Lost - The Final Season (mildly NSFW)

[ALASKA]

there really was nothing vague about it.

[Truth.]

i'm interested to see what the finale pulls in, i'm gonna guess about 13 mill

9 p.m.

ABC: "Lost" finale (13 million, 7.2/11)
CBS: "ACM Presents Brooks & Dunn: The Last Rodeo" (10.9 million, 6.7/11)
NBC: "The Celebrity Apprentice" finale (8.6 million, 5.3/8)
FOX: "Family Guy" two episodes (6.3 million, 3.6/6)

18-49 leader: "Lost" finale (5.6)

10 p.m.

ABC: "Lost" finale (13.1 million, 7.2/12)
NBC: "The Celebrity Apprentice" finale (10 million, 6.2/10)
CBS: "CSI" (6.8 million, 4.5/7)

[drizzle]

well let me see now... everything that happened on the island was real and the most important thing in these people's lives, but after they died none of it apparently registered and somehow they forgot they went through it all and already resolved all these issues on the island so they had to resolve them one more time in some kind of 'not purgatory' so they could all meet in a church and go to heaven together.

yeah that seems pretty clear

[ackbar]

This explanation helped me understand the ending a bit more clearly...

I am a fairly smart person and have been watching this show since it started. However my mind is very mechanical in nature and as a result I always suffered in English courses. I am not good at "reading between the lines" or interpreting symbolism. The people on these forums with patience for those like me have helped me on many an occasion. Specifically with the ending I went to bed rather confused and after trolling for an hour and re-watching the Jack/Christian conversation I understand what was going on.

Here is what I have come to understand.

When each of the 815ers die they end up on the plane in the ALT.

They all go through various events in this made up "purgatory" until they come the realization that they are dead.

We as the viewer saw it happening with Desmond giving them all a little push from time to time, and sometimes without Desmond intervening (a la Juliett & Sawyer, Jin & Sun & Juliet).

Once they have figured this out they are "ready" (a la Hurley to Des regarding Ana Lucia "oh, she's not ready yet?")

They all go to the Church once they reach this conclusion, but not all at the same time.

Jack is the final one to make it to the Church, and we can assume that everybody else had a similar "awakening" that Jack had with Christian, but we get to see Jack's.

Once Jack remembers when and how he died, the light overwhelms the Church and he moves on with the rest who were waiting for him because they needed him (conversation with Christian).

The reason I think they were at the Church for a while, oddly, is because of Kate's clothing. She is wearing a dress in the jeep but in totally different clothes in the Church, whereas Jack was wearing the same suit. (Discussed I am sure but due to the high traffic I couldn't log on last night and missed the thread that talked about this)

Anyways, thanks again to those with the time and patience to spell it out for people like me.

Feel free to correct anything you think I have gotten wrong or missed.

that's exactly how i took it.

as far as answers about the island are concerned.. they sort of answered them. i realize it's not a satisfying answer to a lot of people (and they left out a lot of important details) but..

- the island is an ancient island in the middle of the pacific ocean
- there is a light that is the life force of the island & it possess both unique electromagnetic & magical properties
- jacob was the one who brought them to the island so he could find a replacement for himself to protect the light
- the light can be harnessed through science/physics to do a number of different things. most notably time travel
- jacob's brother is the smoke monster
- etc.
- etc.

it's not like they completely ignored the folklore of the island this past season..

[ALASKA]

well let me see now... everything that happened on the island was real and the most important thing in these people's lives, but after they died none of it apparently registered and somehow they forgot they went through it all and already resolved all these issues on the island so they had to resolve them one more time in some kind of 'not purgatory' so they could all meet in a church and go to heaven together.

yeah that seems pretty clear

i understand you have a phd in the afterlife from regent university so it might not have been as in depth as your thesis. they needed to first understand they were dead, and the only people who could show they that were the onces they they had this bond with. finding the most important person or people in your life.

[ThaJim2]

i'm interested to see what the finale pulls in, i'm gonna guess about 13 mill

9 p.m.

ABC: "Lost" finale (13 million, 7.2/11)
CBS: "ACM Presents Brooks & Dunn: The Last Rodeo" (10.9 million, 6.7/11)
NBC: "The Celebrity Apprentice" finale (8.6 million, 5.3/8)
FOX: "Family Guy" two episodes (6.3 million, 3.6/6)

18-49 leader: "Lost" finale (5.6)

10 p.m.

ABC: "Lost" finale (13.1 million, 7.2/12)
NBC: "The Celebrity Apprentice" finale (10 million, 6.2/10)
CBS: "CSI" (6.8 million, 4.5/7)

So both the ratings and the quality sucked.

[drizzle]

finding the most important person or people in your life.

[citizen]

does anyone have some kind of theory why the island was on the bottom of the ocean in the ALT, does this make sense? was this just used to throw people off and think it was an alternate reality?

EDIT: bens dad talked about the island and the dharma initiative, so it still existed in this alt, so how did it sink in this purgatory-ish place

[ThaJim2]

does anyone have some kind of theory why the island was on the bottom of the ocean in the ALT, does this make sense? was this just used to throw people off and think it was an alternate reality?

The writers thought it was a cool image and of course there was no need for them to answer that question once they brought it up because its all about characters and not about the mystery in any way at all.

[drizzle]

does anyone have some kind of theory why the island was on the bottom of the ocean in the ALT, does this make sense? was this just used to throw people off and think it was an alternate reality?

it only makes sense as some kind of red herring, theoretically covered by the fact that the alt reality is some imaginary neverland they made up after death and nothing in it has to bear a single shred of logic as long as in the end they all hold hands together and ghostride the church into the light.

lol at anybody who tries to explain it via the Hbomb in any kind of logical grounded cause-and-effect kind of way. if you really NEED any kind of answer, the best way to go here would be to shoehorn it into a vague metaphysical paradox where the bomb changed nothing and everything simultaneously

[ackbar]

does anyone have some kind of theory why the island was on the bottom of the ocean in the ALT, does this make sense? was this just used to throw people off and think it was an alternate reality?

well..
by the time jack makes it to the church/funeral home, hurley is also there. i think we can all make the leap that the relationship to time changes once they're dead. as christian said.. some of them died before him & some of them died after.

so it is possible that whenever hurley/ben died.. the island also died/sunk. a linear timeline isn't as important in that world.. because jack could have been in "purgatory" or whatever for 10,000 years. i think of it more as a dreamlike state, when you're struggle to make sense of something that just barely makes sense in a dream

[point blank]

does anyone have some kind of theory why the island was on the bottom of the ocean in the ALT, does this make sense? was this just used to throw people off and think it was an alternate reality?

The writers thought it was a cool image and of course there was no need for them to answer that question once they brought it up because its all about characters and not about the mystery in any way at all.

cool image? it was [more] shitty CGI.

[Truth.]

Am i the only one that thinks Vincent was there at the end waiting for Jack to die so he could eat his body?

[Stoop Kid]

I liked it. They did everything they could do. Kimmel was great. Young Jacob popping up all over the place was hilarity.

[Random Sample]

The Alternate time line really has no significance to the main story until the end. I thought Christian pretty much summed up the alternate time line pretty clearly, that it was a meeting place that they created so they could find each other again. The sunken island has nothing to do with the story other than the writers to throw a wrench in the gears to fuck people up.

[ALASKA]

my question to eveeryone that is so pissed off about it is this:

At the end of season five you have accepted that there were these two apparently ageless entities in a long time struggle, almost god like figures. They are in a contest, for lack of a better term, to prove the worth of humanity. One is trying to kill the other and escape. how would you have made it so it would have ended in anything other than religious overtones, or in the way it ended?

[drizzle]

my question to eveeryone that is so pissed off about it is this:

At the end of season five you have accepted that there were these two apparently ageless entities in a long time struggle, almost god like figures. They are in a contest, for lack of a better term, to prove the worth of humanity. One is trying to kill the other and escape. how would you have made it so it would have ended in anything other than religious overtones, or in the way it ended?

clearly the best way to go about it was to ignore the the whole thing about 'proving the worth of humanity' altogether, spend the next season making them seem the ultimate point of the whole show that trumps most of what happened before, then reduce it all to some mommy issues and 'i just want to get off the island', then quickly resolve the whole thing via a magical bathtub stopper in order to hastily refocus on the original core characters in a logic proof mystic afterlife

[drizzle]

you're right, its all so simple. really no other way for it to go

[Gregg Popabitch]

I would've made it so there was no sidways timeline that was purgatory/their own construct so they could go to heaven. After watching the finale, I realized all of my concerns that it could've been pointless came to fruition.

with no sideways timeline, maybe they could've focused more on the island itself and it's mythology. NOPE. They decided to focus on babality.

[Random Sample]

I was a little pissed after I watched it, but as I thought about it, the ending made sense. Faith has always been a big theme in the show so I kind of figured that religion would play a part in it. As for Jacob and the MIB, I always thought they were angels.

[ALASKA]

my question to eveeryone that is so pissed off about it is this:

At the end of season five you have accepted that there were these two apparently ageless entities in a long time struggle, almost god like figures. They are in a contest, for lack of a better term, to prove the worth of humanity. One is trying to kill the other and escape. how would you have made it so it would have ended in anything other than religious overtones, or in the way it ended?

clearly the best way to go about it was to ignore the the whole thing about 'proving the worth of humanity' altogether, spend the next season making them seem the ultimate point of the whole show that trumps most of what happened before, then reduce it all to some mommy issues and 'i just want to get off the island', then quickly resolve the whole thing via a magical bathtub stopper in order to hastily refocus on the original core characters in a logic proof mystic afterlife

so basically more science, more time travel, and more daddy issues?

[The Afronaut]

my question to eveeryone that is so pissed off about it is this:

At the end of season five you have accepted that there were these two apparently ageless entities in a long time struggle, almost god like figures. They are in a contest, for lack of a better term, to prove the worth of humanity. One is trying to kill the other and escape. how would you have made it so it would have ended in anything other than religious overtones, or in the way it ended?

There have been religious overtones since jump street so I get that, but I thought at least w/ LOST's history it wouldnt have been a straight up good vs. evil type thing.

Like maybe the MIB would "good" instead of it coming down to a black = bad, white = good metaphor.

[ackbar]

clearly the best way to go about it was to ignore the the whole thing about 'proving the worth of humanity' altogether, spend the next season making them seem the ultimate point of the whole show that trumps most of what happened before, then reduce it all to some mommy issues and 'i just want to get off the island', then quickly resolve the whole thing via a magical bathtub stopper in order to hastily refocus on the original core characters in a logic proof mystic afterlife

except (as evidenced by last night's episode).. the island/mysteries were never the "ultimate point of the whole show".

it might be a hard pill for some to swallow.. but deal with it.
from the first episode the show has been about humanity/morality/life/death/redemption/spirituality.. and the finale did not deviate from that in the slightest.

[ALASKA]

I would've made it so there was no sidways timeline that was purgatory/their own construct so they could go to heaven. After watching the finale, I realized all of my concerns that it could've been pointless came to fruition.

with no sideways timeline, maybe they could've focused more on the island itself and it's mythology. NOPE. They decided to focus on babality.

so more episodes like across the sea then?

[ALASKA]

my question to eveeryone that is so pissed off about it is this:

At the end of season five you have accepted that there were these two apparently ageless entities in a long time struggle, almost god like figures. They are in a contest, for lack of a better term, to prove the worth of humanity. One is trying to kill the other and escape. how would you have made it so it would have ended in anything other than religious overtones, or in the way it ended?

There have been religious overtones since jump street so I get that, but I thought at least w/ LOST's history it wouldnt have been a straight up good vs. evil type thing.

Like maybe the MIB would "good" instead of it coming down to a black = bad, white = good metaphor.

it wasnt straight good verse evil. jacob killed mib, so how good was he. it was always grey

[PopeyeJones]

how would you have made it so it would have ended in anything other than religious overtones, or in the way it ended?

What? Nobody is complaining about religious overtones.

My only complaint about the religious symbolism (and it's a minor one) was the new-age, faggy, we-are-the-world spiritualism vagaries and the hackneyed attempt to feign as if the Christian spiritual message of the ending is actually universal. There's a Star of David on the stained glass window that shouldn't be there. Judaism doesn't have heaven that people go to, and any discussion of any afterlife at all is highly debatable. Same thing with Taoism and the yin-yang pane on the window. It's a Christian ending. Pretending it's otherwise was kind of bullshit.

Still though, as for your question, I think many of us have spent a lot of time talking about the things that could have been cut from this season and the things that could have been addressed. As for how they ended it, as said earlier, I think the ending is a bait-and-switch, and explains the flashsides of this season in the hopes that nobody will notice they didn't answer the two biggest questions that have driven the entire show for six seasons.

Nobody is complaining about religious overtones.

[Gregg Popabitch]

I would've made it so there was no sidways timeline that was purgatory/their own construct so they could go to heaven. After watching the finale, I realized all of my concerns that it could've been pointless came to fruition.

with no sideways timeline, maybe they could've focused more on the island itself and it's mythology. NOPE. They decided to focus on babality.

so more episodes like across the sea then?

maybe across the sea would've been executed better as a 2 part episode which could've been done if half the season wasn't sideways fagatory.

[ALASKA]

how would you have made it so it would have ended in anything other than religious overtones, or in the way it ended?

What? Nobody is complaining about religious overtones.

My only complaint about the religious symbolism (and it's a minor one) was the new-age, faggy, we-are-the-world spiritualism vagaries and the hackneyed attempt to feign as if the Christian spiritual message of the ending is actually universal. There's a Star of David on the stained glass window that shouldn't be there. Judaism doesn't have heaven that people go to, and any discussion of any afterlife at all is highly debatable. Same thing with Taoism and the yin-yang pane on the window. It's a Christian ending. Pretending it's otherwise was kind of bullshit.

Still though, as for your question, I think many of us have spent a lot of time talking about the things that could have been cut from this season and the things that could have been addressed. As for how they ended it, as said earlier, I think the ending is a bait-and-switch, and explains the flashsides of this season in the hopes that nobody will notice they didn't answer the two biggest questions that have driven the entire show for six seasons.

Nobody is complaining about religious overtones.

fair enough about the overtones. which two big questions didnt they answer?

[The Afronaut]

so basically more science, more time travel

That actually wouldve been fine w/me.

...I also wish theyd gone back to the flashback style of storytelling.

except (as evidenced by last night's episode).. the island/mysteries were never the "ultimate point of the whole show".

it might be a hard pill for some to swallow.. but deal with it.
from the first episode the show has been about humanity/morality/life/death/redemption/spirituality.. and the finale did not deviate from that in the slightest.

Do you really think you wouldve kept watching the show for its whole run if it wasnt about the island/mysteries? Seriously?

[citizen]

I would've made it so there was no sidways timeline that was purgatory/their own construct so they could go to heaven. After watching the finale, I realized all of my concerns that it could've been pointless came to fruition.

with no sideways timeline, maybe they could've focused more on the island itself and it's mythology. NOPE. They decided to focus on babality.

so more episodes like across the sea then?

maybe across the sea would've been executed better as a 2 part episode which could've been done if half the season wasn't sideways fagatory.

they really should have started introducing all of this in season 4 instead of wasting time getting to know some freighter people following a tracking beacon attached to a dog