Who is the better receiver?

[Reason]

You have the #1 pick in the draft. Calvin Johnson of Georgia Tech and Randy Moss of Marshall are on the board (and in this hypothetical they are the two best players in the draft by a longshot so there's no debate for a 3rd player :-p).

Whom do you pick? You can start your team with one of these two wide receivers but obviously with the knowledge of what Moss' career was and what Johnson's career has been (he's played enough years where we can legitimately do this poll now)

Calvin

6'5
236
4.35 40

Calvin's 5 best seasons
77 rec 1,120 yd 14.5 avg 12 td
78 rec 1,331 yd 17.1 avg 12 td
84 rec 1,492 yd 17.8 avg 12 td
96 rec 1,681 yd 17.5 avg 16 td
122 rec 1,964 yd 16.1 avg 5 td

Randy
6'4
210
4.25 40 (reportedly ran into the wind for that 40)

Randy's 5 best seasons (obviously subjective, he has plenty of nice seasons to choose from)
69 rec 1,313 yd 19.0 avg 17 td
80 rec 1,413 yd 17.7 avg 11 td
77 rec 1,437 yd 18.7 avg 15 td
111 rec 1,632 yd 14.7 avg 17 td
98 rec 1,493 yd 15.2 avg 23 td

[Hayzoos]

How do you have 122 receptions and only 5 of them are touchdowns?

[capable_keL]

there are a few things to keep in mind when you look at those numbers:
moss played with HOF WR Cris Carter in most of those seasons
moss was always a part of record setting offenses in MN & NE
Calvin played on some horrible teams where he was the only guy

moss was the most feared weapon in the nfl for years. his deep threat changed games he played in. Calvin doesn't have the same affect

[VideoKilledThe]

Randy Moss all day, easy choice.

[alpha]

Yeah it's moss, whether you're taking them at the same age, or as rookies.

[naturalborn103]

How do you have 122 receptions and only 5 of them are touchdowns?

He got tackled at the 1 so many times it was ridiculous.

[an-also]

Cj also plays in an era where the rules are heavily skewed towards the offense.

Moss would be my pick.

[Ramen]

Well at first you asked who's the better receiver, so that's Moss. But then you were like who would you start your team with, that's Calvin.

[Gregg Popabitch]

Moss.

He was really unfair. If he played in this offensive era in his prime, defensive coordinators would have no idea what to do with him. He'd make Mat Schaub look like Matt Ryan. Rashad Mendenhall would run for 1200 yards with opposing defenses worried about Randy.

[Reason]

i dunno as raw athletes i think they're pretty much a wash, and as kel said calvin has never had the kind of quarterbacks or 2nd wr that moss had, not by a long shot

i mean jim schwartz yo

[ric]

Straight cash homie
Tron is a worthy adversary though. Dude routinely catches passes in 2/3/4 coverage

[ThaJim2]

Come on now. There is a reason Moss was on so many record setting offenses. Dude demanded attention like no other Receiver since like Hutson in the 40s. You cant put a Deion or Sherman on him and just take him out of the game you need to put these great CB with safety help or he would catch 8 passes for 160 yards and 2 TDs. He opened the game for everyone else on the team. Sure he sucked on Oakland but Oakland had basically replacement level players everywhere else so what the fuck do you expect of anyone. Give him good to great teammates and he opens so much up its not even funny.

[Gregg Popabitch]

Moss is a dude who revived the careers of Randall Cunningham and Jeff George. Both guys were thought to be dead before playing in a Randy Moss offense. If it wasn't for Moss, Daunte Culpepper would have been the black Jared Lorenzen (I've been wanting to make a J-Load reference for awhile).

Before Moss, Tom Brady never reached the 30 TD plateau. The year Moss joined the Pats, he threw 50. Has anyone heard anything about Matt Cassell since he played with Randy Moss? I'm pretty sure only Kel has.

Maybe Calvin is making Stafford look better than he is. However, Stafford had enough tools to be a #1 overall pick when he was drafted. So let's not front like he's washed up or a no talent hack. He's not exactly Brady either though.

[Philaflava]

1. Rice
2. Moss




CJ

[capable_keL]

However, Stafford had enough tools to be a #1 overall pick when he was drafted.

great point except that the Lions made that pick. The Lions who are notorious for drafting such WR Charles Rogers, Roy WIlliams, and other epic busts.

Stafford had to overcome being drafted by the Lions, so having the security blanket of megatron seems fair

[Gregg Popabitch]

However, Stafford had enough tools to be a #1 overall pick when he was drafted.

great point except that the Lions made that pick. The Lions who are notorious for drafting such WR Charles Rogers, Roy WIlliams, and other epic busts.

Stafford had to overcome being drafted by the Lions, so having the security blanket of megatron seems fair

I didn't realize we were using the Minnesota Timberwolves corollary.

[Reason]

1. Rice
2. Moss




CJ

i wiouldn't even deign to put rice in such a debate, he's clear #1 forever unless megatron catches 700 more passes for 10,000 more yards

[Gregg Popabitch]

I feel like Megatron's career numbers will eventually surpass Moss' numbers. However, my answer remains the same. Randy Moss in his prime was an entirely too frightening.

[Reason]

i think megatron is as equally as frightening

[capable_keL]

However, Stafford had enough tools to be a #1 overall pick when he was drafted.

great point except that the Lions made that pick. The Lions who are notorious for drafting such WR Charles Rogers, Roy WIlliams, and other epic busts.

Stafford had to overcome being drafted by the Lions, so having the security blanket of megatron seems fair

I didn't realize we were using the Minnesota Timberwolves corollary.

[jazzmatazz23]

Good poll. Moss is my favorite NFL player of all time, but this is a toss up. I voted for moss, but changing my mind to think I would take Calvin.

[T Rav]

Your mom.

[ric]

I chose moss because there will probably never be another moss whereas wrs all over are conditioning themselves into little trons and shit and some kid somewhere is going to be the next monster wr

[Cash Rulz]

Moss for all the reasons everyone who picked Moss said.

[ThaJim2]

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ran ... -all-time/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you’re keeping score at home, that’s somewhere between (inarguably) five and (arguably) seven quarterbacks who have all had career years with Moss on the field with them. And indeed, the “Moss effect” is backed up by numbers. Across a whole slew of different statistics, the QBs Moss has worked with have been better with him than without him. The eight QBs with whom Moss has played at least eight games have averaged 48 more yards per game, seen their completion and touchdown percentages rise by an average of 3.7 percentage points and 1.6 percentage points, respectively, ultimately averaging nearly a full yard per pass attempt more in the games with him than without him. One yard per attempt may not sound like much, but that’s about the difference between Peyton Manning (7.7 YPA) and Neil O’Donnell (6.7 YPA).

[hustler]

its moss and it isnt close. cmon now.

[naturalborn103]

I chose moss because there will probably never be another moss whereas wrs all over are conditioning themselves into little trons and shit and some kid somewhere is going to be the next monster wr

You can't just condition yourself to be Calvin Johnson. He is also a freak of nature. Not as crazy as moss, but still a freak.

[ric]

I chose moss because there will probably never be another moss whereas wrs all over are conditioning themselves into little trons and shit and some kid somewhere is going to be the next monster wr

You can't just condition yourself to be Calvin Johnson. He is also a freak of nature. Not as crazy as moss, but still a freak.

agreed. notice the term "little tron". but yeah tron is amazing and so forth but moss is like wicked fucking unparalleled type amazing physically and mentally from what i understand

[Gregg Popabitch]

One more thing, rules nowadays make it easier for WRs to roam free....especially in the middle of the field where safeties can't rip your head off anymore for trying to grab balls between the middle of the numbers and thus passing and receiving numbers look like video game numbers now. So comparing Calvin's numbers to Randy's is unfair.

If Moss played now during his prime, his numbers would be disgusting.

I also like how that fivethirtyeight article said everything I did in my second post in this thread but with numbers and more words.

Guys, you don't need numbers to tell you that Moss was better. You need eyes, knowledge of rule changes, and common sense. Usually, i'm pretty flexible in saying "oh, I can see how you'd think so and so was better" but this is practically non negotiable. Calvin is the closest thing we've had to Moss but that's exactly what he is.....the closest thing the NFL has seen to Moss.

[alpha]

Guys, you don't need numbers to tell you that Moss was better. You need eyes, knowledge of rule changes, and common sense. Usually, i'm pretty flexible in saying "oh, I can see how you'd think so and so was better" but this is practically non negotiable. Calvin is the closest thing we've had to Moss but that's exactly what he is.....the closest thing the NFL has seen to Moss.

This x 1,000,000. maybe it's an age gap between posters. but the game was played so differently, what 5-10 years ago. I can't remember when the rules were changed. But db's were able to straight up mug WRs back in Moss's prime.