Greatest SAMURAI flicks EVER...LIST...?

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Jorel
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Post by Jorel »

drizzle wrote:After helping Tokugawa come to power, the Yaguy family was granted damiyo status, it's retainers were considered to be the shogun's private enforcers/spies. The word ninja implies 'secret agent', so while I might have gotten a bit ornate with the description the fact remains they were a lot more than just fencing instructors

yes the Yagyu family were more then fencing instructors. they were "Samurai"... an honorable bunch, Not ninja.

like i said, pick up the classic book "The Book of Family Traditions on the Art of War" by Yagyu Munenori. i dunno, maybe it'll clear up all these movie fiction fantasies for you... Maybe.

peace

Jorel
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Post by Jorel »

StormShadow wrote:OH YEAH WELL YOU GUYS ARE BOTH WRONG

First of all, the Yagyu clan was Chinese, NOT Korean! And Jubei DID have an eyepatch... A magic one! He lost his right eye due to dragon fire and thus had an invincible eye patch created... for his LEFT eye! That's right he could see through it and the eyepatch was fireproof! Also, he invented gas-x because his wife was always complaining about nocturnal emissions.
HILARIOUS! :lol:

drizzle
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Post by drizzle »

^^^ Nothing personal, but i think you're being a little naive here as far as bushido and the moral code and all that goes

While morally speaking the ideas behind the art of ninjitsu were directly opposed to the samurai code, retainers from many families were often trained in ninjitsu in secret. Ninjitsu is a martial art, Samurai is a cast, these two are not mutually exclusive by any means.

Inevitably, every group following a strict moral code is discovered to be corrupt or indulging in hypocrytical behaviour from within - sometimes as a matter of survival and sometimes due simply to weakness of human nature. Why would the Samurai be any different? The history of japan is full of lying, cheating, double crossing and murder, just like any other country.

BTW, I have not read the book and so I don't clame any authority on what's in it, but just a general thought - a family member writing a book outlining his family philosphy as a testament to the ages - any chance he'd be just a little bit biased? Just a little inclined to paint his family in the best way possible? But then again, for all I know he alludes to his family's historical transgressions on page 1, so I might be totally wrong here.
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Jorel
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Post by Jorel »

have you got any proof that the yagyu clan are really just a bunch ninja's? i mean... other then media, and imagination?

drizzle
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Post by drizzle »

You're totally missing the point of what i'm trying to say, or just deliberatly ignoring it.

Books are media last time i checked, which invalidates your own argument by your own logic. One thing i have to say is that judging by your opinions your ideas of what ninjas and samurais were, are far more cinematic than anything I wrote anywhere in here. Even while I was exaggerating somewhat originally (as I already admitted), at no time did i mean that Muneyoshi, Minenori or Jubei went around scaling walls in black pajamas, which is what you want me to prove apparently. Ninjas as you seem to imagine them did not actually exist.

Whatever, this is a pointless argument. I could site a couple of sources that back up what I actually mean, that still doesn't prove or help anything. History is mostly subjective and you seem to be just as set in your opinion as I am in mine.
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Jorel
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Post by Jorel »

i'm confused

first you go on and say that the yagyu clan were a bunch of ruthless ninjas, that ruled the country of japan from the shadows. then you say you exagerated and that they arn't really ninja's but they studied ninjitsu in secret but they wern't ninja's... they were more then just fencing instructors, they were the spies and enforcers of the shogun.

and now you're saying i'm deluded because there is no difference between being a samurai and ninja?

:wtf:

last time i picked up a history book it stated that daimyo would not use their own men as ninja because ninja did not follow bushido. the samurai code forbade using dishonorable tactics. Especially in the tokugawa era where bushido became fuedal law.

"in case any of the samurai in our employ or others our subordinates should be guilty of rebellion or homicide, and the fact be reported to us, we mutually engage to one another that we shall not take the offender into our employ." -3rd oath-

A daimyo could not expect his own troops to perform shady tasks so they would instead buy or broker the assistance of ninja to perform selective strikes, espionage, assassination, and infiltration of enemy strongholds.

yagyu clan are famous for their sword style... i have never heard them to be factually involved in disreguarding their bushido, and had been training secretly in the ways of ninjitsu. They may have knew of ninjitsu, but for them to have been controling the whole of japan from the shadows or for the shogun by employing such practice is highly plausible And only seen in movies


by the way, english is my second language so my bad if my choice wording was wrong. when i said "media" i ment "movie"

darkwingduck
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Post by darkwingduck »

listen...THEY did do NINJA shit!!! Straight UP!!! Plus they did the whole bushido school thing for Tokogawa...DONT SLEEP!

Jorel
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Post by Jorel »

darkwingduck wrote:listen...THEY did do NINJA shit!!! Straight UP!!! Plus they did the whole bushido school thing for Tokogawa...DONT SLEEP!
other then teach the shogun how to be a bad ass swordfighter.

what ninja shit did they do?

360
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Post by 360 »

Also, one must note that Seven Samurai is not only one of the greatest samurai flicks ever made, but easily one of the greatest flicks ever made, period.






"Again we've been defeated."

360
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Post by 360 »

Interesting that no one has mentioned Throne of Blood, yet.

It's Akira Kurosawa's rumination of Macbeth set as a dark samurai drama in feudal Japan.


I mean come on.

drizzle
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Post by drizzle »

^^ both of these were a given man, you start with kurosawa when it comes to serious samurai cinema

we were pretty much talking about the lesser known but still really good stuff in here, before it decended into utter fuckery over the last 2 pages

the title's a bit misleading now i suppose
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Jorel
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Post by Jorel »

i have no idea how you precive this to be utter fuckery but.
drizzle wrote: Jubei really was a wondering swordsman and he really was one eyed.
drizzle wrote:As far as Jubei, the EYEPATCH is 100% false, but a number historical legends maintain that he had use of only 1 eye - this is where they got the idea for the eyepatch in the first place. The fact is that very little is actually known about him factually, so nobody knows for sure.
was enough for me to question your sources about japanese history.

i ain't no japanese professor, but i am japanese and i can see that your learned history is differently from the history i know. Which is interesting

peace

StormShadow
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Post by StormShadow »

guys who is kurosawa

bruce lee samurai flick with that dude with the claw hand

darkwingduck
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Post by darkwingduck »

Jorel wrote:what ninja shit did they do?
my general thought about people in power is that they do have sides to them that are kept secret or things about them that are not told to the general public for fear of backlash or complications with their roll or position. History books do speak about truth, but they also neglect to highlight other important facts that are not known, or are looked down upon.

anywho...

I just ran into this jawn at the bookstore today...Wonderin if this is a must have...? Tatsuya Nakadai is in it so Im sure its a MUST...



Image
Last edited by darkwingduck on Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

drizzle
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Post by drizzle »

darkwingduck wrote:
I just ran into this jawn at the bookstore today...Wonderin if this is a must have...?

Image
definitely - Gosha + Nakadai = hot fyre
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cascarrabias
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Post by cascarrabias »

drizzle wrote:utter fuckery

darkwingduck
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Post by darkwingduck »

Image

whats the verdict...?

drizzle
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Post by drizzle »

^^^^ Great, well worth your time

Sanada came a long way from being Sonny Chiba's boy wonder in the 70's/early 80's
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darkwingduck
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Post by darkwingduck »

homeboy just watched it...said it made him cry....WTF???

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Post by drizzle »

darkwingduck wrote:homeboy just watched it...said it made him cry....WTF???
Image

".....even had big shwartzanegger type niggas cryin....."

jokes aside, it's not that sad so i don't know....does your boy have some emotional attachment to the fall of the samurai class during the meinji period?
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Post by four_see »

twilight samurais a dope flick

my aunt cried when i watched it w/her so i guess its sad towards the end

StormShadow
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Post by StormShadow »

AnimEigo wrote:We're pleased to announce 5 new licenses, all coming out in 2007!

Dora-heita: Koheita Mochizuki (Koji Yakusho of Shall We Dance, The Eel), has such a bad reputation that he's earned the nickname Dora-Heita, or "alley cat" (meaning "playboy"). So it's a real shock when he's named magistrate of the most disreputable town in all of Japan! But his rep is just a clever cover which he uses to set about cleaning up the town, resulting in everyone, even the young samurai hotheads who ought to be supporting him, wanting to see him dead, if for very different reasons. And the appearance of an old mistress doesn't make his life any less complicated. Directed by Kon Ichikawa from a script by Kon Ichikawa, Masaki Kobayashi, Keisuke Kinoshita, and Akira Kurosawa!

We continue with another of the Kon-artist's great films, Kon Ichikawa's 47 Ronin, starring Ken Takakura (4-time Japanese Academy Award winner) with an all star cast. The 47 Ronin is one of the classic Japanese stories, and has been remade and reinterpreted many times. This version adds new dimensions to narrative, as it focuses on what went on behind the scenes leading up to the famous attack of the ronin.

Shinsengumi (aka "Band of Assassins") is another top-notch Toshiro Mifune film. In this historical drama set during the time of the Meiji Restoration, he stars as Isami Kondo, an idealistic warrior who organizes a paramilitary group that supports the Shogun in his battle against the Emperor. But when the Imperial side wins, the Shinsengumi are declared outlaws...

The Wolves: Tatsuya Nakadai (Ran,Portrait of Hell) stars as a Yakuza who gets out of jail only to find that his gang has been crippled and absorbed by another gang -- the one whose boss he killed! Directed by Hideo Gosha.

And finally, we end with another Kihachi Okamoto masterpiece, The Battle of Okinawa, which also stars Tatsuya Nakadai.

The war is lost, but the Japanese military decides to make a last stand before retreating to the homeland. If they can make the cost of capturing Okinawa too high, then perhaps the Americans will think twice about invading Japan. To this end, the orders given to the soldiers and the civilians are quite simple: fight until everyone is dead!
I didn't think Dora-heita was great, and I haven't seen the others, but this is pretty awesome news.

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Post by drizzle »

the wolves is supposed to be awesome,

gosha/nakadai vs kurosawa/mifune is a fun thing to ponder

don't know about the other ones, what's Dore Heita like?

Anemeigo just put out a nice little chambara called Trail of Blood, pretty fun, worth checking out

Panic house has got some chambara-ish meiji era yakuza flicks coming out, one even with sonny chiba aka god supposedly, that's what i'm really psyched for. the shit the put out last year was insane
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Post by StormShadow »

Well the most notable thing about Dora Heita is that it was written by Ichikawa, Kurosawa, Kinoshita, and Kobayashi. Oh and your boy Bunta's in the movie, but I don't remember much about him because I didn't know who he was when I saw it. It's just kind of a samurai comedy thing. It's not bad, but not extremely memorable (as you might be able to tell from my lack of detail).

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Post by StormShadow »

Oh shit. Just realized the 'most notable' part of my post was already in the information I posted. I didn't even bother to read the fucking thing, just scanned it for the names of the movies.

drizzle
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Post by drizzle »

is there any action in it?
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StormShadow
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Post by StormShadow »

Eh, there was probably some at the end.


It wasn't really an actiony movie from what I recall.

drizzle
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Post by drizzle »

fuck it then

on teh totally separate note, i'm gonna order that vhs from revenge is my destiny, i found a review and screencaps for what i'm hoping is the same vhs version, shit's all positive
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darkwingduck
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Post by darkwingduck »

Image

fucking fantastic movie. I love this shit and the title is ILL!!!! It kinda ends weird...Was a sequel made? Or was one slated to be made, but never happened...?

drizzle
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Post by drizzle »

i don't think there was a sequel, def not in the conventional sence. the ending is not really a cliffhanger, it's supposed to show him in the perpetual state of madness

the thing is, this story is popular in japan and you're supposed to be kinda familiar with it going in. it's been done several times, i think the Sword of Doom is the definitive version. This is all in teh liner notes for the dvd, btw, they're pretty slammin
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