NOIR

darkwingduck · Post by **darkwingduck** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:42 am

i have a few titles in my possession, mainly MELLVILLE stuff. I would like to learn more about this style of film/novel and become to understand it.

Trademark · Post by **Trademark** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:47 am

Touch of Evil to ChinaTown... Maltese Falcon is the best though...

darkwingduck · Post by **darkwingduck** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:01 am

Trademark wrote:Maltese Falcon is the best though...

this is the Kurosawa rip no?

The Drunken Poet · Post by **The Drunken Poet** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:06 am

darkwingduck wrote:i have a few titles in my possession, mainly MELLVILLE stuff. I would like to learn more about this style of film/novel and become to understand it.

Well, what do you want to know? You want titles?

Funky Butler · Post by **Funky Butler** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:09 am

Nosferatu
Faust
the Cabinet of Dr. Caligari
M
The Testament of Dr Mabuse
Scarface
Public Enemy
I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang
The Stranger on the Third Floor
Citizen Kane
The Maltese Falcon
This Gun for Hire
Double Indemnity
Scarlet Street
Murder, My Sweet
Out of the Past
The Killers
The Big Sleep
The Big Heat
The Big Combo
The Big Lebowski
The Big Clock
Treasure of the Sierra Madre
White Heat
Lady in the Lake
Unfaithfully Yours
Kiss Me Deadly
The Killing
Touch of Evil
Lady from Shanghai
Madigan
Point Blank
Chinatown
the Godfather
the Long Goodbye
Body Heat
Blood Simple
Blade Runner
After Dark, My Sweet
The Grifters
Reservoir Dogs
The Man Who Wasnt There
the Ice Harvest
Kiss Kiss Bang Bang

that's a very quick, loose buncha movies in somewhat chronological order that should give a good overview of visual style, narrative techniques, themes, influences on the classic period (41-59) and films that the classic period influences from revisionist noirs to straight up noir pastiche

in terms of novels, Hammett sort of started the whole hardboiled detective genre (Red Harvest is a great great book), Chandler sort of perfected it i guess (the Big Sleep, the Long Goodbye, all those phillip marlowe joints), James M. Cain (Double Indemnity, the Postman Always Rings Twice) and Jim Thompson is about the illest that ever did it (The Getaway, The Grifters)

depending on how lofty and pretentious you want to get you could always throw in a little Dostoevsky, Camus, Sartre or Hemingway into the mix and make a case for their influence on Film Noir

ugh pedantic

FreshShabazz · Post by **FreshShabazz** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:10 am

I really like "The Big Sleep" although I could not explain the plot to you.

As far as modern noir... I LOVE "Body Heat".

Too tired and drunk to make a list.

StormShadow · Post by **StormShadow** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:19 am

Maltese Falcoln is not a Kurosawa rip.

And I don't know about those German expressionist titles in Butler's list, I'd never call those noir myself.

And Darkwing if you want a quick and dirty (but good) guide, just pick up one or three of Warner Brothers film noir boxsets. They're probably relatively cheap now, and they're good sets.

darkwingduck · Post by **darkwingduck** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:03 pm

The Drunken Poet wrote:You want titles?

yeah, that and kind of a history of NOIR. I know it started off in pulp and gradually made it to the big screen. Also, id be down to find some good novels on the noir tip.

darkwingduck · Post by **darkwingduck** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:58 pm

anybody read...Red Harvest by Dashiell Hammett...?

StormShadow · Post by **StormShadow** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:20 pm

No, but I've seen like three or four film versions of it (more or less)

And if you want noir books, you would be smart to just start buying random books from Hard Case Crime. I've read maybe five so far and while they're not all noir, they've all been pretty awesome so far (and a good amount of what they publish ARE noir, and the stuff that isn't is generally thrillery kind of pulp novels from back in the day, along with a few books from current authors).

Fuckin' A · Post by **Fuckin' A** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:23 pm

darkwingduck wrote:
The Drunken Poet wrote:You want titles?
yeah, that and kind of a history of NOIR. I know it started off in pulp and gradually made it to the big screen. Also, id be down to find some good novels on the noir tip.

Film noir is a cinematic term used primarily to describe stylish Hollywood crime dramas, particularly those that emphasize moral ambiguity and sexual motivation. Hollywood's classic film noir period is generally regarded as stretching from the early 1940s to the late 1950s. Film noir of this era is associated with a low-key black-and-white visual style that has roots in German Expressionist cinematography, while many of the prototypical stories and much of the attitude of classic noir derive from the hardboiled school of crime fiction that emerged in the United States during the Depression.

The term film noir (French for "black film"), first applied to Hollywood movies by French critic Nino Frank in 1946, was unknown to most American film industry professionals of the era. Cinema historians and critics defined the canon of film noir in retrospect; many of those involved in the making of the classic noirs later professed to be unaware of having created a distinctive type of film.

and for a history lesson in Noir, here is the rest. Pretty much everything you want/need to know darkwing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_noir

The Drunken Poet · Post by **The Drunken Poet** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:08 pm

darkwingduck wrote:
The Drunken Poet wrote:You want titles?
yeah, that and kind of a history of NOIR. I know it started off in pulp and gradually made it to the big screen. Also, id be down to find some good novels on the noir tip.

I mean in terms of Noir writing I would def recommend starting with a best of collection, but if you want key writers: Dashielle Hammet, Mickey Spillane, Jim Thompson, Donald E. Westlake, and Raymond Chandler are among the most popular and well received of the genre. And to much lesser extent some of Elmore Leonard's work as well.

drizzle · Post by **drizzle** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:17 pm

darkwing you should maybe try to track down Paul Schrader's Notes on Film Noir essay, it was written in the 70's so obv the modern stuff is not included, but he does a great job of breaking the genre down during it's peak post-war years. He sites tons of examples too

darkwingduck · Post by **darkwingduck** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:47 am

The Drunken Poet wrote:key writers: Dashielle Hammet, Mickey Spillane, Jim Thompson, Donald E. Westlake, and Raymond Chandler are among the most popular and well received of the genre. And to much lesser extent some of Elmore Leonard's work as well.

just finished reading this...a real page turner. have you or anyone else read anything else by him...? im looking to read another Hammett and def. looking into your list of authors...thanks

StormShadow · Post by **StormShadow** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 7:08 am

Pick up any all Parker novels by Donald Westlake's alter ego, Richard Stark

you might have to dig though, all except the two newest ones are out of print

drizzle · Post by **drizzle** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:46 am

darkwingduck wrote:
The Drunken Poet wrote:key writers: Dashielle Hammet, Mickey Spillane, Jim Thompson, Donald E. Westlake, and Raymond Chandler are among the most popular and well received of the genre. And to much lesser extent some of Elmore Leonard's work as well.

just finished reading this...a real page turner. have you or anyone else read anything else by him...? im looking to read another Hammett and def. looking into your list of authors...thanks

def check out the Dain Curse and the rest of the Continental Op stuff (I'm a big fan of the short stories in particular). The Thin Man is a little lighter in tone and subject matter, but also very enjoyable.

Funky Butler · Post by **Funky Butler** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 12:12 pm

ahh i missed this topic

I just finished reading 'Night and the City' by Gerald Kersh. I liked it a lot, dark as hell man, barely a single likable character in the whole thing but beautifully written

I also finally got through reading Jim Thompson's oeuvre. If you want Noir fiction, im serious, JT's the man with the plan

cascarrabias · Post by **cascarrabias** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:23 am

Tommy Bunz · Post by **Tommy Bunz** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:42 am

Thread is sleeping on

drizzle · Post by **drizzle** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:14 pm

i just got this, it's coming out on Criterion in the next week or two. Very highly recommended

rainmaker · Post by **rainmaker** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:10 pm

The Maltese Falcom
Double Indemnity
Laura
Murder, My Sweet
The Big Sleep
Kiss of Death
Out of the Past
Night and the City
Sorry, Wrong Number
Criss Cross
Gun Crazy
The Asphalt Jungle
The Big Heat
The Killing
Touch of Evil
The Third Man
Scarlet Street

drizzle · Post by **drizzle** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:13 pm

you know... this is kinda sacrilegious in the noir lexicon but I didn't think Gun Crazy was that great. Maybe i should give it another chance, but i distinctly remember being disappointed with it

rainmaker · Post by **rainmaker** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:01 pm

Eddie Muller's probably the biggest film noir expert in the world...its basically the guy's life work...here's a couple nice items about noir by him...

drizzle · Post by **drizzle** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:23 pm

those do look pretty cool, i don't read enough books about movies

the movie that's not showing in the picture above BTW is Blast Of Silence, which is new on Criterion and i liked it so much I'm recommednign it again

Funky Butler · Post by **Funky Butler** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:33 pm

gun crazy is all sorts of awesome

one of the best bank robbery scenes ever

also i couldnt decide whether to post in the 'underrated' topic but film noir is full of unsung heroes of kickassery

folks like joe lewis, tony mann, and john farrow

drizzle · Post by **drizzle** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:46 pm

i dunno, i always heard about how it's so dirty and perverse, it just didn't live up to it.

drizzle · Post by **drizzle** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:51 pm

Now this is an awesome little nasty bit that did actually live up to it's reputation. Plus, Lee Van Cleef plays a homo and still comes off pretty bad ass (not 'liberachi' gay, 'read between the lines' gay - it is the 50s after all)

darkwingduck · Post by **darkwingduck** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:34 pm

cascarrabias wrote:

AWESOME POST.

right now im trying to get into noir through the reading of NOIR type stories. Just picked up The Continental OP by Dashiell Hammett. I think driz mighta suggested I read that. So far so good good buddy.

drizzle · Post by **drizzle** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:52 am

^^ everything by Hammett is worth picking up, awesome writer

StormShadow · Post by **StormShadow** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:41 pm

drizzle wrote:

Now this is an awesome little nasty bit that did actually live up to it's reputation. Plus, Lee Van Cleef plays a homo and still comes off pretty bad ass (not 'liberachi' gay, 'read between the lines' gay - it is the 50s after all)

Oh dang, plus the god Brian Donlevy. I'm on the lookout for that guy these days yup.

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