rising down...

Dusty Fingers · Post by **Dusty Fingers** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:06 pm

thoughts?

B. Ware tha Siniq · Post by **B. Ware tha Siniq** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:07 pm

Pretty good. Musically it's great, except for a couple hooks (Criminal & Rising Up). As I've said in other threads it's a little Thought deficient, which pleases some and upsets others. I happen to enjoy Mr. Nyquil so for me that's a little disappointing, but that's the only thing disappointing about the album. Beats bang, guests do a good job on the whole, although I wish I could swap some of them out for another Thought, Malik, Dice, or Peedi verse. It's clearly amongst the best albums to come out in 08, for many it will be their favorite... I've gotta let it sink in a little more before I make that claim.

staytribe. · Post by **staytribe.** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:08 pm

waiting for release day.

DredScott · Post by **DredScott** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:18 pm

pretty dope, but not as good as Game Theory like i thought it would be.

"Criminal" is my fuckin joint. "The Grand Return" is another fav. too.

i wish there was more thought and malik b. on here though. and there's way too much truck and porn, those dudes need to drop their own lp if they wanna rhyme cause i don't listen to the roots to hear them on every song...

B. Ware tha Siniq · Post by **B. Ware tha Siniq** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:21 pm

DredScott wrote: too much truck and porn, those dudes need to drop their own lp if they wanna rhyme cause i don't listen to the roots to hear them AT ALL...

Yeah, when I saw "swap out guests" for Thought, Dice, Malik, or Peedi... I'm mainly talking about those dudes. I have no interest in hearing those cats rap. I'm not a huge Mos, Talib, or Common fan at this point either, but they all come off much better than Truck or PORN.

Thun · Post by **Thun** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:06 pm

Wait .... Black Thought rhymes less on this? Copped.

YouTube · Post by **Philaflava** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:10 pm

Paragraph President wrote:Wait .... Black Thought rhymes less on this? Copped.

Stop it. I recall you enjoying Game Theory a lot.

samdoom · Post by **samdoom** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:24 pm

haven't heard the album yet, but i'm amazed at all the black thought hate. dude is one of the most underrated mcs ever. there's no denying his lyrical ability or his showmanship. dude does hundreds of shows per year and kills it every night. he can hang with anyone out there.

Dusty Fingers · Post by **Dusty Fingers** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:00 pm

exactly my thoughts... get all these cornballs off and give me more thought

B. Ware tha Siniq · Post by **B. Ware tha Siniq** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:04 pm

B. Ware tha Siniq wrote:
DredScott wrote: too much truck and porn, those dudes need to drop their own lp if they wanna rhyme cause i don't listen to the roots to hear them AT ALL...
Yeah, when I saw "swap out guests" for Thought, Dice, Malik, or Peedi... I'm mainly talking about those dudes. I have no interest in hearing those cats rap. I'm not a huge Mos, Talib, or Common fan at this point either, but they all come off much better than Truck or PORN.

Actually Porn is the rapper, Truck North is that faggy guitarist they've been touring with who sings some of the hooks... but yeah both of them should've been left off the album.

samdoom · Post by **samdoom** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:18 pm

B. Ware tha Siniq wrote:

Actually Porn is the rapper, Truck North is that faggy guitarist they've been touring with who sings some of the hooks... but yeah both of them should've been left off the album.

truck north is definitely not a guitarist. he may do some singing on hooks, but he primarily raps. also. the "faggy" guitarist is now a part of the roots, not just for touring purposes

B. Ware tha Siniq · Post by **B. Ware tha Siniq** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:28 pm

samdoom wrote:
B. Ware tha Siniq wrote:

Actually Porn is the rapper, Truck North is that faggy guitarist they've been touring with who sings some of the hooks... but yeah both of them should've been left off the album.
truck north is definitely not a guitarist. he may do some singing on hooks, but he primarily raps. also. the "faggy" guitarist is now a part of the roots, not just for touring purposes

Well, then none of the three of them (Truck, Porn, or faggy guitarist) should be on the album (vocally at least, the faggy guitarist can play the guitar).

blastmaster · Post by **blastmaster** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:31 pm

I love parts of this album and dislike some of it.

The production is outstanding. Absolutely ideal. Best drums since the last Roots album.

For me, Black Thought is one of the best "one verse at a time" rappers ever. I cannot listen to him for an entire album though. It all just gets lost together. He is a great writer, but he really stands out in small doses. This format is perfect. Its almost like what Dr. Dre does. He is not interesting enough as a rapper to want to listen to for an hour, but 2 or 3 minutes a time he is dope as fuck.

Peedi and Dice Raw kill it. Get Busy is wonderful. Maybe my favorite Roots song ever. The last part of Kweli's verse is ill. The beginning is gay. I dont ever need to hear Common rap again. Styles impresses as well.

Saigon's verse blew me away. Im not a big fan either. If rap was less saturated and people spent more time with songs, his verse on Criminal would be career-defining.

Speaking of Criminal, can someone cut out the hook? The hooks on this album are fucking terrible. This indie rock acceptance in "progressive" rap is awful. Get that shit out of here. It kills the replay value of this labum for me.

Overall, this is a fantastic album in 2008. Lyrically, its a special album. Really really excellent. Black Thought's best work (by far), for me. The production is as good as it gets.

Sucka Ducka · Post by **Sucka Ducka** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:06 pm

damnit double

Sucka Ducka · Post by **Sucka Ducka** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:07 pm

blastmaster wrote:I love parts of this album and dislike some of it.

The production is outstanding. Absolutely ideal. Best drums since the last Roots album.

For me, Black Thought is one of the best "one verse at a time" rappers ever. I cannot listen to him for an entire album though. It all just gets lost together. He is a great writer, but he really stands out in small doses. This format is perfect. Its almost like what Dr. Dre does. He is not interesting enough as a rapper to want to listen to for an hour, but 2 or 3 minutes a time he is dope as fuck.

on point. i still am a huge black thought fan, but I've always liked him to be broken apart a bit with other emcees.

blastmaster wrote: Saigon's verse blew me away. Im not a big fan either. If rap was less saturated and people spent more time with songs, his verse on Criminal would be career-defining.

Speaking of Criminal, can someone cut out the hook? The hooks on this album are fucking terrible. This indie rock acceptance in "progressive" rap is awful. Get that shit out of here. It kills the replay value of this labum for me.

i am all for "progressive" rap or whatever you might want to label hip hop that experiments a bit, but yeah, this shit is terrible. fuck indie rock collabos. and yeah saigons verse is

overall its more than what I expected out of it, and I really liked game theory. fuck a talib and common these days though.

Captin Planit · Post by **Captin Planit** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:33 pm

Whoawhoawhoa... "faggy guitarist"?

I don't know what the Roots show was like prior to Captain Kirk joining, but the dude kills it constantly and is a talented singer. Their "You Got Me" / "Don't You Worry 'Bout a Thing" medley is crazy.

B. Ware tha Siniq · Post by **B. Ware tha Siniq** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:43 pm

Captin Planit wrote:Whoawhoawhoa... "faggy guitarist"?

I don't know what the Roots show was like prior to Captain Kirk joining, but the dude kills it constantly and is a talented singer. Their "You Got Me" / "Don't You Worry 'Bout a Thing" medley is crazy.

calm down, it's a joke. But I still don't appreciate his singing.

actually I checked the liner notes. Dice Raw sings one of those hooks

and the other sung by Kevin Hanson, of the Illadelphonics, not Captain Kirk. So I can't blame Kirk for any of the wackness. His "Masters of War" cover live was dope.

kracker · Post by **kracker** » Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:28 pm

Best of the year so far that I've heard.

Monotonous · Post by **Monotonous** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:12 am

i dont understand the hate on Black Thought

the most consistent emcee out for the past 15 years

Lid · Post by **Lid** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:03 am

thoughts....

porn is wak
the beats are decent for 80% of the sh1t. darker sound.
shit shoulda had more malik b, and peedi crack.
i wouldnt have minded more black thought verses

YouTube · Post by **Philaflava** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:05 am

On the first listen I have to say the album is very rich. If I had to guess I'd say the majority of their budget went to the production. Lyrically it doesn't stand up against Game Theory. To me, GT was where Black Thought finally solidified his emceeing to the hip-hop world and most importantly, the nay-sayers. It was a lyrical masterpiece.

Rising Down is really dark, complex and even more experimental than their previous efforts. It's a really good album and much like what I said about the new Atmosphere, it could be great after a few more listens.

The MCing on this album is more than sufficient so don't buy into the wack guest spots or little B. Thought. The fact is, there are just so many verses in between Thought that you sometimes forget about him. It's like listening to a Wu album and waiting for Ghost to appear but doesn't until the next track. And Thought does rip the mic, but he is just having fun where as on Game Theory he was making a statement.

The album could use more Peedi and less Porn or Truck, but it is what it is. The hooks are sometimes doable and sometimes doo-doo. But I really am happy with this effort and how The Roots continue to push the envelope even being on a major. How every album has a different sound and how despite their differences at times they come together to create great music.

If I had my wish a collabo with Free, Beans and Peedi would be on the next album with more Malik B and less guest spots. This album is up there for album of the year right now and it'll probably be the best "produced" LP of 2008.

Website · Post by **Random Sample** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:24 am

The first half of the album is better than the second half of the album. I was really digging the first 5 tracks, but after that My interest kind of faded. I will have to listen to it a few more times though.

B. Ware tha Siniq · Post by **B. Ware tha Siniq** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:35 am

Fuck it... since people are doing semi-formal reviews, here goes:

The Roots have surivived through nearly two whole decades of hip hop music by never really giving a fuck about what the popular aesthetic was. In the beginning some may argue that they grew out of the Native Tongues mold and stood in opposition to what was popular in the industry and I think the average listener can hear that in their first three records. As their career has grown and changed they've switched their vibe and overall sound up with every record, more drastically with each release post-Things Fall Apart.

Phrenology was the record that convinced me they'd jumped the shark for some indie/ghetto rock fushion, for me Tipping Point was Thought's magnum opus and the closest thing they've ever done to a record that could've been accepted by the mainstream audience (had they picked the right singles and videos, which they did not). Not surprisingly it's probably their most hated record on the internet.

Game Theory was arguably their best album ever from start to finish. Very little filler, a really powerful dark sound, great guest spots, and Thought exhibiting his vocal/lyrical dominance while continuing the cultural/quasi-sociopolitical insight he started delving into on Tipping Point. But more than anything it showed that they no longer gave two shits about trying to appeal at all to a mainstream audience, even with their single choices (even though they still want more sales).

This time around they took the darkness of Game Theory and delved headfirst into it, Kamal experimenting with new synths and abandoning the Fender Rhodes as his primary weapon of choice. The drums are, as always, brutally hard. There are two, maybe three bad hooks on the album... but that's not a significant concern considering it's always been an issue for the Roots.

Despite the Tribute to Lyricist Lounge '98 guestlist, the sonic integrity and the lyrical perfectionism of Thought make sure that even the fallen hip hop coffee shop all-stars (Common, Talib, & Mos) all step their game up, and don't provide the same disappointment that they have with their own recent releases. Newcomers P.O.R.N. & Truck North hold their own, but to be honest they sound a little outclassed amongst the talent showcased across this album. Malik B is thankfully back again to provide two of the most ferocious performances on the album, leaving die-hard fans to yearn for another full on Thought + Malik Roots album. Dice Raw is here, sounding as hungry and unsigned as ever. Saigon, Wale, & Styles P provide the same kind of heat here as they have with their own recent material, over production that they should all be so lucky to have on their own releases on day.

In many ways the album is reminiscent of earlier Roots releases in format. There are a lot of guests, and all the familiar cats are here. Unlike their last two releases, where Thought seemed the main focus, the sound is what drives this album, and the MCing, while very very solid, is really secondary to the music. And the music is excellent.

B. Ware tha Siniq · Post by **B. Ware tha Siniq** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:43 am

Why did the Europeans get a real version (still short, at about a minute in a half) of Unwritten? Shit is much better than the fake intro cut off shit they do on the US version. WTF is that about?

Joe Pesci · Post by **Joe Pesci** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:21 am

Liked this album a lot...coudl've done wit out the Porn guest verses too but it certainly didn't ruin any songs for me.

Criminal is an great song...the hook ain't all that but like somebody said above, Saigon murdered that shit. Get Busy and Rising Down were the other really standout tracks for me. I would've liked some more Thought, as I think he's an excellent rapper, but fuck it what can you do.

Production was def. very "electronic" as I think it was ?uest who described it, but it works very well

Probably my favorite album of 08

SuperFeen · Post by **SuperFeen** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:39 am

speaking of PORN verses, I really like his verse on I Can't Help It, that self-deprecating flow is just hilarious

PTS · Post by **PTS** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:19 pm

B. Ware tha Siniq wrote:Why did the Europeans get a real version (still short, at about a minute in a half) of Unwritten? Shit is much better than the fake intro cut off shit they do on the US version. WTF is that about?

To compensate the fact that we have Birthday Girl on our version.

B. Ware tha Siniq · Post by **B. Ware tha Siniq** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:23 pm

PTS wrote:
B. Ware tha Siniq wrote:Why did the Europeans get a real version (still short, at about a minute in a half) of Unwritten? Shit is much better than the fake intro cut off shit they do on the US version. WTF is that about?
To compensate the fact that we have Birthday Girl on our version.

, yes, but it still doesn't explain why they left if off the US, wonder if it was a sample clearance issue.

Mindbender Futurama · Post by **Mindbender Futurama** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:29 pm

Captin Planit wrote:Whoawhoawhoa... "faggy guitarist"?

I don't know what the Roots show was like prior to Captain Kirk joining, but the dude kills it constantly and is a talented singer. Their "You Got Me" / "Don't You Worry 'Bout a Thing" medley is crazy.

crazy agreement with your opinions lately, homie

I heard one Black Thought verse on the album that was a bit below his very elevated standard, for the first time in like 8 years. besides that, from what i heard, it's the typical scenario for the Roots.

i ain't heard the album, but from what i heard so far, it sounds good, but not as good as 'Game Theory'... which means ANOTHER fucking year of waiting for the very gifted Roots to figure it out, and be underappreciated by the masses still

Black Thought is a black hole that sucks out all the potential for the Roots to rise to a higher plateau. he's dope enough of an MC to go up against anyone, but his introversion continues to suffocate the group's elevation.

how many times are we going to watch them do this, make an album that's 80% great, 20%

i'm not sick of the Roots, but i'm kinda sick of everyone else knowing what to do except them... and they are musical geniuses

B. Ware tha Siniq · Post by **B. Ware tha Siniq** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:57 pm

Mindbender Futurama wrote:
Captin Planit wrote:Whoawhoawhoa... "faggy guitarist"?

I don't know what the Roots show was like prior to Captain Kirk joining, but the dude kills it constantly and is a talented singer. Their "You Got Me" / "Don't You Worry 'Bout a Thing" medley is crazy.
crazy agreement with your opinions lately, homie

I heard one Black Thought verse on the album that was a bit below his very elevated standard, for the first time in like 8 years. besides that, from what i heard, it's the typical scenario for the Roots.

i ain't heard the album, but from what i heard so far, it sounds good, but not as good as 'Game Theory'... which means ANOTHER fucking year of waiting for the very gifted Roots to figure it out, and be underappreciated by the masses still

Black Thought is a black hole that sucks out all the potential for the Roots to rise to a higher plateau. he's dope enough of an MC to go up against anyone, but his introversion continues to suffocate the group's elevation.

how many times are we going to watch them do this, make an album that's 80% great, 20%

i'm not sick of the Roots, but i'm kinda sick of everyone else knowing what to do except them... and they are musical geniuses

Calm down man.

A) The album is pretty fuckin' good. Don't sell it short yet, some people will like it more than Game Theory I think.

B) The Roots will never achieve the type of commercial success we all hope they would, but they'll continue to do well enough to keep making music. They know that, in fact this album is proof that they don't give a flying fuck. They just want to make good music, and that's a good thing.