CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

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zappy wrote:
907 wrote:
hustler wrote:
907 wrote:I'm always confused when I see people lamenting what happened to Ryder. Dn't get me wrong, it's cool that the dude got himself over and all, but he's never been ANYTHING but a total shitstain in the ring. Like, dude just can't work at all. He makes Sandow look like Rollins X D-bry, crossed with a young Dynamite Kid.

Ryder got a lot farther than he should of, based on skill alone. He was in an angle with Jern Cena, for fucks sake!
disagree. his charisma makes up for any in ring lackings. also, the charisma is much harder to teach/improve, whereas the wrestling is just a matter of practicing and learning. he's 100% self made, and to dismiss him like that is really short sighted. how many wrestlers have made it that far with literally no help?

im pretty sure you are just clouded by hate because he represents the cocky alpha male frat bro which you are completely unable to relate with. u hate the alphaera. u hate me and gucci. u hate hashtags. so obviously u hate zach ryder.
#STAYPREDICTABLE

His gimmick never bothered me, but I can't remember one good/memorable match he ever had. To me, that's what matters. To each their own, though.
when was the last time you saw him in a match that wasnt a squash or him against like kofi kingston
i cant remeber any memorable matches hes had, other than i believe he held the US title for a minute? i remember he won a belt for sure, and he was over during that time, and i was like: "good for him"

as for his move set, the broski boot looks really really good. and even when he doesnt hit it clean, they can always just do that camera angle from the other side to make it look like it connected. im not crazy about the rough ryder tho... zach attack looks way better imo, except the name just plain sucks. he should call it the jersey turnspike (its a play on words from the jersey turnpike, and since hes like the long island jersey shore bro..whatever its still a lame name but its way better than the fucking "zach attack")



ps i love this thread. where else can we get a meaningful adult conversation about the moveset of fuckin zach ryder in the year 2015. #WOOWOOWOO
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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by Brougham33 »

Long, but a really good...kinda depressing read from Dave Meltzer:

With Roman Reigns cleanly pinning Daniel Bryan in what was a hell of a main event on Fast Lane, it’s very clear that Vince McMahon is still planning on the scenario he’s probably had for probably one year, with Reigns beating Brock Lesnar at WrestleMania.

Fan reaction at the Royal Rumble, and since the Royal Rumble, largely indicated that scenario was backfiring. Forgetting about Bryan, and forgetting about skill level or being ready or even talking ability, Reigns is nowhere near as over and doesn’t feel like he has anywhere near the momentum of the babyface who is going to chase and win the title on the biggest show of the year.

What’s notable is that 21 years ago, a younger Vince McMahon was in the same position, choosing between his own hand-picked next star of the company, tall bodybuilder Lex Luger, or one of the best in-ring performers of that time, Bret Hart. Historically, Luger was far closer to what McMahon liked his champions to look like. But Hart was more popular among the fans. Faced with the crowd reaction in the laboratory setting of a big show, the fans liked Hart more than Luger when they squared off. The WrestleMania original plan, Luger beating Yokozuna to win the title, was changed to Hart. Luger’s momentum was lost, and a little over two years later, working as part of a mid-card tag team he walked out on the company. Hart became the company’s biggest star, before he was gone more than three years later.
This time, McMahon went with the original plan. It was acknowledged that Reigns wasn’t over like he should have been. So they went to work. They brought in his cousin, Dwayne Johnson, to make his Royal Rumble win even bigger. But the miscalculation of putting Bryan in the Rumble made the whole scenario backfire, and even the endorsement of Johnson didn’t matter.

The next idea was to change the original plan for Fast Lane and put Reigns vs. Bryan. There were a lot of ways to go, but the key is that they’d probably have a great match. In the final scripting, it was Reigns winning clean, and Bryan, the next day, out there with the idea he’s the representative of his fan base, telling them to cheer Reigns onto victory because he was the better man and we were all wrong and he deserves our respect. Not only that, they were put together in a tag team the next day and Reigns ever so graciously allowed Bryan to get the win, even though he did the work to set up the pin.
After the Rumble, there was a vocal protest. Did it mean anything business-wise? Well, WWE did change some plans, but in the end went right back to the original one. If a lot of people would have canceled the WWE Network, there would have been no choice but to react. Instead, far more people signed up in the two days after the show than canceled. It was a lot of noise and little action.

At Fast Lane, they were doing the same thing, just more directly. They actually put the two of them head-to-head, and the company clearly picked its favorite above the crowd favorite. This time, there was nowhere near the same reaction. People yelling about canceling and not doing so wasn’t going to work. And it was over. The audience couldn’t control the direction.

Really, I’d rather somebody wrote a book from start-to-finish rather than readers who have no real understanding of book writing trying to force changes so the little sidekick who is supposed to be a bit player gets the girl and not the handsome lead who the whole book was built around.
I learned long ago that a good promoter listens to the fans, and a great promoter completely manipulates the fans. But the idea is that both make the fans want not what they tell the promoter they want, but what the promoter wants in the first place, because he has a better grasp than they do about business.
This goes back to Paul Boesch in the 1980s. Boesch every week had his lab experiment, for most of his promoting career, 52 weeks, every Friday, he would have a show at the Sam Houston Coliseum. It takes a lot of ideas and creativity to run 52 times a year in the same building. You’re going to have some hits and some misses, and the idea is to either fool yourself with excuses on the misses, or learn from them. He told me that in the end, all the excuses are just that. If a show doesn’t draw, it’s his fault, for presenting a main event that fans didn’t want to buy tickets to see. Vince McMahon would tell the same stories, except he would use Bobo Brazil, as his conduit, with the story of the bad house, and the wrestlers, and promoters would talk about the weather or the economy or whatever competition was in town, and Bobo would calmly say that the problem is that not enough people wanted to see the main event.
Wrestling is a totally different business today. Vince McMahon still tells the Bobo Brazil story. And he doesn’t buy fake excuses. When a show does bad, that means the creative missed. He doesn’t want to hear about county fairs, movie opens, welfare checks and the day of the month, warm weather or cold weather. History has shown that NFL football, NBA playoffs and maybe the World Series or a hot Yankees-Red Sox game can hurt ratings.
But one of Boesch’s stories was about listening to the fans. In those days, a large percentage of the audience that attended the show, would buy the souvenir program. So in the 1960s, what better way is there to do direct marketing to your customer base but to put in the program a question, asking fans what match do you want to see. His job was selling tickets to those same customers. Instead of guessing what they want, just ask them directly. So he did it, and booked the match.

He never told me the names, but did say the fans wanted a match between the two most popular wrestlers in Texas at the time. It was a match they’d never see because the promoters always did babyface vs. heel. So maybe they were wrong. He booked the match. The gate sucked. And the lesson was learned. If you deliver exactly what the fans ask for, you probably won’t do very well. It’s better to create a scenario, and convince them to buy what you think most of them will pay to see.

Over the years, Vince McMahon has handpicked a number of champions with the idea they’d be the face of the company. Hulk Hogan was a big success. Ultimate Warrior seemed like he had all the momentum in the world, but as soon as he got the title, it didn’t work. With hindsight we can point to the excuses, Hogan’s manipulation after the match, no viable contenders set up, or simply bad timing with the idea that any face who followed Hogan would probably fail by comparison. He went back to Hogan, although it was clear McMahon had already made the choice that with Hogan approaching 40, he had to make a new Hogan.

I don’t think McMahon at that point saw Bret Hart as more than a bridge, a temporary thing until the next big thing came along. The next pick was Lex Luger. That was blown based on timing. They creating a scenario where he had to win at a certain time, they waited too long, and the momentum was lost. And given his history elsewhere, he probably wouldn’t have been a success if they pulled the trigger at the right time. He was too much like Hogan, and Hogan was still in people’s minds.

The next pick was Kevin Nash. He was the biggest of all, talked well and was good looking. But business was terrible during that period and Nash was clearly not the answer as the focal point. Nash wasn’t at the level of Hart or Shawn Michaels, the other two top stars, inside the ring. That was a clear factor at the time, even though there were plenty of people better than most of McMahon’s other champions when they held the title. Warrior was outright terrible unless he had a great heel to carry him. Hogan had a patterned relatively short match that worked, more because Hogan had incredible charisma, which Nash didn’t have even though he was bigger than Hogan and had better hair.

Then Shawn Michaels, also not a success. Then Bret Hart, but McMahon got buyers remorse on his contract. Then came Steve Austin, who carried the company during its most successful period in history. Dwayne Johnson came up during the Austin era and carried things when Austin was injured. The Golden Period ended due to two factors. They made the huge mistake of turning Austin heel, and Johnson showed so much charisma in wrestling that Hollywood called, and he had far more acting range than Hogan and he was wrestling less-and-less.
That led to the modern era. The company fell greatly with HHH as its top star, but he became a family member. But the company remained profitable because this was the first period in history when they were truly the monopoly promotion. The first hand-picked successor was to be Brock Lesnar. Lesnar was the best athlete and toughest guy ever put into that position. But he wasn’t strong on promos. He was put together with Paul Heyman in a pairing that worked, but the two were broken up and Lesnar was turned face far too early, then turned back. The company also suffered from Johnson appearing less and less frequently and Austin retiring. Eventually the decision was made that Lesnar wasn’t the guy, and he quit the promotion shortly thereafter. Randy Orton came next. He had a long string as a main eventer, a very good wrestler with the right look. Orton had a five year run where he statistically did well above usual business when he was on top, but he did not have the charisma to be a real mover as the top guy. He still was always kept strong because he had the right look and skill set. Actually Dave Bautista surpassed Orton in the fans’ eyes, and as a business mover. Bautista was a huge success with his face turn in 2005. He was a big guy with a great physique and good look, and reasonably good in the ring, far from the best, but certainly when in with the best could be in a quality main event. While his feud with HHH was probably the most successful of the current era, he was quickly surpassed in popularity and momentum by John Cena.
Here’s the thing. In every single case, even with Luger and Nash, they had momentum and the fan base treated them like they were a major star on the rise before the big moment came, or in the case with Luger, never came. There was never the totally lukewarm reaction to a full-year title build that lost momentum months before. Many failed when put in the spotlight, but none came in with no momentum.

In almost every case historically, even the most stubborn promoter in this scenario would chalk it up to not always being right.
Why is this different? One year ago, McMahon made a move that nobody expected. He had Lesnar beat The Undertaker. Nothing in the company, not the title, somebody’s trademark hair or someone’s position had the value of the decades long streak. It was the institution. It would lead to the most shocking moment in modern wrestling history and it could only be done once. There may never be another moment at that level.
The idea from the start was that moment would be used to create the new top star of the company. Lesnar would beat Undertaker, demolish Bryan, and be the unstoppable heel force, and Reigns would succeed where even Cena couldn’t. It made all the sense in the world a year ago. Reigns was young, looked great, and The Shield were the hottest new act in years. Reigns had been presented as the killer and the tough one in the group. The idea was to use The Shield to get him over, and it worked better than expected. He was an instant headliner being put out on his own. But whether it was timing, the injury, Bryan, or people wanting more substance from the top guy, it didn’t work.

Why McMahon was so married to the idea may have been that by beating Undertaker, and having a guy who brought the fan base into a different dimension of stronger reality like Lesnar, it created a unique time to make the new face, figuring it was time make Cena the babyface legend and not the guy in the championship picture, essentially what Bruno was to Bob Backlund and what he wanted Hogan to be to Warrior and later Bret Hart but it never worked out.
Abandoning Reigns would have historically made the Undertaker loss almost for naught and there was no way to recreate that storyline. Even though Bryan was the hottest act at the time, at no point did he ever consider Bryan as the guy. He was too physically small and not good looking enough. And that was the problem. He got hung up on the factors and not the end result.

Even though Bryan’s chant made it appear he was more over than he was, and he wasn’t a business mover on the level of Cena, he was significantly ahead of Reigns with far less help in presentation. But even with that, the argument is Reigns was younger, and with his look, had more long-term potential. Based on traditional qualities, he did. But the appreciation of wrestling ability as a quality may be higher than ever now, and perhaps the most important modern qualities are wrestling, talking and connecting, and Bryan was far superior in all of them.
What could have been different? We’ll never know. He was the guy picked by the fans, but the company never saw it. Everyone knows the debate to death.

What McMahon forgot is that every category, whether it’s wrestling ability, talking ability, likeability, looks, size, physique, height, perceived toughness, athletic ability and gimmick all go into how fans will react to different wrestlers. But they are all just categories.
There have been good looking guys who couldn’t draw women. Why? I don’t know or care, but they didn’t. There have been some guys who weren’t good looking who could. There were guys who looked physically like Greek Gods who did draw, and others who didn’t. Some short guys caught on. Some tall guys did. What is the best predictor of being over? The ability to get over. What is the best predictor of being able to draw on top? Being put on top with no shackles on your hands and wrists and ticket sales increase.

Bryan didn’t fit into the traditional categories of what draws. Small great wrestlers historically were guys who worked the second match. Except there was also Ray Stevens. Guys who looked like slobs usually made the business look bad to outsiders, and would be a disaster if put on top. Except there was Dusty Rhodes. Short acrobatic guys with minimal wrestling ability and zero psychology can’t draw a dime. Except Argentina Rocca carried Madison Square Garden’s business on his back for eight years. At an NWA meeting in the 70s, Terry Funk spoke about how the keys to the business were promos and if you couldn’t talk well, you weren’t going to be able to draw. Ed Farhat then spoke and said that there isn’t a person in this room who has drawn more money than I have (and there wasn’t), and I’ve never said a word on an interview.

But almost nobody has ever caught on at his level while being pushed at the level he was being pushed at. I don’t know if there is any promoter at any period of time who would have seen his reactions and not at least put him in a top spot as an experiment. Bill Watts once, during the heyday of the Rock & Roll Express, had his doubts about putting Ricky Morton in a Superdome main event with Ric Flair, but it appeared Morton was over like crazy. When he booked the match and gave it a full push, and it drew about 10,000 fans, considered a lukewarm house, better than some, less than Flair did with others, his conclusion was that fans bought Morton in a tag team situation with anyone, but not as a single going after the world title. But if it had drawn, he wouldn’t have come to that conclusion that he was too small to draw on top challenging for the big belt.

Don’t get me wrong. Many promoters would see Bryan’s weaknesses and think it wouldn’t work. Some would probably like him a lot and give it the benefit of the doubt if it was close. Others would look at it differently. But everyone would try. And they did try last year with Bryan, but in his coming back from an injury, every other top promoter would have pushed his comeback a lot harder and the former babyface champion who was super popular and successful a year earlier, and never lost, was not getting his legs cut off before he got a shot at the title. If it didn’t work, sure, but it would at least be given that shot.
But then again, what other company, besides the dying version of WCW, would have one of its stars as a key participant in the World Series parade, and never even mention it on their television show?

We’ll never know what Bryan’s true top potential was, and what the staying power of his popularity would have been. He’s going to have a good career. But he’ll never be the guy who carries the company. Unlike virtually everyone historically of his level of popularity, it won’t be because they tried and it failed. It will be because it was decided that the category predictors were more important than the overall result. And thus, he couldn’t be the guy, even though he was far more popular, could wrestle better and talk better and connected better than guys stronger who fared better on the list of category predictors.
But the key is, and the only constant in every era, is that all of those sub-categories and adding them up and getting a score is meaningless. There were great talkers who couldn’t draw on top. There were great ring technicians that couldn’t draw on top. There were models who couldn’t draw on top. There were small guys who couldn’t and there were great big guys with pretty faces who couldn’t. There were legitimate badasses that couldn’t.
In the end, the only thing that matters is charisma, and charisma is about crowd connection during the time and place. That’s it. Not necessarily noise. A prelim guy with a cool gimmick or the right story can get a gigantic pop. It’s the connection where you are somebody people see as being special, and can make them buy tickets, or garner more interest in your matches than all the other guys.

Bryan was the closest guy to having that one year ago, at least among the non-Cena members of the roster. He was the closest guy now, at least until Sunday, even with never being treated like it. In his case, the connection was people just liked him a lot, liked to chant with him, and it was just the right thing at the right time. Even star athletes liked having connections to him. In the end, he was never able to overcome the physical negatives to the audience of one. And I can’t think of one example historically of someone the public embraced to that level who got treated in creative at that level. Orton never had anything close to this, never sold merchandise at his level, and he was given a decade plus of protection at a level Bryan could never dream, and championship reign after championship reign. He got his WrestleMania win and had his moment and thus, it was time for someone else. Imagine if that mentality had been used for Cena or Orton a decade ago. Take Cena out of the mix and book him like a joke who almost always failed and the company would be in far worse shape than it is now. And you could easily, if you wanted, point to all kinds of flaws with Cena, but he could be on the Muscle & Fitness cover and was a great brand ambassador to the outside world, a role nobody else would have been as good at. But Bryan had that quality of likeability and seeming genuine that can’t be taught. But because of the inability to get past the physical package, something the audience had gotten past and not considered a negative years ago, his strengths, including the ability to have a match at the level that only the best historically could hit on a consistent basis, regardless of his dance partner, was squandered.
It was clear on Raw that his fan base was finally beaten after a long fight. He’s Chris Benoit after Randy Orton beat him, the guy everyone likes and respects, that everyone will want to work programs with, and whose job will be to put over the next generation of MVPs, Drew McIntyre’s, Alberto Del Rio’s and Roman Reigns, except preferably with a happy ending.

As for Reigns, what we know is that the endorsements tricks with Dwayne Johnson and Bryan won’t save the experiment. We learned that every time Johnson tried to put over Cena verbally and people turned on him. But at least with Cena, his segments drew the highest numbers most of the time, his merchandise blew away the field, they’d raise tickets prices for his shows and he’d still constantly outsell everyone else. The mixed reactions were great evidence for people who understood little about business, since Cena, while not Austin, Hogan or Sammartino, still laid golden eggs better than all but a few wrestlers in company history.
The difference with Cena is people passionately loved and hated him. Reigns is more than people just don’t care all that much either way about him. Yeah, they really hated him as the anti-Bryan. But now that he’s not that, they don’t like him all that much, and they don’t hate him all that much. He’s a cold guy going against a heel that people want to like in Lesnar. In his favor, if Lesnar is leaving, fans still may get behind him as the guy trying to save their kingdom from the traitor who sold out. If Lesnar is staying, Levi’s Stadium may provide a very disappointing backdrop as compared to New Orleans on coronation night.
But the economics are so different now that it really doesn’t matter all that much what moves are made. No idea or new personality from the new era of mid-carders promotion is drawing people from out of the usual group of viewers in.

But the biggest story on Fast Lane was the end of the Bryan story as the guy the fans willed to be the top guy and face of the company. It was a fight for a long time fans thought they could win, and they clearly lost, and more importantly, based on post-Fast Lane, they weren’t even that mad anymore. It was just acceptance.

Don’t get me wrong. He is going to be a star within the television show for maybe as long as his body holds up, and at minimum for several more years. He’s a great wrestler and he’ll be counted on to be part of big matches. He’ll get over the heels they are promoting to whomever their real headliner is. He’ll have great technical matches when called on to face talented wrestlers. He’ll give good promos. People will like him. They’ll still chant “Yes” all the time, not with the fervor they once did, but it’ll always be the new “Hiyo.” When he’s 50, he can still be used for easy heat for a new heel, he can come out, get his nostalgia chant, and lose just like Jim Duggan did. Well, except probably a whole lot more effectively.

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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by Pizon »

Brougham33 wrote:But the biggest story on Fast Lane was the end of the Bryan story as the guy the fans willed to be the top guy and face of the company. It was a fight for a long time fans thought they could win, and they clearly lost, and more importantly, based on post-Fast Lane, they weren’t even that mad anymore. It was just acceptance.
I think the towns had something to do with that. Memphis wasn't going to be riding for Bryan like that.

We'll see what happens in NY, PA, LA and Chicago. We'll see how the Wrestlemania crowd treats the main event.

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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by GUCCI CONDOMS »

hustler wrote:
zappy wrote:
907 wrote:
hustler wrote:
907 wrote:I'm always confused when I see people lamenting what happened to Ryder. Dn't get me wrong, it's cool that the dude got himself over and all, but he's never been ANYTHING but a total shitstain in the ring. Like, dude just can't work at all. He makes Sandow look like Rollins X D-bry, crossed with a young Dynamite Kid.

Ryder got a lot farther than he should of, based on skill alone. He was in an angle with Jern Cena, for fucks sake!
disagree. his charisma makes up for any in ring lackings. also, the charisma is much harder to teach/improve, whereas the wrestling is just a matter of practicing and learning. he's 100% self made, and to dismiss him like that is really short sighted. how many wrestlers have made it that far with literally no help?

im pretty sure you are just clouded by hate because he represents the cocky alpha male frat bro which you are completely unable to relate with. u hate the alphaera. u hate me and gucci. u hate hashtags. so obviously u hate zach ryder.
#STAYPREDICTABLE

His gimmick never bothered me, but I can't remember one good/memorable match he ever had. To me, that's what matters. To each their own, though.
when was the last time you saw him in a match that wasnt a squash or him against like kofi kingston
i cant remeber any memorable matches hes had, other than i believe he held the US title for a minute? i remember he won a belt for sure, and he was over during that time, and i was like: "good for him"

as for his move set, the broski boot looks really really good. and even when he doesnt hit it clean, they can always just do that camera angle from the other side to make it look like it connected. im not crazy about the rough ryder tho... zach attack looks way better imo, except the name just plain sucks. he should call it the jersey turnspike (its a play on words from the jersey turnpike, and since hes like the long island jersey shore bro..whatever its still a lame name but its way better than the fucking "zach attack")



ps i love this thread. where else can we get a meaningful adult conversation about the moveset of fuckin zach ryder in the year 2015. #WOOWOOWOO
Ryder could be interesting if he was repackaged as a heel...

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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by blastmaster »

He was just as over as Zigler a year ago. Zigs got the push. Could have been Ryder.

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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by 907 »

Just watched this week's NXT. If they want people to boo Kevin Owens (still feels weird typing that instead of Steen), he probably shouldn't be beating up Alex Riley. That dude is the worst.
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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by hustler »

907 wrote:Just watched this week's NXT. If they want people to boo Kevin Owens (still feels weird typing that instead of Steen), he probably shouldn't be beating up Alex Riley. That dude is the worst.
Image

first you shit on zach ryder. and now your going in on my boy A-Ry?!

one things for sure. i know you wouldn't...
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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by 907 »

Have you heard his commentary on NXT? It's pretty bad.
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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by battlecatmeowstab212 »

Last night of my Network free preview. I'm watching the 1995 Survivor Series which I recommend worth checking out. It really shows how weird the roster was in November 1995. By May 1996, six months later, 2/3 of the participants wouldn't even be in the company or on WWF television.

Some stray observations:

- Huge pop for a returning Mr. Perfect, didn't know his homecoming to the commentary booth was part of the PPV broadcast. I've always felt Hennig was among the most underrated color guys of all time. The McMahon/Ross/Perfect team is pretty exceptional.
- SOMEONE ACTUALLY HAS A "BRING BACK TEDDY LONG" SIGN. IN NOVEMBER 1995. IF THEY ONLY KNEW...
- Sunny and Skip as the Bodydonnas were so great as their characters, I don't see how people who actually see them perform the gimmick could call it Wrestlecrap. I think the company missed something not capitalizing on the chemistry they had with Rad Radford (a young Louie Spicoli). Looking at Hakushi, Jannetty, and 1-2-3 Kid in the same match, there's a lot of missed potential here. Crowd is also super into Barry Horowitz during his inspirational run.
- Clinton impersonator is pretty dead-on, sucks he and Pettingale were given such bafflingly uninspired and petty material.
- 1995 Goldust is so ahead of the curve. Great to watch his entrance before the broadcast team or the audience has any idea what to make of it.
- The woman's match is a must-see. Nov-Dec the WWF experiment with bringing in Joshi (aka female puroseua aka Japanese women wrestlers) and you can tell from the crowd they've never seen anything like it. Vince would scrap the entire division within a month, but hearing McMahon and Ross call this type of match.
- Undertaker's mask seemed so cool and spooky as a kid. Am I just older or did that thing age poorly?
- The WIld Card match, which a super gimmicky idea, resulted in a pretty uniquely fun match. Shame they never tried it again. It's basically a Lethal Lottery match done right.
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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by battlecatmeowstab212 »

Also, the two big stories this week that haven't been mentioned here yet (I've been in San Francisco, had a nice vacation off the internet for a few days) are:

1) Rey Mysterio has officially parted ways with the WWE.
2) Samoa Joe is officially back in ROH.

Speaking of ROH, pay-per-view line-up for tomorrow looks great:



From Ring of Honor's website:

High Stakes Four Corner Survival for the ROH World Championship
Jay Briscoe ( c ) v Michael Elgin vs Tommaso Ciampa v Hanson


As the calendar changed from 2014 into 2015 the ROH World Championship picture was one of chaos. You had former ROH World Champion Michael Elgin, Hanson and “The Sicilian Psychopath” Tommaso Ciampa all coming off impressive years with what they believed were claims as the #1 contender to ROH World Champion Jay Briscoe. The 3 challengers would do battle in a #1 contenders match on ROH Television which ended with no clear winner. That forced ROH matchmaker Nigel McGuinness into a corner. How could he pick one contender above all with no decisive winner? ROH World Champion Jay Briscoe, never one to back down from a challenge, made Nigel's decision very easy. Briscoe would let Nigel and the world know he was “All In”! He wanted all 3 men in one match live on Pay Per View. The Four Corner High Stakes Survival for the ROH World Championship is exactly as it states. Can Elgin reclaim what he says should be his? Can Hanson cap off an amazing year in ROH by winning the biggest prize in professional wrestling? Can Ciampa stay focused long enough to fulfill what he deems to be his destiny? Briscoe is bringing everything he has and will be ready for everything. The stakes are high and the richest prize in the sport is on the line in our main event at Ring of Honor's 13th Anniversary Spectacular, live on Pay Per View.

ROH World Television Championship
Jay Lethal ( c ) w/ Truth Martini vs Alberto El Patron


When this match-up is mentioned among fans it is usually prefaced as a dream match. This coming Sunday that dream match will become reality. Upon his arrival in ROH, Alberto El Patrón wanted an opportunity to speak with his fans on ROH Television. Alberto proclaimed that he was finally among the best wrestlers on the planet and he wanted a shot at the most important title in professional wrestling, the ROH World Championship. Lethal and Truth Martini took offense to this with Lethal believing that he is the measuring stick and holder of the most important title in ROH as the World Television Champion. This rivalry has taken on a personal twist as Lethal feels Alberto overlooked him as a champion. El Patrón believes Lethal has challenged his manhood, something for which Alberto will not stand. Can Lethal add Alberto El Patrón to the record list of contenders he has defeated? Can Alberto El Patrón make history by ending the historic reign of Lethal?

ROH World Tag Team Championship
reDRagon ( c ) v IWGP Jr Tag Team Champions The Young Bucks


The rivalry between reDRagon and The Young Bucks has reached literally global levels of acclaim and competition. They have battled each other in three nations while trading two internationally recognized championships between them: the IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Tag Team Championship and the ROH World Tag Team Championship. Both of these teams have become known for their cocky arrogance as well as incredible athleticism. They each truly believe they are THE best in the world. Every match between them raises the stakes even higher. After being voted the 2014 ROH Match of the Year, you know these teams are bound and determined to win in 2015 as well! With the bar already set so high, we can promise you that March 1st will be a special and unforgettable night of professional wrestling.

IWGP Heavyweight Champion “The Phenomenal” AJ Styles vs ACH

AJ Styles, the leader of the vaunted Bullet Club, has been on a roll since returning to Ring of Honor a little over a year ago. He has turned back some very tough challenges and his opponent at the 13th Anniversary Spectacular will be no different. ACH is young, hungry, rambunctious and motivated. AJ has publicly that his goal in 2015 is to win the ROH World Championship. ACH also has aspirations to capture the most important prize in professional wrestling. These two high-flying superstars will meet in Las Vegas, live on pay Per View and bring the battle into the stratosphere.

Moose vs Mark Briscoe

Though former NFL Star Moose has been in Ring of Honor for only a short time, he has made it known that ROH gold is his destiny - and he wants the chance to get it as soon as possible. The streetwise Stokley Hathaway and vivacious Veda Scott have their monster primed for gold and don’t want to wait. Recently, at a Ring of Honor event in Dayton, Ohio, Moose showed up unannounced to watch the main event, a dream tag team encounter between The Briscoes and Matt Sydal & ACH. While at first it seemed he was scouting the main event scene, after the match, Moose attacked The Briscoes and Sydal! After a spear recently on ROH Television, Moose has now left Mark Briscoe laying two times and the ROH Original isn’t going out like that. Mark recently stated he has hunted many things, but Moose isn’t one and he is coming hunting this Sunday for the biggest Moose in professional wrestling

Cedric Alexander vs Matt Sydal

Cedric Alexander is seems to be one step away from greatness at any moment, while #Reborn Matt Sydal is in a fight to get to the very top of ROH for the first time. These two athletically gifted individuals will be battling not just to be the winner but to also position themselves as a true contender to the ROH World and Television Championships.

The Kingdom vs The Addiction vs The Bullet Club

You have the destructive IWGP Heavyweight Tag Team Champions in Doc Gallows & Karl “Machine Gun” Anderson, you have the flashy Addiction in Christopher Daniels & Frankie Kazarian and you got the brash Kingdom in Matt Taven & Michael Bennett all clashing for tag team supremacy. The Addiction need a big win like this to set them on the path towards championship gold. The Bullet Club just regained the IWGP Tag Team Championship and are looking to lay waste to anyone that steps up. The Kingdom is on a roll with a huge win last weekend in tag team Armageddon over the Briscoe Brothers and want to keep moving forward. All 3 want to shine in Las Vegas, a victory here puts the winners on a collision course with the ROH World Tag Team Champions!

Maria Kanellis w/Michael Bennett vs O.D.B w/Mark Briscoe

The hatred between the Briscoes and The Kingdom is certainly not a new development. Maria Kanellis is the Queen of the Kingdom and is used to getting her way. She has developed a reputation of using The Briscoes' lack of willingness to come into physical contact with her to her advantage. Time and time again Maria would stick her nose into The Kingdoms/Briscoe Brothers business. The Briscoes finally made a call to even the odds. That call was to the toughest, most-down-and-dirtiest broad they know, O.D.B (One Dirty Briscoe) ! Her credentials and capabilities speak for themselves. She is internationally known as a star of women's wrestling and one of the most uniquely talented athletes of all time. Maria is scared stating over and over that she is not a wrestler. This Sunday night, she will not be able to run. O.D.B. is coming to handle business Briscoe style!

“Mr ROH” Roderick Strong vs BJ Whitmer

After a year of functioning as a unit in The Decade, BJ Whitmer and Adam Page decided it was time to kick Roderick Strong out of the group. Whitmer would take to media outlets and accuse Strong of being egotistical and self-centered. Strong would remind BJ of everything he has in ROH while Whitmer he has never been seen as "the man". Words would turn into violence as Whitmer and Strong have now taken any chance available to get their hands on each other. At 13th Anniversary these two will tear into each other in front of the world. Can the bully, BJ Whitmer, prove his relevance to “Mr. ROH”? Can Strong finally shut Whitmer’s mouth and move past The Decade?
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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by hustler »

rollins could sell sand to the arabs, hes that good.
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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by GUCCI CONDOMS »

hustler wrote:rollins could sell sand to the arabs, hes that good.
Rollins is clearly WWE's best worker right now, and it's really not even close. He is light years ahead of bryan. Pretty sad what bryan has become...

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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by battlecatmeowstab212 »

Image

This is going to be the stiffest match since stiff came to Stifftown.

I can't wait for it. Brief as it may be before he goes to NXT, Joe's ROH run is going to be incredible.
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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by battlecatmeowstab212 »

Trying to find this documentary that Sid / Sid Vicious / Sid Justice / Sycho Sid directed in 2010 about a small town Arkansas family-friendly wrestling promotion. Looks pretty great:

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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by Pizon »

Looks like an infomercial for his indy fed.

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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by battlecatmeowstab212 »

Also, given that Mania's averaging 7-8 matches and one preshow match, here's how the card's shaping up:

Reigns vs. Lesnar
Sting vs. Triple H
John Cena vs. Rusev
Seth Rollins vs. Randy Orton
Wade Barrett vs. R Truth vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Luke Harper Ladder Match
Bray Wyatt vs. The Undertaker
Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal

Miz announced he's in the Andre the Giant battle royal and Star and Goldust's feud, unless I missed something, was absent from Raw entirely this week, so I don't know what's happening with those feuds. I'm sure we're probably getting a Divas match somewhere and something involving The Usos vs. The Swingin' Cats.
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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by zappy »

i wonder if calisto and sin cara will show up in the battle royal

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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by hustler »

reigns is gona beat lesnar.... and its gona make breaking the streak even more meaningless. UGH. im praying he doesn't win clean.
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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by zappy »

i hope at this point they just leave it on lesnar.

jesus christ what a fucking waste

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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by Pizon »

The battle royal seems pointless already. You've got the other guys who need to be on the card in the ladder match. Who's left to shine in the battle royal?

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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by hustler »

shaping up to be one of the worst manias of all time.
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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by battlecatmeowstab212 »

Pizon wrote:The battle royal seems pointless already. You've got the other guys who need to be on the card in the ladder match. Who's left to shine in the battle royal?
Either Sandow eliminates Miz or Curtis Axel actually wins, both of which would be huge.
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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by hustler »

battlecatmeowstab212 wrote:
Pizon wrote:The battle royal seems pointless already. You've got the other guys who need to be on the card in the ladder match. Who's left to shine in the battle royal?
Either Sandow eliminates Miz or Curtis Axel actually wins, both of which would be huge.

i want a wrestlemania with no cena.

i could foresee a scenario where cena is left off the wrestlemania card, since he has no match, he interferes in the reigns vs lesnar, causing reigns to lose. he does it because he sees reigns as the "next big thing" whose gona replace him as the top dawg of the company, this would also be the big heel turn everyone has been waiting for. that would actually work if reigns was over, but he's not at all. :fail:
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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by GUCCI CONDOMS »

hustler wrote:reigns is gona beat lesnar.... and its gona make breaking the streak even more meaningless. UGH. im praying he doesn't win clean.
Lesnar winning/losing depends on if he's staying with WWE after mania...

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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by blastmaster »

Really hope Rollins cashes in.

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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by hustler »

id like to know what the mentality is like for the rest of the locker room, when they see this dude reigns, who is clearly not ready, clearly undeserving, who clearly sucks on the mic, is being gifted the keys to the castle, and its your job to go out there night after night and make him look good. the crowds for reigns are 50/50 AT BEST. i mean, is it just like..fuckit we gona do our best to make this work, or is it more of a..this dude cant hack it, hes totally fucking this up, now is my chance to "grab the brass ring." i feel bad for reigns, like..hes obviously doing his best, and he doesn't suck. hes got a good look, hes got decent moves. hes just wack on the mic, and its not his fault vince decided to force feed him down the WWE universe throat. reigns is probably looking over his shoulder everyday wondering if hes one fuckup away from losing his chance at this. the pressure must be unbearable.
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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by tehgiftofgab »

Heyman have the best promos skills ever? If not he's slowly but surely reaching that status

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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by hustler »

tehgiftofgab wrote:Heyman have the best promos skills ever? If not he's slowly but surely reaching that status
heyman, punk, rock, austin, booker t, scott steiner, chris jericho, eddy guerrero
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Re: CM Punk & Wrestling's Best Storyline in Years...

Post by GUCCI CONDOMS »

hustler wrote:
tehgiftofgab wrote:Heyman have the best promos skills ever? If not he's slowly but surely reaching that status
heyman, punk, rock, austin, booker t, scott steiner, chris jericho, eddy guerrero
No flair, hogan, and Scott hall?

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