Children of the Corn Timeline

[The Ivy League Nigga]

Yo! I'm trying to come up with a definitive timeline of all things/people related to Children of the Corn...

As a whole, I'm only interested in the time period between Lord Finese "discovering" Big L and Big L's death. And I'm especially interested in the time period between Mase/Cam's HS years and Mase's signing to Bad Boy.

Here's what I have after a little research:

1991-1993 Lifestylez ov da Poor & Dangerous recorded
1992 - Big L signed to Columbia
March 14, 1992 - Cam’ron and Mase famous high school basketball game
1992-1993 - Mase repeats his senior year of HS
1993 - Big L forms CoC
??? - Mase at SUNY Purchase
??? - Cam’ron at Navarro College in Texas
1994 - Stretch and Bobbito freestyle (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnYHhvcJ15E" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
March 28, 1995 - Lifestylez ov da Poor & Dangerous released
??? - Big L dropped from Columbia records
1996 - Mase signs with Bad Boy
1997 - Cam’ron comes back from college
1997 - Cam'ron signs to Untertainment
March 2, 1997 - Bloodshed dies in car crash
February 15, 1999 - Big L dies

Here are some timeline related questions I'm trying to answer:

-When exactly was the Children of the Corn stuff recorded?
-What was going on with McGruff and Bloodshed while Cam and Mase were in college?
-How long after his album came out was Big L dropped from the label?
-Any info on Digga during that period?
-When exactly did Mase and Cam leave college? And when exactly did they start taking music more seriously if they weren't always?

Appreciate any help!

[TheBigSleep]

Most of the recorded material is from '95 / '96, with some from '94 and a bit from early '97 maybe.

Prior to Children of the Corner, there was Caged Fury, which was Digga, Killa Kam, and his cousin Blood. Digga still has these demos. L brought in Herb McGruff and Murda Mase in '93 and renamed the group.

L was dropped from Columbia sometime during the late summer / early fall of '96, when the C.o.C. stuff was really starting to take off and when D.I.T.C. was starting to get ready to put out singles as a group.

Not sure what you wanna know about Digga, but I can ask him a question or two if you'd like.

Mase started recording demos in '93, Cam started spitting publicly at the end of '93, top of '94. L had been really rhyming since '89 or '90. They were ball players 'til L got signed to a major and all of a sudden this rap thing became possible for kids in the NFL crew.

[The Ivy League Nigga]

Thanks man! A few follow up questions:

-Any info on the college years would be helpful. Cam and Mase were away at school starting in 93-94 right? And Mase was still at Purchase when he was signed in 96? Is it possible Mase did three full years of college? How much Did Cam do? And how were they recording CoC stuff with both of them away?
-When was Cam in Ohio?
-Would you say a lot of the CoC stuff was recorded after Lifestylez dropped?
-In terms of Digga, I'm very interested in what was consuming his time from 90-95. We know Cam/Mase were in HS, into basketball, and later college? What about Digga? Bloodshed? McGruff?

[TheBigSleep]

They weren't really recording much if anything then I don't think. Lifestylez was recorded between '92 and '95, I don't think anything from '91 made the cut. Nearly everything recorded for C.o.C. is from after Lifestylez was finished, except the first couple freestyles. The only two songs from Lifestylez recorded in early '95 were MVP and Street Struck, the rest were from '93 and '94 mostly, although the lyrics go back to '90. Don't know too much else about college years.

May 30th, 1974 – "Little L" or "'mont 'mont" Lamont Coleman was born.
February 4th, 1976 - Cameron Giles, later to be known as Killa Kam or Cam'Ron was born.
May 5th, 1976 - Derek Michael Armstead, later Bloodshed Debiasi was born, Cam gets a cousin.
August 27th, 1977 – Mason Durell Betha, later to be Murda Mase and then Ma$e, was born.
Sometime in 1991 – Children of the Corn was formed.
Late 1992 – Signed to Columbia in late '92, same day as NaS, but actually before him because Faith Newman liked him on Showbiz & A.G.'s Represent, from Runaway Slave, September 22nd, 1992.
October 28th, 1993 – Big L & Herb McGruff Stretch & Bobbito Freestyle
December 16th 1993 – Big L, Killa Kam, Murda Mase, Buddah Bless, Bloodshed, Herb McGruff, Terra, & Big Twan Stretch & Bobbito Freestyle
April 18th, 1996 – Big L, Bloodshed, Murda Mase, Killa Kam, & Beef Tha Thief of B.B.O. Stretch & Bobbito Freestyle
Summer 1996 – American Dream / Harlem USA single released.
December 1996 – DJ Premier releases American Dream on Crooklyn Cuts Volume III Tape B.
Sometime in 1997 – L and Gruff record a freestyle for DJ Clue.
Sometime in 1998 – L records the Universal NY Freestyle with McGruff, I-Born, & C.L. Smooth.
June 16th, 1998 – McGruff's debut, Destined to Be drops, with The Spot interlude featuring L, and Danger Zone with L & Ma$e, L and Cam appear in the This is How We Do video as well.
June 17th, 1998 – Uptown at The Latin Quarter featuring Cam'Ron, Big L, & Herb McGruff.
September 5th, 1998 – Big L, Herb McGruff, The Lost Boyz & Noreaga show at The Beacon Theatre.
February 8th, 1999 – Started drawing up plans and filling out paperwork to form a group called Wolfpack with Herb McGruff, C-Town and Jay-Z, to be signed to Rocafella Records.
February 18th, 1999 – Three days after Lamont Coleman was killed would have been the date of the Flamboyant Entertainment party that announced that Herb McGruff, C-Town and Big L had been signed to Roc-A-Fella Records (who would’ve then distribute the music on L’s label, Flamboyant) and were forming a super group with Jay-Z called The Wolfpack, named by Big L. It was a deal which took nearly six months to work out due to L wanting his friends/protégés to get on and the label wanting just L. Lamont won out, the signed and finished paperwork was found in his room by his mother Gilda and brother Donald.
July 30th, 2000 – Filming of Holdin’ It Down, with appearances from Cam’Ron, Fat Joe, Lord Finesse and Ma$e.
June 2003 – Digga first releases twenty one (of about thirty five) tracks from Children of the Corn, in a Collector's Edition on Six Figga Entertainment.
November 14th, 2003 – Alternate C.o.C. release date.
March 2008 – Herb McGruff – The Demo EP released, containing the demo version of 8 Iz Enuff.

BigLOnline: Before he formed Children of the Corn, what were you guys getting into?

McGruff: We used to rap in the park, but we really wasn’t taking it serious. We just was doing it to do it, because that was the thing to do back then I guess. It was me, L, Cam Ma$e and Black Rob used to come through sometimes, and we were rhyming in the park and stuff. But we ain’t never think that it was going to get like how it got. And me and L came up under Lovebug Starski, he used to be around the way and people like that, that influenced us. It was already around us, the music, but we just never took it serious until L got discovered by Lord Finesse. And ever since then, we started taking it serious, we started doing mixtapes, so on and so on. But me and L we childhood friends, before the rap, before everything.

BigLOnline: How tight was C.o.C. as a crew?

McGruff: We was real tight, but me and L was the tightest cause we was from the same block.

BigLOnline: Were you still involved in the streets when the C.o.C. thing was happening?

McGruff: Oh yeah, I was and then I changed my life. Like I said I was going on promotional tours with L, seeing other places, learning that the life was bigger than the block. It was a big world out there, we could do something positive, give people from the block jobs that don’t got jobs. We just was trying to do something positive cause the environment that we come from, it’s really hard to come out of that. So you know at that time I was, but that was the past. You had to do what you had to do.

BigLOnline: That was the Wolfpack, with you, L, C-Town and Jay Z?

McGruff: Yeah, we had a lot of big plans going on, but that tragedy happened. That put a monkey wrench in everything.

BigLOnline: Is it true that Dame was hesitating to sign the rest of you guys, and Big L was trying to get the rest of the group signed?

McGruff: Nah he wasn’t hesitating, Dame and L was always cool, me and Dame was always cool. He wanted to sign both of us, he said thought it’d be in our best interest [to start as a group] and then eventually we could do whatever. ‘Cause we was the two hardest names coming out of Harlem that’s reppin. So he was going to sign us we were gonna do the group thing but that never occurred due to the fact, the tragedy.

BigLOnline: What was going on with C.o.C. after Cam and Ma$e went to play ball and Bloodshed died, was the unity falling apart?

McGruff: I mean we always was cool we just grew up we was young in the game you gotta realize we were young, 17, 18 we didn’t really know the game like that we were just excited to be a part of it. So as you get older the business part of the game come in you get older you start doing grown man stuff you gotta pay bills, all type of stuff so I guess people start thinking different but you know I still got love for all of them.

BigLOnline: Do you think not enough people know about C.o.C. and what you guys did for Harlem?

McGruff: Everybody know who C.o.C. is, the real hip hop fans know what time it is. I guess some of the young kids that are coming out now, they on the “Superman” and all that, they don’t really know what’s going on. But people from that era, they know who C.o.C. is, they know Gruff, Ma$e, Cam, Big L. I’m just proud to be a part of that.

BigLOnline: In the very early '90s you were in a group called Caged Fury, what happened with that? Did you ever release any material?

Digga: Actually, the members of Caged Fury were Me, Cam and Bloodshed. No, I haven't released any of that material, but I do have it. As soon I can get the right label situation, I'll release it for the fans.

BigLOnline: Most Big L fans probably know you from Children of the Corn days, could you tell us how Children of the Corn came together as a group?

Digga: Big L created the whole C.o.C. concept. Basically, it was a collective of MCs that had a relationship with Big L. While Big L was working on his debut album, Cam, Mase, Bloodshed and others were doing performances, radio shows, etc. As the buzz and popularity grew, Mase and McGruff got record deals. Eventually me, Cam and Bloodshed got a deal on Freeze / Priority records and using the name C.o.C.

BigLOnline: Do you own the material by "Children of the Corn"?

Digga: Yes.

BigLOnline: Are their any plans of a second Children of the Corn CD, if there is even enough material left, that you know of?

Digga: No. That's it.

BigLOnline: When you were in the studio recording songs for Children of the Corn, how did it go down? Were all of you in the studio working on the tracks? What were those sessions like?

Digga: My man Ray Rock at Headquarters Studio recorded a lot of the songs. We were very serious because we had to pay by the hour for the studio (laughs). Most of the time I would make the track in the studio and Cam and Blood would come up with concepts. After that, Mase or Big L would hear the joints and jump on it.

BigLOnline: What's your personal favorite C.o.C. track?

Digga: The Corn. The feeling of that song is incredible.

BigLOnline: Looking back at it now, do you think of Children of the Corn as a close family, or just a bunch of people uniting to break through eventually?

Digga: Well, I think back then we had a real love for it. We all wanted record deals to display our talent. Me, Cam and Blood were the closest because we worked together as a group. I don't think we were as close as Wu-Tang, but I think we all knew what we had when we got together as a unit. But to answer the question straight, no we're not a close family.

BigLOnline: Now, there have been a lot of discussions about who the true members of Children of the Corn were. Were you considered a member or were you just paid for the beats (if paid at all), and was McGruff a real member?

Digga: There was not secret about me being a member. I was signed as a member to Freeze / Priority records. A lot of people don't know that Me, Cam'Ron and Bloodshed were professionally known as C.o.C. as a group. The song "American Dream" was released as our single through Freeze. Everyone that appeared on that song was considered to be a member of C.o.C. You can compare it to G-Unit. Everyone rolling with 50 Cent was considered to be a G-Unit member. But the members who were on the G-Unit album were 50, Lloyd, Buck, and Yayo.

BigLOnline: Now you're from Harlem, did you and Big L grow up together? Or did you meet along the way, both making music?

Digga: No. We didn't grow up together as friends. He lived six blocks from me though. He was the first one around the neighborhood who was signed to a major label.

BigLOnline: Were you and L still around each other at the time of his death, or did the relationship water down throughout the years?

Digga: We were about to start working on some stuff. I gave him some tracks before he got killed. Around that time, I was working on Cam's album S.D.E., L and me were actually just starting to develop a relationship outside of everyone else musically. Cam was running around doing him, but I always wanted to continue doing the C.o.C. stuff. Everyone was out for themselves at that point though. I do feel like a lot people didn't reach back out to L after he got dropped from Columbia.

BigLOnline: How did you experience the breaking up of Children of the Corn? Did it happen suddenly, or did you see it coming? What do you think were the reasons?

Digga: I wouldn't call it a breakup because we were never together long enough. Once we got signed, everyone clicked up with the people they were closest to. We were all still cool with each other, but we were trying to take advantage of our own opportunity.

BigLOnline: What's your favorite moment in your career?

Digga: I think the first time we heard American Dream on the radio. We actually won five nights straight on a segment called "Battle of the Beats" on 98.7 in New York.

BigLOnline: Anything else you'd like to say?

Digga: Big L, the best from Harlem!

I know we did a photo-shoot for Children of the Corn. A professional shoot. The pics were mostly of me, Cam and Blood. A few with L and Gruff. I'm still looking; I think Cam stole them from me a few years ago. Those pics would be dope.

I think A Star is Born was first, then we did Harlem U.S.A. and American Dream. All of the releases were singles on vinyl through Freeze / Priority. I'm pretty sure American Dream was the first single because Columbia and Bad Boy weren't trying to clear L and Mase.

BigLOnline: You guys have got a lot of affiliates in common. So how did you and Big L get to know each other, how did y’all meet?

Mic Geronimo: Me and L were cool as hell. I don't remember the first time we met, but we both were running with a crew called Children of the Corn. How I got with them is, my family was Uptown as well as in Queens, so I knew Loon, Ma$e, Infa Red, L, McGruff already.

Few other tidbits: Cam told me that L was supposed to be / would've been on his second album. N.I.B. / Vacant Lot battled Killa Kam, Murda Mase, and Bloodshed one time. It was mostly Meeno versus Mase I guess. I also did an interview with Blood's half brother, who sent me photos of his mural being made, if you're interested in that. And I can't find the exact date, but I know L did a show with McGruff, Ice Cube, Tha Alkaholiks, The Notorious B.I.G., Craig Mack, & DJ Clark Kent sometime in late '93. And Twan once told me something about how deep the clique was, said there was a white boy rollin' with them and all kinds of associates and affiliates, Wu style. I've been trying to find a more comprehensive list of names.

[itzmurda]

i wish there was a definitive murda mase collection/mixtape

-drug wars (is this really 93?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0-hGd65-xg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-get rude (says 97, but sounds earlier to me, even uses lines from niggaz done started something which leaked to mixtapes in 96) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc-SVauEawk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-stretch & bobbito freestyles 1 & 2
-coc stuff: fare one 2/the corn/american dream/doin it/ill flow
-reppin uptown (original version) w/lox & mcgruff
-uptown connection w/big l & mcgruff
-niggaz done started something w/ dmx & lox

is all i can think of

anyone know of anything that is murda mase but not listed (basically pre-bad boy)?

[Bigg Boss Luciano]

i wish there was a definitive murda mase collection/mixtape

-drug wars (is this really 93?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0-hGd65-xg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-get rude (says 97, but sounds earlier to me, even uses lines from niggaz done started something which leaked to mixtapes in 96) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc-SVauEawk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-stretch & bobbito freestyles 1 & 2
-coc stuff: fare one 2/the corn/american dream/doin it/ill flow
-reppin uptown (original version) w/lox & mcgruff
-uptown connection w/big l & mcgruff
-niggaz done started something w/ dmx & lox

is all i can think of

anyone know of anything that is murda mase but not listed (basically pre-bad boy)?

Two more joints I know of: Someone Like You (from: DJ Ron G's Ghetto D - 1995?) & Bow Down with McGruff, Loon, Mobstyle & Meeno (sounds like it's from '95 or '96).

[Stieflkater]

I think D Dot did or heard some grimey shit by Mase. A demo tape. Before he went with the Bad Boy tradition.

[The Ivy League Nigga]

Can anybody help me answer these question:

-Mase and Cam's HS graduation dates?
-The approximate start and end dates of Mase and Cam's college careers?
-When was "8 iz Enuff" recorded and released?
-Was Mase still at SUNY when he was signed with Bad Boy?
-How exactly did Mase get signed? I've heard varying reports, something about a producer named "Country" introducing Mase to Puff, something about Mase going to a music conference in Atlanta with hopes of meeting Jermaine Dupri?

[The Ivy League Nigga]

August 27th, 1978 – Mason Durell Betha, later to be Murda Mase and then Ma$e, was born.

I think you mean 1977. Mase couldn't have been 13 playing in a varsity HS B-ball game in 1992.

[TheBigSleep]

Yeah, typo, fixed that. 8 Iz Enuff was recorded in mid '94, put out on the promotional release of Lifestylez by October of '94 if I remember correctly.

[itzmurda]

i wish there was a definitive murda mase collection/mixtape

-drug wars (is this really 93?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0-hGd65-xg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-get rude (says 97, but sounds earlier to me, even uses lines from niggaz done started something which leaked to mixtapes in 96) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc-SVauEawk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-stretch & bobbito freestyles 1 & 2
-coc stuff: fare one 2/the corn/american dream/doin it/ill flow
-reppin uptown (original version) w/lox & mcgruff
-uptown connection w/big l & mcgruff
-niggaz done started something w/ dmx & lox

is all i can think of

anyone know of anything that is murda mase but not listed (basically pre-bad boy)?

Two more joints I know of: Someone Like You (from: DJ Ron G's Ghetto D - 1995?) & Bow Down with McGruff, Loon, Mobstyle & Meeno (sounds like it's from '95 or '96).

i actually thought about "someone like you/forget you never", but didn't include it, because it leaked in 97/98, which made me think thats when it was recorded...but yeah thats def. murda mase for sure. thanks. the tape is from either 97 or early 98

about "bow down"...is mase on that? unknut says it's from 1998...i don't hear mase though: http://www.unkut.com/2014/03/mcgruff-fe ... -bow-down/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EDIT: actually, isnt that him in bbo's pose a threat?

[Bigg Boss Luciano]

i wish there was a definitive murda mase collection/mixtape

-drug wars (is this really 93?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0-hGd65-xg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-get rude (says 97, but sounds earlier to me, even uses lines from niggaz done started something which leaked to mixtapes in 96) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc-SVauEawk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-stretch & bobbito freestyles 1 & 2
-coc stuff: fare one 2/the corn/american dream/doin it/ill flow
-reppin uptown (original version) w/lox & mcgruff
-uptown connection w/big l & mcgruff
-niggaz done started something w/ dmx & lox

is all i can think of

anyone know of anything that is murda mase but not listed (basically pre-bad boy)?

Two more joints I know of: Someone Like You (from: DJ Ron G's Ghetto D - 1995?) & Bow Down with McGruff, Loon, Mobstyle & Meeno (sounds like it's from '95 or '96).

i actually thought about "someone like you/forget you never", but didn't include it, because it leaked in 97/98, which made me think thats when it was recorded...but yeah thats def. murda mase for sure. thanks. the tape is from either 97 or early 98

about "bow down"...is mase on that? unknut says it's from 1998...i don't hear mase though: http://www.unkut.com/2014/03/mcgruff-fe ... -bow-down/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EDIT: actually, isnt that him in bbo's pose a threat?

Shit, I DL-ed Bow Dow a couple years ago and they put Mase in the tags so I kept it... also the second dude (after McGruff) kinda sound like Mase (now that I heard it again, I don't think so), but it's maybe one of the dudes from Mobstyle or Meeno.

About Pose A Threat, yeah I think that's Mase and also on B.B.O.'s Dayz Lik This one dude sounds like him.

[TheBigSleep]

Murda Mase's Get Rude is from '93, as is Drug Wars, far as I've ever heard.

That might be his brother Blinky Blink or Beef Tha Thief that sounds like him, depending on who you're talking about exactly. B.B.O. was Napizm, Blinky Blink, Beef Tha Thief, & White Bread, with Futuristic mainly just on the production side.

I think Pose a Threat (as well as B.B.O.'s Get Rude and Dayz Lik This) is just that core group, (with Chuck Black as their manager). L shouts them out on Lifestylez, Mase started with them, his brother Blink was in the group, they shout each other out early on, but he had signed to Bad Boy before anything they recorded got released.

Only time Mase and B.B.O. did anything together that I know of, is on a still unreleased demo version of Get Rude:

“No Blink did not spark up B.B.O. and we all like brothers, ya heard. But on the first version of Get Rude, we didn't even put Blink on there. It was Future, Nap, Beef, White Bread, and Ma$e Murder. How I know, 'cause I was there, and that's my beat. I made that in St. Nick Projects, Harlem New York.” ~ Futuristic



Don't think that Pose a Threat video ever dropped and neither did their debut album, Across 110th Street, which had ads in The Source after their single / EP, sometime around '98.

[itzmurda]

Murda Mase's Get Rude is from '93, as is Drug Wars, far as I've ever heard.

That might be his brother Blinky Blink or Beef Tha Thief that sounds like him, depending on who you're talking about exactly. B.B.O. was Napizm, Blinky Blink, Beef Tha Thief, & White Bread, with Futuristic mainly just on the production side.

I think Pose a Threat (as well as B.B.O.'s Get Rude and Dayz Lik This) is just that core group, (with Chuck Black as their manager). L shouts them out on Lifestylez, Mase started with them, his brother Blink was in the group, they shout each other out early on, but he had signed to Bad Boy before anything they recorded got released.

Only time Mase and B.B.O. did anything together that I know of, is on a still unreleased demo version of Get Rude:

“No Blink did not spark up B.B.O. and we all like brothers, ya heard. But on the first version of Get Rude, we didn't even put Blink on there. It was Future, Nap, Beef, White Bread, and Ma$e Murder. How I know, 'cause I was there, and that's my beat. I made that in St. Nick Projects, Harlem New York.” ~ Futuristic



Don't think that Pose a Threat video ever dropped and neither did their debut album, Across 110th Street, which had ads in The Source after their single / EP, sometime around '98.

thanks for the info

im on my phone so i cant check but the guy im talking anout from pose a threat raps "i realized as an urban kid we need the herb to live"...i swear thats a mase lyric but i could be mistaken...ill recheck but i coulda sworn mase spit that on another murda mase joint

[TheBigSleep]

Yeah, that's Beef Tha Thief, he's featured on the '96 Stretch & Bob freestyle.

[claaa7]

mad jewels in this thread, huge props to TheBigSleep - Big L's #1 fan..
this thread made me go back and listen to the Digga release of that Chilldren of the Corn mixtape and i think it was the first time i actually listened to it in full and i was blown away. Bloodshed was a monster, and both Killa Cam and Murder Mase really did their thing. would love to hear more Big L and Herb McGruff but i can't front, this tape was amazing.

[badboy4life]

Stieflkater - "I think D Dot did or heard some grimey shit by Mase. A demo tape. Before he went with the Bad Boy tradition."

Ron G did the Mase demo tape

TheBigSleep - "Only time Mase and B.B.O. did anything together that I know of, is on a still unreleased demo version of Get Rude:"

Beef & Future appear on the full version of Drug Wars with Mase.

@Bigg Boss Luciano & @itzmurda

Mase & Meeno aren't on Bow Down

[TheBigSleep]

Yeah, I meant all of B.B.O., obviously Beef was on the '96 Stretch and Bob freestyle with Children of the Corn as well.