The Dark Knight Rises - July 20, 2012

[Willie B]

Im insanely surprised at peoples response to Catwoman.

I felt like she was by far the weakest link in the film.

Not because of Hathaway's acting mind you, but moreso as an underdeveloped superfluous character to the story Nolan was telling with this movie.

really? I thought she was developed enough and there were enough nuances in her performance that she really shined. She was menacing, playful, remorseful, funny and badass all at the same damn time.

[The Afronaut]

I guess Im just confused at what that character added to the story besides eye candy.

She wasnt really necessary for any of the major plot points.

[Trademark]

I guess Im just confused at what that character added to the story besides eye candy.

She wasnt really necessary for any of the major plot points.

betrayal, redemption, romance, intrigue dominatrix.................

[The Afronaut]

I guess Im just confused at what that character added to the story besides eye candy.

She wasnt really necessary for any of the major plot points.

betrayal, redemption, romance, intrigue dominatrix.................

My reply may contain spoilers and is whited out avoid any problems

Betrayal

Alfred fessing up about Rachel's letter

Redemption

Pretty much everything that took place once Bruce returned from "the pit".

Romance

Talia Al Ghul - although admittedly this couldve been fleshed out a bit more.

Intrigue

Bane's orgins/motivations

Dominatrix

...Fine. I'll give you this one.

[Trademark]

I guess Im just confused at what that character added to the story besides eye candy.

She wasnt really necessary for any of the major plot points.

betrayal, redemption, romance, intrigue dominatrix.................

My reply may contain spoilers and is whited out avoid any problems

Betrayal

Alfred fessing up about Rachel's letter

Redemption

Pretty much everything that took place once Bruce returned from "the pit".

Romance

Talia Al Ghul - although admittedly this couldve been fleshed out a bit more.

Intrigue

Bane's orgins/motivations

Dominatrix

...Fine. I'll give you this one.

fair points, all of them.

[The Afronaut]

fair points, all of them.

[Comedy Quaddafi]

Lots of the comic relief came from Catwoman and she was obviously there to get the female audience involved with her sassy girlpower one-liners and how she kicked man-ass. She was vital to the closing scenes too. Her role in the movie made sense but for the wrong reasons, not that she was a huge nuissance. I was more worried about JGL but he really his own.

Great film but I actually enjoyed the first half more. The opening scene and the stock-market part was my favorite things about the movie. Was worried that Bane wouldn't be interesting enough as a villain but he definitely was.

[Mindbender Futurama]

just came from seeing this movie. personally, I think it's the best of the three, by far. I liked its revelations and how it resolves itself, and I LOVED Bane. You want to root for the villain HARD in this movie. And holy shit did he ever steal most of the show right from under Batman's cape. Also, Catwoman didn't really have one flaw, to me.

talk about a slow build. the movie didn't jangle about like the last one with the Joker and his unpredictable scheming and how that played with the plot. it unfolded with a singular focus and dutifully marched towards the grand finale with grace and power. But I think there were a few minor moments of failure in the all the storyline pieces connecting, hope we can discuss it soon. But Bane's voice/tone/philosophy was just fucking awesome, and his script's quotables were pure jems. Batman/Bale was at his best here compared to the other movies, but there were a few key moments they cut that decreased the empathy one might build for his character's redemption.

the reason that Nolan's Batman movies don't resonate with me is that he edits out certain moments in time that create the requisite resonance to let people fully process what the fuck has just happened. Sure he's arty and quite realistic about his vision... but so many times, he establishes a shot with an unorthodox framing, and you see what's going on, but you don't get to REALLY what's going on, cause he cuts to a next scene or overlaps it with dialogue and the meaning doesn't resonate as deeply. AMIRITE OR AMIRITE

p.s. ~don't~ miss Catwoman's ass. hard to know who would win if Catwoman's ass scrapped with ScarJo/Black Widow's ass.

I had no problems with her at all in the movie. Subtle, but effective and important. YAY ANNE HATHAWAY

the movie still needed a BIT more humor though. the Nolan universe is SO fucking dour and bleak. like more than real life even is. christ, lighten up a bit, Nolan.

still, 'The Dark Knight Rises' is the best of the three. Go see it, Bat-fans

[Trademark]

I feel dumb for having read that.

[Mindbender Futurama]

as a movie lover though, am I wrong about Nolan's editing style? don't be immature, please state your opinion.

a movie doesn't have to take any cliche Bay/Ratner/Spielberg/Lucas approach to capturing the action... but cmon now.

And he's STILL not a good director of fight sequences. Batman should be like a fast and furious martial artist when he fights, not a MMA street thug in a dark costume. It's all plain punches and kicks with Bale/Nolan.

Bane is awesome in this shit. I just wish they kinda did the cartoon thing where his suit pumped him full of insane adrenaline and he kinda Hulked out... but this was certainly good enough evil.

[Trademark]

as a movie lover though, am I wrong about Nolan's editing style? don't be immature, please state your opinion.

a movie doesn't have to take any cliche Bay/Ratner/Spielberg/Lucas approach to capturing the action... but cmon now.

And he's STILL not a good director of fight sequences. Batman should be like a fast and furious martial artist when he fights, not a MMA street thug in a dark costume. It's all plain punches and kicks with Bale/Nolan.

Bane is awesome in this shit. I just wish they kinda did the cartoon thing where his suit pumped him full of insane adrenaline and he kinda Hulked out... but this was certainly good enough evil.

But you love Batman returns in which he was wearing a 100 lb suit and couldn't turn his head?

[Spiccoli]

Im regretting responding before i even start writing this buuuut:

as a movie lover though, am I wrong about Nolan's editing style? don't be immature, please state your opinion.

Correct, he does not hold your hand and obnoxiously point at things to look at like daddy does at the Zoo. He understands that moments will have the greatest impact if they come out of your own discovery//via the product of your own imagination.

a movie doesn't have to take any cliche Bay/Ratner/Spielberg/Lucas approach to capturing the action... but cmon now.

right. why should someone want to define their own aesthetic?

And he's STILL not a good director of fight sequences. Batman should be like a fast and furious martial artist when he fights, not a MMA street thug in a dark costume. It's all plain punches and kicks with Bale/Nolan.

maybe because nolan wants to show how a dude without super natural powers could actually kick the shit out of people. this complaint to me sounds like a fan of the WWE wondering why they don't do the supa fly snuccka during UFC fights.

Bane is awesome in this shit. I just wish they kinda did the cartoon thing where his suit pumped him full of insane adrenaline and he kinda Hulked out... but this was certainly good enough evil.

"wish they kinda did the cartoon thing" i guess this pretty much wraps up why you dont understand this particular trilogy.

[Mindbender Futurama]

as a movie lover though, am I wrong about Nolan's editing style? don't be immature, please state your opinion.

a movie doesn't have to take any cliche Bay/Ratner/Spielberg/Lucas approach to capturing the action... but cmon now.

And he's STILL not a good director of fight sequences. Batman should be like a fast and furious martial artist when he fights, not a MMA street thug in a dark costume. It's all plain punches and kicks with Bale/Nolan.

Bane is awesome in this shit. I just wish they kinda did the cartoon thing where his suit pumped him full of insane adrenaline and he kinda Hulked out... but this was certainly good enough evil.

But you love Batman returns in which he was wearing a 100 lb suit and couldn't turn his head?

I never said I loved that movie. It's cool, but it totally has admirable highs and embarrassing lows. The tone of it might have been the best of all of them, but the plot had some unforgivably ridiculous errors. Devito must feel some shame at the Penguin portrayal. Blecch.

Im regretting responding before i even start writing this buuuut:

as a movie lover though, am I wrong about Nolan's editing style? don't be immature, please state your opinion.

Correct, he does not hold your hand and obnoxiously point at things to look at like daddy does at the Zoo. He understands that moments will have the greatest impact if they come out of your own discovery//via the product of your own imagination.

a movie doesn't have to take any cliche Bay/Ratner/Spielberg/Lucas approach to capturing the action... but cmon now.

right. why should someone want to define their own aesthetic?

And he's STILL not a good director of fight sequences. Batman should be like a fast and furious martial artist when he fights, not a MMA street thug in a dark costume. It's all plain punches and kicks with Bale/Nolan.

maybe because nolan wants to show how a dude without super natural powers could actually kick the shit out of people. this complaint to me sounds like a fan of the WWE wondering why they don't do the supa fly snuccka during UFC fights.

Bane is awesome in this shit. I just wish they kinda did the cartoon thing where his suit pumped him full of insane adrenaline and he kinda Hulked out... but this was certainly good enough evil.

"wish they kinda did the cartoon thing" i guess this pretty much wraps up why you dont understand this particular trilogy.

the definition of , well done.

1. I disagree that the moments have greater impact the way Nolan shoots them. My point is that he misses the mark multiple times BECAUSE he cuts away from the central focus of the shot at too many odd times. It's not holding anyone's hand to illustrate the movie's plot comprehensively. Darren Aronofsky chooses some odd angles and unique lengths of visual storytelling AND leaves stuff to the imagination, ultimately achieving his objectives much more effectively, I think. Hell, 'Sin City' is way better at minimal visuals with maximum impact and original camera work, and maintains its own separate aesthetic perfectly. This style is just not perfect like people proclaim.

2. Nolan's aesthetic for the Batman universe has a variety of flaws that I like to discuss. Some of y'all praise this franchise like it's "the greatest comic book achievement of all time" and I HAVE TO repeatedly and violently disagree. When they get it RIGHT, like Heath Ledger did, then I applaud. When they fuck up, like half of Batman/Bruce Wayne's entire essence, then I will

3. It's a blockbuster comic book action movie, and you are telling me I'm at fault for wanting more style in the combat sequences? Were you one of the people that enjoyed the last Superman movie because it had virtually no violence in it? LOL. Get real, brother. The Wachowski brothers might have crashed the Matrix franchise into the fucking shitter, but at least THEY knew how to film a punch to the face that felt shocking. A whole genre of visual cinematography spawned from some of their character's combat sequences. Neither Batman's fights nor Batman's gadgets are utilized to their full potential in Nolan's imagining, I say.

There's a reason that it's so fucking ill that Jack Nicholson's Joker says: "where does he get those wonderful toys?" in the original Batman movie, and it's such a fresh line. Bale's Batman barely registers the same amount of fun with his fights or his Utility Belt.

4. You DO realize that you are somewhat also suggesting that a man wearing a batsuit isn't cartoonish in some way. And LOL, as if me requesting they honor the source material in some tiny way is MY failing to understand the movie. Fucking laughable.

There are good and bad things to say about every movie, including these. Get off your high horse, son and then peep the fact that I give this movie PROPS for having a better Batcave, and fixing most of the problems of the last 2 movies.

they should have mentioned you-know-who in some kind of ILL way though. Peace.

[Spartan]

How did Ratner get a mention in this thread?

[Kalistoga]

sooooo...I'm gonna be that guy and ask...

how does he get from the pit to Gotham, shaved face and all? how does he have time to create that fire bat signal on the bridge?

[Moolah]

Mindbender, get your tranny ass out of this thread.

Movie was pretty great. Ending was good. Bane raped hard. I also don't understand how

Bale got from the hole in whereever the fuck the hole was back to Gotham (was it another country?). Dude had nothing on him, and he had no way of contacting Alfred to bail his ass out. Also, Gotham had been completely shut down right, no bridge access or anything.

[Gregg Popabitch]

Hey, what's wrong with Batman Returns? That movie re-imagined a beautiful comic book landscape and turned it into a reality. There aren't many comic book movies that are able to capture that on to film imo.

[Mindbender Futurama]

sooooo...I'm gonna be that guy and ask...

how does he get from the pit to Gotham, shaved face and all? how does he have time to create that fire bat signal on the bridge?

yep. it's things like THAT which make the movie imperfect, and Nolan's editing style kinda adds to the "how did that just happen? I'm not gonna just accept it because it seems semi-realistic" factor.

also :blaowarrow: I been into Batman for decades, and I love comic book movies. I ain't even talking ABOUT naan of y'all, I'm talking about the movie, which you guys should be too. Don't watch me, watch TV screens. I ain't going nowhere if I don't want to.

wonder how that Colorado massacre is going to affect the first weekend box-office numbers of 'The Dark Knight Rises', cause it's in the top 3 great movies of summer 2012.

[Kid That's Lifeless]

You are the worst.

Movie rules. Dark Knight > this >> Batman Begins

[Gregg Popabitch]

also :blaowarrow: I been into Batman for decades, and I love comic book movies. I ain't even talking ABOUT naan of y'all, I'm talking about the movie, which you guys should be too. Don't watch me, watch TV screens.

or the movie screens. However, that's a part of the problem though.

You saw each one of these movies but you were expecting it to conform to your own ideals of Batman instead of expecting a new story or spin on it. You weren't just watching the movies but watching yourself as a kid watch the movies and expecting the same things.

Frank Miller, Grant Morrison, Alan Moore, Loeb, Starlin, etc all went into the the comics putting their own spin on the legend just like Nolan, Burton, Schumacher, etc have.

I remember you having a beef with the way Nolan's batmobile looked. Well, if you were into Miller's comics at all, Nolan's batmobile are very similar to his. In fact, that is one beef I've had with the Burton/Schumacher movies is that, even though they are very impressive aesthetically, they in no way can compare to the multitude of things that the Nolan batmobile could do.

I can respect someone not liking these films. Not everyone is going to like everything. However, considering your opinions from the Dark Knight and Batman Begins threads, I don't feel you are keeping an open mind which is why most people in this thread are treating you like a leper. Judge films and stories on their own merits.

[Spiccoli]

And LOL, as if me requesting they honor the source material in some tiny way is MY failing to understand the movie. Fucking laughable.

I wont get into this too far because Poppabitch broke this down well. but what is this source material you hold so holy? are you referring to pre-DC iterations of batman? because in reality that "source material" would make for a really shitty film. to me your beef with this series represents a fundamental misunderstanding about how comic book series have worked in the last 50+ years. none of the great artists/writers in the genre have honored a "source material" in the way that you have for some reason expected out of nolan's interpretation. for me, and many others, to see nolan simply regurgitate the interpretation of this universe in the same way that another artist already has would make the effort worthless.

in short, great comic series dont "honor the source material" they conscientiously try to re-imagine the elements. that is exactly what has made comics so great over time.

[Mindbender Futurama]

And LOL, as if me requesting they honor the source material in some tiny way is MY failing to understand the movie. Fucking laughable.

I wont get into this too far because Poppabitch broke this down well. but what is this source material you hold so holy? are you referring to pre-DC iterations of batman? because in reality that "source material" would make for a really shitty film. to me your beef with this series represents a fundamental misunderstanding about how comic book series have worked in the last 50+ years. none of the great artists/writers in the genre have honored a "source material" in the way that you have for some reason expected out of nolan's interpretation. for me, and many others, to see nolan simply regurgitate the interpretation of this universe in the same way that another artist already has would make the effort worthless.

in short, great comic series dont "honor the source material" they conscientiously try to re-imagine the elements. that is exactly what has made comics so great over time.

nah, that's not entirely true at all, bro.
it's about them taking the RIGHT parts and hitting the right notes from the original versions.

you can't hold that argument at all when I bring up 'Watchmen', which painstakingly struggled to stay true to the source material for the majority of the film, which is one reason why it was so completely fucking amazing.

I don't know if you collected these comics, but only the slightest alterations can be made to the origins without them BASTARDIZING IT LIKE MICHAEL BAY HAS DONE TO 'TRANSFORMERS'. Sam Raimi making Spiderman shoot webs out of his wrists was not much of a problem to me and it actually made more sense than the comic did in some ways, so we accepted that change, yes. But changing the source material from TMNT to 'Alien Mutant Ninja Turtles'?! FUCK THAT SHIT, SON.

it's a delicate balance, and not every director gets them all right. Nolan made some epic movies, but he fucked up Batman, to me. I hope the next incarnation of Batman has a ~slight~ sense of humor. There was clever brilliance and wit in the comic books that in this depressed-ass version of Batman by Bale, just doesn't exist.

having mature discussions where people don't agree, but learn from each other anyways is cool, isn't it? I think so.

also :blaowarrow: I been into Batman for decades, and I love comic book movies. I ain't even talking ABOUT naan of y'all, I'm talking about the movie, which you guys should be too. Don't watch me, watch TV screens.

or the movie screens. However, that's a part of the problem though.

You saw each one of these movies but you were expecting it to conform to your own ideals of Batman instead of expecting a new story or spin on it. You weren't just watching the movies but watching yourself as a kid watch the movies and expecting the same things.

Frank Miller, Grant Morrison, Alan Moore, Loeb, Starlin, etc all went into the the comics putting their own spin on the legend just like Nolan, Burton, Schumacher, etc have.

I remember you having a beef with the way Nolan's batmobile looked. Well, if you were into Miller's comics at all, Nolan's batmobile are very similar to his. In fact, that is one beef I've had with the Burton/Schumacher movies is that, even though they are very impressive aesthetically, they in no way can compare to the multitude of things that the Nolan batmobile could do.

I can respect someone not liking these films. Not everyone is going to like everything. However, considering your opinions from the Dark Knight and Batman Begins threads, I don't feel you are keeping an open mind which is why most people in this thread are treating you like a leper. Judge films and stories on their own merits.

I AM keeping an open mind. I'm a Batman LOVER. I have the original 'Death in the Family' series that killed Robin from 1986.

I don't give a fuck that people don't like my opinion, it's still valid criticism. In every movie ever made, there's someone who doesn't like it. Sure, I LOVE 'Batman: The Dark Knight Returns', but that takes place in the far future where Batman is a essentially a senior citizen, and him having a Hummer Batmobile makes sense. This one isn't that bad as a fantasy vehicle in an action movie, but there's not much finesse to it, which is what I liked most about Tim Burton's re-imagining of the Batmobile.

I prefer this

over this

that's just me.

I DO judge the Nolan Batman movies on their own merits. I have seen them all in the theaters on the first weekend, all 3. I study the production and marketing of the movies. I ain't no hater. But Christian Bale is CERTAINLY not the best Batman there is, fighting-wise, and he is CERTAINLY not the best Bruce Wayne there is, emotional depth-wise. The movies themselves? Good at times. But I still don't like them.

YES I will concede: Nolan succeeded in bringing a palpable level of reality to the Batman universe in ways that NO other Batman director has quite ever done. But in the process, he removed EVERY single element of comic
book magic from the character, and I don't like it. 'Avengers' just showed everyone how to put superheros, puny humans, demi-gods, and a green mutant monster on screen at the same time and STILL portray a semblance of realism.

I still don't call 'Illmatic' the perfect album because it's too short for me. My opinion is just as valid as anyone else's, and we should all be able to maturely discuss our differences of opinion and why. I don't tune out anyone who says they love this new Batman. I just logically state why I don't feel the exact same. That shouldn't be a problem, should it? No.
There are some flaws in 'The Usual Suspects' and if someone doesn't like that movie, it's hard to comprehend... but fair enough if someone feels that way.

[alpha]

MINDBENDER KEEP YOUR DUMBASS OUT OF THIS THREAD

[Gregg Popabitch]

if you loved the dark knight returns so much, you'd remember that the tank version of the batmobile that the senior citizen batman had was actually made and used in the past and he brought it out again for what he had to do at the time.

but i'm not here to attack your love of the comics or whether you are a true fan or none of that. Even someone who has never read the comics or seen the previous movies in his or her life should be able to appreciate what Nolan is trying to do with these films.

the comic books shouldn't matter nor should the previous movies before this when looking at this movie on it's own. The only things that should remain the same are the basic elements that make bruce/batman himself: his rich ass parents died and the face that he becomes a masked vigilante because of it. Also, his rogue gallery.

Comparing The Avengers to Dark Knight Rises is ridiculous. And not because one movie is better than the other. It's because there are two completely different things being attempted here. The Avengers is a comic book in film form. Nolan isn't trying to give Batman a semblance of realism. There is barely a sense of fantasy in these films at all. They are an example of what if Batman actually existed in this world and through that he was able to explore humanistic themes and ethical quandaries that The Avengers (and most super hero movies) could never hope to. That isn't to say that I like TDKR more than The Avengers (which I saw three times). I still want to let TDKR soak in and I also plan on watching it again on IMAX on Wednesday.

[the dead poet]

I still found it really hard to understand bane.

[Moolah]

MINDBENDER KEEP YOUR DUMBASS OUT OF THIS THREAD

[Mindbender Futurama]

Moolah, I bet you aren't even a Batman fan like that. YOU leave, bitches :clarenceboddiker:

[the dead poet]

MINDBENDER KEEP YOUR DUMBASS OUT OF THIS THREAD

[ric]

Mindbender, get your tranny ass out of this thread.

Movie was pretty great. Ending was good. Bane raped hard. I also don't understand how

Bale got from the hole in whereever the fuck the hole was back to Gotham (was it another country?). Dude had nothing on him, and he had no way of contacting Alfred to bail his ass out. Also, Gotham had been completely shut down right, no bridge access or anything.

i dont know if this has been answered but heres a shot

the jail was in another country, for sure. but remember, the thing about bruce wayne is that hes A) well traveled B) resourceful in his travels. after all, howd he go anywhere all that time before the first one? its not like he was in contact with alfred then either. and the thing is, is that sequence covers a large period of time, so its not like its not happening.and he gets back in the city because A) hes frigging batman who can for fuck sure get into his own city and shit. and i like the fact they didnt explain it. its totally unnecessary as its not really part of the personal journey.

just my two cents

[perlman]

All the black people in the theater I saw it at seemed most impressed by the Bat Bike. They would go wooooooooooo! Everytime it was on screen. Also when Neeson showed up on screen they all whispered Leeeam Neeeeson. It was weird.