LYRICALLY

Tweak Da Leak · Post by **Tweak Da Leak** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:49 pm

Soul On Ice vs Illmatic

ignore everything except rapping forte on these albums, which is better in terms of lyrics?

Balzac · Post by **Balzac** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:55 pm

illmatic is more poetic, soul on ice is more rappy.

i vote illmatic

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:34 pm

They are close, but Illmatic wins because the lyrics are filled with difficult allusions, abstraction, and metaphor, but the songs as a whole are never difficult to decipher, which is something that only Nas and Rakim seem to pull off consistently. The perfect construction and delivery of the verses renders everything crystal clear. It's known as a landmark moment in rapping for a reason. Some of the artistic decisions that are made on this album are pretty daring: an epistolary song, a "back in the days" song that is really a rap version of "Goodfellas" and thus completely different from anything in rap before it, placing a mellow but optimistic song right next to one that is practically smooth jazz but depressing as hell, et.

Soul On Ice isn't nearly as challenging or rewarding, but Ras Kass's style is unique and the whole album flows convincingly like the journal/manifesto of an angry young black man, hence Soul On Ice. But it's no Illmatic.

blessingindisguise · Post by **blessingindisguise** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:36 pm

Illmatic by a narrow edge. Ras kass brillant demolishing of white supremacy partly based off Isis Papers on "Soul on ice", his laid back but nonchalant of hustling on "anything goes", and poignant take on the East/west beef on "sonset" is just as good as Nas dropping sage like wsidom on "one love", describing the crime ridden bleak surroundings of ny on "new york state of mind" and smooth yet hard lyricism on "it ain't hard to tell".

Great thread though tweak.

Comedy Quaddafi · Post by **Comedy Quaddafi** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:41 pm

blessingindisguise wrote:Ras kass brillant demolishing of white supremacy partly based off Isis Papers on "Soul on ice"

Ahem, that book was written by a crazy woman with the research-ethics of a highschool freshman. Anyway, I prefer the angry and personal lyrics on Soul On Ice, most notably The Evil That Men Do and Miami Life.

Yohan · Post by **Yohan** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:42 pm

It's kind of redundant adding anything after Thun has spoke his piece. Even as a young bork I agree with everything said by the above three posters.

I love both albums to death though.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:46 pm

Comedy Quaddafi wrote:
blessingindisguise wrote:Ras kass brillant demolishing of white supremacy partly based off Isis Papers on "Soul on ice"
Ahem, that book was written by a crazy woman with the research-ethics of a highschool freshman.

Yeah but in 1997 in texts like this were in wide circulation and contributed to a retrospectively retarded but at the time fun and intriguing climate of pre-millenial paranoia, especially for those of us in high school or college at the time. The Isis Papers is every bit as much a part of hip hop culture in 1997 as hi-top fades were in 1987. You had to be there, I guess.

Comedy Quaddafi · Post by **Comedy Quaddafi** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:51 pm

I actually enjoyed reading it but when I got to the part where she explains how the cross represent the castration of black penis I stopped taking it serious and just went along for the ride. How he executed it [Ras] was pretty much perfect and he deserves infinite respect for making comfy whites soak their woobie with tears.

Edit: I really contradict myself here

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:01 pm

Comedy Quaddafi wrote:I actually enjoyed reading it but when I got to the part where she explains how the cross represent the castration of black penis I stopped taking it serious and just went along for the ride. How he executed it [Ras] was pretty much perfect and he deserves infinite respect for making comfy whites soak their woobie with tears.

Edit: I really contradict myself here

Haha, it's all good. Trust me, I was able to appreciate what Ras Kass did without uncritically worshiping the source of his inspiration. I was always somehwat wary of all that Behold A Pale Horse and Pawns In the Game stuff, but I'll be damned if "Ordo Ab Chao" isn't the shit.

Jayou Ayen · Post by **Jayou Ayen** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:03 pm

Comedy Quaddafi wrote:Ahem, that book was written by a crazy woman with the research-ethics of a highschool freshman.

39

KITFUNK · Post by **KITFUNK** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:10 pm

SOI

Illmatic is god status and a perfectly reasonable choice, but in terms of lyrics, I have a preference for SOI.

Reelishymn, On Earth As It Is..., title track, Miami Life >

Both Illmatic and SOI are really trim albums in terms of filler percentage, meaning there are a lot of quality songs. Two of the best albums of all time.

Comedy Quaddafi · Post by **Comedy Quaddafi** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:16 pm

On Earth As It Is - maybe the best "biblical" rap song evah? SRY Killah Priest.

YouTube · Post by **Philaflava** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:32 pm

Illmatic.

senorhaha · Post by **senorhaha** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:05 pm

soul on ice by far
"evil that men do" is the "realist" song ever written
fuck poetry

Reason · Post by **Reason** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:11 pm

KITFUNK wrote:SOI

Illmatic is god status and a perfectly reasonable choice, but in terms of lyrics, I have a preference for SOI.

Reelishymn, On Earth As It Is..., title track, Miami Life >

Both Illmatic and SOI are really trim albums in terms of filler percentage, meaning there are a lot of quality songs. Two of the best albums of all time.

illmatic has more multis bro, wrong answer

KITFUNK · Post by **KITFUNK** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:29 pm

Reason wrote:
KITFUNK wrote:SOI

Illmatic is god status and a perfectly reasonable choice, but in terms of lyrics, I have a preference for SOI.

Reelishymn, On Earth As It Is..., title track, Miami Life >

Both Illmatic and SOI are really trim albums in terms of filler percentage, meaning there are a lot of quality songs. Two of the best albums of all time.
illmatic has more multis bro, wrong answer

So this is what you're gonna do? Follow me around the forum talking about multis in EVERY post?

If it was remotely funny it would be acceptable, but it isn't so please stop. Reading your posts are akin to watching a train wreck.

I know you get sad when you read my posts cause you're sensitive and insecure so they make you shed anus tears, but seriously, you're a faggot and you're trying to make a home for yourself in my asshole, but I won't allow it cause you have homo tendencies.

Now get out of my asshole you rice thug.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:30 pm

LOL you multi-jocking sensitive queer.

Reason · Post by **Reason** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:43 pm

win.

KITFUNK · Post by **KITFUNK** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:49 pm

Reason wrote:

win.

No no.

I touch human vagina, THAT's a win.

Reason · Post by **Reason** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:49 pm

unprovoked and continuing on his own volition

win #2

2-0 against this faggot.

KITFUNK · Post by **KITFUNK** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:52 pm

Reason wrote:unprovoked and continuing on his own volition

win #2

2-0 against this faggot.

Saying you win doesn't make you win.

win #3

Womp Womp predictable rice thug.

Hayzoos · Post by **Hayzoos** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:54 pm

Reason wrote:
KITFUNK wrote:SOI

Illmatic is god status and a perfectly reasonable choice, but in terms of lyrics, I have a preference for SOI.

Reelishymn, On Earth As It Is..., title track, Miami Life >

Both Illmatic and SOI are really trim albums in terms of filler percentage, meaning there are a lot of quality songs. Two of the best albums of all time.
illmatic has more multis bro, wrong answer

Made me LOL pretty hard

Mindbender Futurama · Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:01 pm

Thun wrote:
Comedy Quaddafi wrote:
blessingindisguise wrote:Ras kass brillant demolishing of white supremacy partly based off Isis Papers on "Soul on ice"
Ahem, that book was written by a crazy woman with the research-ethics of a highschool freshman.
Yeah but in 1997 in texts like this were in wide circulation and contributed to a retrospectively retarded but at the time fun and intriguing climate of pre-millenial paranoia, especially for those of us in high school or college at the time. The Isis Papers is every bit as much a part of hip hop culture in 1997 as hi-top fades were in 1987. You had to be there, I guess.

Absolutely positive. There were only a few people who really knew why Busta Rhymes was screaming "there's only 5 years left!" and getting excited as well as scurred as fuck when "Everything Remains Raw" dropped. "Behold A Pale Horse" is hip hop as much as RZA's Wu-Tang Manual. It's no irony that Killarmy's "Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars" album is a chapter title in that book.

that said, this is an interesting argument and as a fan of both those MCs and albums, I suggest this new thought on it: Ras Kass probably was a more advanced thinker and lyricist, but Nas was a clearer visionary and a more naturally skilled vocalist, at the time. As lame as a categorization it may be, Ras Kass's rhymes were probably "deeper", but Nas's visions were probably wider, and higher.

"Miami Life" is a slept on masterpiece of a song and if Ras Kass could have made more of those kind of joints instead of the "Anything Goes" variety, then he might have had a better debut year. "Soul On Ice" the title track is also slept on, that shit knocks and is ill. And the Diamond D remix?! Fuck ya life, that song is a timeless moment of genius. "Reelishymn" is also a jammin ass underappreciated track with some amazing lyrics. "Sonset" was basically the best murderous West Coast rebuttal to any and all 90's era East Coast dicklicking that hip hop was doing, and people didn't even want to acknowledge how much of a new asshole Ras Kass ripped people with that song. So many great, but collectively uneven tracks guaranteed Ras Kass's debut would remain slept on.

But Nas made "The World Is Yours" with Pete Rock and the remix with Q-Tip, and those songs own my soul. And "Represent"? Forget about it. I also played "It Aint Hard To Tell" maybe 300 times the month I got it. Nas is God. Ras Kass is Jesus.

Overall, 'Illmatic' may be the better album as far as accomplishing the ideas one seeks to execute, but Ras Kass was secretly the better rapper.

(tomorrow i may think the exact opposite. hip hop is fun)

Comedy Quaddafi wrote:On Earth As It Is - maybe the best "biblical" rap song evah? SRY Killah Priest.

it probably is. shit is fucking phenomenal.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:59 pm

^please post like this more often.

step one · Post by **step one** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:09 am

Thun wrote:^please post like this more often.

coherent MB post with no emoticons

DLG · Post by **DLG** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:15 am

yeah, shit was weird.

GUCCI CONDOMS · Post by **GUCCI CONDOMS** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:45 pm

lyrics maybe, and thats a big maybe, but there is no way ras kass had as good of a delivery as nas

KITFUNK · Post by **KITFUNK** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:49 pm

^ I don't think anyone's willing to debate that.

Smitty · Post by **Smitty** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:11 pm

LOLZ at the whole thread. I had to check the date, was sure it would say January 18, 2001, and even then it woulda been dated. Jeezus.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:23 pm

Smitty wrote:LOLZ at the whole thread. I had to check the date, was sure it would say January 18, 2001, and even then it woulda been dated. Jeezus.

Faggot.