Pharoahe Monch

ardamus · Post by **ardamus** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:28 am

Philaflava wrote:so besides struggling internet rappers, do fans still like him?

Sorry, if we don't share your "If I Was Steve Rifkind" mind state on this one, bruh. Agree to disagree.

Thun wrote:I don't care for his last two albums much. They aren't unlistenable, though, just a different mode than we're used to.

I can dig this right here. I think if Monch kept remaking tracks like "Bring It On", "Simon Says", and etc., that would get old real fast. And we'd have another thread complaining about how he never switches it up to do anything else that could further what he's been doing. Him making songs like "Desire" and etc. to expand on his style works for him.

COOLEHMAGAZINE wrote:Monch >>>Eminem

I have realized that I do not share Monch's taste as far as the overall projects he wants to make. I want him to rap over harder beats and also, push himself further in terms of MC'ing and his production choices. He obviously wants to push the singing and instrumentation angle more, along with concepts that sometimes just don't grab me.

That said, he has never put out anything even remotely wack. It's just not what I want (and possibly not what many of his fans want, either) but there is attention to the craft and plenty of integrity there, so I can't say I hate it just because it's not what I want him to do.

This as opposed to someone like Common who clearly has abandoned things like "respect for the craft", "integrity" and "creativity" in favor of whatever straws can be grasped to pay for his next pedicure.

LOL @ the Common comment. I can dig this, too.

LilLeftBrain · Post by **LilLeftBrain** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:53 am

lol @ "marshall matthews lp'
THIS IS
HELL

Hair of the Dog · Post by **Hair of the Dog** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:08 am

I've only heard 3-4 tracks so far, but I've actually been quite impressed. From what I've heard, dude is definitely not disappointing lyrically. That being said, I get the feeling I've probably heard the tracks that I'll like the most, but I can't imagine this album being awful.

We're talking about disappointing, but is there another lyrical beast from the early-mid nineties that is going to drop a better album in 2011? Absolutely not....lets give the guy some credit. Ras Kass? Chino XL? Gza? Canibus? Any of these other top lyrical guys from the 90s aren't approaching an album like W.A.R. these days.

Quotashun · Post by **Quotashun** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:36 am

Album's dope after my first few listens. I could live without hearing 'Desire' ever again, but this one is impressing me for the most part. Wouldn't mind hearing more of him over Marco Polo beats and without Immortal Technique choruses though.

YouTube · Post by **Philaflava** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:16 pm

But for all those that dig his late material, is he a top 10 now?

ric · Post by **ric** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:27 pm

i will be copping this new album.
desire is awesome. still. its on my 2 gb ipod right now
top 10s are a strange thing. at the moment? yeah its likely for me personally. im gonna check the new album out though.

thanks for the info.

edit: ok so its on preorder on itunes right now. march 22.
im looking at the track listing....immortal technique? ehhhh. jean grae and royce 59? well see. "calculated amalgamation" is definitely some monch type shit though. ha.

im excited to hear what itll be like though.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:31 pm

Philaflava wrote:But for all those that dig his late material, is he a top 10 now?

I don't make these lists but it'd be easier for him to be top 10 now than to have been top 10 in 1994, 1997, or even 1999.

Wicked · Post by **Wicked** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:42 pm

Thun wrote:
Philaflava wrote:But for all those that dig his late material, is he a top 10 now?
I don't make these lists but it'd be easier for him to be top 10 now than to have been top 10 in 1994, 1997, or even 1999.

That's actually a good point, Thun.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:43 pm

Wicked wrote:
Thun wrote:
Philaflava wrote:But for all those that dig his late material, is he a top 10 now?
I don't make these lists but it'd be easier for him to be top 10 now than to have been top 10 in 1994, 1997, or even 1999.
That's actually a good point, Thun.

You're a faggot, though.

zombie · Post by **zombie** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:15 pm

Philaflava wrote:But for all those that dig his late material, is he a top 10 now?

who gives a shit.

Balzac · Post by **Balzac** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:18 pm

COOLEHMAGAZINE wrote:Monch >>>Eminem

I have realized that I do not share Monch's taste as far as the overall projects he wants to make. I want him to rap over harder beats and also, push himself further in terms of MC'ing and his production choices. He obviously wants to push the singing and instrumentation angle more, along with concepts that sometimes just don't grab me.

That said, he has never put out anything even remotely wack. It's just not what I want (and possibly not what many of his fans want, either) but there is attention to the craft and plenty of integrity there, so I can't say I hate it just because it's not what I want him to do.

This as opposed to someone like Common who clearly has abandoned things like "respect for the craft", "integrity" and "creativity" in favor of whatever straws can be grasped to pay for his next pedicure.

this is very on point, i completely agree

i just got through W.A.R. and on first listen its dope.

ardamus · Post by **ardamus** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:57 am

A Kid · Post by **A Kid** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:54 am

album is dope..i think its still missing one or two bonafied bangers but i didnt skip any songs listening through

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:02 pm

Yeah I enjoy the album more with each listen. In some ways he has devolved both as a lyricist and a vocalist, but he still successfully carries this album. He's just more concerned with setting a mood than developing new flows and ideas. But he is such a refined rapper that he almost never falters when it comes to delivering or choosing the right words, so his second worst album is still more appealing than the best efforts of most rappers out now. That's not a compelling reason to buy this album but it does disqualify it from being labeled complete trash, IMO.

Also, and yes I know I'm annoying for pointing it out but it's true, Monch accomplishes certain things ---namely flowing multisyylabic rhymes nimbly in a shifting voice and speaking on social conditions with in apocalyptic, sermonizing terms --- infinitely better than say Joell Ortiz and Saigon, whose recent efforts have received nearly universal hyperbolic acclaim in the internet.

COOLEHMAGAZINE · Post by **COOLEHMAGAZINE** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:18 pm

Thun wrote:... Joell Ortiz and Saigon, whose recent efforts have received nearly universal hyperbolic acclaim in the internet.

This would be true of "the internet" was "UGHH".

Aside from his die-hard fans, Saigon's album garnered nothing but yawns.

Dap · Post by **Dap** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:30 pm

i thought this shit was boring as fuck after the first spin but i guess i'll give it another shot. what tracks did you guys enjoy the most?

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:18 pm

COOLEHMAGAZINE wrote:
Thun wrote:... Joell Ortiz and Saigon, whose recent efforts have received nearly universal hyperbolic acclaim in the internet.
This would be true of "the internet" was "UGHH".

You sure about that?

I was referring to online reviews, not message board posts (can those possibly be quantified?) from the usual sites that pop up on the first five pages of a google search. The reviews are overwhelmingly and hyperbolically positive, there are all of two that have anything even remotely negative to say and they both try their hardest to turn weaknesses into strengths.

Gyangsta 4 Life · Post by **Gyangsta 4 Life** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:34 pm

ardamus wrote:
Philaflava wrote:so besides struggling internet rappers, do fans still like him?
Sorry, if we don't share your "If I Was Steve Rifkind" mind state on this one, bruh. Agree to disagree.

It's gems like this that make sitting through ardamus' incoherent, inane responses in most threads all worth it.

COOLEHMAGAZINE · Post by **COOLEHMAGAZINE** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:13 pm

Thun wrote:
COOLEHMAGAZINE wrote:
Thun wrote:... Joell Ortiz and Saigon, whose recent efforts have received nearly universal hyperbolic acclaim in the internet.
This would be true of "the internet" was "UGHH".

You sure about that?

I was referring to online reviews, not message board posts (can those possibly be quantified?) from the usual sites that pop up on the first five pages of a google search. The reviews are overwhelmingly and hyperbolically positive, there are all of two that have anything even remotely negative to say and they both try their hardest to turn weaknesses into strengths.

I stand corrected. I was wrong. A couple of those reviews are from halfway credible sources too...only a couple, and only halfway, but yeah, there appears to be some level of hyperbolic acclaim.

*calmly pockets L*

ardamus · Post by **ardamus** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:07 pm

Gyangsta 4 Life wrote:
ardamus wrote:
Philaflava wrote:so besides struggling internet rappers, do fans still like him?
Sorry, if we don't share your "If I Was Steve Rifkind" mind state on this one, bruh. Agree to disagree.
It's gems like this that make sitting through ardamus' incoherent, inane responses in most threads all worth it.

Oh really? Damn, tell me how you really feel.

But for real, I just don't think Monch deserves the arm chair CEO treatment like some of the other artists get on here. And it relates to what Thun said:

Thun wrote:He's just more concerned with setting a mood than developing new flows and ideas. But he is such a refined rapper that he almost never falters when it comes to delivering or choosing the right words, so his second worst album is still more appealing than the best efforts of most rappers out now.

If you think about tracks he like "The Mayor", "Agent Orange", and etc., he always was leading up to setting a mood for each kind of song he does. Even though "Simon Says" has some of best verses, he set a classic rowdy mood with that song.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:12 pm

^Word. Whether or not you can get with the new album is going to depend on what you think of its mood, imo. But if you just listen to the album objectively you'd be hard pressed to say that he didn't put his all into establishing a consistent mood.

I get the feeling that he's trying to isolate the most intense musical and lyrical aspects of gospel music - apocalyptic visions and deep from the gut vocalizing, and fuse that into a hip hop/ bluesy/ soulful context. Like neo-soul + paranoid fire and brimstone. It's interesting to say the least. I don't think any of the tracks are really "bangers" but they do kind of thunder and smolder, if that makes sense.

Mindbender Futurama · Post by **Mindbender Futurama** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:55 pm

songs like "Hit Man" are why Monch >>> most hip hop in 2011

"this might take a couple listens for you to grasp it"

Wreck-It · Post by **Wreck-It** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:13 pm

I'm a huge Pharoahe fan. What do you mean could have been? His 3 Organized albums and his Rawkus debut are easily enough to put him in my top 3 lyricists of all time, and that's not including the off-album tracks and guest spots he had. This motherfucker is and always will be the illest to me... PERIOD. Also, for the record, I didn't cop/ barely listened to his last two solo albums after Internal affairs after hearing the snippets, but he's still a fucking BEAST on the mic. Could have been? I don't know about that shit homie...

Wreck-It · Post by **Wreck-It** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:16 pm

Forgot to add. I say, even if its not nearly as good as his old stuff, I say let him experiment with his sound if he wants to, which is what he's doing. I mean think about it, he'd practically mastered the medium of rapping by the time his first solo came out, so let the man be. Can't praise his shit enough, easily in the top 3 lyricists in my opinion (of all time), easily.

PopeyeJones · Post by **PopeyeJones** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:47 pm

Thun wrote:^Word. Whether or not you can get with the new album is going to depend on what you think of its mood, imo. But if you just listen to the album objectively you'd be hard pressed to say that he didn't put his all into establishing a consistent mood.

I get the feeling that he's trying to isolate the most intense musical and lyrical aspects of gospel music - apocalyptic visions and deep from the gut vocalizing, and fuse that into a hip hop/ bluesy/ soulful context. Like neo-soul + paranoid fire and brimstone. It's interesting to say the least. I don't think any of the tracks are really "bangers" but they do kind of thunder and smolder, if that makes sense.

post kicks ass.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:01 pm

PopeyeJones wrote:
Thun wrote:^Word. Whether or not you can get with the new album is going to depend on what you think of its mood, imo. But if you just listen to the album objectively you'd be hard pressed to say that he didn't put his all into establishing a consistent mood.

I get the feeling that he's trying to isolate the most intense musical and lyrical aspects of gospel music - apocalyptic visions and deep from the gut vocalizing, and fuse that into a hip hop/ bluesy/ soulful context. Like neo-soul + paranoid fire and brimstone. It's interesting to say the least. I don't think any of the tracks are really "bangers" but they do kind of thunder and smolder, if that makes sense.
post kicks ass.

Thanks, but anyone with a triple digit IQ who bothered to listen to the album could have arrived at the same conclusion that I did, because Monch does a pretty excellent job of describing his intentions through his lyrics.

The ONLY real problem with this album is that his take on social issues hasn't evolved much, and some of his riffs on the growth of the neo-con military surveillance establishment are kind of stale. He tries to link these observations to tales of poverty and disenfranchisement, his true bread and butter, but there's something of a disconnect for whatever reason. But that's a REALLY bitchy point to harp on, because the few rappers nowadays who demonstrate genuinely mature insight on social and political issues in their lyrics are not celebrated or even acknowledged on this forum at all with the exception of Open Mike Eagle and that's only because people like Dids are sexually attracted to him.

So basically, fuck everybody, the album is dope, buy it, faggots.

YouTube · Post by **Philaflava** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:10 pm

Everytime Thun references higher education I immediately think of Donald Trump and his incessant Wharton name drop in every interview.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:12 pm

Philaflava wrote:Everytime Thun references higher education I immediately think of Donald Trump and his incessant Wharton name drop in every interview.

Are triple digit IQs now the exclusive domain of the elite? I thought it was a pretty low bar to be honest.

YouTube · Post by **Philaflava** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:15 pm

Thun wrote:
Philaflava wrote:Everytime Thun references higher education I immediately think of Donald Trump and his incessant Wharton name drop in every interview.
Are triple digit IQs now the exclusive domain of the elite? I thought it was a pretty low bar to be honest.

It's a matter of valedictorian.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:16 pm

Philaflava wrote:
Thun wrote:
Philaflava wrote:Everytime Thun references higher education I immediately think of Donald Trump and his incessant Wharton name drop in every interview.
Are triple digit IQs now the exclusive domain of the elite? I thought it was a pretty low bar to be honest.
It's a matter of valedictorian.

For argument's sake, I'd day everyone here smarter than .... I dunno, Smithee has at least a 101 IQ.

The main issue was bothering to listen the album more carefully than a half-interested skim on computer speakers.