The Official Super Bowl Thread

[naturalborn103]

The goal of a QB is to execute the game plan...I repeat: the goal of a QB is to execute the game plan. If the weather is shitty than you are going to run the ball. If the defense is poor against the run than you are going to run the ball. If the defense is good at pressuring the QB than you are going to dink N dunk. These are factors that contribute to the stats. The goal isn't to pass for a lot of yards. It's to execute the game plan that gives you the best chance to win. Period.

the gameplan is make 4yd passes and don't turn it over you shouldn't get a ton of credit for a 3point win, its certainly massively easier than the gameplan Manning has to execute to win

*Passing stats have been inflated post-05 because of Bill Polian initiated rule changes.

no it was actually calling the penalties that was the change, Bellichek realized they didn't call penalties in the playoffs and exploited it, NE raped Indy's WR in 03/04 it was like the 60s again with what they got away with those games

Manning's best regular season was 04, and his stats from 05-09 have been very consistent and better than his 03 year

having the best coach of the era certainly helps your chances of winning a title, something you've all ignored over and over again, do you guys honestly think that if you switched Manning and Brady from 01-04 that the Colts would have 3titles and the Pats 0? Manning was clearly a stronger QB during that timeframe you guys are just blinded by rings and not using logic

from 01-04 Manning was clearly better, from 05-09 its been very close they've been basically equal Brady with the best year, Manning with slight edges in the other years, the reason Manning is better is he's been elite longer

You keep saying this, how Manning has to play better to win.. But you keep avoiding/ignoring the ONE time Manning did win he played HORRIBLE all playoffs.. Brady could not get away with playing that horrible and win.

[naturalborn103]

Super Bowl thought: Peyton is no Brady
February, 7, 2010

Peyton Manning is a great quarterback, but what we learned tonight in Super Bowl XLIV is this: Heג€™s no Tom Brady in the pressure moment on the gameג€™s biggest stage.

Looking to lead the Colts back from a 24-17 fourth-quarter deficit against the Saints, Manning threw an interception that cornerback Tracy Porter returned 74 yards for a touchdown, a key play in New Orleans' 31-17 upset victory.

It was a costly mistake, the kind of miscue that Brady, in his four Super Bowl appearances, never made in the critical fourth-quarter situation.

Even in the Patriotsג€™ Super Bowl loss to the Giants, Brady had led a fourth-quarter drive for a touchdown before the defense couldnג€™t hold.

For all the stories that were written over the last week about which quarterback was the best of the decade ג€“ Brady or Manning ג€“ one aspect was overlooked: How Manning would lead the Colts in Super Bowl XLIV.

If you measure a quarterback by how he responds in the pressure moments on the gameג€™s biggest stage, the debate ended with authority tonight.

[naturalborn103]

http://www.manningface.com/

Not sure how I missed this.

[eternalreflection]

You keep saying this, how Manning has to play better to win.. But you keep avoiding/ignoring the ONE time Manning did win he played HORRIBLE all playoffs.. Brady could not get away with playing that horrible and win.

he didn't play horrible vs NE or Chicago in the superbowl run stop using QB rating it sucks, if you are going to give Brady credit for his StLouis and NYG games you have to give Manning credit for his game vs Chicago

but you just see 2gw(well 1failed since well there was time left and Eli) drives and pretend the rest of the game didn't happen, the offense scored 13 and 14 points in those games, clearly enough to win but scoring 17 isn't obviously

remember that game vs SD in 06, Brady throws an INT in the 4th quarter down 8 with 8minutes to go, pretty critical spot right? but the returner is dumb and lets the ball get knocked loose so Brady got a second chance, all skill right?

[naturalborn103]

[quote]I thought Simms and Nantz were fine. I like them. But Manning's pass was so horrendous at such a huge moment that NOT calling him out for it just seemed strange. He had a chance to be immortal if the Colts won that game; instead, troublemakers like me get to make Manning Face jokes and point out that Manning lost seven career playoff games that were up for grabs in the fourth quarter. In fact:

Montana, playoffs: 16-7
Brady, playoffs: 14-4
Elway, playoffs: 14-8
Favre, playoffs: 13-11
Warner, playoffs: 9-4
Manning, playoffs: 9-9
Roethlisberger, playoffs: 8-2

So it was a classic "Sliding Doors" moment: If Manning comes through and Indy prevails, his r

[ric]

natural born would lay this one drive against every play and every pass in peytons career, including the colts superbowl win.

If you measure a quarterback by how he responds in the pressure moments on the gameג€™s biggest stage, the debate ended with authority tonight.

thank god you dont measure a QB by how they "respond in the pressure moments on the games biggest stage".

even so, again, wheres the pressure? they had 3 minutes to go 30 yards. they have been known for driving the whole field in 45 seconds. wheres the pressure? and if by "pressure moments" the author means "a single moment where something significant happened to have happened" then ok - there was pressure. more results oriented thinking though. if porter had batted the ball down no one would be judging that pass as a choke. if the ball that drew brees threw practically into that one colt defenders hands (thrown to one reciever surrounded by 3 or 4 colts) hadnt slipped through the DBs hands, brees would be the choky one. instead peyton lets down his guard and throws a shitty pass and now his name is no longer up for grabs when it comes to GOAT discussions

they blundered around the goal line in the last couple minutes and wasted tons of precious time which seems the most chokey thing that happened in the game and must be noted in peytons credentials re: his role as on field general and coach but no one is talking about this because they were already down two TDs

[naturalborn103]

double post

[naturalborn103]

natural born would lay this one drive against every play and every pass in peytons career, including the colts superbowl win.

which was won by the defense..

'What ifs' don't count for shit in real life.. I could play that same card for the Pats losing to the Giants on a whole lot of different plays.

And to say there was no pressure on that drive is .

If you measure a quarterback by how he responds in the pressure moments on the gameג€™s biggest stage, the debate ended with authority tonight.

thank god you dont measure a QB by how they "respond in the pressure moments on the games biggest stage".

....

[ric]

lets say that it was. no choke. superbowl win. were discussing choking as it relates to the outcome of the superbowl, remember?

[naturalborn103]

lets say that it was. no choke. superbowl win. were discussing choking as it relates to the outcome of the superbowl, remember?

English please.

[an-also]

Talk about adding insult to injury. The Saintsג€™ Super Bowl T-shirt are being made at an Adidas plant in Indianapolis.

[eternalreflection]

I have seen you use passer rating to justify why you would suck Manning dick on minutes notice.. But once it shows something bad about him it sucks? And Manning did not have a good game vs. the Pats or the Bears. Pats defense fell apart in the 2nd half, and Bears where just not that good of a team. Colts defense won that chip for the team, not Peyton. I think even you have to agree.

jesus christ the defense won the first 2games, they gave up 34points vs NE quite the performance, and the Chicago team was a very good defense bad offense team, so stop with the defense won the championship shit, you are wrong

QB rating is ok, but stats like ANY/A are much better, which factor in sacks as well, something that Manning is very good at avoiding and someone like is lol bad at avoiding, Brady is good but nowhere near Manning's level at avoiding sacks

You and dumb ass ric are the only people still holding tight to Mannings little balls, it is time you realized what many people realized a long time ago.. He is a great regular season qb, the 2nd best overall of this decade, but playoffs DO matter more then regular season and he does not get it done when he needs too..

I'm not stupid enough to think 4games is a better indicator of someone's skill than 190games, shit happens NE could have easily lost all 4superbowls, I mean the Ty Law pick 6 is the only reason they beat St Louis, and the other 3 were definitely up in the air

SOME DRIVES ARE MORE IMPORTANT THEN OTHER... you still do not grasp this concept

I totally get this, I just disagree massively with the scale, you think that a 30yd FG drive in a tied game, is the exact same difficulty to achieve as a 80yd td drive down 7

you discount a Brady fail like the INT vs SD in the same situation needing a TD late in the game, he got bailed out by his WR forcing a fumble though so he's not a choker obviously

[GM Dizzy Skillespie]

I got one thing to say....


"I feel great. I'm going to motherfucking disney world!" - Carl Nicks


god that was fucking hilarious.

[A__TRAIN]

Reggie Bush or Pierre Thomas?

poll idea?

[ric]

I totally get this, I just disagree massively with the scale, you think that a 30yd FG drive in a tied game, is the exact same difficulty to achieve as a 80yd td drive down 7

hey speaking of that interception, my dude was telling me today that he heard some analysis that the route reggie ran on that INT play was not very well run and i think you said this earlier in thread.

can you explain what happened please? thank you.

cause what i say was peyton throwing a pass to a hawkish db. so what happened such that reggies route was ill performed?

[naturalborn103]

I'm not stupid enough to think 4games is a better indicator of someone's skill than 190games, shit happens NE could have easily lost all 4superbowls, I mean the Ty Law pick 6 is the only reason they beat St Louis, and the other 3 were definitely up in the air

No one is questioning the mans skill.. He does not perform up to par in big games, which is a lot more important then how he does during the regular season.. So that 9-9 is a lot more important then whatever his regular season record is.

Getting 1 seed and having best record of this whole last decade ain't shit if your playoff record is 9-9. NE could have easily lost all those superbowls, but it is what you do in close games that defines you, not how many TDs you can throw in a blowout, or meaningless regular season game. All these 'what ifs' you keep throwing does not mean anything in the real world, just loser talk to make you feel better about yourself.

It is funny you put all the Colt wins on Manning shoulders, but you don't blame him for the losses.

[capable_keL]

Reggie Bush or Pierre Thomas?

poll idea?

whose better for the saints moving forward?

i doubt the saints will over pay for reggie

[Reason]

http://www.manningface.com/

lol

[naturalborn103]

Reggie Bush or Pierre Thomas?

poll idea?

whose better for the saints moving forward?

i doubt the saints will over pay for reggie

P Thomas. R Bush is a great addition, but he isn't worth as much as Thomas and will also be overpaid on his next contract.

[Gregg Popabitch]

I'm not stupid enough to think 4games is a better indicator of someone's skill than 190games

It's actually 18 vs. 190 games.

and every one of those 18 games are against good teams.

I think once eternalreflection said that "blowing out bad teams is the best indicator of how good teams are". Foolhardy is what I say. The best indicator of how good a team is by how well you play against teams as good or maybe even better then you (if you want to use eternalreflection's theory of teams that blow out bad teams are better).

[ThaJim2]

I totally get this, I just disagree massively with the scale, you think that a 30yd FG drive in a tied game, is the exact same difficulty to achieve as a 80yd td drive down 7

hey speaking of that interception, my dude was telling me today that he heard some analysis that the route reggie ran on that INT play was not very well run and i think you said this earlier in thread.

can you explain what happened please? thank you.

cause what i say was peyton throwing a pass to a hawkish db. so what happened such that reggies route was ill performed?

Here I will tell you what happened. The colts ran the same play two plays before the interception so Porter saw this and made a great read and jump. Wayne had a slight slip on the play but even if he ran the route to perfection the only difference would have been Porter getting tackled instead of having a pick 6. The pick 6 was actually the best thing that could have happened on this play other wise the Saints could have taken at least 2 minutes of the clock or forced Indy to use there time outs and that is if the Saint's did not get a first down.

[ThaJim2]

Offensive Passer rating
Passing YPA
Defensive YPA
Defensive Passer rating
YPA differential
Pass Rating Differential
Scoreability (amount of yards it takes a team to score a point)
Margin of Victory
Forcing negative passing plays
Better 3rd down defense
Turnovers
Producing turnovers
TD/TO ratio
some of these are quality and relevant stats, some arent. but thanks. explain scoreability. ive never even heard of that before.

If you want to say some of these stats are redundant fine but each and every one of these stats is relevant as they all have high correlations to winning (.5 or above).

Scorablity is exactly what I said it was. Its the number of yards to score a point.

yes redundant. td/to ratio just seems to be a package of what we already know

so....score ability is the avg number of yards a team drives when scoring?

Scoreability is the total number of yards a team has in the case of the Saints 6461 and Colts 5809 divided by the number of points the team scored, the Saints 510 Colts 416. The Saints needed only 12.6 yards per point scored while the Colts needed 14 yards per point scored.

[an-also]

Riddle me this...
If people are all on Peyton's jock claiming that he has to do so much. He calls his own plays etc etc etc . Everyone's Giving him all high praises for all that, shoudnt we be critical on him when in the 4th quarter of the superbowl, he calls the same play twice in the span of 4 plays and Porter basically knew what and where the throw was going and gets a pick 6.

[ThaJim2]

lets say that it was. no choke. superbowl win. were discussing choking as it relates to the outcome of the superbowl, remember?

English please.

Finally I think I understand what ric is trying to say but of course he is still wrong. What he trying to do is shift the conversation from the question that you and ER and others are actually talking about which is Manning chocking in the playoffs to a different frame of taking just this one game and throwing out every other previous playoff game that Manning has played in and making the question how is that one specific play a choke.

He is wrong of course. Yes if this was Phillip Rivers that played the same exact game that Manning did on Sunday there would not be nearly the same questions of wither this was a choke job or not because Rivers does not have a history of playing badly in big games and in big moments in playoff games. Manning does though so it is a fair question to ask if he choked on Sunday. Despite not really caring for Manning and I do believe he has a history of chocking I don't really think the INT was the point he choked. I believe he chocked on the previous series and at the end of the first half when they ran the ball instead of throwing the ball and taking a chance. It was not a choke in execution but in strategy where either though under estimating the Saints or being scared to choke with the ball in his hand he basically gave up. And yes he gets the blame since he gets the glory for calling his own plays.

[an-also]

Eternal's facebook account revealed ?

[eternalreflection]

crazily enough my first name is Josh, but no that's not me

[an-also]

crazily enough my first name is Josh, but no that's not me

[eternalreflection]

Riddle me this...
If people are all on Peyton's jock claiming that he has to do so much. He calls his own plays etc etc etc . Everyone's Giving him all high praises for all that, shoudnt we be critical on him when in the 4th quarter of the superbowl, he calls the same play twice in the span of 4 plays and Porter basically knew what and where the throw was going and gets a pick 6.

I am being quite critical of the INT, its just some people naturalborn especially are going way too far with it, before the pick he was having a very strong game, INTs happen even to the best, down 7 needing a TD and to not leave time on the clock isn't an easy proposition and will require you to take bigger risks than if the game is tied and that 42yd fg attempt could be enough

[capable_keL]

i am the biggest nfl fan in the room

but the last 4 pages of this thread have been sheer brutality to read

[ric]

Scoreability is the total number of yards a team has in the case of the Saints 6461 and Colts 5809 divided by the number of points the team scored, the Saints 510 Colts 416. The Saints needed only 12.6 yards per point scored while the Colts needed 14 yards per point scored.

hm. ok thanks