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Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:14 am**

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:36 am**

@afronaut
allright. i guess i can see a little cartoony. i disagree, but i sort of see it. the thing about that scene though is that its meant to menace, right? hes a smart guy and shit who surrounds himself with people he can manipulate and will throw down well enough that he is basically the king pin up in the towers despite his appearance, etc. and the way he laughs, its like the jim cary grinch the way he curls his lips up like that, that is definitely some on purpose profile shot shit. its devilish. hes drawn like the devil in a bowtie and he plays his part excellently and i dont think its anymore cartoonish than the devil is in Master and Margarita, for example. its a caricature and clearly a place to run your devices, etc through but it doesnt seem cartoony. my chick would literally shudder sometimes when he was on the screen (lily white jew girl ha)

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:58 am**

I feel like the writers want us to know he isnt your "average" street tough, he's educated and meticulous, etc. I felt they did the whole "not your average" thing better with Stringer, Avon and Omar. Having Muzone argue with Lamar over Harpers' to make essentially the same point just felt a little heavy handed in comparison.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:47 am**

At first Brother Mouzone felt too much of a character that greatly contrasted the 'realness' of the show but when I rewatched the show I began to like him as The Afronaut said the writers probably wanted the audience to know that he isn't your average hitman and such.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:04 pm**

I just started another marathon because of this thread. Probably the 10th one by now.

I'm also gonna try to squeeze in Heat - it's been a good 5 years since I've seen that flick.

Yeah, I'm not gonna find time to watch any Whitey Herzog movies this year.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:08 pm**

roy if you're fast forwarding through the talkier bits of heat you'll likely end up fastforwarding Herzog's entire filmography

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:33 pm**

drizzle wrote:roy if you're fast forwarding through the talkier bits of heat you'll likely end up fastforwarding Herzog's entire filmography

Saying that I fast forward through the "talkier bits" is inaccurate, because most of the dialogue is tremendous. I fast forward through the soap opera shit, and that's only on repeat viewings.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:34 pm**

I'm having a hard time understanding how someone can watch "The Wire" regularly, call themselves a fan yet be baffled by Mouzone's character.

DOES NOT COMPUTE.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:40 pm**

Depends on how youre using the word "baffled" in that sentence.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:46 pm**

Sure, dude.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:53 pm**

dictionary.com wrote:Baffle - to confuse, bewilder, or perplex

Don't really see anybody saying they were confused about Muzone. Just saying.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:12 pm**

The Afronaut wrote:
dictionary.com wrote:Baffle - to confuse, bewilder, or perplex
Don't really see anybody saying they were confused about Muzone. Just saying.

Here are some quotes from you and others in this thread expressing confusion and bewilderment over Mouzone. You can also read from page nine to this post:

EMCEE DARTH MALEK wrote:mouzone is wack and retarded

EMCEE DARTH MALEK wrote:he didn't fit well into the show. shoulda been a character in boondocks.

Moolah wrote: To me the acting from Brother is unbelievably corny. The robotic delivery of his lines and the non-subtle big word every now and then comes across as extremely forced. Just a really weak character imho, I'm surprised to see a few people defending him.

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The Afronaut wrote:
Moolah wrote:Just a really weak character imho, I'm surprised to see a few people defending him.
This. As "real" as pretty much EVERY other character on The Wire played, Muzone stuck out like a sore thumb. Just seemed contrived as hell.

The presence of "Farrakhan with a gun" (which is a pretty accurate synopsis in my opinion) just seemed forced in The Wire's very gritty and "real" environment.

The Afronaut wrote:
Moolah wrote:<object width="420" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q5VxvF7DaCw?ve ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q5VxvF7DaCw?version=3&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>
1:16-1:55 tells the tale.

Comic book shit.

The Afronaut wrote:For the record I'm not saying Muzone wasnt a great character from an objective standpoint. He was badass no doubt.

My issue was that he did not fit believably into the world of the The Wire.

See also: Surviving a 3 story drop with only relatively minor leg injuries.

ThaJim2 wrote: I thought I was the only one that did not care for Muzone. He was the one cat that just never seemed to fit the world of the wire. It was almost comic book on how everyone was scared of him just by name.

If his arrival on the scene caused that much confusion and bewilderment it makes one wonder how much else of the series was lost on people.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:35 pm**

The Afronaut wrote:Muzone stuck out like a sore thumb. Just seemed contrived as hell.

Afronaut wrote:The presence of "Farrakhan with a gun" (which is a pretty accurate synopsis in my opinion) just seemed forced in The Wire's very gritty and "real" environment.

The Afronaut wrote:My issue was that he did not fit believably into the world of the The Wire.

Employee wrote:If his arrival on the scene caused that much confusion and bewilderment it makes one wonder how much else of the series was lost on people.

Where's the confusion and/or bewilderment? Looks pretty straight forward from here.

Also, the character was D-Level minor in the grand scheme of things, so even if anyone was bewildered at his arrival, assuming that means other aspects of the show might be lost on them seems like a bit of a jump.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:43 pm**

The Afronaut wrote:Also, the character was D-Level minor in the grand scheme of things,

Yeah; no. He was the only character to ever successfully track down and, mano y mano (nh), confront Omar. More importantly he single-handedly forced Barksdale to give up Bell. Additionally he was a trigger man in Bell's murder. Dismissing him as "...D-Level minor in the grand scheme of things" is not only grossly inaccurate, but it speaks further to your obvious confusion regarding the series.

The Afronaut wrote:so even if anyone was bewildered at his arrival, assuming that means other aspects of the show might be lost on them seems like a bit of a jump.

Not really.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:03 pm**

Not an exhaustive nor precise list by any means, but just to give you a rough idea of how Im looking at this:

A-Level: Avon, String, Omar, Marlo, Bubs, McNulty etc
B-Level: Carver, Colvin, Bodie, Michael etc
C-Level: Burrell, Rawls, Randy, Cutty, etc.
D-Level: Muzone, Cheese, Charles, Gus (mostly due to showing up so late in the series) etc

I do not agree that Muzone FORCED Barksdale to give up Bell. Avon had been teetering since Bell fessed up about D'Angelo. Avon recognized that Bell had fucked up royally getting Muzone involved in this shit and didnt see it as fixable and didnt have the motivation to try due to Bell's betrayal.

Obviously, Muzone's ability to track down Omar struck more of a chord with you than it did with me. Omar saw him as an equal, which I definitely understand is significant, but compared to the other foes Omar faced throughout the series he and Muzone's showdown (and subsequent Marvel Team-Up) didnt make much of a impact on me.

Point: Muzone or no Muzone, Stringer ends up dead. I called Muzone D-Level minor, because he has no heavily significant sway in the outcome of series in my opinion.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:17 pm**

The Afronaut wrote:I do not agree that Muzone FORCED Barksdale to give up Bell. Avon had been teetering since Bell fessed up about D'Angelo. Avon recognized that Bell had fucked up royally getting Muzone involved in this shit and didnt see it as fixable and didnt have the motivation to try due to Bell's betrayal.

What are you talking about? Barksdale's motivation for being Mouzone's bitch was rooted in only two things: 1) Saving his own life from getting blasted out of the barber's chair he was sitting in and 2) His NY connection. How is that not abundantly clear?

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:48 pm**

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:10 pm**

The Afronaut wrote:<object width="420" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WNEj2cMPTvQ?ve ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WNEj2cMPTvQ?version=3&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

Call me crazy man, but Avon does not look shook in this scene.

He hears Muzone out, tries to bargin, recognizes that he cant, and accepts the outcome.

I strongly encourage you to watch from 1:15 on. And your description of the scene is plain wrong. At 1:15 he gets visibly shook; then goes on to mumble and bemoan his deal with Prop Joe. Mouzone basically tells him to shut the fuck up in the most gentlemanly way possible and Avon starts copping pleas: nearly stumbling over all his words, offering money in exchange for Bell's life, out of sorts, appearing intimidated. Then Mouzone goes the fuck in with the NY leverage and Barksdale buckles.

That was not the benign negotiation you described.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:15 pm**

Employee wrote:I strongly encourage you to watch from 1:15 on. And your description of the scene is plain wrong.

I guess we'll just have to call this a difference of interpretation, but let me say this and be done with this particular debate:

In my opinion, the point that causes the "change in demeanor" @ 1:15 on the part of Avon is the revelation of Bell's betrayal. (Avon mumbles "that Proposition Joe package" which is where all of this started.) But is NOT fear of Muzone shooting him while he is in the barber's chair.

Basically Avon realizes that his man 50 grand has got himself into a situation that he may not be able to get out of, hence Avon offering money - if youll note, the money is not offered "respectfully", its offered more as a last ditch effort to save Bell.

As you noted, once Muzone makes it clear that it is not about money and Barksdale's NY connect will be compromised unless he gives up Bell, he reluctantly does so.

Ill leave it at that, but hopefully my fandom is no longer in question at least.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:53 pm**

A two page debanger about a character that had maybe 30 minutes of total screen time.

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:18 am**

Grantlands seedings are fucking retarded. How is bubs a 7 seed???

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:33 am**

yeah i rewatched that and avon doesn't seem shook to me. anyway the question is not whether mouzone is a badass within the context of the show. obv that's what they're going for. i'm saying the character didn't fit in well.

it's an interesting case cause i don't think there's any other character people would be so divided on. how about that fat dude in homicide? i love that guy nh. valcheck=the nigga you love to hate.

you know who was fucking annoying. weebay's son. little wack shithead.

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:59 pm**

EMCEE DARTH MALEK wrote:you know who was fucking annoying. weebay's son. little wack shithead.

I cant really blame Namon for how he was.

Bodie said it best after he met Namon's Moms "...Now I see why you are how you are..." (Paraphrasing)

While searching for the actual quote I stumbled upon this blog. Pretty funny list.

http://toptenbygentlemen.wordpress.com/ ... %E2%80%9D/

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:07 pm**

Employee is better at watching the wire than anyone else is.

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:52 pm**

top 5 biggest clownz

naman
duqie
ziggy
cheese
white crackhead

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:24 pm**

^^ No love for Frog?

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Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:37 pm**

How is Duqwan a "clown"? His arc is one of the most heartbreaking of the series.

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:04 pm**

EMCEE DARTH MALEK wrote:top 5 biggest clownz

naman
duqie
ziggy
cheese
white crackhead

Why would Duqwan be up for consideration? And even if he was in the discussion, a relatively obscure character like Orlando would straight wax him.

Prez and Herc would have to be on a Top 5 list of Wire clowns.

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:14 pm**

i gave more weight to people who were bigger in the show. orlando i barely remembered.

duquan didn't get a fair shake in life. but michael was in the same situation. I think these two are intentionally contrasted. duqie can't be like mike he's too soft. but he sees a way out and he doesn't take it. hittin up presbo for money & then bailing to go shoot up. wack clown move.

prez starts out as a clown but then redeems himself as a teacher. in the end he's winning. same with herc. as a cop he was just a headbuster, but in the end he's pointguard on team jew.

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:21 pm**

EMCEE DARTH MALEK wrote: duquan didn't get a fair shake in life. but michael was in the same situation. I think these two are intentionally contrasted. duqie can't be like mike he's too soft. but he sees a way out and he doesn't take it. hittin up presbo for money & then bailing to go shoot up. wack clown move

Good God.

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