GOT: book > show thread

[drizzle]

basically, WTF

I was kinda hyped for the changes because I hoped they would correct Martin shuffling his feet for about 1700 out of 2000 pages of 4 & 5, but what they're doing here aint that good either.

The stuff with Lilfinger/Sansa is not making much sense. If he somehow doesn't know that Ramsey is a sick fuck that's explicitly counter to his character. If he knows and figures he's ok to leave his most crucial power play/object of boner fantasy with the most fucked up family around, as they're about to get ran down by a huge army... that's dumb as shit and also against character. As is the idea that he can hide all of this from Cercei somehow.

Barristan dying sucks, I'm a big fan of his growing role in the book. I suppose that's a shortcut to speed up the main point of Daani fucking up in Mereen and then learning the next stage of dragon-ing through diarrhea.

Bronn and Jaime is gonna be fun, but Bronn putting up with this 'dig the graves' shit feels out of character too. He's a pragmatic survivor, heroic looser missions with 10000:1 odds are not his style. He's savvy enough to know that Jaime's promises mean much less now with no Tywin.

I guess Grif Jr, prince what'shisname's journey to meet the Khaleesi, everything that actually happens in Dorne and Zombie Cat weren't that important..... Which is fine because most of it felt like clutter and asides anyway. Esp Zombie Cat, she sucks and maybe #d2b Pod will live now

[Guun]

It seems as though Brienne/Pod are taking the place of Mance/Abel the Bard at Winterfell, but yeah, I'm still not getting Littlefinger's angle in the whole matter.

I'm thinking LF comes back to KL gets pissed about his brothel's being trashed, and then tells the faith militants about Cersei and Lancel or something to that effect.

I'm also wondering the importance of greyscale/stonemen. I believe Stannis made reference to her getting the disease from the doll. I'm wondering if she'll be the one that Sam/Gilly take to save her cause of Melisandre's need for royal blood. Although they may kill that storyline entirely cause now Mace and Meryn are going to Bravos.

I agree Zombie cat sucks, but the reveal was pretty cool when you first read it after all the crazy shit that happened at the end of that book. I'm guessing we won't get any sort of Jaime/Blackfish standoff which was one of the best parts of that storyline.

Also R+L=J is pretty much confirmed, unless they're just pulling the ultimate troll job.

[drizzle]

I'm also wondering the importance of greyscale/stonemen. I believe Stannis made reference to her getting the disease from the doll. I'm wondering if she'll be the one that Sam/Gilly take to save her cause of Melisandre's need for royal blood. Although they may kill that storyline entirely cause now Mace and Meryn are going to Bravos.

I have a feeling they're gonna dump everything that's related to Oldtown, including Sam and Gilly going there. Which is a shame because it's intriguing and seems to have a larger purpose in the story, especially the faceless man (who I always assumed was Jaquen but that's obv not happening in the show). There's too much to introduce and none of it could be made interesting in 2-scene segments nor does it have anything to do with anything else going on.

I'm still hoping they'll introduce Balon's brothers but that's doesn't seem likely either.

[Yohan]

I'm also wondering the importance of greyscale/stonemen. I believe Stannis made reference to her getting the disease from the doll. I'm wondering if she'll be the one that Sam/Gilly take to save her cause of Melisandre's need for royal blood. Although they may kill that storyline entirely cause now Mace and Meryn are going to Bravos.

I have a feeling they're gonna dump everything that's related to Oldtown, including Sam and Gilly going there. Which is a shame because it's intriguing and seems to have a larger purpose in the story, especially the faceless man (who I always assumed was Jaquen but that's obv not happening in the show). There's too much to introduce and none of it could be made interesting in 2-scene segments nor does it have anything to do with anything else going on.

I'm still hoping they'll introduce Balon's brothers but that's doesn't seem likely either.

A shame, really.

Can't say I've been digging the way the show has been developed in the first 4 episodes. They've scratched the whole Young Griff/ Jon Connington storyline, the travel to Oldtown, the trouble in Winterfell, the unrest in the Vale of Arryn, everything Iron Islands related, the siege of Riverrun, the siege of Dragonstone, a huge part of the politics in Slaver's Bay etc. I've enjoyed the show and I only read the books after the previous season but I feel like the current direction the show is heading in is not a good look.

[drizzle]

Really like this post from hipinion painting the book/show differences in a better light. Makes some good points in their defence at least

the divergences were almost always net positive except for the winterfell stuff in book/season 2 (which caused a shitload of issues in theons storyline). books 1-3 had huge logical problems too, and the show smoothed almost all of them out. there's no denying they're losing some good things going forward but sometimes you have to remove tissue around the quentyn martell, second half dwd tyrion, dwd daeny, kingsmoot anything cancers.

most of these changes are based on episodic economy to conclude the series by season 7, i think, with season 7 meeting at the same place as the last half of book 7. theyve eliminated all of the self-contained book 4->5->6 plots because they're basically unrelated to the ending and there's the need to fit 4000 pages into 36 episodes.

brienne is going to slaughter boltons and rescue theon and sansa instead of taking a gore tour of the westeros freak show. she will probably be horrifically mutilated in both storylines. mance's role was stupid and superfluous.

no one wants to see sansa get shit on anymore - especially not by retard ramsay - but the character has to actually DO something, and they already completed her book alayne stone character development. i also don't think it's guaranteed that she'll regress or fail, it really depends on whether or not there's an actual ultimate purpose for her in the books i think.

this season is accelerating stannis's march so it can conclude with the conflict at winterfell. similarly, daeny's plotline is pushing her and her host's forced exit from meereen this season, i believe.

the vale is out of play because the lysa storyline concluded. riverrun is out of play because cat is dead and presumably their entire host was eradicated. i enjoyed jaime's storyline in the book but it really had no foreseeable purpose. none of the dornish characters have a case for screen time except for arianne(who is the same idiot split as the sandsnakes+ellaria in the show, and because oberyn existed as a character that had significant screen time, it makes logical sense to put the emphasis on his side of the family) and prince doran. jaime+bronne makes more sense than their book alternatives because jaime has to do something relevant. the iron islands are out of play because they're definitively irrelevant.

so who are we left with, arya has the same story except with j'aqen h'ghar because people like the character and the citadel is written out. cersei has the same story with all the fat cut out. jon's story is basically still catching up but will end at the same place without some of the fat.

i dunno, it doesn't seem that bad (yet). yes, there is huge room for disappointment w/ sansa (though nothing has actually even occurred), and it's easy to be hyperbolic about daeny when you have a fight scene as bad as the one last episode, but she has to get the fuck out of meereen and her literal movement back west happens this season instead of sometime in book 6 or 7 or whenever it's planned. the rest makes a lot of sense because it recenters the main characters and main plots (and again, nothing of significance has even happened yet)

[Yohan]

I actually agree with most of the stuff written, it's just that the fat being trimmed is some of the more enjoyable content to me. Not every character has to be pivotal to the story, in my opinion.

[wheels]

I haven't had time to read the thread, and I'm an episode behind on the show, just dropping in to say I'm really glad this thread exists and I cannot agree more with what I'm assuming drizzle wrote in here

[drizzle]

guess Jorah's greyscale is the final nail in Yung Griff's coffin and also confirms that Jorah was going to die in the books anyway

[wheels]

I have serious problems with swapping Sansa for Jeyne Poole.

Why not recast Ilyn Payne? Bronn the upjumped Lordling was a far more interesting story.

Who is going to be Darkstar in all this? Who does Areo Hotah get to decapitate? (That happened, right?)

Aemon dying at castle black is a wtf moment, is Sam not going to Oldtown now?

If Arya doesn't spend an episode warging into a cat I'm gonna shit

[wheels]

Jorah is john connington too, right? All these composite characters are baffling.

[drizzle]

I have serious problems with swapping Sansa for Jeyne Poole.

this really fucks Littlefinger's entire story line and character. there is no way to really interpret him putting his prised possession into the hands of a sadist that's about to get invaded that sounds like a good plan in any shape or form. it also forces him to action of some sort, as opposed to him waiting things out and consolidating power in the Veil.

the Dorne shit is dumb but it's dumb in the books too and there was no way for them to adapt everything as written. I enjoy philosophical Jaime figuring things out at Riverrun, but it would be a momentum killer in the scope of a TV show. Bronn would get written out entirely bc they're not going into the details of Cercei's minor power plays in Kings Landing. The book version of Dorne wouldn't play well either, too much to explain and none of it is particularly interesting. So I can see why they decided to use these characters in this way, they're just not doing a good job with it.

[drizzle]

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HMMMMM

glad Urine is back but how the fuck are they going to retrofit everything that's supposed to be happening on the Iron Islands but didn't

I guess Sam is going down south after all too? Maybe he'll escape with Shereen or something, it serves teh same purpose as him taking Mance's boy in the books

[drizzle]

Wait is Balon still alive in the show? I thought they mentioned him dying in passing or soemthing

[EMCEE DARTH MALEK]

Wait is Balon still alive in the show? I thought they mentioned him dying in passing or soemthing

red witch predicted he'd die, but in this recent ep she was like "my magic works i killed robb stark, joffrey, " and then stannis cuts her off

so it seems like they're deliberately not going there yet

[ric]

i havent read one bit of this thread (in order to avoid spoilers) but for what its worth the main reason to me why the books will prolly always eat the show is because the books are superior not only because of what happens but because of the mood and the details that are revealed and how they are revealed. its not even about the world (which is awesome) its about the unveiling of the world (i mean really literally each character gets to notice things and focus on things that every other character does not without the fact of us getting to look through anybody but the details that are offered). i mean you just cannot fucking capture that shit in a new medium no matter how detailed your costumes and sets are. period.

peace for now.

[Guun]

There's a theory floating around that the sand snakes will convince Bronn to save/kill Myrcella (He essentially becomes Arys Oakheart) and then will get his noggin knocked off by Areo Hotah and the sand snakes will be imprisoned.

[drizzle]

There's a theory floating around that the sand snakes will convince Bronn to save/kill Myrcella (He essentially becomes Arys Oakheart) and then will get his noggin knocked off by Areo Hotah and the sand snakes will be imprisoned.

what's the point of this, just to maim Myrcella and get rid of Bronn? It doesn't really fit Bronn's character, the whole Arys thing revolved around him being a thirsty virgin who got led astray by some spicy poon...

[Yohan]

How did everyone feel about the Hardhome episode? A Tyrion/Dany sequence and of the course the epic showdown at Hardhome itself. I personally loved it, excellent episode and perhaps one of the best (or perhaps the single best) episode of the entire show. Redeems a lot of corny Dornish scenes and hopefully the Dany storyline will start to pick up from now on.

[Ramen]

I don't read the books but I seen the internet calling dude the Night King? I looked it up on Wikipedia and found nothing about the Night King being the head white walker. I need answers bros.

[drizzle]

excellent episode and perhaps one of the best (or perhaps the single best) episode of the entire show.

It was a great episode but calling it the best overall feels like a reach. Blackwater was a better battle episode, Red Wedding was a much better moment, etc... This is just the first truly great episode that feels like it's putting the narrative back on track to good things, after 7 middling ones where it seemed like the show has lost its way.


I'm really curious about the implications of Sansa finding out about Bran and Rickon. Rickon specifically, he just dropped out of focus when everybody split and everybody just kinda forgot about him.... but this is a male Stark heir that is neither tied up with Night's watch nor a wizard in training, ie. an actual viable hope for putting the Stark dynasty back on track. If the show is making a point of Sansa finding out he's alive, I guess he is going to come back into play after all.

[Ramen]

Did osha give a reason why she took dude to Skagos? Seems like a shitty place.

[drizzle]

i think the idea was to stash him away as remotely as possible.

[Ramen]

I see. The little info aboit it on wiki doesn't make it sound too pleasant, hope the young Lord makes it.

[Yohan]

excellent episode and perhaps one of the best (or perhaps the single best) episode of the entire show.

It was a great episode but calling it the best overall feels like a reach. Blackwater was a better battle episode, Red Wedding was a much better moment, etc... This is just the first truly great episode that feels like it's putting the narrative back on track to good things, after 7 middling ones where it seemed like the show has lost its way.


I'm really curious about the implications of Sansa finding out about Bran and Rickon. Rickon specifically, he just dropped out of focus when everybody split and everybody just kinda forgot about him.... but this is a male Stark heir that is neither tied up with Night's watch nor a wizard in training, ie. an actual viable hope for putting the Stark dynasty back on track. If the show is making a point of Sansa finding out he's alive, I guess he is going to come back into play after all.

I'm fully willing to concede that I wrote my statement right after watching the episode, heart still racing in my chest. You're right - there have been better episodes.

Are they skipping the entire battle for Mereen by the way? Seems like there is no way to get the Yunkai/Astapor tensions leading up to the assault in 2 episodes. Basically just Dany flying off on Drogon after mayhem went down in the pit? Odds on the final scene of the season Dany meeting with the khalesar?

[drizzle]

Yea that's my thinking too re: Danny too, but I'm wondering if they're really gonna separate her and Tyrion so soon after bringing them together? Maybe Tyrion is replacing Barristan as the guy who has to try to keep things together in her absence? Not for nothing too, she doesn't really HAVE to wander the desert in a puddle of shit and blood to figure out how to work the dragon.

[Yohan]

Yea that's my thinking too re: Danny too, but I'm wondering if they're really gonna separate her and Tyrion so soon after bringing them together? Maybe Tyrion is replacing Barristan as the guy who has to try to keep things together in her absence? Not for nothing too, she doesn't really HAVE to wander the desert in a puddle of shit and blood to figure out how to work the dragon.

I wonder if Dany meeting the khalesar is vital to the plot. That, of course, hasn't been established yet in the books. The fact that GRRM ends the Dany storyline in ADWD on that note leads me to believe it kind of is a big deal and should she lead the khalesar to Mereen it could shift the tide in the battle yet to come. But then again, you have poor Victarion racing to Mereen as well which has been cut as well as no Yunkai/Astapoor army. If there's not battle to lose or win, the khalesar might be useless, when it concerns the show and could be cut entirely.

And as you say, there are many other plot devices for Dany to learn how to control Drogon. But the build-up for the reopening of the fighting pits is too big to ignore, and I'm guessing it kind of plays out the same in the books as in the show: Drogon lands, everybody goes apeshit and Dany flies off, saving the city in the process. I'm wondering if they leave the attempted poisoning in it. Hasn't Tyron alluded to this in the last episode as well?

[drizzle]

what if jorah is somehow the one who ends up poisoned? neat way to leave that in but make do without Belwas

I think you're on the money with the Khaleesar being crucial to the situation in the book but not so much without an actual battle brewing

oddly enough, it seems like next season they're actually casting pirates/sailors, so maybe VicVic still has some role to play going forward?

[Yohan]

what if jorah is somehow the one who ends up poisoned? neat way to leave that in but make do without Belwas

I think you're on the money with the Khaleesar being crucial to the situation in the book but not so much without an actual battle brewing

oddly enough, it seems like next season they're actually casting pirates/sailors, so maybe VicVic still has some role to play going forward?

Interesting. Jorah is very disposable at the moment and I think both Dany and Tyron are dead set on him never returning to her Queensguard / advisory body. It could be the last heroic act of a man desperately in love with her. Could very well happen. How would this play out though? Jorah emerges as victor in the pit, is sent to Dany because heroics and then somehow gets poisoned?

Not sure about Victarion. Strictly speaking from the show point of view, I could see the Krakens being cut from this season as it was already jam packed with different storylines and locations. As some storylines are concluded, others could open which might leave some room for the Kingsmoot (story has to pick up here, otherwise it makes no sense for viewers). Besides, we haven't seen Yara/Asha as well this entire season and they haven't explained where she went or what she's doing right now. Quite frankly, I can't see them picking up this storyline as late as it is. By the time Vicky reaches Mereen, Dany should already be on her way to Westeros, otherwise the storyline will probably be developing too slow to remain interesting.

Maybe they are giving the Ironborn something to do in Westeros. With Stannis on the march they might prove to be an ally or a third faction in the war for the Iron Throne (counting Stannis, Tommon and Krakens as three, leaving out Dany and Dorne). I'm curious to see where they're going with it.

Or Salaadhor Saan is going to wreck shit as he backs Stannis and they're casting new pirates for his fleet? Seems like a stretch though.

[drizzle]

it bothers me that the show never established Balon's death. it seems like the books had some significance placed on it beyond the implication that Euron hired a faceless man to do it. it was even mentioned in the prophecy the old lady tells Arya way back when she was wondering with the Brotherhood.

[drizzle]

man....