if so i'll write up some details:
i'll create a 'fantasy' league in which you create a team and do a draft based on my own parameters. you;ll be drafting in assumption that the nba will have at least a short season to provide the numbers to make this league work. there will be prizes, 1st/2nd/3rd, and there will be NO buy-in fee of any kind. all that i would ask, LITERALLY ALL I WOULD ASK, is that the draft process go smoothly by everyone willingly and in a timely manner collaborating to get it done.
fuck it here is what it would look like. if this poll gets trolled or there are 20 no's to 5 yes', we'll pretend this thread never happened
THIS IS THE NBA. GET YOUR FANTASY FIX.
Last year I did an Over/Under NBA thread contest open to everyone. This year I decided to recreate the league because the league done failed us.
Because I came up with this thread, I am the commish (and also therefore not an owner with any vested interest in any team).
Here is the concept:
Anyone who wants in just say so and you become an owner. First dibs means you get to claim a city or a name.
Post your team name ALONG WITH YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS (or pm me it). After we have a decent number of willing participants, I will do a random lottery for draft position.
First, to keep you guys interested, here are the prizes/incentives, and remember entry is free but YOU MUST NOT DICK AROUND WHEN IT COMES TO BEING ON TIME WITH PICKING PLAYERS (i'll post the criteria in a second)
1st place. an authentic nba jersey of your choice OR $50 paypal, winner's choice
2nd place. $25 paypal (2nd place finisher can choose 3rd place gift if they'd prefer it)
3rd place. a bobblehead of your favorite player (based on availability). i'll cover shipping/payment obviously.
there isn't much incentive if you want to be honest but i made this because i love the nba and i will miss fantasy nba and we all like to play imaginary general manager anyway, so i hope like-minded individuals will make this work.
if i don't have a decent number of people who care to do this, i just wasted a few hundred words, no big deal
criteria/rules:
1. after there are enough teams, i dunno what a good quota is, i will set up a lottery for draft pick positioning
2. after figuring out how many teams total are in, i will let every GM know exactly how many picks they have, and in what position. it will be a SNAKE draft.
3. here's how you win: the team that has the best combined averaged win shares per 48 minutes and win shares total by the end of this season as measured by basketball-reference.com
http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html
get familiar with how win shares work. to give you an idea of the significance of the stat, check out last year's top five in total and per 48:
1. LeBron James-MIA 15.6
2. Pau Gasol-LAL 14.7
3. Dwight Howard-ORL 14.4
4. Chris Paul-NOH 13.9
5. Derrick Rose-CHI 13.1
1. LeBron James-MIA 0.244
2. Dwight Howard-ORL 0.236
3. Pau Gasol-LAL 0.232
4. Chris Paul-NOH 0.232
5. Tyson Chandler-DAL 0.218
4. here's how we draft: everyone gets one week to submit a top 50 list (this could increase or decrease depending on participation/lack thereof) of players they want in order. everyone gets FIVE TOTAL PICKS/PLAYERS. i will determine by draft position who gets which players. this draft IS NOT RELIANT ON POSITION BALANCE. it's all about win shares and win shares per 48. you can have 5 centers if you want to draft like that for whatever reason. if a week passes and some of yall haven't sent in a list yet, we can extend it a week. all of this is reliant on the nba coming back for a little this season.
5. any parameters/decisions as they come along i'll finalize
anyone have any interest in doing this?
Moderator: Gregg Popabitch
anyone have any interest in doing this?
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Philaflava
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^^
yep pretty much. i figure it won't cost you anything but some free time. it's really about the drafting if anything. i'm thinking of a way to make transactions available after the draft. like you get only 5 players to start but then there will be a waiver process from the pool of undrafted cats. all doable until the season starts
yep pretty much. i figure it won't cost you anything but some free time. it's really about the drafting if anything. i'm thinking of a way to make transactions available after the draft. like you get only 5 players to start but then there will be a waiver process from the pool of undrafted cats. all doable until the season starts
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capable_keL
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capable_keL
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this guy is one of my fav writers, he wrote the tora on win/shares
[quote]
NBA Win Shares
2002 Stats Career Wins (1951-52 to 2001-02)
1995-2002 Year by Year wins
The career totals may be off if I missed a season for somebody. If I did, the career games will be wrong.
Why?
To create a system that can compare basketball players across eras. I don't attempt to determine if professional basketball was better in the 60's, the 80's or now. I don't think that can be done conclusively. If Shooting percentages are up, does that mean shooters are better? Or are defenders worse? I don't know, for this exercise a win is a win, no matter what competition a player is facing, I'm trying to measure how many of his team's wins he's responsible for.
How?
Here is the basic formula: (Points ג (missed FG) ג (missed FT)/2 + Reb + Ast + St + Blocks/2 ג turnovers)
This is a modified Tendex rating, invented by Dave Heeren (I think) and copied or modified by just about everyone. For most of the recent history of the NBA, teams have averaged about 1 point per ball possession. For earlier years (50גs, 60גs) this was not the case, and the ball possession stats (rebounds, missed shots) are lowered accordingly, while assists are weighted higher. Free throw misses are weighted half of a field goal miss, which should be obvious. Player A takes a jumper and misses, player B bricks 2 free throws. In both cases the result is the same, their team doesnגt score, and the other team gets the ball.
Blocks are given half credit because you donגt always get possession of the ball. Many will argue that the block has intimidation value, but if this is the case, it will show up in that your opponents will miss more shots. That way, Mutombo gets his credit, and Shawn Bradley (who blocks shots but Iגve never really seen him stop anybody) doesnגt.
Forcing your opponents to miss and keeping them from scoring are important to the win share system, and will be explained soon.
I suppose I should have a name for the above formula, and I tried to find something unique to call it. Being originally a baseball fan and a Bill James reader, I thought about points created, but I think somebody has already done that. To keep things simple, I'm calling it Bob. Bob's a good name. Easy to type, won't change if you spell it backwards.
BOB = (Points ג (missed FG) ג (missed FT)/2 + Reb + Ast + St + Blocks/2 ג turnovers)
BOB is calculated for a team, and is also calculated for the league. This is necessary step to determine each teamגs גmarginal pointsג. Subtract (League (Bob/min) * 60% * team minutes) from Team BOB, and you get each teamגs marginal points. The 60% figure is an estimate for the גzero levelג, a team that has a rate at 60 % of the league average would not be expected to win even one game over an 82 game schedule. Of course, a team that does nothing, puts up a rate of 0 % of league average will also win zero games. A team at 60% would be expected to win just under 0.5 games out of 82, or 1 every 2 years as 0.5 isnגt quite possible.
Once you have marginal points, divide this number by team wins. Marginal points per win are needed for each team to determine a player's win shares. For most teams this number will be between 70 and 120, although it will be very high (200 or more) for extremely bad teams, some teams that win fewer than 20 games. In most cases, the variation is more a product of a teamגs game pace and defensive performance than a high win level. For example, in 1997 this number was 71 for the Bulls (69 wins) and 66 for the walk it up Cavaliers (42 wins). This tells me a good player will have as many win shares on a great team as he will on an average team. He may not have as many on a horrible team, but in the NBA, one player can have a huge impact, so if the team is horrible, they donגt have a great player. Shaq could join any team in the game right now and make them an instant playoff team. Jordan at age 39 made the Wizards respectable.
The teams with the lowest marginal points per win are not the 72 Lakers, 86 Celtics, 67 Sixers, or 96 Bulls. Instead, the teams with the lowest MP/W are the teams with the nastiest defenses, like the Hawks, Knicks, and Heat or the late 90's / early 2000's. These teams have numbers in the 50-59 range. Other teams: 72 Lakers: 86, 86 Celtics: 77, 67 Sixers: 92, 96 Bulls: 66. This means that a player for a team like the 1997 Miami Heat (56) does not need to put up huge numbers to have a good win share total, as he is doing more than enough to stop his opponents from putting up big numbers. Teams that play slowdown defense, like the Cavaliers of a few years back, also have low MP/W.
For teams, one more number is needed, defensive rebounds per minute.
For players, calculate their formula points as for teams, with the following modifications:
Instead of rebounds, add Offensive rebounds + Defensive rebounds *.5 + Estimated defensive stops *.5. A player's defensive stops are estimated by multiplying his minutes by the team's defensive rebounds per minute. A defensive rebound occurs when you make your opponent miss and get the ball back. This formula gives credit to the rebounder, but also to the defenders who are necessary to cause a miss. We have the number at a team level, but not for individuals, so we credit the individuals on a team for defensive stops equally, based on minutes played. ( Minutes * Team DR/Min).
Stopping the other team from scoring consists of A) stealing the ball, B) Blocking the shot, C) drawing an offensive foul D) guarding your opponent, forcing a bad shot, and getting the rebound. For D), I am trying to give credit to all players involved in the defense, not just the player who gets the rebound. This still doesn't credit great defenders who do more than their teammates but don't steal or block shots. Offensive fouls drawn are not available, so I can't use those either.
The whole effect of calculating defensive stops, using steal and blocks, and team dependent marginal points per win rewards players who, by their own effort and by their team's effectiveness, stop their opponents from scoring.
Now that BOB is calculated for each player, figure marginal points by subtracting (Minutes * League rate * 60%). Divide player marginal points by team marginal points per win, and you get win shares.
Until 1974, steals, blocks, turnovers, and def/off rebound breakdowns were not calculated, so they are dropped from the formula. This doesnגt change the number of win shares, as that by definition equals the number of team wins, but it could change the distribution. For most players, the difference is minimal, since win shares are rounded to the nearest whole number. For all players, points, rebounds, and assists are the numbers that do most to determine win shares. Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain are probably hurt most. They dominated defensively in their time, and faced many more shots than todayגs teams faced, due to the high pace of the games. Did Wilt block 500 shots a year? 700? 1000? Weגll never know, but my guess is that not knowing may have cost him 2-3 win shares per year.
Players who play great defense in some cases will be underrated. The defensive stop estimation assumes all defenders are equal for a team. Joe Dumars, a great defender on a great defensive team, will get his credit. A defensive specialist on a bad team may not, if he doesn't get a good amount of steals and/or blocks. Bruce Bowen is an interesting case. He doesn't get many win shares (some years he has zero). He doesn't score, rebound or pass. He doesn't get a lot of blocks or steals the way Bo Outlaw does. What he does do is stop the player he's defending. I have seen studies based on box scores showing him as a top defender because he holds his opponents well below their season averages. I haven't included anything like this in win shares for two reasons. First, I'm not sure what this tells us. Is Bowen stopping his opponent or is the other small forward not able to drive to the basket because Robinson and Duncan waiting for them? We can't tell from a box score who he was actually guarding and how many points they score with Bowen, and how many with other players in the lineup. Second, it takes an incredibly long time to figure. There's no way I could do it for every player. If I put full faith in the estimates made of his defense, Bowen may take a point off his opponent every 10 minutes. Playing 1700 minutes like last year, that would add 2-3 win shares.
Sometimes players putting up the same numbers on bad teams will have fewer win shares than players on good teams, but that may be a case that the players are not equal, only the numbers are. Case in point, Ron Harper scored 20 ppg his last year with the Clippers. He got 4 win shares. With the Bulls next year he had only half as much playing time, and his scoring dropped to 6.9. He got 2 win shares, the next year he was up to 4. He was creating wins at the same rate (he is, after all, the same player), its just that the Bulls had better options than the Clippers, so his raw numbers looked worse. Some players put up impressive numbers because they are on a bad team which has no other options, win shares will not overrate them the way a tendex type system might.
It is possible to have a negative win share total, this would mean you are so bad that you negate positive wins that teammates contribute. I was happy to see that with the marginal level set where it is, very few players are in the negatives. Players like this usually donגt get a chance to play very much before they are cut, or see a lot of DNP-CD next to their name in the box score. There are a few every year, but they donגt play much and their win shares usually round to 0. The last player to post a full ג1 win share was Gerald Wilkins in 1997-98, who shot 33%, did nothing else to contribute, and played 1200 minutes. No player that Iגve found has ever had ג2 win shares.
Point Values
Why is it that just about every event is rated at one? Rebounds, assists, steals, turnovers, missed field goals. It's a convenient number, but how do I know it shouldn't be .97 or 1.12 or something?
The 1.0 is an estimate. For most of the recent history of the NBA, the value of a ball possession has been around one, teams average one point for each possession. Using a figure of .97 or another specific number depending on the season, if it was more accurate, will not change overall ratings much at all. I have only changed this number at certain breakpoints in history where the normal possession value has changed radically. For the 1950's I use .80, for the 60's .90, and 1.0 for every year since then. While shooting percentages have declined in recent years, points per possession has changed only a little, as teams shoot more three pointers than ever before.
The value of a rebound, steal, turnover, and missed field goals will always be equal to each other. I've seen other systems that weight each event differently, but I don't get it. As an example, player A makes a bad pass and turns the ball over. Player B takes a shot and misses, the other team getting the board. Either way, you had a ball possession, you failed to score, and the other guy now has the ball. You could argue that the team that got the steal has a better chance of scoring now than the team that got the rebound, but so what? If they score, those 2 points go in their plus column. No need to give artificial credit based on how they got the ball. I've seen some systems that give extra credit to offensive rebounds, more than the negative value for missed shots. Moses Malone would love this. His offensive strategy, when he was in trouble, was to throw the ball up on the glass with the sole intent of getting his own rebound. At least that's what it seemed like. Under a flawed system like this, Moses would get credits added every time he did this, even if he didn't score.
Assists can differ from the other events, they are figured by (2- value of possession).
Player Rating
(BOB/minutes)
Adjusted player rating = Player Rating * (100/Opponents PPG)
I use this as an intermediate step towards win shares, but it can be useful by itself as well. The 100 is used to put teams on an equal level for comparison. Opponents PPG is used where other systems have used a game pace estimate. In my opinion, Opponents PPG is the only thing that matters. If your opponent scores 100, why should your rating be treated any differently if they do it on 120 ball possessions or 90? Either way you need to score 101.
Greatest Season
This one surprised me, but it was Shaq in his MVP year (99-00), with 27. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar had 26 in 1971-72, in leading the Bucks to 63 wins. Wilt Chamberlain has the next 4 best at 24 (62,64,66,67). 7 Players had 23, with Michael Jordan doing it 3 times.
If Blocks, steals, and turnovers were not counted for Shaq, he would still get 27 win shares. I canגt say the same about Wilt, however. He may have blocked enough shots that he would have equaled or surpassed Shaqגs 27. Or maybe not, but its something to keep in mind.
Bill Russellגs best years were at 16, in 1964 and 1965. If I had the resources for playoff win shares, heגd be closer to the top. Unfortunately, I don't have enough data now for playoff win shares. I'd like to at some point. In baseball we can almost ignore Barry Bonds playoff record because the sample size is so small. In basketball, the playoffs can last up to 25% of the regular season length. The games are much more important, so playoff performance should be kept in mind when considering the greatest players of all time.
Sources:
Stats: Doug's NBA stats page http://home.rmi.net/~doug/ He has a great site for NBA or MLB stats.
The Sporting News Official NBA Guide
Yes my fingers are tired after putting all those numbers in a spreadsheet.
Inspiration for the project: Bill James and his Win Shares book for baseball
Copyright
[quote]
NBA Win Shares
2002 Stats Career Wins (1951-52 to 2001-02)
1995-2002 Year by Year wins
The career totals may be off if I missed a season for somebody. If I did, the career games will be wrong.
Why?
To create a system that can compare basketball players across eras. I don't attempt to determine if professional basketball was better in the 60's, the 80's or now. I don't think that can be done conclusively. If Shooting percentages are up, does that mean shooters are better? Or are defenders worse? I don't know, for this exercise a win is a win, no matter what competition a player is facing, I'm trying to measure how many of his team's wins he's responsible for.
How?
Here is the basic formula: (Points ג (missed FG) ג (missed FT)/2 + Reb + Ast + St + Blocks/2 ג turnovers)
This is a modified Tendex rating, invented by Dave Heeren (I think) and copied or modified by just about everyone. For most of the recent history of the NBA, teams have averaged about 1 point per ball possession. For earlier years (50גs, 60גs) this was not the case, and the ball possession stats (rebounds, missed shots) are lowered accordingly, while assists are weighted higher. Free throw misses are weighted half of a field goal miss, which should be obvious. Player A takes a jumper and misses, player B bricks 2 free throws. In both cases the result is the same, their team doesnגt score, and the other team gets the ball.
Blocks are given half credit because you donגt always get possession of the ball. Many will argue that the block has intimidation value, but if this is the case, it will show up in that your opponents will miss more shots. That way, Mutombo gets his credit, and Shawn Bradley (who blocks shots but Iגve never really seen him stop anybody) doesnגt.
Forcing your opponents to miss and keeping them from scoring are important to the win share system, and will be explained soon.
I suppose I should have a name for the above formula, and I tried to find something unique to call it. Being originally a baseball fan and a Bill James reader, I thought about points created, but I think somebody has already done that. To keep things simple, I'm calling it Bob. Bob's a good name. Easy to type, won't change if you spell it backwards.
BOB = (Points ג (missed FG) ג (missed FT)/2 + Reb + Ast + St + Blocks/2 ג turnovers)
BOB is calculated for a team, and is also calculated for the league. This is necessary step to determine each teamגs גmarginal pointsג. Subtract (League (Bob/min) * 60% * team minutes) from Team BOB, and you get each teamגs marginal points. The 60% figure is an estimate for the גzero levelג, a team that has a rate at 60 % of the league average would not be expected to win even one game over an 82 game schedule. Of course, a team that does nothing, puts up a rate of 0 % of league average will also win zero games. A team at 60% would be expected to win just under 0.5 games out of 82, or 1 every 2 years as 0.5 isnגt quite possible.
Once you have marginal points, divide this number by team wins. Marginal points per win are needed for each team to determine a player's win shares. For most teams this number will be between 70 and 120, although it will be very high (200 or more) for extremely bad teams, some teams that win fewer than 20 games. In most cases, the variation is more a product of a teamגs game pace and defensive performance than a high win level. For example, in 1997 this number was 71 for the Bulls (69 wins) and 66 for the walk it up Cavaliers (42 wins). This tells me a good player will have as many win shares on a great team as he will on an average team. He may not have as many on a horrible team, but in the NBA, one player can have a huge impact, so if the team is horrible, they donגt have a great player. Shaq could join any team in the game right now and make them an instant playoff team. Jordan at age 39 made the Wizards respectable.
The teams with the lowest marginal points per win are not the 72 Lakers, 86 Celtics, 67 Sixers, or 96 Bulls. Instead, the teams with the lowest MP/W are the teams with the nastiest defenses, like the Hawks, Knicks, and Heat or the late 90's / early 2000's. These teams have numbers in the 50-59 range. Other teams: 72 Lakers: 86, 86 Celtics: 77, 67 Sixers: 92, 96 Bulls: 66. This means that a player for a team like the 1997 Miami Heat (56) does not need to put up huge numbers to have a good win share total, as he is doing more than enough to stop his opponents from putting up big numbers. Teams that play slowdown defense, like the Cavaliers of a few years back, also have low MP/W.
For teams, one more number is needed, defensive rebounds per minute.
For players, calculate their formula points as for teams, with the following modifications:
Instead of rebounds, add Offensive rebounds + Defensive rebounds *.5 + Estimated defensive stops *.5. A player's defensive stops are estimated by multiplying his minutes by the team's defensive rebounds per minute. A defensive rebound occurs when you make your opponent miss and get the ball back. This formula gives credit to the rebounder, but also to the defenders who are necessary to cause a miss. We have the number at a team level, but not for individuals, so we credit the individuals on a team for defensive stops equally, based on minutes played. ( Minutes * Team DR/Min).
Stopping the other team from scoring consists of A) stealing the ball, B) Blocking the shot, C) drawing an offensive foul D) guarding your opponent, forcing a bad shot, and getting the rebound. For D), I am trying to give credit to all players involved in the defense, not just the player who gets the rebound. This still doesn't credit great defenders who do more than their teammates but don't steal or block shots. Offensive fouls drawn are not available, so I can't use those either.
The whole effect of calculating defensive stops, using steal and blocks, and team dependent marginal points per win rewards players who, by their own effort and by their team's effectiveness, stop their opponents from scoring.
Now that BOB is calculated for each player, figure marginal points by subtracting (Minutes * League rate * 60%). Divide player marginal points by team marginal points per win, and you get win shares.
Until 1974, steals, blocks, turnovers, and def/off rebound breakdowns were not calculated, so they are dropped from the formula. This doesnגt change the number of win shares, as that by definition equals the number of team wins, but it could change the distribution. For most players, the difference is minimal, since win shares are rounded to the nearest whole number. For all players, points, rebounds, and assists are the numbers that do most to determine win shares. Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain are probably hurt most. They dominated defensively in their time, and faced many more shots than todayגs teams faced, due to the high pace of the games. Did Wilt block 500 shots a year? 700? 1000? Weגll never know, but my guess is that not knowing may have cost him 2-3 win shares per year.
Players who play great defense in some cases will be underrated. The defensive stop estimation assumes all defenders are equal for a team. Joe Dumars, a great defender on a great defensive team, will get his credit. A defensive specialist on a bad team may not, if he doesn't get a good amount of steals and/or blocks. Bruce Bowen is an interesting case. He doesn't get many win shares (some years he has zero). He doesn't score, rebound or pass. He doesn't get a lot of blocks or steals the way Bo Outlaw does. What he does do is stop the player he's defending. I have seen studies based on box scores showing him as a top defender because he holds his opponents well below their season averages. I haven't included anything like this in win shares for two reasons. First, I'm not sure what this tells us. Is Bowen stopping his opponent or is the other small forward not able to drive to the basket because Robinson and Duncan waiting for them? We can't tell from a box score who he was actually guarding and how many points they score with Bowen, and how many with other players in the lineup. Second, it takes an incredibly long time to figure. There's no way I could do it for every player. If I put full faith in the estimates made of his defense, Bowen may take a point off his opponent every 10 minutes. Playing 1700 minutes like last year, that would add 2-3 win shares.
Sometimes players putting up the same numbers on bad teams will have fewer win shares than players on good teams, but that may be a case that the players are not equal, only the numbers are. Case in point, Ron Harper scored 20 ppg his last year with the Clippers. He got 4 win shares. With the Bulls next year he had only half as much playing time, and his scoring dropped to 6.9. He got 2 win shares, the next year he was up to 4. He was creating wins at the same rate (he is, after all, the same player), its just that the Bulls had better options than the Clippers, so his raw numbers looked worse. Some players put up impressive numbers because they are on a bad team which has no other options, win shares will not overrate them the way a tendex type system might.
It is possible to have a negative win share total, this would mean you are so bad that you negate positive wins that teammates contribute. I was happy to see that with the marginal level set where it is, very few players are in the negatives. Players like this usually donגt get a chance to play very much before they are cut, or see a lot of DNP-CD next to their name in the box score. There are a few every year, but they donגt play much and their win shares usually round to 0. The last player to post a full ג1 win share was Gerald Wilkins in 1997-98, who shot 33%, did nothing else to contribute, and played 1200 minutes. No player that Iגve found has ever had ג2 win shares.
Point Values
Why is it that just about every event is rated at one? Rebounds, assists, steals, turnovers, missed field goals. It's a convenient number, but how do I know it shouldn't be .97 or 1.12 or something?
The 1.0 is an estimate. For most of the recent history of the NBA, the value of a ball possession has been around one, teams average one point for each possession. Using a figure of .97 or another specific number depending on the season, if it was more accurate, will not change overall ratings much at all. I have only changed this number at certain breakpoints in history where the normal possession value has changed radically. For the 1950's I use .80, for the 60's .90, and 1.0 for every year since then. While shooting percentages have declined in recent years, points per possession has changed only a little, as teams shoot more three pointers than ever before.
The value of a rebound, steal, turnover, and missed field goals will always be equal to each other. I've seen other systems that weight each event differently, but I don't get it. As an example, player A makes a bad pass and turns the ball over. Player B takes a shot and misses, the other team getting the board. Either way, you had a ball possession, you failed to score, and the other guy now has the ball. You could argue that the team that got the steal has a better chance of scoring now than the team that got the rebound, but so what? If they score, those 2 points go in their plus column. No need to give artificial credit based on how they got the ball. I've seen some systems that give extra credit to offensive rebounds, more than the negative value for missed shots. Moses Malone would love this. His offensive strategy, when he was in trouble, was to throw the ball up on the glass with the sole intent of getting his own rebound. At least that's what it seemed like. Under a flawed system like this, Moses would get credits added every time he did this, even if he didn't score.
Assists can differ from the other events, they are figured by (2- value of possession).
Player Rating
(BOB/minutes)
Adjusted player rating = Player Rating * (100/Opponents PPG)
I use this as an intermediate step towards win shares, but it can be useful by itself as well. The 100 is used to put teams on an equal level for comparison. Opponents PPG is used where other systems have used a game pace estimate. In my opinion, Opponents PPG is the only thing that matters. If your opponent scores 100, why should your rating be treated any differently if they do it on 120 ball possessions or 90? Either way you need to score 101.
Greatest Season
This one surprised me, but it was Shaq in his MVP year (99-00), with 27. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar had 26 in 1971-72, in leading the Bucks to 63 wins. Wilt Chamberlain has the next 4 best at 24 (62,64,66,67). 7 Players had 23, with Michael Jordan doing it 3 times.
If Blocks, steals, and turnovers were not counted for Shaq, he would still get 27 win shares. I canגt say the same about Wilt, however. He may have blocked enough shots that he would have equaled or surpassed Shaqגs 27. Or maybe not, but its something to keep in mind.
Bill Russellגs best years were at 16, in 1964 and 1965. If I had the resources for playoff win shares, heגd be closer to the top. Unfortunately, I don't have enough data now for playoff win shares. I'd like to at some point. In baseball we can almost ignore Barry Bonds playoff record because the sample size is so small. In basketball, the playoffs can last up to 25% of the regular season length. The games are much more important, so playoff performance should be kept in mind when considering the greatest players of all time.
Sources:
Stats: Doug's NBA stats page http://home.rmi.net/~doug/ He has a great site for NBA or MLB stats.
The Sporting News Official NBA Guide
Yes my fingers are tired after putting all those numbers in a spreadsheet.
Inspiration for the project: Bill James and his Win Shares book for baseball
Copyright
Last edited by capable_keL on Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Hey, by the way who's Curt?
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capable_keL
- phila HR Champ
- Posts: 21623
- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:58 pm
- Contact:
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capable_keL
- phila HR Champ
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diligence
so far i got
1. philaflava (no team name selected)
2. alpha? not sure if he was just giving props to my doing this or if he wanted in? (no team name selected)
3. capable_kel, team name: LYNX
4. hustler, team name: NASHED POTATOES AND MCGRADY
if i can't get ppl here interested than i can reach out to friends and see if they'd be down to make this happen with enough people. or like i said i just wasted some time like i always do, no biggie
1. philaflava (no team name selected)
2. alpha? not sure if he was just giving props to my doing this or if he wanted in? (no team name selected)
3. capable_kel, team name: LYNX
4. hustler, team name: NASHED POTATOES AND MCGRADY
if i can't get ppl here interested than i can reach out to friends and see if they'd be down to make this happen with enough people. or like i said i just wasted some time like i always do, no biggie
Nets 2022
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Philaflava
- King of The DPB'rs
- Posts: 81367
- Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2003 12:37 am
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