Killer Mike and El-P

[Employee]

http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/ ... _up_t.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The only time the duo gets upstaged is on "Close Your Eyes," a politically charged track that features a closing verse from Rage Against The Machine's Zack de la Rocha.

[Bones]

anybody know what was the first track these guys did together, im assuming its off of rap music???

[myself]

anybody know what was the first track these guys did together, im assuming its off of rap music???

If you mean the first time one was a guest on the other's tracks (since El-P produced all the tracks off their four 2012-present projects), I think "Butane?" Or Tougher, Colder, Killer? I think R.A.P. Music came out a couple weeks before C4C.. and I'm not sure what was released as "singles" (think Big Beast and The Full Retard were the 1st singles off their albums).

[Employee]

http://www.stereogum.com/1711212/the-ps ... r-story/3/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That it’s the product of a black man and a white man working together makes it all the more potent. Imagine Public Enemy’s politically charged late-’80s frenzy with the black nationalist elements swapped out in favor of an inclusive interracial onslaught. A close-knit black/white partnership fighting the power together seems especially resonant at this juncture of American history, and never more than on “Early.” Whereas Mike raps from firsthand experience, El’s verse is from an observer’s viewpoint, espousing what he calls “that world-beaten awareness that comes from just being a person who pays attention.” Together, they can offer a well-rounded perspective on the world’s messy realities. Their interracial bond shouldn’t be that remarkable in this day and age, and having friends of many races is nothing new for either rapper. But in light of the turmoil that still prevails in America, the connection between Michael Render and Jaime Meline feels incredibly special. That’s not lost on them. “Because we are put together and we are just naturally friends,” Mike says, “I think it shows people that there’s an alternative to what you’re taught.”

So: 1) Does anyone who counts themselves an RTJ fan think of RTJ as an "Interracial Rap Duo" or just a Rap Duo?, 2) Why is a "black man and a white man working together" an incredible feat?, 3) Do any of you think that if RTJ was comprised of two white guys or two black guys, or a white guy and a Puerto Rican guy that the music would be any less "potent"?, and 4) How many of you were actually taught that black people and white people can't be friends who vibe out and make bangers?

[myself]

Some random thoughts:

1. I'm one of those fags who like El-P's rapping, too. Considering he sold a few hundred thousand solo units (and I don't think the majority were just for production) , that's not that rare.

2. I think I missed the whole "Top 50 Zach De La" thing, but I think I "get it" from the context. While I wouldn't call him any kind of ranked MC, I liked a lot of RATM (which I don't consider rapping) and "C.I.A" got a lot of play in my stereo and CD alarm clock in the late 90s. And, as someone commented about wanting to hear him over El-P production for a long time, that was supposed to happen what 15 years ago? And I'm sure a lot of people were curious about that project.

3. "Dumbing down" production and whatever else: Everyone should know, or at least I think it has been stated plenty by those involved, that RTJ is a completely different project than El or Mike's solo/other projects. The beats, lyrics, concepts are different than what you are going to get from a El-P solo or a Pledge 4 or RAP Music 2, or whatever. This might be the first El-P project that I can't really listen to the instrumentals on their own. I mean, I loved the Cold Vein- even Vast's rapping- but I listen to Oxtrumentals on its own just as much. Producers tend to produce differently for rappers versus music meant to be released on its own (see RJD2, Blockhead, etc), but I've often found that El-P's can stand on its own and work well either way. To me his production w/ Mike works very well for Mike, and RTJ for them both, but without Mike rapping over it I can't imagine wanting to listen to the beats alone.

4. Some people say they'd rather have just KM over the RTJ beats, but I'd rather them do that w/ another RAP Music.. and the RTJ beats/style really wouldn't exist outside of them teaming up as a duo. Otherwise, I think Mike's looking to do a different type of album. I think RTJ was a natural progression for them working together, but also a conscious decision to go in a direction away from what they are really known for as solo artists or even w/ El just producing. And considering El was "dead broke" and had to move into a smaller apt and eat a lot of eggs until the owner of Fat Possum "saved his life" with his C4C advance, RTJ is looking a lot more lucrative than they probably expected, and a welcome professional development. So personally, I'm not sitting around hoping El goes broke and gets hooked on drugs so that he can produce stuff closer to his "dark periods" that enjoyed.

[Rachel Hobozal]

http://www.stereogum.com/1711212/the-ps ... r-story/3/

That it’s the product of a black man and a white man working together makes it all the more potent. Imagine Public Enemy’s politically charged late-’80s frenzy with the black nationalist elements swapped out in favor of an inclusive interracial onslaught. A close-knit black/white partnership fighting the power together seems especially resonant at this juncture of American history, and never more than on “Early.” Whereas Mike raps from firsthand experience, El’s verse is from an observer’s viewpoint, espousing what he calls “that world-beaten awareness that comes from just being a person who pays attention.” Together, they can offer a well-rounded perspective on the world’s messy realities. Their interracial bond shouldn’t be that remarkable in this day and age, and having friends of many races is nothing new for either rapper. But in light of the turmoil that still prevails in America, the connection between Michael Render and Jaime Meline feels incredibly special. That’s not lost on them. “Because we are put together and we are just naturally friends,” Mike says, “I think it shows people that there’s an alternative to what you’re taught.”

So: 1) Does anyone who counts themselves an RTJ fan think of RTJ as an "Interracial Rap Duo" or just a Rap Duo?, 2) Why is a "black man and a white man working together" an incredible feat?, 3) Do any of you think that if RTJ was comprised of two white guys or two black guys, or a white guy and a Puerto Rican guy that the music would be any less "potent"?, and 4) How many of you were actually taught that black people and white people can't be friends who vibe out and make bangers?

Jesus Christ, man. Shut the fuck up. Don't you ever get tired of being like this? You must hate life so damn much. I feel sorry for you, bro. I really do. All the best.

[myself]

http://www.stereogum.com/1711212/the-ps ... r-story/3/

That it’s the product of a black man and a white man working together makes it all the more potent. Imagine Public Enemy’s politically charged late-’80s frenzy with the black nationalist elements swapped out in favor of an inclusive interracial onslaught. A close-knit black/white partnership fighting the power together seems especially resonant at this juncture of American history, and never more than on “Early.” Whereas Mike raps from firsthand experience, El’s verse is from an observer’s viewpoint, espousing what he calls “that world-beaten awareness that comes from just being a person who pays attention.” Together, they can offer a well-rounded perspective on the world’s messy realities. Their interracial bond shouldn’t be that remarkable in this day and age, and having friends of many races is nothing new for either rapper. But in light of the turmoil that still prevails in America, the connection between Michael Render and Jaime Meline feels incredibly special. That’s not lost on them. “Because we are put together and we are just naturally friends,” Mike says, “I think it shows people that there’s an alternative to what you’re taught.”

So: 1) Does anyone who counts themselves an RTJ fan think of RTJ as an "Interracial Rap Duo" or just a Rap Duo?, 2) Why is a "black man and a white man working together" an incredible feat?, 3) Do any of you think that if RTJ was comprised of two white guys or two black guys, or a white guy and a Puerto Rican guy that the music would be any less "potent"?, and 4) How many of you were actually taught that black people and white people can't be friends who vibe out and make bangers?

I (think) the sample selection here is going to be biased. For the most part I don't think this is a group of self-segregated white people or militant black separatists. FWIW, I'm a white guy who grew up on hip-hop w/ a multi-racial family, all black neighborhood, mostly black friends growing up, etc.

So,I grew up knowing a white guy who had a black GF who worked with my mom, had half-black siblings, 50/50 white/black friends and co-workers, plenty of black male/white female couples, black "uncles" etc. So, it would never seem odd to me. But I've been in plenty of places where people are very segregated and have probably never had more than a token friend of another race. My best friend growing up was black, but we lost touch. (I remember teachers in school calling us an "odd couple" and a lot of other-mostly black- kids saying we must be fags because we were friends).

But I think in reality: Before RAP Music, most of Killer Mike's fans were black, or only knew him for ADIDAS/Outkast appearances. Most of his music associates were black. I think most of his shows were "chitlin circuit"- small black clubs.

Most of El-P's fans were white.. I mean, I don't think I have to explain this here- but El-P and Def Jux were frequently called whiteboy-nerdrap music (and Co Flow "white rap" for being 1/3 white) all over message boards for most of the past 15 years. A high % of people viewed El-P the way Vast Aire did in his Myspace diatribes. During the latter half of his career El-P was as likely to be associated with and praised by indie rock people- who are, despite the presence of TV on the Radio and Mars Volta guys, seen as "White." And "not hip-hop."

FWIW, I was introduced to Co Flow music by a black Muslim dude in 1997.

When El-P began producing for Mike, all kinds of white people were shocked that they would work together. Independent white as fuck nerdrap El-P working with a guy who was on a major, a Southern rapper (the South v. NY thing being almost as big a divide as the racial thing for some people and during a certain time period), who was on MTV rapping ADIDAS and doing Outkast features a decade ago.

Black people/Mike's fan's reaction was probably more like: "Who is El-P?" Even though guys like Bun "You can't call yourself an Underground King without knowing El-P" B knew who he was, I don't think a lot of Mike's fanbase and expected music collaborators did. Maybe they knew he was once in a group called Company Flow or that he was a NYC underground rapper/producer. So then, Killer Mike told his friends: "He's white, but he's dope." And I'm sure people listened to his beats and had some appreciate for some of his production, but probably not too much for his rapping.

When Killer Mike started working with El-P and went on the first tour with him, his manager was quoted somewhere basically saying it was a good opportunity for him to play shows and make money off El-P's white fanbase- I don't remember if he called them nerd or backpacker or hipster, but he used some term like that.

I saw Killer Mike and El-P in some bar that was staffed by a bunch of aging white rocker-types, and I think Hannibal Buress was the only black guy in the crowd. It was almost all 30 year-old white guys who I doubt had ever been to a Killer Mike show. Well, that's not completely true- there were about 3 black women there for Exquire, and 1 dude impersonating him.

I know that when the news of them working together came out, Mike's PL3DGE was getting ready to drop. I'm pretty sure that was under SRC and TI's imprint, but I don't feel like looking it up. I also know, it sold about 12,000 copies before it fell off the rap charts. I also know that RAP Music, while it was more of a critical than commercial success directly (indirectly I'm sure helped his brand, touring, made RTJ merch possible, etc), sold around 3 times that much. Maybe you can attribute some of that to Adult Swim (more white people, too, I guess) but I bet a lot of it is from white El-P fans.

Why do people make fan art of El-P and Mike as interracial buddy cops and Ebony and Ivory stuff and compare them to other black/white duos from movies and pop culture? I guess because plenty of people see them as a big black guy and a white guy duo. Whether people care about the racial aspect or not, it's certainly something people notice. I don't think you can just say hypothetically: What if there were a different racial and geographical composition?- because you can't separate that from who they are. Two guys of the same race from the same place probably wouldn't have the same hype because they'd be combining less diverse backgrounds. If 2 middle tier independent NYC white guys (if such a thing exist) or 2 black southern independent dudes combine forces, it probably wouldn't have impact.

[Rachel Hobozal]

That was very generous of you, myself. Entertaining such a silly question like that. I mean, it all goes without saying for most people. But I guess someone had to say it for the old retard.

[zombie]

http://www.stereogum.com/1711212/the-ps ... r-story/3/

That it’s the product of a black man and a white man working together makes it all the more potent. Imagine Public Enemy’s politically charged late-’80s frenzy with the black nationalist elements swapped out in favor of an inclusive interracial onslaught. A close-knit black/white partnership fighting the power together seems especially resonant at this juncture of American history, and never more than on “Early.” Whereas Mike raps from firsthand experience, El’s verse is from an observer’s viewpoint, espousing what he calls “that world-beaten awareness that comes from just being a person who pays attention.” Together, they can offer a well-rounded perspective on the world’s messy realities. Their interracial bond shouldn’t be that remarkable in this day and age, and having friends of many races is nothing new for either rapper. But in light of the turmoil that still prevails in America, the connection between Michael Render and Jaime Meline feels incredibly special. That’s not lost on them. “Because we are put together and we are just naturally friends,” Mike says, “I think it shows people that there’s an alternative to what you’re taught.”

So: 1) Does anyone who counts themselves an RTJ fan think of RTJ as an "Interracial Rap Duo" or just a Rap Duo?, 2) Why is a "black man and a white man working together" an incredible feat?, 3) Do any of you think that if RTJ was comprised of two white guys or two black guys, or a white guy and a Puerto Rican guy that the music would be any less "potent"?, and 4) How many of you were actually taught that black people and white people can't be friends who vibe out and make bangers?

smh holy shit

none of this shit matters to me and I don't know how any of that could matter to anyone, its music, its good shit.

regardless of them being white/black, the music is dope.

[Employee]

http://www.stereogum.com/1711212/the-ps ... r-story/3/

That it’s the product of a black man and a white man working together makes it all the more potent. Imagine Public Enemy’s politically charged late-’80s frenzy with the black nationalist elements swapped out in favor of an inclusive interracial onslaught. A close-knit black/white partnership fighting the power together seems especially resonant at this juncture of American history, and never more than on “Early.” Whereas Mike raps from firsthand experience, El’s verse is from an observer’s viewpoint, espousing what he calls “that world-beaten awareness that comes from just being a person who pays attention.” Together, they can offer a well-rounded perspective on the world’s messy realities. Their interracial bond shouldn’t be that remarkable in this day and age, and having friends of many races is nothing new for either rapper. But in light of the turmoil that still prevails in America, the connection between Michael Render and Jaime Meline feels incredibly special. That’s not lost on them. “Because we are put together and we are just naturally friends,” Mike says, “I think it shows people that there’s an alternative to what you’re taught.”

So: 1) Does anyone who counts themselves an RTJ fan think of RTJ as an "Interracial Rap Duo" or just a Rap Duo?, 2) Why is a "black man and a white man working together" an incredible feat?, 3) Do any of you think that if RTJ was comprised of two white guys or two black guys, or a white guy and a Puerto Rican guy that the music would be any less "potent"?, and 4) How many of you were actually taught that black people and white people can't be friends who vibe out and make bangers?

I (think) the sample selection here is going to be biased. For the most part I don't think this is a group of self-segregated white people or militant black separatists. FWIW, I'm a white guy who grew up on hip-hop w/ a multi-racial family, all black neighborhood, mostly black friends growing up, etc.

So,I grew up knowing a white guy who had a black GF who worked with my mom, had half-black siblings, 50/50 white/black friends and co-workers, plenty of black male/white female couples, black "uncles" etc. So, it would never seem odd to me. But I've been in plenty of places where people are very segregated and have probably never had more than a token friend of another race. My best friend growing up was black, but we lost touch. (I remember teachers in school calling us an "odd couple" and a lot of other-mostly black- kids saying we must be fags because we were friends).

But I think in reality: Before RAP Music, most of Killer Mike's fans were black, or only knew him for ADIDAS/Outkast appearances. Most of his music associates were black. I think most of his shows were "chitlin circuit"- small black clubs.

Most of El-P's fans were white.. I mean, I don't think I have to explain this here- but El-P and Def Jux were frequently called whiteboy-nerdrap music (and Co Flow "white rap" for being 1/3 white) all over message boards for most of the past 15 years. A high % of people viewed El-P the way Vast Aire did in his Myspace diatribes. During the latter half of his career El-P was as likely to be associated with and praised by indie rock people- who are, despite the presence of TV on the Radio and Mars Volta guys, seen as "White." And "not hip-hop."

FWIW, I was introduced to Co Flow music by a black Muslim dude in 1997.

When El-P began producing for Mike, all kinds of white people were shocked that they would work together. Independent white as fuck nerdrap El-P working with a guy who was on a major, a Southern rapper (the South v. NY thing being almost as big a divide as the racial thing for some people and during a certain time period), who was on MTV rapping ADIDAS and doing Outkast features a decade ago.

Black people/Mike's fan's reaction was probably more like: "Who is El-P?" Even though guys like Bun "You can't call yourself an Underground King without knowing El-P" B knew who he was, I don't think a lot of Mike's fanbase and expected music collaborators did. Maybe they knew he was once in a group called Company Flow or that he was a NYC underground rapper/producer. So then, Killer Mike told his friends: "He's white, but he's dope." And I'm sure people listened to his beats and had some appreciate for some of his production, but probably not too much for his rapping.

When Killer Mike started working with El-P and went on the first tour with him, his manager was quoted somewhere basically saying it was a good opportunity for him to play shows and make money off El-P's white fanbase- I don't remember if he called them nerd or backpacker or hipster, but he used some term like that.

I saw Killer Mike and El-P in some bar that was staffed by a bunch of aging white rocker-types, and I think Hannibal Buress was the only black guy in the crowd. It was almost all 30 year-old white guys who I doubt had ever been to a Killer Mike show. Well, that's not completely true- there were about 3 black women there for Exquire, and 1 dude impersonating him.

I know that when the news of them working together came out, Mike's PL3DGE was getting ready to drop. I'm pretty sure that was under SRC and TI's imprint, but I don't feel like looking it up. I also know, it sold about 12,000 copies before it fell off the rap charts. I also know that RAP Music, while it was more of a critical than commercial success directly (indirectly I'm sure helped his brand, touring, made RTJ merch possible, etc), sold around 3 times that much. Maybe you can attribute some of that to Adult Swim (more white people, too, I guess) but I bet a lot of it is from white El-P fans.

Why do people make fan art of El-P and Mike as interracial buddy cops and Ebony and Ivory stuff and compare them to other black/white duos from movies and pop culture? I guess because plenty of people see them as a big black guy and a white guy duo. Whether people care about the racial aspect or not, it's certainly something people notice. I don't think you can just say hypothetically: What if there were a different racial and geographical composition?- because you can't separate that from who they are. Two guys of the same race from the same place probably wouldn't have the same hype because they'd be combining less diverse backgrounds. If 2 middle tier independent NYC white guys (if such a thing exist) or 2 black southern independent dudes combine forces, it probably wouldn't have impact.

Your multi-pronged, thoughtful answer is appreciated.

[Employee]

none of this shit matters to me and I don't know how any of that could matter to anyone, its music, its good shit.

regardless of them being white/black, the music is dope.

It's disheartening that in 2014 more people don't take your approach to the music.

[zombie]

im not being sarcastic or trying to be cliche or any of that...

are people seriously shying away form RTJ because of their races, or are people ATTRACTED to RTJ because of their races?

haha, fucking white people ruining everything. I can totally see pitchfork using their races as some kind of tool to get people to like an article they make about RTJ2

fuck me..

[Rachel Hobozal]

im not being sarcastic or trying to be cliche or any of that...

are people seriously shying away form RTJ because of their races, or are people ATTRACTED to RTJ because of their races?

haha, fucking white people ruining everything. I can totally see pitchfork using their races as some kind of tool to get people to like an article they make about RTJ2

fuck me..

It's all about controversy and getting people to talk about it. The "no such thing as bad press" approach. And we're all feeding into their bullshit. Can't win, I guess. Thanks, Employee! Stop talking about race so much, pussy.

[zombie]

lol shit.

you make me feel like i just fell for a prank or something by answering him and getting all worked up about it...

[Rachel Hobozal]

lol shit.

you make me feel like i just fell for a prank or something by answering him and getting all worked up about it...

Haha. I think we all did.

[christian from austin]

this cute ass press ready couple need to take a break and see other people
they took the parts i didnt like about the first rtj and expounded on them
they just love hearing themselves riding over halfway banging beats. he should go back to doing some sampling and focusing on making the beat behind it knock. the all-original beats have become boring.

also,no commitment to any far fetched tangents. it all seems to revolve around "we have it all figured out, we were once rough kids, but now we have found the formula for happiness as reformed thugs living in a mild dystopia"

new levels of smugness have been achieved
bottle it up and send some of it to the space station
they are just really happy with this product
i expect the clear pepsi guys felt the same right before roll out
this album will be bigger than ever
will go see the tour if it stops through

[seagrams hotsauce]

a native texan complaining about sample-less hip hop in 2014

where the fuck have you been for fifteen years

[Rachel Hobozal]

a native texan complaining about sample-less hip hop in 2014

where the fuck have you been for fifteen years

[Mindbender Futurama]

http://www.stereogum.com/1711212/the-ps ... r-story/3/

That it’s the product of a black man and a white man working together makes it all the more potent. Imagine Public Enemy’s politically charged late-’80s frenzy with the black nationalist elements swapped out in favor of an inclusive interracial onslaught. A close-knit black/white partnership fighting the power together seems especially resonant at this juncture of American history, and never more than on “Early.” Whereas Mike raps from firsthand experience, El’s verse is from an observer’s viewpoint, espousing what he calls “that world-beaten awareness that comes from just being a person who pays attention.” Together, they can offer a well-rounded perspective on the world’s messy realities. Their interracial bond shouldn’t be that remarkable in this day and age, and having friends of many races is nothing new for either rapper. But in light of the turmoil that still prevails in America, the connection between Michael Render and Jaime Meline feels incredibly special. That’s not lost on them. “Because we are put together and we are just naturally friends,” Mike says, “I think it shows people that there’s an alternative to what you’re taught.”

So: 1) Does anyone who counts themselves an RTJ fan think of RTJ as an "Interracial Rap Duo" or just a Rap Duo?, 2) Why is a "black man and a white man working together" an incredible feat?, 3) Do any of you think that if RTJ was comprised of two white guys or two black guys, or a white guy and a Puerto Rican guy that the music would be any less "potent"?, and 4) How many of you were actually taught that black people and white people can't be friends who vibe out and make bangers?

Imagine a fucking journalist NOT being so god damn idiotic and revisionist that he wouldn't even DARE to suggest that ever fucking single thing Chuck D criticized in his classic 80's and early 90's Public Enemy music wasn't 1000% valid and accurate. Chuck D wasn't Professor Griff. Fuck this dumb ass hypenitis writing. Talk about the music, not the skin color of the people making it. SMFH

Answer 4 EmpLoLo: they're a rap duo. Just like any other rap duo. We don't need to talk about "racial chemistry" when we talk about the Steppinton Brothers album with Evidence and Alchemist or with the Prhyme album with Royce the 5'9" and Primo. So fuck this guy's malarkey in its racist face. This place was racist when white people dragged black people here, and it's still racist, hundreds of years later. Period, case closed. And without hip hop, it would be way worse, so just shut the fuck up and stop making up a Lethal Weapon buddy-cop story where there needs none. Dude also needs to pull a fucking Peter Rosenberg and apologize publicly for being an enemy to the God Chuck D's immortal legacy of righteous lyricism.

FAKE FUCKS!!!

[christian from austin]

a native texan complaining about sample-less hip hop in 2014

where the fuck have you been for fifteen years

well when you put it that way

[seagrams hotsauce]

well there IS a Pacman sample, so i don't know why you're whining anyway. they will almost certainly be sued (if they didn't clear it ofc) considering how dirty Namco did Lil Flip for Game Over

[ANU]

because it was a successful single, beanie never had any problem with this

[Kace]

4) How many of you were actually taught that black people and white people can't be friends who vibe out and make bangers?

Probably no one here thinks that.

The majority of people on are white right? That's a serious question btw, I always wondered what the 'demographics' here are.

[EMCEE DARTH MALEK]

The only time the duo gets upstaged is on "Close Your Eyes," a politically charged track that features a closing verse from Rage Against The Machine's Zack de la Rocha.

imo mike murked it harder

3. "Dumbing down" production and whatever else: Everyone should know, or at least I think it has been stated plenty by those involved, that RTJ is a completely different project than El or Mike's solo/other projects. The beats, lyrics, concepts are different than what you are going to get from a El-P solo or a Pledge 4 or RAP Music 2, or whatever. This might be the first El-P project that I can't really listen to the instrumentals on their own. I mean, I loved the Cold Vein- even Vast's rapping- but I listen to Oxtrumentals on its own just as much. Producers tend to produce differently for rappers versus music meant to be released on its own (see RJD2, Blockhead, etc), but I've often found that El-P's can stand on its own and work well either way. To me his production w/ Mike works very well for Mike, and RTJ for them both, but without Mike rapping over it I can't imagine wanting to listen to the beats alone.

dude was saying the lyrics were dumbed down. that's ridiculous when we have songs like close your eyes and count to fuck, early, crown.

4. Some people say they'd rather have just KM over the RTJ beats, but I'd rather them do that w/ another RAP Music.. and the RTJ beats/style really wouldn't exist outside of them teaming up as a duo. Otherwise, I think Mike's looking to do a different type of album. I think RTJ was a natural progression for them working together, but also a conscious decision to go in a direction away from what they are really known for as solo artists or even w/ El just producing. And considering El was "dead broke" and had to move into a smaller apt and eat a lot of eggs until the owner of Fat Possum "saved his life" with his C4C advance, RTJ is looking a lot more lucrative than they probably expected, and a welcome professional development. So personally, I'm not sitting around hoping El goes broke and gets hooked on drugs so that he can produce stuff closer to his "dark periods" that enjoyed.

you make a good point & i'd say they have chemistry when riffing off each other. it's just like: why does el need to hop on every track? he comes off nice sometimes but many verses got me pressing FF

[EMCEE DARTH MALEK]

new tattoo i'm getting:

inclusive interracial onslaught

[zombie]

Emcee Darth malek I hear what you're saying about duo rapping and you appreciate Mike more than El. Bit that is what rtj is. If you just like Mike on els beats then listen or wait for the next r.a.p. music album. They're two different projects and to be frustrated that El is rapping with Mike on these albums it's like saying you're frustrated that a car has tires.

[EMCEE DARTH MALEK]

^point well taken. i would say that i wouldn't mind more guests. dre doesn't rap on every track.

[Rachel Hobozal]

There's nothing wrong with liking this album and at the same time saying El-P can be annoying as a rapper. Ask Phife, Doggie.

[Neuro]

i think el-p raps great on this, and i honestly dont know why peeps hate on his rapping in here, the dude can actually rap really well, i respect his style

[Rachel Hobozal]

I'm glad you think that; as incorrect as you are.