When it is time to call it quits?

[Philaflava]

This isn't directed at any one in particular, but to the general audience that has a career in music.

There has been an overwhelming amount of trials and tribulation-like threads on these boards from various rappers. Some have officially called it quits and have taken on 9-5's. Some just grow tired of the lifestyle and move on like Supastition or Alaska.

While trying to make this an honest discussion without bashing the favorite targets, can those who are in this music game speak on this issue?

I realize not everybody will follow the same path as Sean, and even some underground kings such as El-P will have to close shop and switch-up speeds.

So for the rappers on this board, at what age or point in your life do you decide to call it quits if you aren't achieving the success you had once set out for yourself?

[The Aluminum Falcon]

this thread is going to hurt.

I think as long as people are passionate about music and can make ends meet it's on them.

[Philaflava]

this thread is going to hurt.

Yes, but only if it's honest.

I think as long as people are passionate about music and can make ends meet it's on them.

Sure, but who wants to always go living on ends meet? Not that it should come down to the house, car, and all the material items that most rappers talk about, but what about not being stuck in a Munich airport cuz funds are fucked up? What about not sleeping on a floor in some city because you can't afford a hotel room? What about being able to actually save money for retirement? How about being able to eat a good meal that doesn't consist of Ramen Noodles with a Stoop Kid recipe?

[Sankofa]

When it's no longer fun. The goal I set was to work on my craft and enjoy myself in the process. I knew early on it would never be a revenue stream and am lucky enough to have a job I enjoy.

[Thun]

Not an artist, but this is the truth:

Making music for yourself and your friends with no intentions or expectations to "blow up" - no time limit.

Everything else - 35, tops.

[Philaflava]

When it's no longer fun.

Is rap your only source of income?

[Sankofa]

When it's no longer fun.

Is rap your only source of income?

[iCONtheMicKing]

Oh would you look at that...I inspired a thread.

[The Aluminum Falcon]

Sure, but who wants to always go living on ends meet? Not that it should come down to the house, car, and all the material items that most rappers talk about, but what about not being stuck in a Munich airport cuz funds are fucked up? What about not sleeping on a floor in some city because you can't afford a hotel room? What about being able to actually save money for retirement? How about being able to eat a good meal that doesn't consist of Ramen Noodles with a Stoop Kid recipe?

that sounds more like somebody with dependency issues who needs a job.

[the brow]

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[Employee]

If you're thirty and you dont

-Have several albums and various projects out
-Have any publishing
-Have any imprint of your own
-Have any management
-Have any kind of publicity
-Have no street team
-Have an ongoing merchandising business

Get the fuck out and save your own life. iCON is a cool cat and can rap his ass off when he wants to. But he's starting threads about being caught up in Europe without even basic shit like shelter. And he's been rapping for what? Fifteen solid years at least. There's a disconnect between you and who is hearing you. It doesn't mean someone's weak, but it does mean they've more or less hit their ceiling (nh). Cadence Weapon accomplished more than most cats ever will before he was in his mid-twenties. There was something about dude that made people want to actually financially throw their support in his corner.

Everyone else is identical to the person before them or the one waiting in the wings. Hence my criticisms of the Scen track. Dude is completely indistinguishable and provides no incentive for me to revisit his music. Generic aesthetics and their widespread acceptance have certainly infused an odd brand of hope in some of these no-namers, but what will they be doing when they're thirty-five? Selling car insurance. It's a fact.

Some cats have the work ethic to compliment their talent. 9,999,999 out of 10,000,000 don't.

[Comedy Quaddafi]

Well some people deluded themselves to think they are 'artists' and they won't budge from that pipe-dream no matter how many wake-up calls they receive. I suspect it's fuelled by megalomania, delusion and a really weird sense of entitlement spawned early in childhood.

[iCONtheMicKing]

iCON is a cool cat and can rap his ass off when he wants to. But he's starting threads about being caught up in Europe without even basic shit like shelter. And he's been rapping for what? Fifteen solid years at least. There's a disconnect between you and who is hearing you. It doesn't mean someone's weak, but it does mean they've more or less hit their ceiling (nh). Cadence Weapon accomplished more than most cats ever will before he was in his mid-twenties. There was something about dude that made people want to actually financially throw their support in his corner.

I wrote that from my hotel in Munich. I'm writing this from my own room a friend's Brooklyn-esque flat in Berlin.

14 years. Getting paid for shows + putting out my own records for 8. I'm also not 30.

Whether you have a job or are a rapper or whatever the fuck...you are most likely living check to check anyway. If that weren't true the world economy wouldn't be the way it is. So I'd MUCH rather be doing what I do seeing the world and doing what I love to be doing than be sitting in a cubicle hating my life counting down to 5pm then going home and wasting my money on shit like getting stupid drunk and buying mad clothes and gadgets to justify me wasting my life doing some shit to make someone else rich.

Definitely hit my ceiling as it stands. We typed about that at length. It is what it is. However most of my issues arise because I am only one person doing the job of at least 7 and I also try to do as many as shows as possible rather than be a diva.

Shouts to Cadence Weapon. I appreciate his success and wish him more of it.

In answer to your question if you don't have kids do whatever you want as long as you want.

holler.

[Philaflava]

14 years. Getting paid for shows + putting out my own records for 8. I'm also not 30.

Honestly this thread wasn't about you, but since you replied let me state the following.

"Getting paid for shows" is great and you know I'm a supporter of you and an enthusiast of your live show as well. Still, the money isn't that great and I know you take many shows on the arm just to travel and get your name out. From the Souls of Mischief shows to the tours with Dos Noun there is very little at the end of the tour, right? And I'm not trying to paint it as you make no money touring because I know the $ is in merch, but I'm speaking in general. To you or any rapper in your situation doing the tours you are doing. Like Sean P barely gets by and he stays doing shows.

Whether you have a job or are a rapper or whatever the fuck...you are most likely living check to check anyway. If that weren't true the world economy wouldn't be the way it is. So I'd MUCH rather be doing what I do seeing the world and doing what I love to be doing than be sitting in a cubicle hating my life counting down to 5pm then going home and wasting my money on shit like getting stupid drunk and buying mad clothes and gadgets to justify me wasting my life doing some shit to make someone else rich.

This is definitely true for many people. The difference is the rap job doesn't have a bright future. It doesn't have consistent work. It doesn't guarantee sales. It doesn't give you a pension. It doesn't match your 401K. It doesn't give you a legitimate future into your 30-40-50's.

This thread isn't about getting a cubicle gig because your rap career doesn't parallel J. Cole's at this point. This is a question to everyone. To Cashmere, to Tui to SBU to Nathan Blaze to PackFM to everyone who raps for a living, when is it okay hang it up?

[ObeseJesus]

In answer to your question if you don't have kids do whatever you want as long as you want.

pretty much. Who the fuck are we to judge when people should stop. Sure, most "rappers" are delusional (not including Icon in this as he seems like one of the more business savvy indie rappers) and won't ever make a sustainable career out of it but if they enjoy what they're doing then fuck it, have fun. You think a cat like Mindbender can all of a sudden stop and get an office job? He'd go crazy (I know, too late). Some people would rather live less comfortable and pursue what they love and I can't hate on that.

[Philaflava]

It's not about anyone judging. The question was to rappers and their opinions of their own situations. Your right, if somebody is doing what they love and touring the world then who the hell am I to say different? But at the end of the day, let's have a serious conversation about the future of these people and the situations they're in.

We all know this game doesn't pan out the way many of us would have liked. We all know some of the biggest names in the "indie" circuit are no longer around. Wouldn't it be selfish to think you'll beat the odds and become the next thing? The question is given your situation when is it okay for you to stop rapping and start over?

[Comedy Quaddafi]

In answer to your question if you don't have kids do whatever you want as long as you want.

pretty much. Who the fuck are we to judge when people should stop. Sure, most "rappers" are delusional (not including Icon in this as he seems like one of the more business savvy indie rappers) and won't ever make a sustainable career out of it but if they enjoy what they're doing then fuck it, have fun. You think a cat like Mindbender can all of a sudden stop and get an office job? He'd go crazy (I know, too late). Some people would rather live less comfortable and pursue what they love and I can't hate on that.

But most 'artists' I know are on welfare. That takes the 'whatever, just have fun' argument out of the equation, atleast for me. Don't leech on other people because you think you're too special to have a job.

[iCONtheMicKing]

Honestly this thread wasn't about you, but since you replied let me state the following.

"Getting paid for shows" is great and you know I'm a supporter of you and an enthusiast of your live show as well. Still, the money isn't that great and I know you take many shows on the arm just to travel and get your name out. From the Souls of Mischief shows to the tours with Dos Noun there is very little at the end of the tour, right? And I'm not trying to paint it as you make no money touring because I know the $ is in merch, but I'm speaking in general. To you or any rapper in your situation doing the tours you are doing. Like Sean P barely gets by and he stays doing shows.

Whether or not it was about me I answered it based on my experience. Surely you prefer that to conjecture about other people's personal lives?

I don't know Sean P's financial status. Nor do I care. However I do know he is in his mid to late 30s with children. I imagine his overhead is lot more than mine.

"Taking shows on the arm" isn't as commonplace for me as you made it seem. More isolated incidents. Yeah I did that Souls of Mischief tour in 07 for free because I had an album out and Uprising Records didn't do anything they said they would about getting me on tour so I jumped on it last minute to move the record. Other free shows are favors but my allies are few so they are rare.

This is definitely true for many people. The difference is the rap job doesn't have a bright future. It doesn't have consistent work. It doesn't guarantee sales. It doesn't give you a pension. It doesn't match your 401K. It doesn't give you a legitimate future into your 30-40-50's.

In this economy what non-government job does have a bright future? Nothing guarantees sales. One could waste their years in a "safe" job and be fired any day at the whim of management.

Retirement, pensions, and 401ks are fantastic. But living to make sure you're set for when you can no longer enjoy anything is the most asinine shared idea in the world.

[Sucka Ducka]

I completed an EP which is being mastered, plus various guest spots for other peoples projects and then random tracks here and there as well as a "joke" album. I just finished building a studio in my basement, yet I have very little plans for music from this point forward, other than completing obligations for other peoples projects who are making moves. I might keep making beats on the side. I have a year left of college. I feel like I spent over a decade getting good at something I will never use in life. I'm quite sure had my time been spent on other interests/hobbies I would have a lot more to show. Internet, video games, television, and all poor eating are also things I'm trying to cut completely from my life. I am exactly 2 years away from being 30 (my birthday was yesterday) so the goals this year and going into the future are:
-finish up college
-look more closely at various business ideas I have, consider developing one
-consider what I am going to do with my degree
-focus on my health
-start "dating" again rather than bringing slores home
-profit!

Even making music for fun with no plans to blow up definitely can eat up a lot of time that could be spent doing other things. I don't see the attractiveness of an underground rap "career", so getting paid (small amounts) wouldn't change much about how I feel.

[GM Dizzy Skillespie]

It's not about anyone judging. The question was to rappers and their opinions of their own situations. Your right, if somebody is doing what they love and touring the world then who the hell am I to say different? But at the end of the day, let's have a serious conversation about the future of these people and the situations they're in.

this is contradictory. you're throwing judgment by the dozens because at the end of the day the question you're asking reads like a blatant sales pitch to guilt someone into starting a retirement fund.

to which rappers say:

[quote="iCONtheMicKing]Retirement, pensions, and 401ks are fantastic. But living to make sure you're set for when you can no longer enjoy anything is the most asinine shared idea in the world.[/quote]

and they're right. because rappers are nihilists, son.

[still illiterate]

a lot of people don't have long term plans. are rappers any different then the 35 year old working at a gas station. both probably have nothing in savings, no other skills, no future. a rapper is doing what they love, however.

it's odd that people think you can only do one thing though. i know it's different being a producer. i can work 8 hours a day, work on tracks 2 hours a day, still have plenty of time for the rest of my life

[Fuzzy Logic]

I exist outside this discussion as human monolith

[Philaflava]

are rappers any different then the 35 year old working at a gas station. both probably have nothing in savings, no other skills, no future. a rapper is doing what they love, however.

The suicide hotline is about to blow the fuck up.

[Smitty]

The bigger question is, why do you care so much? These issues come up over and over again, esp. re: MB, and your questions are always the same.

You think people who've put every notion of living a "normal" life aside to do the thing they've wanted to do since they were children give a fuck about a 401k? ROFLZ. You talking about retirement plans with underground rappers is like talking to Dennis Rodman's dad about parenting skills. Completely irrelevant.

A "career" in independent music does impart a skill set to the right candidates that can be utilized in certain workplaces. Yes, I know Canadia does commit more money to community and arts programs than the US, but there are ten times as many people and a hundred times as much money there, opportunities exist. Parlaying the experiences you have in the world of arts and entertainment into a "real" job is essential to most musicians livelihood, whether during the major commitment of trying to "make it", or post.

That said, if you are in music because you genuinely believe that you will shoot to superstardom and solve all your problems with a hit record then you are truly an insane person, and likely, an idiot. Unless you are a preternaturally talented genius you are fucking crazy, and even then, there is no guarantee that you will be successful in the realms of commerce and music.

[Orale Holmes]

whats the age of eligibility for social security?

[Comedy Quaddafi]

I exist outside this discussion as human monolith

[The Ivy League Nigga]

If you're an aspiring artist you should have a day job until your art can support you. As long as you're doing that: pursue your dream as long as you want to. Who cares.

But, I'd say calling yourself a "rapper" (or a "writer" or a "painter" or a "filmmaker") when it doesn't account for at least 51% of your income and/or notoriety is incredibly disingenuous and is sure to annoy everyone you come in contact with.

[Comedy Quaddafi]

The bigger question is, why do you care so much? These issues come up over and over again, esp. re: MB, and your questions are always the same.

Because we wish we also had an extraordinary and logic-defying selfbelief and we also want to be recognized for doing something other than mundane tasks any person could carry out, yet we weren't born irresponsibly enough to throw caution to the wind - so we chose to educate ourselves in applicable sciences but secretly most of wish we were colored even ever-so-slightly so perhaps we could be awesome rappers?

[Philaflava]

The bigger question is, why do you care so much?

Because this is a discussion board where we discuss things.
Because every topic known to mankind has already been discussed before.
Because as time goes on, things change for people so the question will always be relevant.
Because rappers like YOU seem to always get a bit emo over the big dilemma.

[iCONtheMicKing]

Because we wish we also had an extraordinary and logic-defying selfbelief and we also want to be recognized for doing something other than mundane tasks any person could carry out, yet we weren't born irresponsibly enough to throw caution to the wind - so we chose to educate ourselves in applicable sciences but secretly most of wish we were colored even ever-so-slightly so perhaps we could be awesome rappers?

this.

oh and I got some other money making skills besides rapping.... but you know stripping for myjah gets old.