2014-15 NBA Off-Season Thread

[Reason]

^^

[Reason]

Anthony Bennett seemed to look lighter and much improved in SL, does anyone think he can develop into anything more than a bench player?

hell yes. bennett got in relative nba condition and showed off exactly what he is capable of towards the last third/fourth of last season. one game in particular comes to mind that will get you very excited imo.



there's a bunch of caveats of course. the kings are really bad. it was late in the season in a game between two shitty teams. but it was still nba competition

he clearly shows his range is legit and nba-usable. he's clearly a stretch 4. in fact, if you want to compare him to the guy who is leaving, he's basically a shorter, more athletic version of love without any of the passing ability/instinct (not that he has none, but just that love is on a different level for a big man) and not as much of a perimeter move/counter-move game (love's stepback jumper move behind 3pt line comes to mind for example) on offense

but otherwise he rebounds very similarly. he's like a 3 point shooting charles barkley with less athleticism/explosiveness but similar rebounding skill and obviously way more (consistent) range.

can't really critique the other parts of his game (help defense/man-to-man defense/etc.) until he plays consistently meaningful rotation minutes where he's allowed to fail (or shine)

another aspect of bennett that is underrated is that once he puts the ball on the floor with a half-step on his man, he is getting fouled and going to the line pretty automatically, that kind of body (short and compact center of gravity but LOOOONG arms) for a big man when the 3 point shot has to be respected is foul-drawing heaven

[Gregg Popabitch]

Wiggins will NEVER be as good a scorer as T-mac or Kobe. He'll be more of a paul george type scorer at best.

He'll be a better scorer than paul george is.

[Reason]

Wiggins will NEVER be as good a scorer as T-mac or Kobe. He'll be more of a paul george type scorer at best.

what are you basing this on exactly?

before you respond how much of him in summer league did you see and were you aware of the following:

- wiggin's true shooting percentage in college
- the fact he set the record for most points scored by a freshman in Kansas history
- the fact that no player in the bill self era averaged more than 13 field goal attempts per game
- the fact that he exploded for 40+ points and 30+ points within a few games of each other after embiid and his touches went injured

basically, here are the different ways wiggins can score:

1. transition
2. foul line (much more advanced free throw shooter at this stage than t-mac for example)
3. offensive rebounds/putbacks
4. catch and shoot jumpers all the way out to the 3 point line
5. in the paint/at the rim off his explosive and long first step

here are the qualities that allow him to do these things with EASE:

1. extreme athleticism
2. excellent length
3. extremely solid and strong (again, to compare to your examples, kobe or t-mac, he is so much more physically advanced at this stage than they were it's not even funny) allowing him to finish through contact or make moves without coughing up the rock through good defense to draw fouls
4. disciplined, consistent form on his jumper, including elevation to make it nearly impossible to block, he has textbook form
5. already one of the best overall spin moves in the nba that he can execute in transition or in medium speed/halfcourt offense
6. great sense of off-the-ball movement to get free which is literally the only thing bill self taught him in college that translates to the nba
7. emotionally doesn't get ruffled, he's even-keeled and calm in tough situations

he literally has 2 points he has to refine and work to get to the rest of his game: 1) ballhandling-shooting off the dribble (liberally combining those two) and 2) passing out of the double team (which can come only with experience)

and he literally has only ONE point in his game that is questionable to rate at a star or superstar level: passing vision.

literally every other facet of a person's game that would make him a great scorer is at a superstar level in wiggins other than shooting off the dribble/elite ballhandling (which i believe he will master as well), so yea, if he pans out the way i think he does he will be one of the best in the nba at every single facet of the offensive game perennially other than making lebron-like/magic-like passes

he'll be averaging 25 per game by year three at the LATEST

[naturalborn103]

Anthony Bennett seemed to look lighter and much improved in SL, does anyone think he can develop into anything more than a bench player?

hell yes. bennett got in relative nba condition and showed off exactly what he is capable of towards the last third/fourth of last season. one game in particular comes to mind that will get you very excited imo.



there's a bunch of caveats of course. the kings are really bad. it was late in the season in a game between two shitty teams. but it was still nba competition

he clearly shows his range is legit and nba-usable. he's clearly a stretch 4. in fact, if you want to compare him to the guy who is leaving, he's basically a shorter, more athletic version of love without any of the passing ability/instinct (not that he has none, but just that love is on a different level for a big man) and not as much of a perimeter move/counter-move game (love's stepback jumper move behind 3pt line comes to mind for example) on offense

but otherwise he rebounds very similarly. he's like a 3 point shooting charles barkley with less athleticism/explosiveness but similar rebounding skill and obviously way more (consistent) range.

can't really critique the other parts of his game (help defense/man-to-man defense/etc.) until he plays consistently meaningful rotation minutes where he's allowed to fail (or shine)

another aspect of bennett that is underrated is that once he puts the ball on the floor with a half-step on his man, he is getting fouled and going to the line pretty automatically, that kind of body (short and compact center of gravity but LOOOONG arms) for a big man when the 3 point shot has to be respected is foul-drawing heaven

You are the man Reason, but you seem too optimistic on way too much players. Comparing his rebounding to Barkley and his game to Love seems like quite a stretch. He looked like he was in better shape, but he honestly didn't impress that much with his actual game in summer league.

[naturalborn103]

Wiggins will NEVER be as good a scorer as T-mac or Kobe. He'll be more of a paul george type scorer at best.

what are you basing this on exactly?

before you respond how much of him in summer league did you see and were you aware of the following:

- wiggin's true shooting percentage in college
- the fact he set the record for most points scored by a freshman in Kansas history
- the fact that no player in the bill self era averaged more than 13 field goal attempts per game
- the fact that he exploded for 40+ points and 30+ points within a few games of each other after embiid and his touches went injured

basically, here are the different ways wiggins can score:

1. transition
2. foul line (much more advanced free throw shooter at this stage than t-mac for example)
3. offensive rebounds/putbacks
4. catch and shoot jumpers all the way out to the 3 point line
5. in the paint/at the rim off his explosive and long first step

here are the qualities that allow him to do these things with EASE:

1. extreme athleticism
2. excellent length
3. extremely solid and strong (again, to compare to your examples, kobe or t-mac, he is so much more physically advanced at this stage than they were it's not even funny) allowing him to finish through contact or make moves without coughing up the rock through good defense to draw fouls
4. disciplined, consistent form on his jumper, including elevation to make it nearly impossible to block, he has textbook form
5. already one of the best overall spin moves in the nba that he can execute in transition or in medium speed/halfcourt offense
6. great sense of off-the-ball movement to get free which is literally the only thing bill self taught him in college that translates to the nba
7. emotionally doesn't get ruffled, he's even-keeled and calm in tough situations

he literally has 2 points he has to refine and work to get to the rest of his game: 1) ballhandling-shooting off the dribble (liberally combining those two) and 2) passing out of the double team (which can come only with experience)

and he literally has only ONE point in his game that is questionable to rate at a star or superstar level: passing vision.

literally every other facet of a person's game that would make him a great scorer is at a superstar level in wiggins other than shooting off the dribble/elite ballhandling (which i believe he will master as well), so yea, if he pans out the way i think he does he will be one of the best in the nba at every single facet of the offensive game perennially other than making lebron-like/magic-like passes

he'll be averaging 25 per game by year three at the LATEST

From what I have seen of Wiggins it seems like he has a very hard time finishing through contact.

[Gregg Popabitch]

This is one of the best analytical articles I've read on how Love's game may change for the better with his move to Cleveland: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/a-mov ... evin-love/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Blockhead]

Reason, I'm not a professional scout so I can't begin to argue with your points here. All I'm basing that off was from watching a few of his summer league games and thinking "hmm...aside from that awesome step back jumper, he's not a particularly good shooter". I guess Kobe was once like that too but just seeing him struggle to score in summer league (against total bums) was a red flag to me. From what I saw, He was not a knock down shooter by any stretch though and that's what concerned me.
I'm sure all the other facets you listed will certainly help him score well but when you think of elite scorers (which is what the conversation was about when I made that comment) everyone of those guys can knock down 3's and had a good mid range game. Lebron was the only one who HAD an iffy shot but he's also a freak of nature that no one on earth can stop.
So, again, not a scout, just going of watching him play, he seemed way more paul george than any of the other elite players in the league. Keep in mind, people were comparing him to the best scorers of our generation. Which is why I made the comment.
But, hey, I could easily be wrong. And I have no doubt he'll be a very good pro.
Another thing that worries me a little is that he's canadian which means he's a super nice guy but, ultimately , probably soft as fuck.

[Gregg Popabitch]

Are we really basing shit off summer league?

Can we actually base shit off of College or even preseason because we'll see guys in the context of an actual organized offense.

[Blockhead]

Are we really basing shit off summer league?

Can we actually base shit off of College or even preseason because we'll see guys in the context of an actual organized offense.

I'm basing it off what I've seen, so yes. Thus all the qualifiers and no real allegiance to any of the opinions I'm saying. Just thoughts, bro.

[naturalborn103]

[Gregg Popabitch]

So the T-wolves got Thaddeus Young along with Wiggins and the first rounder for Love.

Not bad overall if you ask me.

[Req]

^^

he just pulled out of the USA WC squad you shitlicking ol milk of magnesia worshipper.

what are you basing this on exactly?

before you respond how much of him in summer league did you see?

[Gregg Popabitch]

Are we really basing shit off summer league?

Can we actually base shit off of College or even preseason because we'll see guys in the context of an actual organized offense.

I'm basing it off what I've seen, so yes. Thus all the qualifiers and no real allegiance to any of the opinions I'm saying. Just thoughts, bro.

Thoughts are too crazy. I can't deal with them.

Only feelings.

[binary]

hate those two buffoons.

[VideoKilledThe]

The Wiggins step back jumper is much improved from his days @ KU

Comparing him to Tmac or Kobe is flat out unfair. You're comparing him to some of the greatest wing scorers of ALL TIME.

Kobe had dreams of challenging Kareem as the career all time leading scorer, T-mac averaged over 35 in his prime, if these are the only comparisons people can come up with for him than clearly you think he is going to be really fucking good.

[capable_keL]

So the T-wolves got Thaddeus Young along with Wiggins and the first rounder for Love.

Not bad overall if you ask me.

bro, let's be honest: this is an epic win for the Wolves depending on how you value Wiggins/Love. I would do this deal even if Love wanted to stay in Minnesota, it's that good

personally, if Lebron thinks he is going to waltz to another championship by adding the worst defensive PF in the league he is going to be severely disappointed

i can't wait for the season to start

[Gregg Popabitch]

So the T-wolves got Thaddeus Young along with Wiggins and the first rounder for Love.

Not bad overall if you ask me.

bro, let's be honest: this is an epic win for the Wolves depending on how you value Wiggins/Love. I would do this deal even if Love wanted to stay in Minnesota, it's that good

personally, if Lebron thinks he is going to waltz to another championship by adding the worst defensive PF in the league he is going to be severely disappointed

i can't wait for the season to start

this is the best haul ever for a top 10 player during his prime.

Let's take a look:

Love haul > Carmelo Anthony and Chauncey Billups to NY for Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, and Timofey Mozgov and a first round pick.

Love haul > Kevin Garnett to Boston for Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair, Ryan Gomes, and Theo Ratliff.

Love haul > Shaq to Miami for Lamar Odom, Brian Grant, Caron Butler, a first rounder and a second rounder.

Love haul > Deron Williams to Brooklyn for Derrick Favors, Devin Harris, and two first round draft picks.

Love haul > Charles Barkley to Phoenix for Jeff Hornacek, Andrew Lang, Tim Perry.

Love haul > Jason Kidd to NJ for Stephon Marbury, Johnny Newman, Soumalia Samake.

Love haul > Tracy McGrady, Juwan Howard, Tyrone Lue, Reece Gaines to Houston for Steve Francis, Cuttino Mobley, and Kelvin Cato.

Love haul > Moses Malone to Philadelphia for Jim Caldwell and a first round pick.

BTW, Amar'e is the worst defensive PF in the league.

[alpha]

Kel Broussard is Flip gonna let them run and be lob city 2.0?

[Gregg Popabitch]

Kel Broussard is Flip gonna let them run and be lob city 2.0?

holy shit, i was telling nat born yesterday that they were going to be the new lob city.

[Reason]

You are the man Reason, but you seem too optimistic on way too much players. Comparing his rebounding to Barkley and his game to Love seems like quite a stretch. He looked like he was in better shape, but he honestly didn't impress that much with his actual game in summer league.

what players?

bennett compares to barkley in that they are both undersized height-wise but are both wide-bodied with enough quickness/speed to make them even more able to rebound with the lateral speed often required to rebound, that's all i meant by that, but in no way did i mean he IS on barkley's level, barkley is clearly more explosive and therefore a superior rebounder but i wouldn't be shocked if bennett averaged 10-11 rebounds a game some day

again, the only way i compared his game to love's is that they are both stretch 4 capable. obviously love is a superstar/top ten player/yaddayadda so i'm not comparing bennett to him without these specifications.

[Reason]

Reason, I'm not a professional scout so I can't begin to argue with your points here. All I'm basing that off was from watching a few of his summer league games and thinking "hmm...aside from that awesome step back jumper, he's not a particularly good shooter". I guess Kobe was once like that too but just seeing him struggle to score in summer league (against total bums) was a red flag to me. From what I saw, He was not a knock down shooter by any stretch though and that's what concerned me.
I'm sure all the other facets you listed will certainly help him score well but when you think of elite scorers (which is what the conversation was about when I made that comment) everyone of those guys can knock down 3's and had a good mid range game. Lebron was the only one who HAD an iffy shot but he's also a freak of nature that no one on earth can stop.
So, again, not a scout, just going of watching him play, he seemed way more paul george than any of the other elite players in the league. Keep in mind, people were comparing him to the best scorers of our generation. Which is why I made the comment.
But, hey, I could easily be wrong. And I have no doubt he'll be a very good pro.
Another thing that worries me a little is that he's canadian which means he's a super nice guy but, ultimately , probably soft as fuck.

paul george is much more deliberate and doesn't have the sheer explosiveness or strength, wiggins' body is one giant coiled spring

and i highlighted that one line in your post because wiggins is a freak of nature as well. he doesn't have the handle near lebron's but remember, lebron came into the league to play lots of minutes with sheer opposites of point guards in the daniel gibsons/damon jones'/ricky davis'/larry hughes' whereas wiggins is going to be playing and running alongside RICKY RUBIO. this is a huge factor in my thinking that wiggins, paired with the right teammate(s), can easily score on a level of a kobe or a t-mac

the problem with the majority of people's perceptions when it comes to players like kobe or wiggins is that they remember the supremely difficult one-on-one shot kobe makes and their brain tends to ignore the 7 out of 10 that he took that way that he missed and only remember the 3 of 10. wiggins will methodically get 20+ a game when given the right opportunity just from easy basketball plays and putbacks without showing the and 1 moves that stick in people's brains. the biggest difference in wiggins' favor when you invoked the names of t-mac and kobe...the thing i immediately thought was "oh shit, wiggins' efficiency in scoring will be markedly better"

i don't think wiggins gives a shit about style points, and that's a good thing. lebron is similar. he just wants to tomahawk the ball through the hoop. he's not trying to do 360's.

[Gregg Popabitch]

You are the man Reason, but you seem too optimistic on way too much players. Comparing his rebounding to Barkley and his game to Love seems like quite a stretch. He looked like he was in better shape, but he honestly didn't impress that much with his actual game in summer league.

what players?

bennett compares to barkley in that they are both undersized height-wise but are both wide-bodied with enough quickness/speed to make them even more able to rebound with the lateral speed often required to rebound, that's all i meant by that, but in no way did i mean he IS on barkley's level, barkley is clearly more explosive and therefore a superior rebounder but i wouldn't be shocked if bennett averaged 10-11 rebounds a game some day

again, the only way i compared his game to love's is that they are both stretch 4 capable. obviously love is a superstar/top ten player/yaddayadda so i'm not comparing bennett to him without these specifications.

Bennett will never average 10-11 rebounds per game even when he cuts weight.

[Blockhead]

CarmelAIDS Anthony looking trim, boys.

[Gregg Popabitch]

CarmelAIDS Anthony looking trim, boys.

yeah, what's up with him and Lebron looking like they've lost 10-20 pounds?

[Reason]

You are the man Reason, but you seem too optimistic on way too much players. Comparing his rebounding to Barkley and his game to Love seems like quite a stretch. He looked like he was in better shape, but he honestly didn't impress that much with his actual game in summer league.

what players?

bennett compares to barkley in that they are both undersized height-wise but are both wide-bodied with enough quickness/speed to make them even more able to rebound with the lateral speed often required to rebound, that's all i meant by that, but in no way did i mean he IS on barkley's level, barkley is clearly more explosive and therefore a superior rebounder but i wouldn't be shocked if bennett averaged 10-11 rebounds a game some day

again, the only way i compared his game to love's is that they are both stretch 4 capable. obviously love is a superstar/top ten player/yaddayadda so i'm not comparing bennett to him without these specifications.

Bennett will never average 10-11 rebounds per game even when he cuts weight.

yep i agree, just said i wouldn't be shocked if he developed into that

you're probably right rather easily

[naturalborn103]

I would be extremely shocked.

[capable_keL]

http://www.csnbayarea.com/warriors/warr ... -klay-love
Warriors consulted Curry, who wouldn't trade Klay for Love

On May 29, amid swirling rumors that the Warriors were reportedly contemplating trading Klay Thompson to Minnesota for power forward Kevin Love, Stephen Curry let it be known he didn't want Thompson to be dealt.

"I definitely want him to continue to be my backcourt mate and keep pushing," Curry said.

It sounds as if Curry's wishes will come true.

According to multiple national reports, the Timberwolves will trade Love to Cleveland in a package that will land them Andrew Wiggins. The reported deal can't become official until Aug. 23.

[RELATED: Report: NBA could block Love trade to Cavs]

On Tuesday morning, Curry joined The Dan Patrick Show, and answered several questions regarding Thompson:

Patrick: "How often did you talk to Klay Thompson about the possibility that he could be traded for Kevin Love?"

Curry: "A few times, just to see where his head's at. He actually took it pretty well ... Obviously, our trade didn't go through and it didn't happen and they are keeping our core intact. I know he's pretty happy with how things turned out."

Patrick: "Well, did management consult you?"

Curry: "Yeah, they asked for my opinion ... It's just a matter of if you think that move would make you better as a team. I didn't have an answer for it cuz you'd be giving up a lot to get him. But, uh, you know, not my decision."

Patrick: "Would you have done it?"

Curry: "I don't think you can give up Klay to make that happen. We have such a good core together. You got David Lee, Andrew Bogut ... We were a great team last year. Put the same core together another year, we gotta get better, right? That's the mission. I gotta hopefully prove that message right this year."

looks like the glass ankled god nixed the love deal. Oh boy, I hope this doesn't come back to haunt the dubs

...not that there is anything wrong with being a 6-7 seed every year

[peanut butter]

On my birthday, no less


PEACE

[peanut butter]

PEACE