded most of the shows in that thread, for some dumb reason.


For this poll, I had to vote ODB, even though the album kind of disappointed me at the time, it was inconsistent, but it was still like nothing I'd ever heard. He'd had his spots on the group tracks but then he was unleashed on a whole LP, it was kind of unique. I knew a lot of people who were pissed off at buying that LP at the time, but the high points do outweigh the low ones.

A few months back I was watching old interviews of his and the ones done around the release of his first solo show him when he was so full of energy and not yet destroyed and worn down by the numerous problems he had, it's sad to then think about what happened to him in the end. I'll always remember how he came across in videos and interviews, he was a one of a kind character and I don't think I'll ever see anyone like him again.

Big L was dope, but I had to vote for the ODB lp.

[clark bent]

i voted dirty cause he shares a birth date with me

[Verge]

I'll have to take a look for that shadowmaster. I'm surprised the full session isn't on one of those volumes of SnB freestyles as it is quite a memorable one.

[shadowmaster]

Thanks once again.

[TheBigSleep]

Still fairly close but now ODB has the slight lead and unless at least a few more people vote it'll likely stay that way.

The same thing happened with Souls and KRS. Souls were the early choice and even won the first few ties but then slowly the tortoise edges out the hare.

The close ones are more fun to keep track of (going by page views) and generally make for better conversation as well. I'm trying for more strong match ups in the future.

[Philaflava]

Ol Dirty Mindbender

[Jaz]

As much as I love Big L's debut album, ODB's debut just seems in a word magical...the production, the rhymes, and every track was just the pinnacle of raw shit...so that is my vote and years back I lent my CD to a crack whore who never returned it and was really pleased to get that dope wallet/ID card boxset earlier this year.

[TheBigSleep]

Hah, welcome back Jaz. Your match ups were part of the inspiration for this series.

And yeah, that boxset is definitely dope.

I posted this weeks ago and it's still essentially tied over sixty votes into it. Especially with stuff like this:

I voted Dirty 'cause he shares a birth date with me.

Which is fine if you like ODB's album more but it's really supposed to be about the music here, either your favorite album or the better LP (or both). Instead of voting on which character we like more (and it's easy to lose focus in the history and nostalgia) the focus should be on the tracks themselves, which I'm glad to see is what most people are doing.