Marvel MCU thread

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The Afronaut
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Re: Marvel MCU thread

Post by The Afronaut »

drizzle wrote:Has the Punisher show been confirmed? They set him up kinda weird here, painted him almost too negatively to support his own series as a sympathetic protagonist. What are they going to do with a humorless and explicitly mentally ill character, even in an antihero context?
I do not believe so as of yet, and I was essentially thinking the same thing. Where would they go with him and could it do any better at filling 13 eps than the others?

I'm sure they'll do it eventually though, for better or worse.

Would continuing to work him into other characters storylines be a bad look though? I don't know. ...I'm clearly overthinking this.

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Re: Marvel MCU thread

Post by 907 »

I remember reading somewhere that one of the people behind the Marvel stuff on Netflix said that they're not going to do one, but that Barenthal was pushing for it to happen. I agree that it's not a great idea, he's a much better supporting character.
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Re: Marvel MCU thread

Post by Spartan »

Tilda Swinton does Gordon Liu in the Doctor Strange teaser trailer:


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Re: Marvel MCU thread

Post by drizzle »

lolol at Gordon Liu

looks good, I never read the comics but this seems interesting. they ripped off Batman Begins and Inception in the trailer but i'm ok with that
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Re: Marvel MCU thread

Post by The Afronaut »

Weird hearing Cumberbatch do an American accent.

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Re: Marvel MCU thread

Post by drizzle »

New Civil War clip introducing Rudd

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Re: Marvel MCU thread

Post by Spartan »

Empire has a Captain America: Civil War review out already and is hailing it the best Marvel Studios film to date.

http://www.empireonline.com/movies/capt ... ar/review/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Marvel MCU thread

Post by Tommy Bunz »

Yeah I've read nothing but great things about Civil War.
Also really interested in the Russo Brothers Avengers movie now, one of them described it as the Nashville of comic book movies.

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Re: Marvel MCU thread

Post by The Afronaut »

drizzle wrote:Has the Punisher show been confirmed? They set him up kinda weird here, painted him almost too negatively to support his own series as a sympathetic protagonist. What are they going to do with a humorless and explicitly mentally ill character, even in an antihero context?
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/04/29/ ... lix-series" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Confirmed today. I agree with the concerns you mentioned Driz as well as the ones mentioned in the article. Guess we'll see how it plays out.

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Re: Marvel MCU thread

Post by drizzle »

^^ was just saying the saaaame shit earlier today - the way they created the character in DD makes a great supporting player but maybe not somebody who can carry a whole series alone. It's the Bobba Fett syndrome, we want the cool bit player to become the focus but there's either not enough to the character to be a satisfying protagonist or you ruin the appeal of his mystique with too much backstory and retcon.
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Re: Marvel MCU thread

Post by alpha »

I tend to agree ^^^

But the track record is good and I'm down to give it a shot

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Re: Marvel MCU thread

Post by blastmaster »

10 episodes of The Slavers combined with In The Beginning would be amazing.

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Re: Marvel MCU thread

Post by paul_smith »

saw Civil War last night. Loved every minute of it. I can definitely agree with the best Marvel movie to date statement

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Re: Marvel MCU thread

Post by drizzle »

3 months later, AV Club roasts the shit out of the DD finale. There's some good points here, although maybe too harsh a slam overall.

http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/daredevils ... ad--236191" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

it still annoys me a little that a lot of criticism is based on the idea that DD HAS to be some dramatic powerhouse and doesn't allow that a show about a guy in red tights fighting ninjas could coast on some dumb action movie pleasures (which it does).
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Re: Marvel MCU thread

Post by Cash Rulz »

Because DD is such a weak character in this series and keeps getting his ass kicked is what kept me away from it. These are supposed to be "superheroes" with the emphasis on "super". A regular dude that just learned to listen real good is corny. Plus DD is supposed to be on par with the likes of Spiderman. Not on this show. It's just hard to accept and much of the first season's writing was just boring as hell.

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Re: Marvel MCU thread

Post by ric »

CIVIL WAR REVIEW WITH SPOILERS

before we even get into this let me first say Dr strange looks dope as fuck and will possibly be the best solo movie to date.

in re civil war shit was dope but the first 1/3 I was freal like 'wtf' which culminates in that ridiculous sequence where cap pulls the helicopter down. thank God that was the last moment where stupid shit and bad staging/direction/story ruled the day.

then it got better but not markedly redemptive. nothing can wash out that first act and poor premise. the rest only had little tidbits of bullshit sprinkled throughout aside from the poor character arc decisions.

overall they did a good job with the stories except vision. I mean wtf. seriously. I realize that he's too awesome and tips the scales like haloti ngata in a pre-k tug of war. but they could've actually written something that makes sense of that. instead of the complete bullshit propagated in this one. in ultron he's a dominator. he's everywhere and he doesn't even fully understand his own power. in this one he's just hanging out. you know kicking it. some things are interesting some things are boring sometimes he's here sometimes he's not. and there use/non-use of him cheapens the way things unfold in the story. when vision shows up that should be a huge fucking problem. but it just amounts to a line in the sand. literally. and he knocks over ant dude. I mean that's it really. this dude who can pick up thors hammer. and how do they write it out? he's distracted? fucking lulz bruh. Dude didn't have screen time enough to be distracted except for the missed shot which that 'I was distracted' moment may have been all to explain the missed shot (it's unclear really) which again cheapens shit.

extremely inconsistent quality with that whole gangbang action sequence though. there's sweet there's really sweet then there's garbage and mediocre shit too

I will say that the shift into making the super hero's reason for doing things from this kind of amorphous 'this is what I do' thing to the personal is well timed in the meta sense and will serve them down the line as it has done in the this movie after the garbage was cleaned up mid-way through and will hopefully continue to serve in the marvel movies

black panther is fucking dope though. the dude the hero and the place he has in the world and the relational web or whatever.

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Re: Marvel MCU thread

Post by blastmaster »

Haha, such a shitty take bro.

Movie was dope. Much better than Ultron.

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Re: Marvel MCU thread (civil war spoilers)

Post by ric »

@blastmaster
I agree better than ultron. just that they fucked up vision and it could've been much better

I liked the movie I thought it was sweet in general but one key point for me is that while it feels like a 'real' movie etc and the way they made the characters more human and less emotionally robotic it doesn't mean you can have shitty story. they made some very poor decisions. and emotionally/tone-wise Im not so sure they got it right or did justice to the material.

and here's one big point where I do think they've crossed a threshold and they better get back to other side of that threshold:
usually in the previous marvel. movies and good movies in general the narrative arguments are had where characters are at their best (especially for super heroes who are all about what they do and why) ie they make strong arguments about what they're doing either morally or personally or whatever. in civil war they have half assed argument after half assed argument dwelling on the same material over and over (they implicitly chose this path with the shitty introduction and working premises for the movie in the first 1/3). it ought to move and/or the centerpiece of their conflicts ought to be urgent enough to justify conflict. it's basic fucking story telling. and one thing it shows is lack of vision (as in concept formulation no pun intended) for how the ideas in the movie work and how the audience relates to that shit. and it adds up to them being stuck in a mire of their own making for what is otherwise awesome fucking material. meaning they squandered a fantastic opportunity. it seems to me that they were so focused on evolving the characters and their relationships that they forgot just how awesome the civil war concept really is and they didn't maximize their yield on sweet shit. not in the least. of course you can thank the poor premise etc for a lot of this. I can't emphasize enough how shoddy that stuff was.

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Re: Marvel MCU thread (civil war spoilers)

Post by Ramen »

seen it and thought it was OK, like it was cool but eh.


p.s. fucking lol @ channeling Gordon Liu

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Re: Marvel MCU thread (civil war spoilers)

Post by ardamus »

dope film. Ant-Man and Spiderman stole the show for me.
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Re: Marvel MCU thread (civil war spoilers)

Post by Employee »

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/201 ... cky-barnes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So while Marvel was likely never going to make the homoerotic subtext of Cap and Bucky into text, would it really have hurt to keep their relationship more ambiguous? As if to put the nail in the coffin of speculation, Bucky and Cap paused for a moment in the middle of snowy Siberia to reminisce about their days chasing skirts in pre-War Brooklyn. It’s a sweet, human bonding moment but one that also bristles with heterosexual virility. If Disney isn’t inclined to give audiences a gay superhero, couldn’t they have at least left us the dream of Bucky and Cap?

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Re: Marvel MCU thread (civil war spoilers)

Post by Tweak Da Leak »

General audiences think this schlock is better than BvS? LOL
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Re: Marvel MCU thread (civil war spoilers)

Post by The Afronaut »

Couple things: Yes, CW is getting hyperbolic praise, when it most definitely has issues including some it shares with BvS. That's dumb and hypocritical. I totally agree.

However the hypocrisy in no ways means CW not a more enjoyable or dare I say better film than BvS.

I really hope the DCEU is able to bounce back from BvS, cause this whole backlash to the backlash stuff is really dumb. Yeesh.

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Re: Marvel MCU thread (civil war spoilers)

Post by chapter thrive »

i left civil war far more excited about what lies ahead for the marvel universe than i did with batman vs superman. the story was tied up in an understandable way, and led on to more potential major plots on the way to infinity saga. where as with batman vs superman, i left thinking what the fuck did i just watch and wonderig how they were going to pull out of that nosedive, already killing super man off (naturally to resurect him next movie)


that being said, i was slightly bummed they didnt bring out a crazy reveal at the end of civil war, or go as drastic as the comics...
black panther and spiderman are going to be incredible movies because they are probably going to build on the sanctioned avengers vs the secret avengers. (thats my assumption anyway) (and potentially the dark avengers, since norman osbourne can potentially live in this universe now)

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Re: Marvel MCU thread (civil war spoilers)

Post by ric »

in re infinity saga
shit is set up to be dope and while I'd like to have faith... the way they came up short in civil war is troubling. the civil war potential is much better than what was presented here.

in re batman superman
killing off superman is basically retarded fuck that the comics did it

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Re: Marvel MCU thread (civil war spoilers)

Post by The Afronaut »

ric wrote:the civil war potential is much better than what was presented here.
I hear a lot of peeps saying this but given what the MCU has to work with (versus the comics) I'm interested in hearing what could have been significantly better.

I would have loved to have seen some of the TV characters worked in in some capacity, but that's about it.

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Re: Marvel MCU thread (civil war spoilers)

Post by ric »

@afronaut
well I'd have to go through the first 1/3rd like moment by moment to get really detailed (which ought to be done). but here's some general ish
1. they manufacture garbage conflict points using the pre existing stories. its ok to use the previous movies except they do so in really retarded ways. like 'hey thanks but no thanks for saving the planet from indestructible space aliens - all that real estate damage?(lulz) yeah all your fault.' in this scene they could've used previous shit as long as it's not 'all your fault'. and here's the thing: a guy as genius as stark? he buys it. widow? she buys it. vision? buys into something related that actually made sense for him but kinda not too. has their shit been tainted a bit? sort of but it's still weak as fuck. and the wakanda incident? fucking laughable man. contrived as fuck (though the action was cool (but some poor decisions still))
2. I would've come with something entirely new for the premise. if you include the other movies it's just bonus. and now you know what the civil war is? it's just some master plan concocted by this douche bag who faked some bullshit on a camera and faked out the universe where the most reasonable thing to do would be to do what every preceeding movie does: investigate that shit but the new order of the day in this movie is charge in and blow shit up as if it ever was the order of the day. I mean iirc both sides withhold info from the other side which if one of them shares ends the immediate conflict (specifically thinking about cap and co not mentioning something exculpatory to iron man for NO REASON even when they claim to still have hope for each other). so sure there's some feels there from the characters about their ethos and shit but the civil war itself sprung from some douchey plan and the utter ineptitude of both sides who act like butt hurt children all of the sudden who magically forget how to solve problems all of a sudden. cap almost signs onto the treaty too which was total fucking bullshit from the get go and used a lot of space to do so and what was his reasoning? because iron and vision colluded to keep witch hidden away which is totally an iron man thing to do so for cap to be like 'ugh you just don't get it ugh ugh ugh' made almost no sense so the whole exercise was a waste
3. they don't really execute the true differences between the union and the secession. I mean really iron man just gives himself a boss in this movie and cap & Co are hounded as criminals. I mean that's ridiculous. will they expand on this in subsequent movies? sure. can it be cool? yes. can it be super stupid? yes. can it be forgotten and ill used? yes. was it well done here? fuck no so I have little faith. there is no sense from the union here about feeling like they're doing anything worth doing there's a few lines but nothing beyond that. there's no sense of righteousness in the secession. caps character ought to have changed drastically in this new role considering these circumstances. he doesn't. widow should've actually been conflicted or spyful in her own character direction. she wasn't. not really. there's nothing truly operationally different for either side aside from the big ocean prison and some technology access (which is flimsy and arguable). this movie should have been two movies. it should have more sense of space to really illustrate the differences and set up some worthwhile character growth and changes to the world. and then guess what? at the end of the day iron man says fuck you to the boss. Yeah he really believes in that oversight shit. real great shit there. very good character insight moment NOT. and where is the REAL division anyway? it doesn't really exist. they don't really hate each other. the frustration we've glimpsed in previous movies didn't evolve at all. which also again goes to lack of urgency apart from the obvious lack of character growth especially on cap and stark. stark ought to be much more manic on every front especially with his break from Paltrow.
4. and the worst part about this is YOU KNOW they're gonna build off the bs in here and it's gonna be wack as fuck. like villains will track down heroes who are in the public databases etc etc which is extra stupid as fuck because cyber crime etc is the weakest bullshit ever . but what I'm saying is they could build on it and it could be sweet. a lot of it probably will be. Ill trust them for that. but they've set it up to minimize the untapped potential of the civil war story and mood and world etc etc. but they've also set it up to where like stupid shit is perfectly acceptable which for the most part in the marvel universe that wasn't the case. and my guess is that for some but probably not all of the marvel movies you're going to see a lot more stupid shit just so they can make more movies quicker and not worry about the integrity of the web of the universe
5.in sum they just take this very high stakes world changing thing and make it as low stakes and irrelevant as possible. they didn't commit and they fucking should have
and now that I think about it I'm not so sure it is better than ultron. it's a different animal. do I like they are going this direction? yes. is it as well executed as ultron in terms of maintaining the integrity of the core substance of the movie? I don't think so.

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Re: Marvel MCU thread (civil war spoilers)

Post by Cash Rulz »

Not sure if I'd say better than Winter Soldier, but damn close. This was done the way I'd like a superhero movie to be done. The setup was done well, the comedy was on point (as usual) and the fight scenes were amazing.

Sorry, but I want my action movies to be entertaining and not thought provoking or me having to get into the director's vision in order to understand it. Just have fights, destroy shit and let's go.

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Re: Marvel MCU thread (civil war spoilers)

Post by drizzle »

Enjoyed the shit out of this while watching it. Wouldn't say it's my favorite Marvel movie overall, but I do think it's the best one from the central Avengers-centric story line. With that said, I feel like this embodies the best and the worst tendencies of the MCU all in one shot.

At the core of the movie is a great story of a conflict within the established Avengers team, driven by a clever combination of internal and external factors. This story logically builds on the events of the previous movies, is entirely consistent with/driven by the character personalities developed over the last howevermany years, and even serves as viable meta-textual commentary on modern superhero movies in general. The villain is interesting, also logically derived and motivated by the past events of this movie universe, conceived and cast in perfect proportion to the central plot. Of course this core story has some dumb moments and continuity/plot holes, that's to be expected from a big loud summer blockbuster. But overall it's executed extremely well, with good direction and charismatic performances and good action and a tone that nails a pretty solid balance of gravity and humor. This core comes pretty close to achieving the platonic ideal of this kind of serialized big budget story telling.

But this core conflict is not the Civil War story. Civil War is hinged entirely on the Superhero Registration Act, something that affects all superpowered people in the Marvel universe, thereby giving them clear motivation to get involved and pick a side. The Sokovia Accords affect only the known core Avengers. The MCU just uses the Civil War name, on the premise of 'it's Cap vs Tony, close enough', as a way to put some of their new/side characters on screen under the Avengers banner. Their presence doesn't actually serve a functional or thematic purpose in the core conflict of this movie. They're in this only to perpetuate the MCU machine further, to establish new product lines and lay the groundwork for future movies.

Spider Man, Ant Man and Hawkye are given only the flimsiest of motivations for being involved, not much more than Tony/Cap asked for help nicely. They are almost entirely superfluous within the story, and serve only as bodies on the floor for a big fight which they have no good reason for fighting. The movie doesn't even bother trying to invoke ideology in their recruitment to respective causes. They're present only because they are Marvel characters and this is an MCU movie and more MCU movies will be made going forward. Black Panther is the only one given real motivation for participation, but even he isn't actually needed for this story to work. Remove the murder of his father, another entirely superflous character who only exists as a reason to involve Black Panther, and he also becomes superflous. Almost everything he does while participating in the core conflict could've been done by Vision, who as somebody pointed out above is indeed pretty underused here.

And the funny thing is that, as a fan, it's hard to get mad at Marvel for all this, even while fully recognizing all the tenets of a cynical business-driven road map in play, because they do all this extra shit really really well. They nail Spiderman, his backstory and presence are retconned elegantly and economically, the kid himself is great; they even manage to deal with little nerdy details like the squinting eye holes and the origin of the web. Black Panther is awesome as fuck, in every way. Ant Man is just fun to watch, both in action and a source of comic relief. BUT NONE OF EXCUSES THE FACT THAT ABOUT A FULL 3RD OF THIS VERY LONG MOVIE IS DEVOTED TO THINGS THAT HAVE VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH THE MAIN PLOT, IT'S JUST MARKETING FOR FUTURE PRODUCTS. And as I walked away from it, after sitting through two spins of credits just to watch two post-credit scenes that amounted to absolutely nothing, I started to hate myself a little bit for falling prey to it. We are locked into a fucked up cultural symbiosis with this giant gluttonous MCU beast that strives only to grow bigger multiply itself as we feast on its gross but delicious fat folds.
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Re: Marvel MCU thread (civil war spoilers)

Post by ric »

:cheers:
good stuff in here

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