so who has a producer's complex?

[dox of poorly drawn peopl]

Voice tags, getting paid for their work, all that paranoid and/or egotistical shit?

Since I've started frequenting producer's forums (not this one) and speaking to beat makers I've noticed that a lot of people 1) think their shit is the next level 2) expect to get paid without putting in work.

I guess what inspired this thread was the My Two Cents topic about the new Dilla with A.C. track. That beat was on Dilla's beat tape vol. 3 and I've never heard of A.C. In the back of my mind -- whether it's true or not, which it's probablynot -- I just assume that A.C. jacked that track and rhymed on it.

Which had me thinking about the vast amount of new beats Dilla put out independently. They're all there, naked and ready to be jacked by emcee's.

I've thought about putting out similar beat tapes -- throwaways and mid-tier stuff that I would never use for a project, most likely. I thought about putting industry accapella's over them... but them I'm like, "Fuck it, this would only appeal to underground hiphop kids who just want to hear the beats without the 17 millionth remix of 'It Ain't Hard to Tell' cluttering it up."

But other people I've brought the concept up to have said that it's pretty fucking stupid because it basically says "Jack my shit."

I don't know, though. I've been emceeing bsince efore I ever made a beat. Any respectable rapper I've ever known would never jack a beat. If MC Piss Poor from Oklahoma wants to rock em and use my name, fucking go for it, dude. You have to live with being a clown.

Which leads me into the idea of getting paid. I've been producing for a couple years... since like early 2002. I only started taking it DEAD serious in late 2004. That was around the time my crew, Poorly Drawn People, formed. Since then, I've been working steadily towards finishing up multiple projects. Two are on the verge of being completed. One is in the middle of the process. Another one is mine, as an emcee... on some "Cop the album when I drop it" Large Pro, drop it in 10 years, shit.

I never had the desire to sell a track for $100 to these kids on myspace or at local open mics. It's pretty stupid of me, because I probably could've funded a project out of my pocket. Or scored a couple of months rent out of my pocket.

It's pretty stupid when you consider my earlier statement of giving MC Piss Poor free production.

But to me, the idea was always to build something. Pete Rock had CL Smooth. They built that into a brand. Da Beatminaz were THE sound of Boot Camp until that god awful 'For the People' LP.

I always admired that shit. Loyalty and respect turned into a movement.

Really, I'm just rambling. But I'd love hear other people's thoughts.







And sorry if this thesis is on some status

[nestle quik]

alot of mc's I work with have jacked Dilla instrumentals to make some shitty basement sounding track over radioshack mics,but i don't think they'd ever demand money for it,unless they sold it out of their own hand to someone on the street,which is cool I guess,even though you have access to producers that can do it for real,it's just an under the table way of hustling,it's just a slippery slope and it's to easy to get started on that path


now I also know dudes who have jacked beats off mp3.com to use for their own projects without even giving props,infact that same person made me pay for his shit when I donated beats to him,that's some crooked shit

[still illiterate]

see the thing for me is, i can give out 10 free beats to 10 broke mc's, that want to make 10 dope songs. But without any investment outside of a short conversation, there is no motivation for them to actually record the song and release it. And a lot of people don't. A lot of people I meet are MC's or artists by name only. They just want to say that they make music, without actually doing it.

By charging someone some cash for a beat, it makes sure that that person really likes that track, and they have a interest in getting it released.

It doesn't do me any good for one of my songs to sit on some cats harddrive to never be released.

but on the other subject, yes I do get a bit paranoid about beat jacking. I don't beattag as much as i add vocals to instrumentals. There was a problem locally a while ago about a cat selling people jacked beats. That would upset me more then anything. Again i love making music, but it does me no good to have my beats under another cats name. If someone jacked a beat, gave me credit, it'd be a different story.

[Captin Planit]

But to me, the idea was always to build something. Pete Rock had CL Smooth. They built that into a brand. Da Beatminaz were THE sound of Boot Camp until that god awful 'For the People' LP.

I always admired that shit. Loyalty and respect turned into a movement.

This is essentially the code of conduct I admire and attempt to embody (although my "real life" schedule rarely grants me the leeway to let that movement snowball at anymore than a gradual pace).

Added to that, I'll rarely let an instrumental surface with the easy opportunity for somebody to jack it (even though we all know people have no trouble ripping instrumentals off a streaming audio source, even if it's not left available for download). I'm never going to demand cash from anybody, but somebody has to convince me that they're looking to make music for the sake of a larger audience. So nowadays, if I'm working outside my family, I'll look for signs of motivation, such as mixtapes they've released, local notoriety, connections to respected crews with sufficient evidence, etc. And if somebody's going to offer cash before we've even struck a conversation, that'll determine the course of action as well, and I'd be stupid not to let a financial deal develop accordingly.

Everything's really circumstantial once it's beyond my circle of influence. But again, I'm a firm believer in a building-from-the-ground-upward mentality. Glad I'm not alone.

[nestle quik]

see the thing for me is, i can give out 10 free beats to 10 broke mc's, that want to make 10 dope songs. But without any investment outside of a short conversation, there is no motivation for them to actually record the song and release it. And a lot of people don't. A lot of people I meet are MC's or artists by name only. They just want to say that they make music, without actually doing it.

By charging someone some cash for a beat, it makes sure that that person really likes that track, and they have a interest in getting it released.

.

that's a very good point,although unless you have a wide variety of outlets the chances are not too many people are gonna hit you up,even my boys aren't that eager to rock over something unless it's a painless looped beat process

[amplifya]

Voice tags, getting paid for their work, all that paranoid and/or egotistical shit?

Since I've started frequenting producer's forums (not this one) and speaking to beat makers I've noticed that a lot of people 1) think their shit is the next level 2) expect to get paid without putting in work.

Having peeped the hip hop producer forum game if such a thing exists for quite some time, you'd 1) be suprised how many times peoples beats have gotten jacked by both underground and major label artists (The biggest instance I can think of is Soleternity posting his "No Lights On" beat on rapmusic.com which ended up as "Sleep With An AK" by Young Buck on some G-Unit mixtape and Sol got no credit)
2) Why not get paid if people are paying?

I agree some peoples egos are out of control and think theyre more innovative than they are, but theres nothing paranoid or egotistical about voice tags and selling beats. If anything for me its the opposite: I haven't seriously shopped my beats yet in the real world because I DON'T think theyre as good as they can be... so in the meantime why not throw them on a soundclick page with vocal tags and make a few hundred/thousand dollars? I've pretty much paid for all my equipment from soundclick and mp3.com.

[Remo the Great]

^^^ I agree with you mang.

Now I dont do as much networking and whatnot as I should even though I do want to eventually be living off beats, but why not get paid for my work? I mean really... I work hard at making beats. Most of my production work goes directly to my group Caveman Theory, myself, or to the very small group of artists who are fam to me and I would never charge. So if somebody who I dont know wants a piece of that, why shouldnt I get paid? I dont think I have the best beats ever, but I do know that my shit is good enough to get $4-500 for a good beat. How do I know? Cause that's what I get when I sell beats. And in the world of beats, that's cheap.

So yeah... I voicetag my shit. Yes, I'm paranoid. I dont want nobody loopin up my shit and possibly gettin work offa that and me not get any credit. Fuck that. I done put in too much time and money building up my skills, my studio, and what little reputation I got to give it away. Music is how I'm trying to butter my bread. So if you want a taste, you can pass the fuckin parkay.

EARLY!

[nestle quik]

Producers complex?NAH,This Producer's complex! HAHA

[dox of poorly drawn peopl]

I don't want anyone to think that I don't want to see people getting paid for their work. You put in work, hustle, develop a following... all the power to you.

But in my case, I've weighed the option of selling a beat for a couple of bills vs. donating it to help a project I support. So far, I've went with support everytime. I'd rather make someone I'd down with happy than hear some crab that paid me $200 suck it up over it. It goes back to that whole create a sound, build a movement thing.

Maybe it's because my whole goal with this is to have fun before I'm 30. The idea of living off of music is great, but it's a dream. Plus I've never been good at business.

I guess I just have a problem with every kid that makes beats demanding money. I think there are a handful of people on here that should be charging for beats if that's what they want to do. But the idea of charging for a track has almost become a prerequisite for producing.

[Cryptic One]

i find it funny how much producers think their tracks are worth sometimes

ive put people in contact with artists... and the artists felt their music... only to say no because this unknown producer asked for too much money

i understand people wanting to get compensated for their hard work... but making beats isnt the hard work... the hard work is getting the beats off of your hard drive and on to the record store shelves

ive seen kids who have never had a release in their life asking a grand for a beat... im sure they sold zero beats in the past year... while the kid who spent last year hustling and getting beats on releases for zero to little money, now he can actually charge that grand and get it

i think people who are overly concerned about getting paid small amounts NOW are just thinking too short termed... you would be suprised how well a full discography acts as a good resume to get your foot in a door

just my 2 cents

[Hasenfefer]

i would much rather give away beats to talented artists who are actually putting in work and stand a chance of making something happen for themselves than sell beats to kids who have never rocked a show and will never do anything more with my beat than put out a homemade CD and sell 50 copies to their closest friends and family.

[amplifya]

the divide in this thread seems like people are talking as if you can only do one or the other

why not do both? make the music you want to make AND sell beats to random people? that seems like the most logical thing to do to me

[The Red Scare]

I sell beats very occasionally....usually old beats to crappy emcees. I'm not really interested in trying to make money, especially 'cause I'm lazy and don't have the energy to get my name out there. I'd rather just work with dope artists for the fun of it. But I do need to reach out more, because I really haven't worked with that many emcees at all.

I'm pretty sure that my beats have been stolen before, because every once in a while I have like 2-3 hits on my web page, but 40+ downloads on the same day. But I don't really care...its not gonna effect me at all, and I like allowing all my music to be distributed freely. And I think voicetags are annoying as hell. Less than 1% of the people who listen to my music are gonna end up buying a beat, so why punish the other 99% by making them listen to some crappy voicetag?

[Piff Tannen]

i dunno if my post will have much weight here, its my own side of the stick, being more an mc than a producer. back in college id jack peoples beats off soundclick or myspace if i liked it to rhyme over, so i could just get practice writing and recording, but id never sell em or even put em out as anything, and if my friends heard it, id make sure to let them know i have nothing to do with that beat, so dont ask for a copy of the track. i wouldnt wanna jack someones beat and try to do something with it without their knowledge, thats mad shady. i just got my bedroom studio set up, so im going to be recording alot more, but the only beats i have are my boys beats(until i can start making decent ones of my own)
so im going to try to work something out with him where i can rhyme on his beats without like, trying to sell the tracks, or ill just buy a couple off of him or something, but word. so yeah.

[Captin Planit]

The problem is the majority of the people who frequent this board have a very fair mentality.

That is not the case in the real world. I don't blame people for being cautious with voice tags and the like.

[Brazen]

I agree with Amplifya, I beileve you can sell and give free beats without being thought of as an ego maniac. I HATE vocal tags, they ruin the listening experience. Back when I used to shop on line for beats and they had those tags, a lot of these producers would lose a sell quickly because I couldn't stand listening to it. At least have something subtle, they'll have something way too loud. Or that plays too much through the track, or try to be funny and shit. Or some "I'm the shit" type tag. At least an acapella lets you hear what it would sound like as a track. I've even peeped some remixes that I thought the beat was cool, but sounded even more flippable when the acapella came in.

Blah. Hell, reading a lot of these front pages on soundclick proves how much of an ego a lot of these cats have. "DO NOT ASK ME TO COLLAB DO NOT ASK FOR A FREE BEAT I'M NOT YOU FAM THIS IS A BUSINESS" type deal that I seee oooooooooooh too often is fucking crazy to me.

I much rather hear a dope track from a dope emcee over my beat than be able to sit back easy because I got $150 from MC Neverdo that's just going to sit on it or make a shitty track with a $20 mic over a beat I spent a lot of time on and happen to like.

It's all relative. Some of it is cats thinking they're bigger than they are. Others are justified. I know a lot of cats jacking out there. And sure, they'll look unofficial for doing it. But say you actually find a HOT emcee wanting to use a beat someone jacked without knowing it, and then a couple weeks down the line he happens to hear that track by someone else. He's going to think you're suspect.

Word to Still Illiterate, Remo and Amp.1ne

[Remo the Great]

And to add on to my earlier post and respond to what Cryptic and Has said... I have no problem giving a beat away to an artist who I know is actually doing something and will make me shine by using one of my tracks. That's to be expected.

I'm just sayin that when MC Etch-A-Sketch from Lake Nowhere comes at me like "Yo doggie lemme get a beat for free" I got a problem with that. Or these dudes in my local scene who I know dont have the work ethic or talent to get them somewhere want tracks for free. Go get your homie who goes to full sail or valencia to make u a beat. I got bills to pay and a career as an engineer to get poppin. Ya smell me?

peace