Moderator: Sigma
Sigma wrote:What you into now? PC gaming where the used game market was eradicated years ago?Combo7 wrote:Looks like I picked the perfect time to get out of console gaming.
Kinect for Xbox One: An always-on, works-in-the-dark camera and microphone. What could possibly go wrong?
The Xbox One will feature, by default, an always-on, works-in-the-dark, microphone and camera that’s constantly connected to the internet and 300,000 servers. What could possibly go wrong?
Following on from the massive success of Kinect on the Xbox 360, Microsoft made the bold choice of bundling every Xbox One with Kinect 2.0. The second-generation Kinect might look like a separate peripheral, but the Xbox One will actually refuse to work if Kinect isn’t plugged in. (See: Kinect for the Xbox One: Sensor revolution or marketing hype?)
On the one hand, this is an awesome boon for developers, who can assume that every Xbox One user has access to voice and gesture controls. For the most part, this should result in richer games and experiences for consumers. On the other hand, what if you want to escape the cold, glassy, ever-present glare of Kinect? What if a developer forces you to use Kinect for a certain part of a game, but you bruised your leg at school and would rather stay seated? Microsoft has made some improvements to Kinect 2.0′s field of view, but what if you’re playing in a really small room, or another environment that just isn’t conducive to motion-based control?
And then there’s the privacy aspect. With the Xbox One, Kinect is constantly on, so that you can navigate around the console with voice and gesture commands. This means that that you’re constantly being watched by an IR camera that can see in the dark, and a microphone that’s constantly listening for your audio cues. Even more terrifyingly, you can turn on the Xbox One with a voice command — yes, even when the Xbox One is off, Kinect is still listening. What if a developer goes rogue and develops malware that snoops on you? What if someone develops Xbox One malware that records what goes on in your child’s bedroom, even when the console appears to be turned off?
Microsoft, for its part, says that privacy across all of its products is a “top priority,” and that “Kinect for Xbox 360 was designed and built with strong privacy protections in place and the new Kinect will continue this commitment.” As we know from experience, though, no system is invulnerable to the manifold attack vectors exploited by malware authors. The Xbox and Xbox 360 were chipped/modded/rooted, and it’s fairly safe to assume that the Xbox One will also suffer the same fate. The point is: The Xbox One is constantly listening and watching, Microsoft needs to make these feeds available to developers, and it’s really only a matter of time until those feeds are subverted — either by a legitimate app developer, or by someone who shouldn’t have access.
In hindsight, maybe we shouldn’t have got our panties quite so knotted over the always-on DRM controversy that never was. Maybe it’s the always-on Kinect that we should really be worried about. Oh, and don’t forget: Microsoft recently filed for a patent that uses the Kinect to spy on you, and block movies from playing if there are too many people sitting in front of your TV.
That patent is real. It would, in theory, allow rights holders to license content only to be viewed when X number of people are in the room - the patent specifically has diagrams in it that describe that scenario.360 wrote:I'm going to need a legit source for that last bolded statement. It seems misconstrued at best
"Even more terrifyingly" - really? Come on.Even more terrifyingly, you can turn on the Xbox One with a voice command — yes, even when the Xbox One is off, Kinect is still listening.
Does the US Government need a warrant to listen to hot words on Kinect?
I imagine a lot of people are going to end up on the feds list, just for casual conversations.
Patriot Act and Kinect = no privacy at all
The applications are sandboxed and modding requires YOU to do it intentionally. I do have privacy concerns with XBox One, but I also have with Google Glass and the webcam in my laptop (where applications aren't sandboxed so it will be easier to just connect to it).
This should't be a concern as long as the sandbox is ok, and considering it's the same for Windows 8 (RT apps), Windows Phone and XBox I think there's a pretty big team of engineers working on it.
The verge also noted that a 6 foot person was completely visible for the kinect at only 3-4 feet away from the sensor, I think that most people have 3-4 feet between them and the TV and are smaller than that.
Also I have a power outlet that I turn off, trying to be eco friendly (said the guy writing form his desktop instead of using the laptop...) I don't think the kinect works without electricity, and if it does we have bigger news than a new console release!
To add to this. AAA gaming on the PC is dying and probably will be dead soon except for MMO (which even they have their own problems lately). With few exceptions PC AAA games start to be discounted by the end of its first month of release and have its SRP drop within 2 months. Then you have all the crying about DRM. And of course that just about every game is pirated 20 to 1 or more. You also have the PC gaming market is not exactly growing to begin with as laptops/All in ones have taken over the PC sales.Sigma wrote:Yeah, but you're paying "a quarter of what console gamers pay" because you're waiting around for Steam sales. If I wait around to buy console games, I can pick them up for 1/4 of the retail price after a few months - sometimes even after a few weeks depending on how they sell. New games on Steam aren't cheap - in fact, they're usually more expensive than they are at retail.
Also, with physical media you can rent it, lend/borrow games, sell games or trade them in. A lot of people pay £30-£40 for a game and if they finish it quickly and won't play it again, they can often trade it in for £25 or so and so it's like a rolling thing where they trade in a game and pay a few pounds for the next one, and so on.
Don't get me wrong - I'm a PC gamer myself, but it's the most restricted platform for gaming of all in terms of what you can do with the games you buy.
That cat that wrote it is one of those retarded IP libertarians. That takes privacy super seriously unless its a company he has a hardon for or allows him to steal other peoples IP. He is big on justifying IP theft.360 wrote:I'm going to need a legit source for that last bolded statement. It seems misconstrued at best
Microsoft has filed for a Kinect-related patent, and it’s a doozy of an application. The abstract describes a camera-based system that would monitor the number of viewers in a room and check to see if the number of occupants exceeded a certain threshold set by the content provider. If there are too many warm bodies present, the device owner would be prompted to purchase a license for a greater number of viewers.
No, really. It’s that blunt. From the abstract: “The users consuming the content on a display device are monitored so that if the number of user-views licensed is exceeded, remedial action may be taken.”
It’s refreshing to see Microsoft eschewing its play-nice-with-everyone approach to business for some old-fashioned, straight-up evil. The patent’s various claims can endow a device with a limited number of performances in a given period of time, a limited number of users allowed to view such performances, and the continuous monitoring of viewers during those performances. It also covers the determination of “when performance of the content to an identified user exceeds a threshold.”
The really interesting thing about this patent is that it suggests that copyright holders are allowed to govern performances in otherwise private dwellings. The application describes how the patent could be applied to head-mounted devices, large screens, gaming and media products, computers, and even mobile phones. Clearly, this isn’t just a method for cracking down on illicit big-screen viewings of movies and television that might plausibly be called a public performance.
Perhaps we shouldn’t be surprised. This is the logical extension of the “you only buy a license” philosophy that rules the content provider universe. Microsoft’s misstep here is in filing for a patent on devices that can only provide a personal viewing experience. Getting 50 people together to watch a movie on someone’s 84-inch television may indeed count as a public performance, as far as copyright law is concerned. Two people watching a movie on a 10-inch iPad, on the other hand, isn’t quite the same thing. MS’s new patent covers both scenarios.
Recent developments in US copyright law could leave a patent like this without much of a bite. Last summer, Judge Posner on the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals struck down a lower court ruling that claimed embedding a video in a website qualified as copyright infringement. In the decision, Posner held that viewing an uploaded video does not infringe on copyright law’s reproductive or distributive rights. The law, he wrote, is unclear on whether or not the act of viewing content infringes on a copyright holder’s performance rights.
This question could have a significant impact on whether or not copyright holders spring for systems like the one Microsoft is trying to patent. If viewing a video online constitutes a performance infringement, rightsholders could mandate a user-detection scheme under the auspices of the DMCA. If it doesn’t, no electronics company on Earth will want to touch the idea for fear of a consumer backlash.
I think it's hard to say how games are doing on the PC a lot of the time, because digital downloads aren't included in many sales charts and I'd say most PC gamers download their games from Steam, Origin or wherever.ThaJim2 wrote:To add to this. AAA gaming on the PC is dying and probably will be dead soon except for MMO (which even they have their own problems lately). With few exceptions PC AAA games start to be discounted by the end of its first month of release and have its SRP drop within 2 months. Then you have all the crying about DRM. And of course that just about every game is pirated 20 to 1 or more. You also have the PC gaming market is not exactly growing to begin with as laptops/All in ones have taken over the PC sales.
Not to worried about this. MS as well as all of the big engineering companies patent the living shit out of everything especially in a situation like Kinect where MS has the patent on all the IP. Its really not all that different from when the Army had the Manhattan Project Engineers basically patent any conceivable use of nuclear power and there ended up patents on nuclear tanks, nuclear planes, nuclear subs and on and on. Most were not only never used but never even seriously developed at all.Combo7 wrote:From the same source, but at least offers more details on the patent: http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/13970 ... r-the-mpaa
ThaJim2 wrote:
Where are you getting this fee for a used game? The fee is for using the same disk to load onto different accounts. MS was asked about used games and said no fee and implied that you would basically have to disassociate the game from your account to sell it. OHS NOS.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/ ... -and-more/3. Used games require an unlock fee
Here’s where things start to get complicated. Whether or not the Xbox One would play used games was one of the biggest questions heading into the event, and one that wasn’t addressed during the presentation. It was asked a million times by the press afterward, but Microsoft still isn’t giving out a full spectrum of details.
The short answer is yes, the Xbox One will play used games.
The long answer is a bit more complex. All Xbox One games must be installed to the hard drive, either through digital download or the disc itself. That allows easy access to titles without disc switching, but it also causes complications. If you buy a physical disc and want to say, loan it a friend, they’ll have to pay an unlock fee to get the game to work on their system with their account. There’s no word on either how much this fee would be, or how many times you could do this with one disc. If the fee is small enough, $10 or so, it would allow people to essentially clone games for cheap. But if it’s expensive, like $30, then that really puts a damper on sharing altogether. Microsoft HAS clarified that if you play a game on a friend’s Xbox using YOUR account, a sharing fee is not required. But if you loan it to them to play on their own account, there would be.
And also what’s clear is that buying a used game will likely come with this same additional fee, meaning the era of uber cheap used games where Gamestop makes 100% pure profit is likely over. Sony so far has refused to comment on their own system for used games, but speculation is that it’s similar to MIcrosoft, and the two will stand united on this front.
On top of all of this, Microsoft says they’re still not releasing all their plans about game swapping and sharing and resale. “We’ll have more details to share later,” they say, but in the meantime, it’s apparent that the definition of what a “used game” is has changed dramatically.
Gucci Condoms wrote:I'm a "convicted rapist" tho
Even with the minimum time it takes to port over to PC now its still a waste of time and effort to produce any content for the PC that does not require some type of always on connection. These games sell in so few numbers with such high piracy rates its counter productive. Better to make them buy it for a console if they want it and actually have a sale instead of competing against yourself with the price being free. This is before getting into the bad press you get for even bothering Ubisoft deals with it. Ask EA how it has gone this year or even Blizzard.Kony Montana wrote:ThaJim2 wrote:
Where are you getting this fee for a used game? The fee is for using the same disk to load onto different accounts. MS was asked about used games and said no fee and implied that you would basically have to disassociate the game from your account to sell it. OHS NOS.I over stated because I swear I saw a comment from a MS rep that said something about used games. But that forbes article is also wrong. As of right now MS has not detailed anything about how used games are going to work other then you will be able to sell and buy used games.
The only thing MS has said about payment is when you say bring your disk over to a friends house (note you can sign in under your login and play it there without cost) but if they want to play the game under their account there will be a fee.
http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/22/43547 ... -confusion
This is the direction the industry has been headed since pretty much the launch of the PS2 with its DVD support. More time is spent watching media on Xbox live then playing games. Don't think for an instant that Sony is not also going heavy into this direction.As far as saying "wait til E3 to talk about games" or "they'll go more in depth about media stuff at comicon" - that isn't really my point. I would expect that a launch event for a game console would be focused on games, not peripheral shit like watching TV and Skype. I'm sure they'll go more in depth sooner than later, but I'm disappointed at the shift of focus from gaming machine to more general media center. No doubt that it'll be wildly successful, but it's not for me.
As for games I watched both the PS4 and now Xbox One announcement and I don't remember a single game for the PS4. I really only remember the Xbox One because it was a couple of days ago but if it was in Feb also probably would have remembered the COD announcement.
They announced 4 (7ish depending on how you want to count) games for the system plus a promise of 15 MS Studio games including what 7 new IPs. But, no one remembers Forza 5 or that new game from the Max Payne makers because well the counsel annocument always overshadows these things never mind that the 2 biggest games in the world where announced with new next gen engines and exclusive or first content for the Xbox 1. It is much better to just announce them in 2 weeks where they are not as overshadowed.
Jim, I also sincerely doubt PC gaming is going to die anytime soon. I think the One SDK is windows based, and the Unreal 4 engine is imminent, so why wouldn't any AAA publisher spend the relatively small cost it take to optimize their AAA titles for PC? There's no cost for distribution, and they make up for the lack of mass sales by discounting it earlier. Though if you're talking about AAA PC exclusives, that's true/been true for a while.
Whatever the case is, I wish they'd spell it out. It's hard to believe they're still figuring it out months from launch. How they implement it is still baffling to me. So, you bring your game over to your buddies house, and when you leave, he can pay a fee to play that game on his own profile. Does he need a physical copy of the game to be present to play it? If not, is that fee going to be equal to the MSRP of a physical copy?The only thing MS has said about payment is when you say bring your disk over to a friends house (note you can sign in under your login and play it there without cost) but if they want to play the game under their account there will be a fee.
Gucci Condoms wrote:I'm a "convicted rapist" tho
From what I understand...Kony Montana wrote:Whatever the case is, I wish they'd spell it out. It's hard to believe they're still figuring it out months from launch. How they implement it is still baffling to me. So, you bring your game over to your buddies house, and when you leave, he can pay a fee to play that game on his own profile. Does he need a physical copy of the game to be present to play it? If not, is that fee going to be equal to the MSRP of a physical copy?
I've sold almost every single Xbox game I've ever bought on Ebay for between 20 and 40 bucks (usually depending on how long I have it for).Combo7 wrote:I suppose; I've never thought to trade in a game I've finished so that aspect isn't really a factor for me (though if I did, I don't know of anyplace in the U.S. that would give me more than a few bucks for a game).
Yep. One of many reasons I'm out on new consoles.Combo7 wrote:Get ready to kiss that market goodbye if the rumors Sigma outlined are true.
Microsoft Thinking About Giving You Achievements For Watching TV
Achievements are changing on the new Xbox One. They might be changing even more than we realise, though, if a Microsoft patent application for TV achievements ever actually comes to fruition.
Yes, according to a report on GI.biz, last November Microsoft applied for a patent aimed at giving you achievements for watching TV.
"Television viewing tends to be a passive experience for a viewer, without many opportunities for the viewer to engage or have interactive experiences with the presented content," the application's description reads. "To increase interactive viewing and encourage a user to watch one or more particular items of video content, awards and achievements may be tied to those items of video content."
That last sentence is the kicker, Microsoft obviously hoping to use achievements as a carrot, with sponsored content the stick.
Some other rewards beyond just a score are mentioned, such as "new clothes and props for an avatar, virtual money for a game, or even physical rewards."
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2 ... rce=feedly
