LL's "14 Shots the Dome" - Soo underrated!

[claaa7]

Since the first time I Heard LL Cool J's 1993 follow-up to "Mama Said" i was knocked out and to me it has stood the test of time.. i was very suprised when i came across critics and fans who felt that "14 Shots to the Dome" was a straight up weak album. To me it's an LP that, although not at all perfect, works very well as a front-to-back listen and LL was in high spirit throughout with a ruff delivery and agressive flow that matched the beats perfectly. Right from jump when "How I'm Comin'" kicks in it Always gets my adrenaline pumping; Marley and LL's Chemistry is on full display and to me that song Always came off as a kinda semi-sequel to "Mama Said Knock You Out". "Buck 'Em Down" is Another intense headnodder, with a Beautiful sax loop and LL rhyming to the bass like the true pro he was back then.

While many might say that LL was trying to hard to emulate each and every trend popular in the Culture at the moment (he got the West Coast joints, the rugged hardcore NY tracks, the conscious record, the posse cut with LOTUG, etc.) i Think it's more of a testament of his skills in that he's able to take all of those trends, flip it his way and do it better than 99% of emcees Before him. then again, his 1985 debut inspired as well as every artist he might have borrowed from here so it's basically coming full circle with LL taking inspiration from cats like Naughty By Nature and Lords Of The Underground. Especially listening to the lyrics, flow and delivery you can tell that this ain't no record just thrown out there to make a Quick buck -- LL is on a mission here and his flow is Sharp as hell, albeit a bit too Close to Treach at times but again it doesn't really bother me.

don't get me wrong, there's things that could and should have been changed Before release. The Easy Mo Bee remix of "Pink Cookies..." (the video version) is a WHOLE LOT BETTER [never cared for Marley's album version] and would have been Beautiful on the album replacing it. Also while Marley Marl and Bobcat both does a tremendous job whenever they appear with LL here, I felt QDIII's productions were hit-or-miss - a few of them works well (the aforementioned "Buckin' Em Down" is the best example of a Winner) but often they are quite flat and drags the vibe down a bit. Dr. Butcher revealed in an interview with Unkut that he and Chris Forté did an original sample-based verson of "Soul Survivor" that was a lot rawer but LL and the label got Cold feet and let QD3 remix it. Man, how I want to hear that version. K-Def who worked very Close with Marey at the time also did some very ill but uncredited work on the album - producing (or at least-co-producing) the mindblowing "Funkadelic Relic" - insant Classic if you ask me! 'Def also did the equally slamming "Year Of The Hip-Hop" which mysteriously was deleted from the album... it definitely has the same vibe though.




so what's your take on "14 Shots..." - underrated, wack or great?

[claaa7]

also while we're on the topic, does anybody happen to have the original Dr. Butcher version of "Soul Survivor", apparantly it was floating around qite a bit on mixtapes and such but never officially released. the one tape that I know include it is "Summer Two" by DJ Doo Wop, released in 1993... if anyone have this or any other source, please, pleae hook me up!

[Mark 563]

I'm a big fan of this album. I know it's not the popular choice, but for me it's a guilty pleasure, and I rate it as my go-to LL album each and every time.

[Philaflava]

love love love this album. its because of the magical era and year this came out that i probably have such a connection to it.

[claaa7]

glad to hear i'm not the only one.. to me it feels as a very natural follow-up to "Mama Said Knock You Out" (my favorite LL album, closely followed by "Radio").

also how do y'all feel about "Mr. Smith"? to me that's a brilliant album as well, and LL's last truly great LP. it's softer and much of it is aimed at the ladies but unlike with "Phenomenon" it's not at all cheesy imo.. tracks like "Hey Lover" and "Doin' it" are Classic joints and perfect tracks to listen with your girl too... and then there's songs like "Hip Hop", "No Airplay", "I Shot Ya", to name a few.

[Mark 563]

I haven't listened to "Mr Smith" for at least 15 years, but enjoyed it when it dropped, and still play the "I Shot Ya" 12" from time to time. Should probably give the album another spin.

As for "Phenomenon" - the title track was so horrific,I never bothered checking the LP.

[claaa7]

^ you're not missing much when it comes to "Phenomenon", it's a horrible album.. i Think i only listened to it once or twice, and the only song i can remember liking is "4,3,2,1" which is a Classic. there's probably one more good song on there but that album was 100 times worse than "Nastradamus"

[vancitysfinest]

This is a good album, bought the tape as I wasn't willing to fork over CD money for LL at the time. I think it fit in nicely with the other albums that dropped that Spring/Summer. My favorite LL album for sure. Played this and Blue Funk quite a bit to balance out my Onyx obsession. Funkadelic Relic still gets play.

[unheard78]

14 was good. It felt a little long at times, but it was definitely good. Totally underappreciated.

[bbatson1]

claaa7 do you have the Soul Survivor from the Doo Wop tape? I'd like to hear it if you could up it. Thanks.

[fatboybrandon]

I remember the summer of '93 when I listened to the album among many of the other classics that were being released that year. To me it was harder to appreciate the album then due to the power of classics circulating at the time but as the years have passed and I look back on 14 I've gained more appreciation for it. Songs that always stood out to me were Buckin Em Down, Soul Survivor, Funkadelic Relic, Back Seat, Stand By Your Man.

[Debonair_P]

I think I probably would have liked it more with more Marley/K-Def and less QDIII. It does have some joints though. 'Crossroads' is a diabolical message track.

I'm a bigger fan of Mr Smith - if you take the best songs from that and combine it with the best songs from that 'Double L Cools Down' bootleg (recorded at the same time) it makes for a very solid album.

I haven't listened to Phenomenon in a while, but there was a good song with the Lost Boyz on there and also a crossover song which samples Tom Tom Club that was kind of a guilty pleasure.

[claaa7]

claaa7 do you have the Soul Survivor from the Doo Wop tape? I'd like to hear it if you could up it. Thanks.

sorry, i don't, i have actually never Heard it either but been wanting to do so for a long time. if you look at the production credits on the sleeve Dr. Butcher atually is a co-producer on that, but according to him it's only bc the original that he did. check his quote from Robbie's incredible 3 part interview @ Unkut ( )... he also reveals that HE did all the scratches on the Kool G Rap & Polo albums, except for "Road to the Riches" were Marley did the Cuts. that's fucking crazy!!

But you never worked with LL after he got signed?

I produced for him! I produced a song called ‘The Soul Survivor’ for him on the 14 Shots To The Dome album. I produced it with C4. Me and C4 – the guy who did ‘Put It In Your Mouth’ – were production partners. I was going to C4′s house one day to work on some music, and LL was shooting his first video from that album on Farmer’s Boulevard, and C4 lived on Farmers Boulevard at the time. And I got off the bus and saw him and I was like ‘Yo! What’s up!’ We hadn’t seen each other in a while. We was always real cool, whenever he had time he would always come see me, but he had been so busy we hadn’t seen each other in a while. So he’s asking ‘Where you going?’ and I’m like ‘To my production partner’s house right down the street’. He’s like ‘Alright, I’mma stop by as soon as I finish the video’. So when I went to my man’s house I didn’t tell him, because I didn’t know if LL was really gonna come. He was so busy, I didn’t know if he was really gonna come by. So we down there working on music and the doorbell rings. He’s like ‘Who’s that?’ and I’m like ‘It’s probably LL, I saw him a few minutes ago and he said he was gonna come by’, and he didn’t believe me! When he opened the door, LL was standing there, like, ‘Yo, is Drew here?’ and his mouth just fell open! L came down and the track we were working on was actually the ‘Soul Survivor’ track, like he walked in the door and heard it. And the thing about it, when we originally did the track, we sampled JDL from the Cold Crush Brothers saying ‘The L baby, baby, the L baby, baby!’

That was the first song I ever produced, actually. L was working with QD3 and all these other guys, and what happened was – we did the song, as soon as he heard the track he just sat down, got a pen and pad and wrote the song. He just wrote the song right on the spot. He was like, ‘Yo, we’re goin’ to the studio tomorrow, gimme your information.’ I was like, ‘What information?’ He was like, ‘I need your attorney’ and I was like, ‘I don’t have no attorney, man!’ So I had to go get attorney’s and set-up publishing companies and we were in the studio the next day, recording and stuff. It happened that fat. But after we did it, the version that we did had a grimy, street feel to it, and the rest of his album was all clean, with instruments and all of this stuff, and the track kinda stood out. He was nervous about that, so he went in and let QD3 remix the song. He was like, ‘Because you’re my friend, I told Q I still want your name on it’, so we all ended-up splitting the production credits, but the version you hear is a remix. It was so funny because not three or four months afterwards, Wu-Tang Clan hit the scene, and the track that we heard sounded very much like a RZA track. It was strange because the track got leaked – everybody that heard it loved that track, ‘cos it had a street feel to it – they started leaking the song out,and you would walk down Jamaica Avenue and frequently hear people riding by, playing our version of that song. I was like ‘Maan, you shoulda left that version of the song on the album. You woulda got a lot more street play.’ But I understand what he was thinking. He’s coming off these multi-platinum albums and stuff, and he was just a little nervous because everything else is all pristine and played with instruments, then you’ve got this other stuff that’s filtered and gutter-sounding. I was never that crazy about QD3′s version though, but it’s cool.

the thing is that a Discogs search shows that the only registered mixtape carrying "Soul Survivor" in 1993 is one by DJ Doo Wop called "Summer Two" (http://www.discogs.com/Doo-Wop-Spring-T ... se/3276374" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) - so since Butcher said it was getting play everywhere i'm thinking that is the OG mix on there. and what's most frustrating is that i actually find a stream for that on the net - but there's a bug with Side A (where the song of course is), check it -

http://mixconnect.com/listen/Dj+Doo+Wop ... SC-mid1814" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[claaa7]

I think I probably would have liked it more with more Marley/K-Def and less QDIII. It does have some joints though. 'Crossroads' is a diabolical message track.

I'm a bigger fan of Mr Smith - if you take the best songs from that and combine it with the best songs from that 'Double L Cools Down' bootleg (recorded at the same time) it makes for a very solid album.

I haven't listened to Phenomenon in a while, but there was a good song with the Lost Boyz on there and also a crossover song which samples Tom Tom Club that was kind of a guilty pleasure.

it would be really interesting to know how involved K-Def was in the Creation of "14 Shots...", i know i read somewhere that he did the basics of "Funkadelic Relic" and then there of course was "Year of the Hip Hop" which really should have been kept in favor of one of the QDIII joints. i completely agree with you that the QDIII tracks are the weakest ones on the LP... however Bobcat i Think did a great job as Always, and as you say "Crossroads" is just unbelivable - he brought in a whole symphony Orchestra over that one - which was his original vision for the album i read actually but in the end it was only used on that song.

Styles: You weren't on 14 Shots To The Dome, were you?
Bobcat: Now, I hate talking about that one and I'mma tell you why (laughs). One of the greatest records that me and LL have ever done is called "Crossroads" and its on that album. I used a full harmonic orchestra on that record in New York. We used 105 tracks on this song. This song is the most complex and unbelievable masterpiece ever created. Go back and listen to that. I personally know that it would have taken LL's career to the next level, because you know you can only stay at a street level or mainstream level for so long and then its over with, so you've got to go somewhere else and that song I believe would have taken him to that next level.

Styles: Unfortunately it had to be with "Pink Cookies In Plastic Bag Getting Crushed By Buildings" (laughs)…
Bobcat: Yeah! Marley Marl talked him into doing "this is how I'm coming" and trying to do street. Treach was the hot thing at the time, so LL was trying to compete with Treach and you know what I do as a Producer is I try to keep artists being who they are. You know, trying to get them to staying away from paying attention to what the other people are doing that's hot.Because everybody spots a knockoff especially in Hip Hop immediately!

so not so positive about "14 Shots..." but i feel Bobcat is one of the most underrated producer ever, and his work with LL is some of the best of his career, plus all the stuff with Pac, Ice Cube, etc. this interview breaks down all that, it's long but extremely well Worth it -

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/rap-hip- ... album.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bbatson1]

hey, claaa7. I just went through my stuff and i do have that Doo Wop tape (god knows what i have anymoe. lol). It's the normal version. :(

[claaa7]

Bbatson - thanks for that info although it was bad news hahah...
damn, that was my last hope of ever hearing that was on that Doo Wop tape... maybe someone here know Dr. Butcher ot C4 and can ask about it

[claaa7]

this thread is amazing, i really didn't know real hip-hop heads actually are big fans of "14 SHots to the Dome"... it's understandable though, it got rough ass beats, LL sounds fierce, it got concept tracks in droves, some straight knock you out shit,, disses to sucker emcees, very few guests and the chemistry between Marley and LL continued here.. to me it's an obvious extension of my favorite LL album "Mama Said Knock You Out".

anyway, i found two more tracks that at least I never heard before which definitely sounds like they are from the same sessions.. i can understand why they didn't want to include the Fuck Def Jam stuff but the other Marley Marl (or ?K-Def? produced song would've sound fantastic. you can hear on especially the latter track that's 100% the style LL used on "14 Shots".

LL Cool J - "UNTITLED" [prod. Marley Marl]
[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NsF-ZKTjAM]LL Cool J - "FUCK THIS SHIT"

[Stieflkater]

Here is the first joint from 1993. Of SNB show...source mp3 not yt blah etc...

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https://www.sendspace.com/file/zipy20

[Debonair_P]

Original Dr Butcher mix of Soul Survivor courtesy of Unkut:

https://soundcloud.com/unkut_dot_com_4/ll-cool-j-soul-surviour-original-version

[Stieflkater]

YEAH peace to Dr. Butcher, C4 and Robbie.

SC RIP 128 kbps

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https://www.sendspace.com/file/8i5kcv