2nd albums better than debut

SnoopFroggyFrog · Post by **SnoopFroggyFrog** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:21 am

COOLEHMAGAZINE wrote: What happened to Time Machine?

don't know, probably making their money with touring... Jaysonic released a single I think...

Nl5H · Post by **Nl5H** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:32 am

Combo7 wrote: NWA - Straight Outta Compton

you mean Niggaz4life right? in that case, hell fucking now.

even though 100 miles and runnin is sick.

my choice:

labcabincalifornia

The Slim Shady LP (if we include infinite)

A Kid · Post by **A Kid** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:57 am

Req wrote:I love IWW but how/when did this whole >> Illmatic shit start?

simple revisionist history lol i think it started with younger fans though.

i know in my case i didnt hear illmatic until I Am was maybe a month or so from dropping so my opinion would differ from somebody who started at Live At the BBQ or at Illmatic.

Echo Leader · Post by **Echo Leader** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:03 pm

Thun wrote:Whut? Thee Album is far and away the best Redman album. I don't even see how it's close.

I think this is a matter of preference and perhaps, as you suggested with ATLiens/Southerplayalisticcadillacmuzik, a difference of kind as opposed to degrees.

Darkside got so much more burn from me in high school than Whut? ever did, but I think this is because I have some pretty intense hippy leanings myself and Redman rapping about weird shit on acid >>>> Redman rapping about street shit whilst in a pot coma.

Just, you know, my two cents.

Roy Johnson · Post by **Roy Johnson** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:36 pm

Nl5H wrote:
Combo7 wrote: NWA - Straight Outta Compton
you mean Niggaz4life right?

1. NWA And The Posse
2. Straight Outta Compton
3. 100 Miles And Runnin'
4. Niggaz4Life

GM Dizzy Skillespie · Post by **GM Dizzy Skillespie** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:11 pm

Nl5H wrote:

my choice:

labcabincalifornia

This is a good call. I used to strictly listen to the debut, but after delving into Labcabin properly... I can barely listen to the debut because it's too cartoonish, while Labcabin is even and smooth and drops all the gimmicky songs.

I'm disagreeing with Main Ingrediant and That's Them being better than the debuts.
Between A Rock... is grimey as shit and falls into a great era of brick city sound with "Lower The Boom" "Wayback" and "Dynamite Soul" being significant bangers, where I'm with Block that the Shawn J. Period production era is dull as fuck.

as for Main Ingrediant... I was listening to it just last week and there was something off about every song and it's dense structure. The scratched choruses would be too long and repetitive, despite being dope in concept or the beat would lack movement and just feel static.
Plus songs were 4-5 minutes long without it being necessary or having a breakdown at the end that's worth sticking around for.
Granted the songs on Mecca... are all 4+ minutes, but they seem to make better use of the space.

Complex just had a dope article on The Infamous and that feels like the best answer to the question right now.

COOLEHMAGAZINE · Post by **COOLEHMAGAZINE** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:19 pm

Echo Leader wrote:
Thun wrote:Whut? Thee Album is far and away the best Redman album. I don't even see how it's close.
I think this is a matter of preference and perhaps, as you suggested with ATLiens/Southerplayalisticcadillacmuzik, a difference of kind as opposed to degrees.

Darkside got so much more burn from me in high school than Whut? ever did, but I think this is because I have some pretty intense hippy leanings myself and Redman rapping about weird shit on acid >>>> Redman rapping about street shit whilst in a pot coma.

Just, you know, my two cents.

I don't really like Whut?

DIAD is the perfect balance between the street/battle shit of Whut? and the over the top stoner funnyman of Muddy Waters.

Combo7 · Post by **Combo7** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:26 pm

Nl5H wrote:
Combo7 wrote: NWA - Straight Outta Compton
you mean Niggaz4life right?

Wrong.

Anyone mention this?

And re: Whut?: That whole style of Parliament-esque production annoys the hell out of me. Talk about aging poorly...

Roy Johnson · Post by **Roy Johnson** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:29 pm

GM Dizzy Skillespie wrote:
Nl5H wrote: my choice:

labcabincalifornia
This is a good call. I used to strictly listen to the debut, but after delving into Labcabin properly... I can barely listen to the debut because it's too cartoonish, while Labcabin is even and smooth and drops all the gimmicky songs.

Shit, the debut is my favorite album of all time, but Labcabin is terrific in its own right.

Blockhead · Post by **Blockhead** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:30 pm

I could not disagree more with people putting Labcabin over "Bizarre ride".

That's insanity. I realize how hard peoples dicks are J. Dilla and everything but that album was an obvious drop off in production, rapping, creativity and overall enjoyment.
I think an issue people have with "Bizarre ride" is that it's been run into the ground (often by dipshit kids you went to college with who's only other album
they own that was made by a black person is Bob Marley's Legend).
If you separate that stigma from it and really listen to that album, it's fucking great. Amazing beats, entertaining rhymes and well put together songs. "Labcabin" was them trying to be something they weren't and was pretty uninspired considering the potential that group had.

The Afronaut · Post by **The Afronaut** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:33 pm

GM Dizzy Skillespie wrote: as for Main Ingrediant... I was listening to it just last week and there was something off about every song and it's dense structure.

The Afronaut · Post by **The Afronaut** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:36 pm

Blockhead wrote:I could not disagree more with people putting Labcabin over "Bizarre ride".

That's insanity. I realize how hard peoples dicks are J. Dilla and everything but that album was an obvious drop off in production, rapping, creativity and overall enjoyment.
I think an issue people have with "Bizarre ride" is that it's been run into the ground (often by dipshit kids you went to college with who's only other album
they own that was made by a black person is Bob Marley's Legend).
If you separate that stigma from it and really listen to that album, it's fucking great. Amazing beats, entertaining rhymes and well put together songs. "Labcabin" was them trying to be something they weren't and was pretty uninspired considering the potential that group had.

Ive heard this sentiment brought up in Pharcyde debates before and I understand it to an extent...but my question is where in your opinion could/should they have gone creatively if not in the direction of Labcabin?

aeokq · Post by **aeokq** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:38 pm

The first three that come to mind are Liquid Swords, Resurrection, and The Infamous.

I think Labcabincalifornia is better than Bizarre Ride II. The beats are more polished and the album has more heat to it overall. Bizarre Ride has this fun type feel to it but "Passin Me By" outshines every other song significantly whereas Labcab has more top notch songs altogether.

Echo Leader · Post by **Echo Leader** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:30 pm

COOLEHMAGAZINE wrote:
Echo Leader wrote:
Thun wrote:Whut? Thee Album is far and away the best Redman album. I don't even see how it's close.
I think this is a matter of preference and perhaps, as you suggested with ATLiens/Southerplayalisticcadillacmuzik, a difference of kind as opposed to degrees.

Darkside got so much more burn from me in high school than Whut? ever did, but I think this is because I have some pretty intense hippy leanings myself and Redman rapping about weird shit on acid >>>> Redman rapping about street shit whilst in a pot coma.

Just, you know, my two cents.
I don't really like Whut?

DIAD is the perfect balance between the street/battle shit of Whut? and the over the top stoner funnyman of Muddy Waters.

Combo7 wrote: And re: Whut?: That whole style of Parliament-esque production annoys the hell out of me. Talk about aging poorly...

I more or less agree with these two sentiments completely. IMHO Darkside is the album that really established Redman's persona; the "over-the-top stoner funnyman" as you put it. There were definitely flashes of that characterization on Whut? (Redman Meets Reggie Noble, How To Roll A Blunt, Soopaman Luva) but for the majority of that record he was more or less ingrained in that hardcore Hit Squad sound. I just prefer the Darkside-era Redman to the Whut? era Redman.

As for the samples on Whut?, I wouldn't say that they annoy me or that the beats are bad (because they're definitely anything but), but they are more or less products of the time during which they were recorded. Also, some of them sound really tinny and honestly that album needs to be remastered if it hasn't already. A lot of the loops on Whut? seem really played out in retrospect. The beats on Darkside retained the same kind of sonic palette rooted in funk, but were more muddled, grimy, and honestly just seem to me like they hit harder than anything on Whut?.

Darkside was also the first Redman album I ever listened to, so maybe that has something to do with it. I dunno.

Again, it's kind of apples and oranges but I just simply prefer Darkside over Whut?.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:32 pm

Blockhead wrote:I could not disagree more with people putting Labcabin over "Bizarre ride".

That's insanity. I realize how hard peoples dicks are J. Dilla and everything but that album was an obvious drop off in production, rapping, creativity and overall enjoyment.
I think an issue people have with "Bizarre ride" is that it's been run into the ground (often by dipshit kids you went to college with who's only other album
they own that was made by a black person is Bob Marley's Legend).
If you separate that stigma from it and really listen to that album, it's fucking great. Amazing beats, entertaining rhymes and well put together songs. "Labcabin" was them trying to be something they weren't and was pretty uninspired considering the potential that group had.

Yeah.

There are individual songs on Bizarre Ride that are better than all of Labcabincalifornication combined.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:34 pm

If you bump Dare Iz A Darkside in it's entirety in 2011 you probably live a miserable life. Nobody above the age of 15 should find anything appealing about it.

COOLEHMAGAZINE · Post by **COOLEHMAGAZINE** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:37 pm

Thun wrote:If you bump Dare Iz A Darkside in it's entirety in 2011 you probably live a miserable life. Nobody above the age of 15 should find anything appealing about it.

Can't Wait might be Redman's best solo song.

I don't think it is a straight through incredible listen but the highs are higher than any other Redman record.

Echo Leader · Post by **Echo Leader** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:37 pm

Blockhead wrote:I could not disagree more with people putting Labcabin over "Bizarre ride".

That's insanity. I realize how hard peoples dicks are J. Dilla and everything but that album was an obvious drop off in production, rapping, creativity and overall enjoyment.
I think an issue people have with "Bizarre ride" is that it's been run into the ground (often by dipshit kids you went to college with who's only other album
they own that was made by a black person is Bob Marley's Legend).
If you separate that stigma from it and really listen to that album, it's fucking great. Amazing beats, entertaining rhymes and well put together songs. "Labcabin" was them trying to be something they weren't and was pretty uninspired considering the potential that group had.

Labcabin sucks. It's a decent rap record but a TERRIBLE Pharcyde record. I don't think I've even listened to the whole thing front to back in one sitting.

For what it's worth, I think J. Dilla sucks for the most part as well.

I was definitely one of those dipshits that first heard "Bizarre Ride" (in full, anyway) in college though.

Combo7 · Post by **Combo7** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:38 pm

Thun wrote:If you bump Dare Iz A Darkside in it's entirety in 2011 you probably live a miserable life. Nobody above the age of 15 should find anything appealing about it.

...says one of Odd Future's most vocal supporters.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:39 pm

Glad to see some Labcabincauliflower hate around here for once.

Open Mike Eagle's current steez >>>>>>>>>> Pharcyde on Labcabincalifornia

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:41 pm

Combo7 wrote:
Thun wrote:If you bump Dare Iz A Darkside in it's entirety in 2011 you probably live a miserable life. Nobody above the age of 15 should find anything appealing about it.
...says one of Odd Future's most vocal supporters.

Actually, I'm one of Waka Flocka's most vocal supporters. My Odd Future support is limited to Earl and Tyler. And their albums have greater replay than all of Redman's discography. Not my fault, don't shoot the messenger.

Nicki Minaj is better than all of them, though.

Echo Leader · Post by **Echo Leader** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:44 pm

Thun wrote:If you bump Dare Iz A Darkside in it's entirety in 2011 you probably live a miserable life. Nobody above the age of 15 should find anything appealing about it.

Why?

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:46 pm

Echo Leader wrote:
Thun wrote:If you bump Dare Iz A Darkside in it's entirety in 2011 you probably live a miserable life. Nobody above the age of 15 should find anything appealing about it.
Why?

It's just meandering, pointless bullshit, like the life of a broke fifteen year old. Same reason most Boot Camp Click shit sounds crappy in my old age.

Echo Leader · Post by **Echo Leader** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:53 pm

Thun wrote:
Echo Leader wrote:
Thun wrote:If you bump Dare Iz A Darkside in it's entirety in 2011 you probably live a miserable life. Nobody above the age of 15 should find anything appealing about it.
Why?
It's just meandering, pointless bullshit, like the life of a broke fifteen year old. Same reason most Boot Camp Click shit sounds crappy in my old age.

LOL, I don't listen to Redman records for social commentary and emotional depth though.

It's not like I listen to this record every day. Like I said, it got a lot of burn in high school (you know, when I was a broke 15 year old with a meandering and pointless life) and has simply remained my favorite Redman album.

Echo Leader · Post by **Echo Leader** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:56 pm

I will concede that Boot Camp records have started to sound rather trite as of late, more so as I approach the ripe old age of 24.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:06 pm

Echo Leader wrote:I will concede that Boot Camp records have started to sound rather trite as of late, more so as I approach the ripe old age of 24.

LOL, had no idea you were 24. Never mind me, I'm just old.

Blockhead · Post by **Blockhead** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:06 pm

The Afronaut wrote:
Blockhead wrote:I could not disagree more with people putting Labcabin over "Bizarre ride".

That's insanity. I realize how hard peoples dicks are J. Dilla and everything but that album was an obvious drop off in production, rapping, creativity and overall enjoyment.
I think an issue people have with "Bizarre ride" is that it's been run into the ground (often by dipshit kids you went to college with who's only other album
they own that was made by a black person is Bob Marley's Legend).
If you separate that stigma from it and really listen to that album, it's fucking great. Amazing beats, entertaining rhymes and well put together songs. "Labcabin" was them trying to be something they weren't and was pretty uninspired considering the potential that group had.
Ive heard this sentiment brought up in Pharcyde debates before and I understand it to an extent...but my question is where in your opinion could/should they have gone creatively if not in the direction of Labcabin?

I dunno...an inspired place? They mailed that record in hard. Fat lips barely on the record and when he is, he kills it but in the laziest way possible. Imani is unlistenable and Slim Kid had already peaked. That elave booty brown , who's actually okay on there but it doesn't even matter at that point. Sure, I like a handful of songs on there , compared to "Bizarre ride"? That album is front to back amazing. Even the weaker songs would stand out on "labcabin" based of of sheer energy.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:08 pm

Yeah by the second album the fact that everyone in the group as well as everyone they associated with were full blown baseheads had clearly taken its toll.

drizzle · Post by **drizzle** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:11 pm

Thun wrote:
Echo Leader wrote:
Thun wrote:If you bump Dare Iz A Darkside in it's entirety in 2011 you probably live a miserable life. Nobody above the age of 15 should find anything appealing about it.
Why?
It's just meandering, pointless bullshit,

that's more or less the essence of 99% of all psychadelia though, that's why it only really fully works when you're on drugs.

which isn't necisseraly a defence of the merits of the album, its more like you either except and enjoy it for what it is (pointless selfindulgence) or you just write it off as a huge mess. the validity of the pov will be measured in bong hits

Roy Johnson · Post by **Roy Johnson** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:12 pm

Blockhead wrote:Imani is unlistenable on Labcabin

Really? I thought that he killed it, for the most part.