CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

[blastmaster]

The announce team, which is an extension of Vince, is one of the worst things about Raw right now. Watching NXT, Lucha Underground and the Tokyo show make the current team look and sound awful. They genuinely don't know how to sell the product.

[Brougham33]

Agreed, always wondered if Vince sees the announce team as the last aspect of the product he has the vise grip on.

So the one bit of news coming out of Raw is that Seth is in the title match. Which to me means Seth is likely walking out with the belt, but can't call it for sure, seems strange not to have Brock walk into Mania with the belt.

Rollins Wins:
Bryan vs Rollins
Rollins vs Reigns vs Ambrose

Both options are great imo.

Cena Wins:
Cena vs Bryan II
Cena vs Reigns

The Bryan matchup is final closure from Summerslam, but I honestly wouldn't mind Cena vs Reigns cause it's fresh.

Lesnar wins:
Lesnar vs Bryan
Lesnar vs Reigns
Lesnar vs Taker?

Reigns matchup is easily the worst option here, the other two matches would have the stadium buzzing.

[mike eagle]

yeah i know the announcing is mostly puppetry but that jbl thing felt weirdly personal

i dont understand why they keep putting bray over ambrose clean. like i know they're trying to keep bray strong but it seems like such a waste to have a strong face like ambrose lose clean.

at this point the ascension needs to denounce their gimmick on air. the current iteration is completely hopeless. new day needs to do something soon too.

stop making reigns talk. he's not good at it. he's really not good at it. hide that shit, please.

get sting, bryan, and brock involved in programming soon so something matters. who gives a shit if ryback is fired? fuck ryback. decide on ziggler. give him something to do other than lose the title every two weeks. give the goddamned man a program. make this shit matter somehow. rowan was a creepy tweener with wyatt, then a stalker heel, then a genius face, and is now fired in like 2 months. jesus.

[battlecatmeowstab212]

I just don't even get who the Ascension is supposed to appeal to? They dis two of the most beloved teams in wrestling history, but those two team's member last wrestled for the company 21 and 11 years ago. They didn't even mention a team a younger/newer fan would be familiar with. Further, they're doing this their second week out. Like, can you imagine Ryback dissing Goldberg that fresh out the gate?

And they're only destroying heels and heel-ish jobbers.

While I'm all for destroying jobbers in squash matches to make someone look great, they're neither cheating nor doing anything particularly brutal.

And they look like they're cosplaying God of War.

Heh?

I absolutely love their entrance though. For all we complain about what's wrong with the company right now, the Titantron/entrance presentations for Ascension, Luke Harper and Erick Rowan are each among the best the company's ever done.

I also like the new Raw opening, but I'm a sucker for soaring synths in my hip-hop.

[Brougham33]

Those soaring synths are the freshest thing on the whole show right now. And I really try not to be too negative, it's the same company that put together Mania 30 and the NXT specials, but I just read the Smackdown spoilers:

Sin Cara defeated Bad News Barrett in a non-title match. Sin Cara won clean.

[Kalel]

yeah i know the announcing is mostly puppetry but that jbl thing felt weirdly personal

i dont understand why they keep putting bray over ambrose clean. like i know they're trying to keep bray strong but it seems like such a waste to have a strong face like ambrose lose clean.

at this point the ascension needs to denounce their gimmick on air. the current iteration is completely hopeless. new day needs to do something soon too.

stop making reigns talk. he's not good at it. he's really not good at it. hide that shit, please.

get sting, bryan, and brock involved in programming soon so something matters. who gives a shit if ryback is fired? fuck ryback. decide on ziggler. give him something to do other than lose the title every two weeks. give the goddamned man a program. make this shit matter somehow. rowan was a creepy tweener with wyatt, then a stalker heel, then a genius face, and is now fired in like 2 months. jesus.

Geez dude, do you even like wrestling?

How is Reigns gonna ever get better on the mic if he doesn't keep doing it? How is he supposed to develop a character? Rock's mic skills weren't all that when he was just Rocky Maivia. Give him time.

Ascension have only been on TV two weeks and they've already drawn nuclear heat which is what I thought heels were supposed to do. I agree that I don't see the point with JBL giving them shit, but JBL hasn't been truly heelish in his announcing either. They aren't a boring team to watch in the ring they just need to get used to wrestling for larger crowds and on TV. I thought it was pretty obvious why they referenced the Road Warriors and Demolition.

Making the New Day turn heels won't do much for them, in my opinion. They haven't been around long enough, as a faction, for the audience to really connect with them so switching characters this early would be confusing and seemed rushed.

[hustler]

kalel is our resident sympathizer/apologist for the worst mic workers.

lol@god of war cosplay, apt description.

[Kalel]

Maybe I'm just more optimistic about the current state of wrestling than most fans on the internet?

[mike eagle]

Maybe I'm just more optimistic about the current state of wrestling than most fans on the internet?

dude...nxt is good. i thought last week's raw was good. i liked survivor series. i loved mania. when they do things right, they do things right. this week's raw however and a lot of creative decisions made week to week are piss poor and deserve criticism. you and i both deserve a better product than that. ascension isnt drawing nuclear heat, they're drawing nuclear apathy. reigns isnt going to get better talking more in main event programs. when rocky couldnt talk, they had him chasing the ic strap, not slated to win the royal damn rumble. as far as new day goes, if you can give me an example of a happy face gimmick slowly connecting with fans in the modern era then i will quickly redact my argument.

[battlecatmeowstab212]

Maybe I'm just more optimistic about the current state of wrestling than most fans on the internet?

Hey, I'm optimistic to the point of even liking the current commentary team, but there's just things happening that aren't just lacking direction, but going in different directions every week to the point where it's just confusing and hinders the overall enjoyment of the product.

Like, I don't even think the Ascension are supposed to be heels on the main roster. I have no idea what they're supposed to be.

And the Bellas blowoff they didn't even explain other than "Brie likes her sister now."

And Cena knows Rollins was going to break Edge's neck anyway. Edge, who assaulted Cena's father in his own house and even post retirement has done nothing but berate him in all of his appearances. Because of his retirement, he never got his come-uppens as a character, and we're supposed to be concerned for him in peril?

I'm not saying things are WCW 2000 or TNA 2013 bad, but they're hitting the reset button each and every week. To quote John Waters, "I have much more respect for bad taste than no taste."

[battlecatmeowstab212]

And Reigns was a gifted talker when he was a heel and then the badass, but they're overscripting him. He sounds more like someone trying to sound like Reigns than Reigns at this juncture.

[tehgiftofgab]

Speakin of tna, new season started tonight lol

[Kalel]

I guess I should clarify that when I mentioned pessimistic internet wrestling fans I didn't mean you guys. The reason I keep posting in this thread (the only thread on PF I actively check) is because you guys have great opinions on the current product. Its when I look at the comments on Wrestlezone posts that I start to wonder why people even watch wrestling.

as far as new day goes, if you can give me an example of a happy face gimmick slowly connecting with fans in the modern era then i will quickly redact my argument.

The Usos. They went from Superstars and Main Event wrestlers with a badass entrance that nobody cared for to tag team champs and main event players and never really changed their character. Always smiling and flying through the air. Also Bayley. No one is happier than Bayley. NO ONE.

WWE Raw (and Smack Down?) currently do seem rutterless, I agree, but I really don't mind sitting though a couple months of "WTF is this?" if eventually we get "HOLY SHIT!" moments. The Holy Shit moments always come.

[battlecatmeowstab212]

Apparently the Spanish commentary team were saying the same thing about The Ascension. I wonder if they plan on making them heels who even the announcers/authority hate or what.

[Brougham33]

So because we hate the announce team...we'll root for them? #inceptionz

And I get what Kalel is saying, we wade through the bullshit for the moments, but I think they've set a high bar in this era with the great moments (Summer of Punk, Yes movement, Shield, Lesnar, NXT) that our patience for putting up with the week to week silliness is thin.

[mike eagle]

honestly i think 3 hours of raw is just too much for the creative team. other than the main event there just seems to be no plans for anybody. and like someone said earlier apparently vince re-wrote raw right before the show started. it felt thrown together. a lot of the shit seems thrown together.

[907]

Down in Mexico on vacation, I happened to catch an episode of AAA this evening. Even without being able to understand half the commentary, it was fucking great.

[battlecatmeowstab212]

Down in Mexico on vacation, I happened to catch an episode of AAA this evening. Even without being able to understand half the commentary, it was fucking great.

Sweet, is Mexico all Mike Tenay said it would be? Are there children selling lucha masks for a nickel in the street?

[LilLeftBrain]

np: this, so may as well give it a post

[907]

Down in Mexico on vacation, I happened to catch an episode of AAA this evening. Even without being able to understand half the commentary, it was fucking great.

Sweet, is Mexico all Mike Tenay said it would be? Are there children selling lucha masks for a nickel in the street?

not so far, but I'll cop a grip of them and send one to everyone who posts in this thread if I come across any.

That fucking liar.

[Pizon]

I want one.

[Linc]

what the fuck lol

apparently he was knocked out for awhile backstage

jeff hardy is gonna die in the ring

[battlecatmeowstab212]

Jeff is so talented and capable of such breath-taking feats, I wish he didn't resort to things lie that.

Not thrilled with the results of the tna tapings either. Sucks as there's a lot of talent and compelling characters but they just can't seem to get it together.

[Kalel]

Jesus ...

[907]

Jesus ...

fuck.

[Linc]

Jeff is so talented and capable of such breath-taking feats, I wish he didn't resort to things lie that.

Not thrilled with the results of the tna tapings either. Sucks as there's a lot of talent and compelling characters but they just can't seem to get it together.

first show was pretty good, didn't read the spoilers though

[battlecatmeowstab212]

Jeff is so talented and capable of such breath-taking feats, I wish he didn't resort to things lie that.

Not thrilled with the results of the tna tapings either. Sucks as there's a lot of talent and compelling characters but they just can't seem to get it together.

first show was pretty good, didn't read the spoilers though

The end of that first show was terrible though and ruined the "new TNA" for me. They took 3 of the 6 most popular faces in the company and turned them heel for no reason for another heel-stable company-wide feud with a name that's a knock-off of a wildl popular group in another organization.

[zappy]

yeah reigns is in a tough spot, not having time to develop his mic skills. like someone said on here before (dont remember who, sorry) that's probably why he stuck with the old shield intro while rollins and ambrose moved on. the good news for reigns is that he's not really in any trouble in the mean time because he's a hit with the kids.

as far as ambrose taking clean losses to wyatt, it makes sense if you use vince vision; ambrose is golden, he can lose clean for months and still be wildly popular, while apparently wyatt has no stories in the pipeline, so keep him relevant with wins. unfortunately, that's not interesting at all.

alternate universe: at survivor series, either as bigshow is turning on cena harper turns on team authority, or after ziggler eliminates kane, harper just walks out leaving rollins and ziggler. over the next few weeks wyatt manipulates himself into the position of general manager, but makes sure to keep cena happy, since cena is the one who can bring back the authority.

not only would this have given a great storyline to wyatt, but it would have made a natural environment for the new day to debut, and would have led to a much more interesting dilemma for cena to bring back the authority (not that this would have needed to happen for a while).

honestly i think it could still fly, in a few months, maybe after wrestlemania, keep rowan as face and then have him heel turn during the big reveal. call survivor series a missed opportunity, thanks to the big show defecting etc.

basically just have a slow burn with wyatt picking on the weak and/or turning him to his side until the authority looks like the lesser of two evils, then have the authority come back and be worse than remembered or twist leave wyatt in charge.

[zappy]

man so many good promo possibilities for wyatt: re-purposing the new day motto (new day for bray wyatt), real power (having a belt vs being the one making the matches), reminding everyone how bad the authority was while basically doing the same thing by pushing cena and punishing rollins and big show (who got in the way of the planned takeover after survivor series)

i love the idea of the faces getting pushed and the heels getting punished and everyone having a really bad feeling about it because it's a heel that's making it happen. for this to really work though, before wyatt took control the wyatt family would have to be getting booed a lot more. basically make all of bray wyatt's matches squashes with low card faces, where he really messes them up, and any time wyatt gets paired up against anyone who has a chance of beating him, wyatt basically lets them pin him right away or just walks out. cue "i dont care about what's best for business, i care about what's best for bray wyatt" basically let the audience down and make them dislike him.

like i'm bored with the authority as much as the next person, but at least they get booed. even miz is getting cheers overall because of sandow. i need some goddamn heels.

[Linc]

Jeff is so talented and capable of such breath-taking feats, I wish he didn't resort to things lie that.

Not thrilled with the results of the tna tapings either. Sucks as there's a lot of talent and compelling characters but they just can't seem to get it together.

first show was pretty good, didn't read the spoilers though

The end of that first show was terrible though and ruined the "new TNA" for me. They took 3 of the 6 most popular faces in the company and turned them heel for no reason for another heel-stable company-wide feud with a name that's a knock-off of a wildl popular group in another organization.

A group with Kenny king , low ki, samoa joe and mvp as the mouthpiece is alright with me. Eric young doesn't need to be there but he was a pretty good heel in world elite and they weren't doing shit with him right now. Lashley will be a face going forward I assume so that will pick up some slack and low ki wasn't really a face anyway.

Thought the ending was fine and I fail to see how the name is in anyway a ripoff (I assume you're talking about bullet club)

I think lashley is the better champion right now as long as roode gets it back at a big event sometime in the next 6 months. (the chase is usually better tv then the reign)

let it marinate