Favorite Season of The Wire

[drizzle]

I think Ice made similar claims before. It seems like overkill, wouldn't that charge only apply to white viewers? There's def a portion of fans that are attracted to the show because of a fetishistic appreciation of drug culture as filtered through rap music, but I don't think that represents the entire audience.

I've said it on here before, and it's true. Don't see why it can't apply to white and non-white viewers alike. I'd even argue that there are probably a lot more black than white people in this country who fetishize the drug culture vis-à-vis rap music.

My point on the white thing was more along the lines of questioning what constitutes voyeurism in this situation. I'm reading it as experiencing the 'exotic' world of the drug culture from the safe distance of your couch. So with that idea in mind, can watching s1 and 3-5 be considered as voyeuristic for somebody like Magneto, who iirc hated s2, and himself comes from Red Hook and so maybe not be personally far removed from the world that was shown in those seasons?

But if you use voyeuristic as anybody who approaches the show with the mindset of 'hell yea this shit is like a rap song played out on tv, except s2', then you're probably right

[peanut butter]

it sets up some of the most key events that happen later, and it actually has a good amount of stuff relating directly to the plots of s1 and s3 that people completely overlook because of the focus on the docks.

The quoted reasons are why I like S2. And I also appreciated the nuts it took to basically crank a hard left to diverge away from what they set up in S1, before getting it fully back on track for S3. Its also really valuable in widening the scope from a show about just the projects to Baltimore as an entire city. They obviously flesh that out more over the course of the show, but S2 made that effort very clear.

I dont necessarily agree with the voyeurism comment, but I do think that accounts for a certain segment of the fan population, and it probably is part of the reason why those people might not enjoy the second season as much.

Regardless, anyone who thinks S2 is worse than the final season isn't watching the show for the wrong reasons...they must not have been watching at all.


PEACE

[Combo7]

Agreed on all fronts.

[Philaflava]

"The Wire" star Anwan Glover was stabbed inside a Washington DC nightclub early Sunday morning.

Glover -- who played Slim Charles -- was in Cafe Asia when he claims 2 men started beating him. He says he heard someone scream, "He has a knife," and then felt a sharp pain.

Glover -- who also appeared in "Twelve Years a Slave" -- was taken to a local hospital with lacerations and bruises.

It's unclear why the fight started ... or the relationship between the men who beat and stabbed him.

We're told Anwar is still in the hospital and currently undergoing some tests.

Anwar's rep says he appreciates everyone concern, adding, "It's helping him get through this."

Read more: http://www.tmz.com#ixzz39N2RrhOi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Cash Rulz]

Black people DO NOT fetishize the drug culture. If you're black and anything below the middle class line, you're surrounded by it one way or another especially in a major city. It's not obsessed with because of a tv show or music. It's obsessed with because when you live in a "hood" you see it every day.

To add, why probably more black people don't like season 2 is a very simple reason. We don't give a shit about the white characters.
Yes but its real.

[EMCEE DARTH MALEK]

season 2 is boring. it's not any more complicated than that. i take your point PB that it sets up later seasons. agree that it's a risky move to change the setting one season in. coulda been done right but it's boring. frank nick & ziggy are fine characters but it's boring.

imo s5>s2. s5 is over the top, slightly going off the rails in an effort to conclude the series. but it's not boring.


ps. bodie went out like a sucker

[Blockhead]

I'm not a huge season 2 guy but season 2 shits all over season 5 and it's not even close.

[samdoom]

I'm not a huge season 2 guy but season 2 shits all over season 5 and it's not even close.

i think its closer than you'd admit. 5 is the weakest season and season 2 has some annoying stuff (ziggy, less focus on "the streets") but there's some really good stuff in season 5, despite some of the hacky serial killer/newspaper writer bullshit. If you remove that storyline from the last season i think that 5 is prob better than 2. The characters involved in season 5 were more interesting and the narratives were coming to a close which was much more interesting to watch, especially knowing it was the final season. Some of the scenes with the kids from season 4 were great, especially when dookie and michael part ways, etc.

[Thun]

Season 2 is right behind Season 4, and then the rest of the seasons place distantly below. So many of you are whigger wierdoes, it's gone beyond funny to bizarre at this point.

[Tommy Bunz]

To be fair, this thread was supposed to be favorite season, not best, so there really isn't a wrong answer here.

[EMCEE DARTH MALEK]

Season 2 is right behind Season 4, and then the rest of the seasons place distantly below. So many of you are whigger wierdoes, it's gone beyond funny to bizarre at this point.

whenever i criticize s2 some sucker like you hops out the woodwork and says this. i fear blacks and avoid them at every opportunity so i can confirm that your racial explanation is silliness and s2 sucks for other reasons.

[TheBigSleep]

Thun's right though.

Season five is the worst, season four is the best, everyone pretty much agrees on that.

Season one sets up two, three sets up four. Three is stuck in the middle with Hamsterdam, introducing politics, wrapping up the arc that started in season one. It's made weaker, more boring, and more unbelievable for these things and others.

One is the beginning of it all, it's smart, it's a decent standalone, with some problems. Two seems better to me, it unfolds well, expands the series, it has Omar in court with the shotgun / briefcase scene, Ziggy makes an impact on you strongly one way or another, Frank Sobotka is one of the most fully realized single season characters, the dock shit helps show you that they're explaining how a city (and drug / human trafficking from overseas) works, not just another cops and robbers show. Plus Nick Sobotka's girlfriend's titties, D'Angelo in jail, the beginning of the Barksdale-Bell empire starting to really crumble, how it starts with Beadie and the dead girls, the Greek being introduced, I could go on more if I thought about it.

To add, why probably more black people don't like season two is a very simple reason. We don't give a shit about the white characters. Yes but it's real.

I haven't found any white / black correlation about season two in particular, but I will say that even though that may be true for you and a small percentage of others, it's mostly the reverse. It's white flight on TV, white people don't watch black TV, black people are willing to watch both predominately black and predominately white programming. So it's actually the whites, probably the older ones mostly but also a good chunk of the younger ones I'd bet, who can't tell all those blacks apart or understand what they're saying and they'd rather not stick around to find out. That is, until it becomes an acclaimed show that had nearly been cancelled three times already and even then it took some persuading. You want it to be one way, but it's the other way. It's not that black people largely don't care about white people on TV, it's the opposite. Or that's what studies show anyway.

[The Afronaut]

Three is stuck in the middle with Hamsterdam, introducing politics, wrapping up the arc that started in season one. It's made weaker, more boring, and more unbelievable for these things and others.

Can we take some time to collectively discuss Season 3? I get that this may not be peoples favorite, but I cannot understand for the life of me why it gets described in these type of terms on this board. "Boring"; "Unbelivable"? Compared to what?

[LilLeftBrain]

time would be better served never discussing the wire again, cause this page after the bump, oof

[TheBigSleep]

It's not horrible, it's still The Wire and definitely far above five but not nearly as good as four, two, or one. It's easy to best yourself once, but the third season hurdle seems to be a difficult one for many, with a few notable exceptions. David Simon said something about how he found Hamsterdam to be less plausible than the serial killer storyline when season five was being criticized and he was telling everybody how that was supposed to be an epilogue, not considered a real season.

I just think that season three doesn't spin plates as well as the first couple and certainly doesn't intertwine the different institutions as well as four. It started with the 9/11 blow up the towers parallel, had all the over the top Western trope stuff with Brother Mouzone / Omar / Stringer, Bunny Colvin as the saintly cop just trying to do right who ends up on the street, looking at what's left of what he created because hell is paved with good intentions, etc.... It just felt more forced and less naturalistic because they tried to substitute some of their more subtle messages for more broad strokes, maybe because they thought they had to present politics in a more palatable way. Like I said, they started reaching and going for heavy handed shit in three, it's the start of a lot of what makes five not as good.

[EMCEE DARTH MALEK]

yeah mouzone was terrible. hamsterdam was a cool idea imo. it's not meant to be realistic; it's more like, in the real world we have this vocal group of public policy wonks who want to tolerate drug trafficking with the goal of harm reduction. let's do an on-screen experiment and see where it goes. not realistic but interesting, as opposed to mouzone, who is unrealistic and retarded.

[Blockhead]

I could be wrong but aren't both Mouzone and hamster dam based on things/people that actually happened/existed? At least loosely so. I definitely recall reading something about that...

[drizzle]

Re: Mouzone

[Question from Forum Member] Is Brother Mouzone based on a real contract killer you or the other writers came across in your years of writing about the streets? He just seems too odd a creation (NOI- lookin, Harper's reading, erudite killer) to be completely fictional. If he is entirely fictional then my compliments again.

[David Simon:] Brother Mouzone, like all of our characters, is a composite of attributes from a variety of people. No one is entirely fictional or entirely real.

He is obviously stylized but there are also fairly obvious IRL parallels to this type of character, remember that sketch of Biggie's killer?

He also plays an interesting role vis-a-vis other characters, specifically the other street-level enforcers. He is the the counterbalance to the more (stereo)typical portrayals of street dudes BUT at the same time the Wire has a certain pattern of creating off-beat or eccentric tough guys... Omar is a gay dude in a cowboy duster, Snoop is a deadly 4ft lesbian, Chris is detached like he just landed from another planet, Cuddy is a former killer who lost his nerve... even Wee Bay, who seems the most typical of the bunch, has his fish thing. Mouzone's otherness is more extreme than some of the others but def fits within this pattern.

[Cash Rulz]

To add, why probably more black people don't like season two is a very simple reason. We don't give a shit about the white characters. Yes but it's real.

I haven't found any white / black correlation about season two in particular, but I will say that even though that may be true for you and a small percentage of others, it's mostly the reverse. It's white flight on TV, white people don't watch black TV, black people are willing to watch both predominately black and predominately white programming. So it's actually the whites, probably the older ones mostly but also a good chunk of the younger ones I'd bet, who can't tell all those blacks apart or understand what they're saying and they'd rather not stick around to find out. That is, until it becomes an acclaimed show that had nearly been cancelled three times already and even then it took some persuading. You want it to be one way, but it's the other way. It's not that black people largely don't care about white people on TV, it's the opposite. Or that's what studies show anyway.

I wasn't trying to analyze tv programming on a whole. Just this show. And I'm feel pretty sure that if you took a poll most black people probably didn't care for Season 2. If you asked them privately, they'd say it's because they don't care about the white characters as much.

[TheBigSleep]

No I get your stance on it, I'm just not sure that that's true or that that's the reason, it hasn't been in my experience. At least not yet.

Agree with drizzle regarding Brother Mouzone.

And Hamsterdam wasn't based on real life events, it was an idea of Simon's. But it then inspired some similar real life events, probably in Florida. Life imitating The Wire has happened on more than a few occasions. Makes sense that the masses see a clever idea whether it's a heist, a way to drug deal without worrying about wiretaps for the moment, or how to dispose of a body, and a few realize that hey, that might actually work.

[The Afronaut]

My feelings about Muzone are pretty well documented on this site. So I'll definitely give that up for Season 3.

Getting a first and nuanced glimpse of what life was like for those higher up the chain of command than officers was done fantastically. Thats what I felt the focus of the season was.

[TheBigSleep]

Totally, it's just some of the subplots fell by the wayside as they focused on the new theme, so the integration wasn't as seamless until a season later, which is when it really works for them. It's all nitpicking, but if we're gonna break it down, everyone starts as an archetype but as archetype means archetype, everything can easily devolve into caricature.

That's when they really started to do the it's all related, gonna come full circle, this person is the new that person shit. Which doesn't appear to be how life works (and they usually do a good job of avoiding oversimplification), it's just an easy out, like look how the system keeps going and the next set is just like the last, except worse / better in how exaggerated they are, regardless of circumstance. Which is a huge flaw with five as well obviously, especially with the way they beat you over the head with all that in the finale.

When a show is set in some alternate universe, if it goes south, or falls flat, they can change stuff or explain that away, but when you are supposed to be in this universe and showing things as they are and something doesn't ring true, it can become glaringly obvious and ruin suspension of disbelief if you let it. Obviously there wasn't all that much of that in The Wire, but the level of realism is lower than something like Deadwood I'd say.

And part of that is a cop out because we all lived through the nineties and early thousands, so some events are going to be judged more harshly by us, but just in the way dialogue is written or events play out, it's not the absolute end-all-be-all show for realistic depictions on television that some make it out to be. It does do a great job of showing the difference between individuals and institutions and how systems fuck over people, that's the larger point of the show as a whole.

A modern Greek tragedy, using escapism for people to have to escape into problems rather than away from them, showing how a city works as the central theme or character of your show, these are all great concepts and that's why the show works. But if you wanna dissect it, there's problems just like with anything else.

[The Afronaut]

Fair enough.

[Cash Rulz]

While that is a great analysis of what was happening, on a whole, drug dealing in any major city neighborhood takes this curve. Maybe not so much the Stringer Bell/real estate thing, but in general, it is a stupid ass cycle.

Your description was significantly more eloquent than mine tho'.

[TheBigSleep]

Sure, the trajectory wasn't off, it was more about how they handled it.

[EMCEE DARTH MALEK]

at least that frizzy haired coward kid made it out.

[Tommy Bunz]

HBO just announced that The Wire has finally been remastered in HD and will come out this month on HBO.
Glad that David Simon finally joined the rest of the world, hopefully blu-rays are right around the corner.

[Employee]

Season four's finale might be the best episode of the series.

Forgot how good that shit is until I reupped on it last night.

[Philaflava]

HBO just announced that The Wire has finally been remastered in HD and will come out this month on HBO.
Glad that David Simon finally joined the rest of the world, hopefully blu-rays are right around the corner.

Niiiiiiiice. But I was rewatching this last week and it has that 36 Chambers feel to it. I kinda dig it.

[drizzle]

the wire is not meant to be in HD, I remember reading some comment from Simon about how they purposefully shot it in full frame and grainy. so what they're doing here sounds kinda akin to colorizing bw movies