DJ Shadow - endtroducing.

[Career Over Like Mike(NJJ)]

This guy can spin a mean set of funk
but what do people see in him and "endtroducing" in particular?

I always thought this guy was a cornball reactionary backpacker ever since that "why hip hop sucks in '95" track came out
indeed, 1995.. what an abysmal year for rap music
forget albums like "the infamous", "only built 4 cuban linx" and "dah shinin'"
plus singles like "who shot ya?", "last dayz"and "broken language"
people should resurrect the instrumental cut & scratch track format that the likes of Grandmaster Flash, Double D & Steinski and Coldcut already did to perfection in the 80's, huh?
or maybe form groups that are dull versions of Coldcrush and Tribe instead, right?
that's Jurrassic 5 and Latryx/Blackalicious, respectively, for the slow.

Back to the subject at hand, i remember this album getting ridiculously praised to high heaven when it dropped
usually by the more alternative rags, mind
i'll admit the first track was pretty sick
but the rest of the album was coffee-table hip hop
a meandering and plodding mess that went nowhere in particular.

I'd consider this a hip hop album for people that don't like hip hop
it's the token hip hop album fans of house and techno own, isn't it?
feel free to enlighten me to it's charms
but, please, refrain from such terms as it being a "sweeping sampledelica for your sensations" and the like
thanks.

[Galvatron78]

well I'll say as far as diggin' nobody (except maybe Z-trip and jazzy Jay for sho' is fuckin' with him) ....people were ready to fistfight with again when I told them this shit wasn't a classic and the only song I liked was "Changeling" because it made me sleepy and helped me rest. I just couldn't get into the album at all it was a tad bit too "Down Tempo" for me.

[clark bent]

pretty much everything you said is on point....i cant stand the album and for the most part the people who like it

[Y@k Bollocks]

well I'll say as far as diggin' nobody (except maybe Z-trip and jazzy Jay for sho' is fuckin' with him)...

Word, and he's a dope DJ - excellent record selection. He played a jam in London once and did a set of 15 or so UK super obscure hip hop tracks, stuff nobody in London even has. So props for that.



But Endtroducing - don't mean to jump on the bandwagon, but yes. Crazy overrated. It happens all the time though, really. Its not just this album.

I'd consider this a hip hop album for people that don't like hip hop

Yeah. This and 'Black On Both Sides'.

I do like that 'Organ Doner' track though.

[Career Over Like Mike(NJJ)]

Yeah he does get props for his diggin', i guess
isn't he a big crunk fan these days?
can't front
i like me some David Banner.

Haha
word to "black on both sides"
that beat Diamond laced Mos Def with on that album was such a waste
i forget the name of the track
the Axelrod sample
'Puba would've sounded real nice over that one.

[Y@k Bollocks]

And its not his fault 90% of his fans think he invented sampling and scratching and rave about Endtroducing and how its 'really good to get stoned and, like, chill to?'.

Reminds of university days.

[Move Free]

this thread is so on-point.

i bought entroducing when it dropped, mostly due to the buzz it was receiving. i tried my best to like it, but it never really did anything for me. sure, there were a few good parts here and there, but mostly it was too slow and dull.

i've met alot of heads who consider entroducing the second coming of hip-hop production, but i just cant quite understand the appeal.

props to jbl for spotting his love for crunk. i was hyped as hell when shadow did a remix of cool breeze's "cre-a-tine" on one of his mixtapes.

so i respect shadow. he chops great drums, and he knows his records like whoa. but entroducing - i aint with it.

[agent b]

to me, this album basically proved that a full length instrumental hip hop LP can be made and made strong enough to stand on its own without emcees. producers have been trying to achieve this for years and few have accomplished it.

i completely agree with the stereotype of pretentious hipsters who obsess over this album bt that doesnt stop it from being a solid record from front to back.

[clark bent]

that beat Diamond laced Mos Def with on that album was such a waste
i forget the name of the track

'hip-hop'

incredible track AND rhymes...i dont know how you can front on his mc'ing on this album and especially that song...take out the horrible rock n roll track and a couple other mediocre songs in the middle of the album and that shit is ridiculous...even with all that its a very good to great record

'a long way from the shell tops and the bells that L rocked'

i feel you on mos and common when it comes to what they have morphed into over the last 7-8 years...but to deny the incredible stuff they did prior to falling off i just dont get

[devoglam]

not trying to step on toes, but in my opinion, ya'll are trippin. this album does deserve its accolades. no one has made a better instumental album since. i can understand if you prefer an album to be more uptempo, it is kind of a downer. but i think this album is as good as an album can get. i dont think of it as hip hop for some reason. just good music.

[ogice]

I think the Private Press is a much better album; but, because it wasn't Entroducing Part 2, and didn't break any new ground, it didn't get as much press.

There's about 3 good songs on Entroducing but overall, I agree, it's overrated. Prefuse 73's Vocal Uprock Narratives is a much better instrumental album, imo.

And don't hate on Black on Both Sides...that shit is dope.

A better album to use as an example of hip-hop for people that don't like hip-hop would be any album by Eminem, College Dropout, or any Jurrasic 5 album.

[ardamus]

I like that Midnight single for the most part. The album was cool but its more so mood music. Can't listen to it on every occasion.

[barknee]

I'd consider this a hip hop album for people that don't like hip hop
it's the token hip hop album fans of house and techno own, isn't it?

Hahahaha, so on point. When I first went to uni some kid was telling me I was an idiot for classifying Shadow as "hip hop" rather than "trip hop" - fucking moron.

Still, I really really like this album, as far as coffee-table-mood-music-instrumental-hip-hop (which DOES have it's place) goes, nothing comes close. It's SO dense and layered, you can hear something new every single time you listen to it and that to me is one of the signs of a great album.

I remember reading an interview with Shadow where he said that whenever he goes to a record store he always moves all his records from the dance section to the hip hop section - hahaha. It's not his fault it's ended up being misunderstood/misappropriated.

Also, it's the best album to fall asleep to that I've ever heard, is that good or bad???

[multsanta]

or maybe form groups that are dull versions of Coldcrush and Tribe instead, right?
that's Jurrassic 5 and Latryx/Blackalicious, respectively, for the slow.

i usually find myself on the other side of this argument (the argument being - "take that stupid backpackers! i'm shattering your dreams!"), but what exactly about Latyrx makes them a dull version of coldcrush and/or tribe?

the only (solo) shadow song i ever really liked was "midnight in a perfect world", the rest of the record was a damn snore. i think he's a pretty tight dj and all, i just wouldn't listen to his studio recordings.

and isn't it "why hip hop sucked in '96"?

[Grand Central]

and isn't it "why hip hop sucks in '96"?

It sure is

[ill defined]

i lost the cd, and was a little mad about it. after reading this i realized that it wasnt that great and that my life will be better w/out it.

[Bring Back The Tempo]

i lost the cd, and was a little mad about it. after reading this i realized that it wasnt that great and that my life will be better w/out it.

so other's peoples opinions change the way you like a cd?


wow, what will you have, duke.

[Stunna7516]

not trying to step on toes, but in my opinion, ya'll are trippin. this album does deserve its accolades. no one has made a better instumental album since. i can understand if you prefer an album to be more uptempo, it is kind of a downer. but i think this album is as good as an album can get. i dont think of it as hip hop for some reason. just good music.

[Los]

Tom, its why hiphop sucks in 96

[polarity]

I really didn't get into this album at first either, but after actually sitting down and listening to it front to back with headphones, I was blown away. The layering and change-ups are sick. Plus its influence on the genre of instrumental hip-hop is undeniable.

Also, the track is "Why Hiphop Sucks in '96", and was a 40 second interlude with one vocal sample saying "it's the money". Definitely not some grand backpacker manifesto like you're making it out to be.

[Career Over Like Mike(NJJ)]

Shit
my bad
if it's "why hip hop sucks in'96" then substitute what i picked for "iron man", "reasonable doubt" and "ATLiens"
and random singles/songs like, lemme see, "dead presidents", "woo hah"/"everything remains raw", "real live shit", "bout it, 'bout it part 2", "screwed up", "walk with a limp", "bow down" and "get money remix"
the point still remains hip hop far from sucked at the time
and what Shadow brought to the table was far from a viable alternative that was gonna "save hip hop".

I'm suprised people are agreeing here tho'
i thought this album was quite popular here with most of you.

To the kid who asked,
Latryrx/Blackalicious sound like a Tribe/De La type thing to these ears
i mean, it's pleasant on one level i suppose
but mostly i find that type of rap pretty dull,
im sure most of the obscure NYC shit i love like F.T or Ghetto Dwellas sounds like generic thug NYC rap to you.

Speakin' of which,
that Lakey The Kid "by the sword"/"somebody got shot" 12" that dropped on Hydra a few months ago is my shit right now
a.side is the best beat Alchemist never produced
and the flip is a 1994 style g funk beat..sick
Lake is no 'G Rap on the mic but i kinda look at him as a mini-Mega.

[Money Gripp]

i completely agree with the stereotype of pretentious hipsters who obsess over this album but that doesnt stop it from being a solid record from front to back.

Word. It's overrated as fuck, but nevertheless, a great record.

[curiouscharles]

midnight in a perfect world gets me high without weed.

this is definitely a solid record, and if you listen to the samples on "why hip hop sucks in '96" you'll hear "it's the money" which is a perfectly viable argument against the music at the time, the subject matter.

[Los]

midnight in a perfect world gets me high without weed.

this is definitely a solid record, and if you listen to the samples on "why hip hop sucks in '96" you'll hear "it's the money" which is a perfectly viable argument against the music at the time, the subject matter.

What you said.



Honestly, i love this album. I have listened to it about 1000 times. I feel liek i am in a strange land when i hear it. To each his own.

[christopher walken]

to me, this album basically proved that a full length instrumental hip hop LP can be made and made strong enough to stand on its own without emcees. producers have been trying to achieve this for years and few have accomplished it.

i completely agree with the stereotype of pretentious hipsters who obsess over this album bt that doesnt stop it from being a solid record from front to back.

Bingo! and let me add, Shadow owns just about everyone of your favorite dj's...he's absolutley one of the most well-rounded from a skill point of view-- that and the fact that he could school fools for days on a myriad of genres, and he's borderline impeccable live makes him the champion of true, beat-driven, downtempo hip-hop. to say he's not hip-hop and Endtroducing wasn't a hip-hop record is just assinine anyhow. And to hang your theory on his making a record called "why hip-hop sucks in '96" is even dumber. the quality of hip-hop had been in a tailspin since '94, and it was obvious, if it wasn't obvious to you Lex, then you're just in staunch denial... when that record dropped there'd been nothing like it, and since then it's been nary a few that even come close as far as a solely instrumental record. and whoever said they like Uprock Narratives better needs to get their ears flushed. That's a good record and all, but nowhere close, really it's not. JBL, My guess is that you probably should stick to a record more like Petestrumentals...

[Career Over Like Mike(NJJ)]

the quality of hip-hop had been in a tailspin since '94, and it was obvious, if it wasn't obvious to you Lex, then you're just in staunch denial...

I disagree
the albums/songs i mentioned from both 1995 and 1996 are the reason why
in fact, i'd say 1995 might be my favorite year in rap history
and 1996 had everything incredible commercial albums by Outkast and Jay Z down to ill underground 12"s by Screwball and Money Boss Players.

to say he's not hip-hop and Endtroducing wasn't a hip-hop record is just assinine anyhow.

I said nothing of the sort
i said it's the token hip hop album for house/techno fans
never said anywhere it wasn't a hip hop record.

[christopher walken]

the quality of hip-hop had been in a tailspin since '94, and it was obvious, if it wasn't obvious to you Lex, then you're just in staunch denial...

I disagree
the albums/songs i mentioned from both 1995 and 1996 are the reason why
in fact, i'd say 1995 might be my favorite year in rap history
and 1996 had everything incredible commercial albums by Outkast and Jay Z down to ill underground 12"s by Screwball and Money Boss Players.

to say he's not hip-hop and Endtroducing wasn't a hip-hop record is just assinine anyhow.

I said nothing of the sort

i said it's the token hip hop album for house/techno fans
never said anywhere it wasn't a hip hop record.

forgive me on that second part, i think i melded some of my responses. it was for someone else. but c'mon, you're still in denial. comparing '94 to '96, really duke?

[Hasenfefer]

i completely agree with the stereotype of pretentious hipsters who obsess over this album but that doesnt stop it from being a solid record from front to back.

Word. It's overrated as fuck, but nevertheless, a great record.

how can an album be overrated and still be a great record? you people make it like he sold a million copies and his name is a household word.

i think it's a dope album personally...especially from a producers point of view. and to hate on the guy because some geek you know in college swears he's the second coming of christ is dumb.

[Rachel Hobozal]

the quality of hip-hop had been in a tailspin since '94, and it was obvious, if it wasn't obvious to you Lex, then you're just in staunch denial...

I disagree
the albums/songs i mentioned from both 1995 and 1996 are the reason why
in fact, i'd say 1995 might be my favorite year in rap history
and 1996 had everything incredible commercial albums by Outkast and Jay Z down to ill underground 12"s by Screwball and Money Boss Players.

Nobody disagrees about the albums you named being very good/classic records, but every year has great releases. The question isn't whether or not there were great albums that year, but rather, how many were there.

[Career Over Like Mike(NJJ)]

I'm not hatin' on the guy
i gave him mad props as both a dj and a digger
you cannot front on the man in that area
he's a monster.

My points were :
that i personally found most of the album boring
and that most of the people i know who've heard it that really like it tend to be people that don't really listen to rap.

Obviously, i know it's more than likely gonna be a lot more popular with the Cali heads
as y'all tend to like more laid back/down-tempo type shit
but i wanted to know what other people thought.

Also, i'm still standin' by my opinion that 1995 and 1996 were as good as 1994
1995 was better
1996 was, at least, as good.